Romney warns of theocracy danger

[paineinthearse]

Is the pot calling the kettle black?

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/10/11/romney_warns_of_theocracy_danger/

Romney warns of theocracy danger

In remarks in N.C., says US under attack
By Seth Effron and Raphael Lewis, Globe Staff | October 11, 2005

RALEIGH, N.C. -- Venturing into foreign policy, Governor Mitt Romney yesterday told a largely Republican audience that Islamic terrorists ''want to bring down our government" and ''want to put in place a huge theocracy." ''We're under attack, as you know, militarily," Romney told about 150 people gathered at an exclusive Raleigh country club. ''They're not just intent on blowing up a little bomb here and there at a shopping mall, awful as that would be. They want to bring down our government, bring down our entire economy. They want to put in place a huge theocracy." ''Thank heavens we have a president of the United States who recognizes this for what it is and has declared war on it, and thank heavens we have a military that consists of the strongest and bravest and most able men and women in the world," Romney said.

<snip>

Asked later by a Globe reporter about his remarks, Romney said he was referring to Islamic terrorists. ''Obviously, this is an extreme fundamentalist perspective," he responded. ''It's certainly not shared by the people of Islam generally, but is shared by some radical few." Then he was asked if he felt Islamic terrorists want to take over the United States. Romney said: ''No. No. No." ''I don't have any foreign intelligence that's any different than what you read in the various journals and so forth," the governor said. ''Among the various reports I've read -- and I think President Bush has described -- that there are some who wish to bring down the Western-leaning governments and put in a more fundamentalist, religious leadership. But that's not something I'm something I'm expert in."

Eric Fehrnstrom, Romney's communications director, said last night that the governor had made an assertion in earlier speeches that terrorists were seeking a broad based ''theocracy." Those remarks have not been widely reported, however. Fehrnstrom also pointed to an account earlier this month from the New York Times describing a letter obtained by the US forces in Iraq that was written by Ayman al-Zawahiri, the second-ranking leader of Al Qaeda. According to the Times, the letter outlined a four-stage battle plan, beginning with the American military's expulsion, followed by the creation of a militant Islamic caliphate in Iraq and then in Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt. The final step, the Times reported, quoted unnamed US officials, would be a battle against Israel.

Romney, who has yet to announce whether he will seek the 2008 GOP presidential nomination, drew criticism from some Muslims and civil liberties advocates last month when he raised the prospect of wiretapping mosques and conducting surveillance of foreign students. Yesterday's trip was billed as an effort by Romney to tout his budget expertise. His much discussed potential as a 2008 presidential candidate drew some of North Carolina's leading Republicans -- including former governor Jim Martin; US Representative Sue Myrick of Charlotte, and half-a-dozen Republican state legislators.

more.....

[TheFarseer]

1. Hope I get this posted before anyone else does!

If you are so worried about theocracy, then why are you actively supporting it in your own country?

[VegasWolf]

2. Exactly!!!!

:toast:

[tanyev]

4. Everyone knows that you have to fight theocracy with theocracy.

Edit to add :sarcasm:

[Fridays Child]

33. Have to laugh at this one!

I envision the forces of darkness battling armies of ignorance.

Meanwhile, last night, I was looking at Angry Girl's political cartoons, and this one caught my eye...

[ret5hd]

6. It's called projection. nt

[antonialee839]

12. I thought Romney was referring to this country.

[malaise]

13. So did I

until I read that rubbish.

[Brooklyn Michael]

16. No, no, no....see...

...replacing our current representative democracy and establishing a CHRISTIAN theocracy in this country....well that's just okey-dokey!

[MN ChimpH8R]

34. The sad thing is that Romney said this without

even the dimmest, most slug-like awareness of the irony. More Chimp-like projection of his own ideas onto others.

[rocktivity]

3. I'm a lot more worried about the CHRISTIAN terrorists

who want to bring down our government and place it with a large theocracy!

:headbang:
rocknation

[henslee]

5. Deleted -- too slow on the draw.

[raccoon]

7. I thought the same thing, that he was referring to the

Christian taliban.

[Dhalgren]

8. Are Republicans required to sound like idiots or do people who

sound like idiots simply become Republicans? Are the Republican politicians speaking in this manner because they recognize that their audience is filled with morons or are morons simply attracted to idiots who speak like this? This isn't an isolated instance, this is basic Republican fare...

[ninkasi]

38. They sound like idiots

because they ARE idiots. They attract other idiots. The only alternative requirement for being a conservative is greed.

[Realityhack]

46. Thats way to deep for me ;-)

Very interesting to poder though.

[Zynx]

9. He's afraid terrorists will take over our government?

What the hell? Do Republicans actually believe the goal of the terrorists is to topple our government and put in place an Islamic theocracy? If they do, that would explain why they are so insane.

As it is, the greatest probability of a theocracy being established in this country comes from the Sam Brownback's and Tom Coburn's of the world.

[paineinthearse]

11. Not to worry about a future terrorist coup.

The terrorists are already in charge.

[Overseas]

51. My sentiments exactly ! eom.

[Walt Starr]

10. I'm much more concerned about the theocracy espoused by Pat Robem$ome,

James Dobson, and Jerry Fartwell.

And these murderous thugs are actually more likely to instill their theocracy in this country than any Islamic Jihadist.

[The Stranger]

14. Someone order a mental inquest proceeding.

This person is simply not well.

[calmblueocean]

15. Run, Romney, Run!

Dear Mitt,

So glad to hear that you're thinking about running for president in 2008. Keep praising Bush! And when your closest advisors tell you that Bush's name is electoral poison, make sure you fire them. You can't afford advisors who can't see our President's grand vision. Remember, on the 2008 campaign trail, be sure to talk about the dangers of theocracy, how important it is to fight the narrowminded, warmongering religious imperialists. Your base will love it!

Looking forward to seeing you win the Republican nomination in 2008!

Sincerely,

Calmblueocean

[AX10]

43. I Look forward to Wes Clark's 20% crushing victory over the freak.

[MADem]

53. Well said

Mitt the shit is easily the dimmest governor in the history of the commonwealth.

[Red State Lib]

17. Judge Roy Moore

Romney must have panicked when he heard that extreme right wing kook Roy Moore had declared for Governor in Alabama 2006. Talk about a THEOCRACY! I'm still surprised Bushler didn't nominate Moore for the Supremes. Or our former Atty. Gen. now Fed Judge David (Richard) Pryor) Lots of wingnuts here in Bama. Can someone help me get out???

[EFerrari]

26. Welcome to DU, Red State Lib!

:hi:

[TheCowsCameHome]

32. Will Roy Moore be able to campaign while wearing a strait jacket?

Could be difficult to shake hands with voters.

[StopRoy]

45. Those concerned about Moore

Should pitch in. See my sig.

[gratuitous]

18. Effron and Lewis are to be congratulated

I can't detect a trace of giggle in their writing on this story, and it's just freakin' hilarious!

[FlaGranny]

19. I wish that reporter had asked ONE question, i.e.,

Explain - what is wrong with a theocracy?

I would be very interested in hearing Mr. Romney's ideas on that.

[paineinthearse]

20. What does DU know about "Foundation for NC Future" or Robert Pittenger?

The speech was given at a country club to the "Foundation for NC Future" What do we know about it or its founder, Robert Pittenger?

"The Raleigh luncheon was the first of two fund-raisers yesterday for the Foundation for NC Future -- a nonprofit advocacy group set up by a well-to-do Charlotte-area Republican state senator, Robert Pittenger...."

What do we know about the "Foundation for NC Future" or its founder, Robert Pittenger?

One thing I have found is his group's website links to his official NC legislature website - http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/members/viewMember.pl?sChamber=Senate&nUserID=91 Is this ethical?

http://www.ncfuture.org/

Mission Statement

In recent years North Carolina has experienced a loss of 185,000 manufacturing and textile jobs. The North Carolina legislature has responded to this crisis by raising taxes, raiding state trust funds, and keeping taxes high on North Carolina’s small businesses in order to dole out several hundred millions of dollars of “incentives” to select companies to “bribe” them into coming to North Carolina. Our individual tax rates which impact small business are the highest of any state in the southeast. While small business creates 70% of the new jobs in NC, they have received no tax relief.

The legislature has, in effect, acknowledged that North Carolina cannot compete with other states in the battle to lure companies that will provide good jobs for our future unless we give large financial inducements. We don’t believe that we should have to “bribe” large corporations to come to move to North Carolina. We believe North Carolina is a great state – that’s why we all have chosen to live here. But we also believe that we have painted ourselves into the proverbial corner with some short-sighted budget decisions, the total lack of desire for systemic reform, and legislators more concerned about their own personal power than helping the people of North Carolina.

The Foundation for NC Future believes that if our leaders provide fair personal and corporate tax rates, a good educational system, clean air and clean water, and a good, well-maintained transportation system we can have a state whose “quality of life” will serve as a beacon for families and companies who want to live and work in such a unique environment. The FNCF believes that such a climate can only occur when the citizens of North Carolina fully understand how their tax dollars are currently being spent and demand change and accountability in the North Carolina Legislature.

North Carolina is also rapidly approaching a crisis in our healthcare system. Medical malpractice claims and exorbitant insurance increases are forcing doctors to choose between practicing medicine or shutting down their offices. Every person in our state suffers when this choice is played out because many people, when faced with no doctor available to them, turn to seeking service in hospital emergency rooms – the single most expensive place to receive treatment. The costs of treatment under this system often fall to North Carolina’s taxpayers when patients can’t afford the higher costs of treatment. There have been studies done that show a high level of fraud in the state Medicaid program as well as savings that would occur if only the state bureaucracy would reform itself. The savings have been conservatively estimated in the hundreds of millions of dollars. The state and the legislature, as currently constituted, have shown absolutely no interest in seriously trying to reform the system. Such lack of action, in a time when budgets are clearly strained, begs the question, “Who do the Governor and the state legislators work for: The citizens of North Carolina or the special interests who donate millions of dollars to the legislative campaigns to sustain the status quo?”

The North Carolina legislature is clearly influenced by the trial lawyer community who are one of the largest political action committees and donors to state legislative races. In addition to the legal community, we must involve the hospitals, the insurance companies, the doctors themselves, and the patients to address this crisis. Only by educating our citizens and bringing together all the elements involved in the system, in a sincere debate about improving our delivery of medical care, can we hope to achieve any progress in enhancing it. As long as the discussion stays in the private meeting rooms and non-public lobbying dinners of Raleigh, productive change will never occur. Maintaining the “status quo” is no longer acceptable.

The Foundation for NC Future intends to inform the voters of North Carolina how the state government handles both of these issues. It will also inform citizens of many other important issues including: education advancement strategies, transportation, environment, healthcare, marriage & family, illegal immigration, homeland security, and crime & gang violence. The FNCF will let voters know when bills are introduced that might improve these issues and why – and how – such bills are kept from moving forward in our legislature. The FNCF will comment on and try to educate the voters through a combination of TV, radio, newspapers, e-mails, candidate questionnaires, and public debate. We will comment favorably on candidates for state office who appear to be sincerely trying work on solutions to these problems and unfavorably on candidates who use the system to deny any meaningful reform. The folks who have power in North Carolina are not going to like us very much – and that’s fine. If we can simply help show the voters of our state how to not just listen to what candidates for state offices say – but also to watch what they do after they are elected – we feel we can accomplish great things for our state.

Note to Pittenger: "In recent years North Carolina has experienced a loss of 185,000 manufacturing and textile jobs..." These losses were due to fast-tracked trade treaties, such as NAFTA, which serves the korporate intestes at the expense of wage earners.

[Terran]

21. How in hell did this idiot get elected in Massachusetts??

Possibly the most advanced state in the country, and you guys elect a gibbering repub moron for Governor.

[Say_What]

22. Exactly what I was wondering. He jokes about being a gov in a blue state

he's also got eyes on the WH.

:crazy:

[Red State Lib]

24. Romneys unlikely election

it seems to me that Romneys Dem, opponent had some issues. The details escape me. Hell yeah that bastard has eyes on the WH. He is a transplanted Massachusetts residedent, too, I think....

[Mr_Spock]

29. Romney had also run previously and lost

...but it was a close enough race that his rep. was still OK. He's a backstabbing RW religious fanatic who could not possibly get re-elected in Mass after making fun of the liberals there in a speech in the south. He's toast when his term runs out I'm pretty sure...

[paineinthearse]

23. That would be an excellent question to pose to the Massachusetts forum

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=158x6900

Unfortunately, these days it is deader than the proverbial doorknob.

[Realityhack]

49. Theres a MA forum??

Never knew... I think I will have to visit.

[paineinthearse]

52. Yes, please do

You can post to the same article. You'll be the first, it's been sitting there quietly for going on 11 hours.

PM me if you need a link.

[TheCowsCameHome]

31. Mass. has had GOP governors since 1989. Weld, Celucci, and him

Don't ask me why. I think it's just a sign of tokenism. They really have little clout up here.

[endarkenment]

37. Mass has been electing republican idiots as governor

for quite a while - nonstop since Mike Dukakis. There are a lot of reasons why: a desire to balance the rather one sided Democratic legislature, a series of not very good Democratic candidates, and the popularity of the one half way decent bunch of rethugs: Bill Weld. But Weld got bored and quit and was replaced by a series of truly moronic losers, mittens being the latest. Hopefully the voters have had it with these clowns and the field is open for a decent Democratic candidate.

[ckramer]

39. The problem was there are no "good looking" democratic candidates

It's terrible.

Democrats kept nominating weak candidates to run for the governor.

[Realityhack]

47. Sorry... its a bad habit of ours.

Actualy in this case its because some idiot decided to 'let the voters chose' despite it being blatantly illegal under MA law for Romney to run for gov.

The man is a lying sack of shit.

[EFerrari]

25. Thank heavens?

Oh, brother.

:rofl:

[President Kerry]

55. kinda like saying thank God there's no God

Mitt, you're a moron. Get the fuck out of my state and back to Utah (no offense to all the good Utah folks).

[leesa]

27. This lunatic needs to be brought down. He's a Republican, surely

he has a long trail of criminal activity to "out"

[nvliberal]

28. Romney should be worried more about our homegrown variety

of theocrats, for as a Mormon he would be among the first to be persecuted under a "Christian reconstructionist" society.

[TheCowsCameHome]

30. He's a fake. Big war supporter - five sons and not one in the military.

This guy is as phony as a $3 bill. Look out, American. Don't let the good looks fool you.............

He is running around the country knocking the state he was elected to govern.

[Stand and Fight]

35. WTF?

He's kidding, right, right? :rofl:

[paineinthearse]

36. Info about "Foundation for NC Future" & Robert Pittenger?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=170&topic_id=5780&mesg_id=5783

In the North Carolina forum, thanks to Koko01!

[PurityOfEssence]

40. Mitt Romney, a MORMON, is against theocracy. Hahahahahaha

That means "against other god-concepts".

He should form the "Mormons against Theocracy" movement; they wouldn't even be able to get a small tea party together, much less a HUGE throng like a crowd of 150.

[JerseygirlCT]

41. The irony is killing us. nt

[AX10]

42. Sort of like Utah where you better not be Jewish.

Right Mitt? :eyes: A theocracy of any sort is not tolerable and is UNAMERICAN.

Unless you are are a Fundifreak, you are not welcome in Utah. Utah, which is known for it's anti-semetism.

[Daftly]

57. I lived there 20 years and didn't see anti-semitism.

Most of the population is mormon so of course the state will be very conservative. Dems there are California Repubs.

Though their politics are screwed up, the people couldn't be better. What bugs people is that many wear their religion on their sleeve and will jump at the chance to talk about it with you. Just a completely different culture in that aspect when compared to either coast.

[Realityhack]

44. I'm sorry our gov. is an idiot...

I did not vote for him.

Heck it wasn't even legal for him to run (well they decided it was but the actual LAW said it was not).

[MADem]

54. What is UP with these GOP clowns and their real estate tax breaks?

Rove getting breaks in TX and DC, Cheney switching his residency to WY at the last minute to be the VP (cannot have both from the same state), Romney getting a resident's tax break in Utah....

These bastards have so many gd homes they cannot remember where they live?????

I think some Diebold style hanky panky happened with Mitt the shit's election. It likely happened around the margins, in small percentages here and there, but enough to put that clown in the corner office. He is not my governor, never will be, the CAHPITBAGGAH!

[Robeson]

48. The Christian Taliban certainly wants to make us a theorcracy....

...You know, people like....Romney!

[Megahurtz]

50. At first, with the headline I thought he

was trying to warn about it here.

:rofl:

[Why Syzygy]

56. What country is he FROM?

~snips~

They want to bring down our government, bring down our entire economy. They want to put in place a huge theocracy." ''Thank heavens we have a president of the United States who recognizes this for what it is and has declared war on it,
...
Then he was asked if he felt Islamic terrorists want to take over the United States. Romney said: ''No. No. No." ''I don't have any foreign intelligence that's any different than what you read in the various journals and so forth," the governor said. ''Among the various reports I've read -- and I think President Bush has described -- that there are some who wish to bring down the Western-leaning governments and put in a more fundamentalist, religious leadership. ...

Fehrnstrom also pointed to an account earlier this month from the New York Times describing a letter obtained by the US forces in Iraq that was written by Ayman al-Zawahiri, the second-ranking leader of Al Qaeda. According to the Times, the letter outlined a four-stage battle plan, beginning with the American military's expulsion, followed by the creation of a militant Islamic caliphate in Iraq and then in Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt. The final step, the Times reported, quoted unnamed US officials, would be a battle against Israel.
...

So, he's saying those countries in the "four point plan" are "western-leaning"? Or just Isra*el? What? There was nothing reportedly in the "plan" (if it even exists) to indicate the United States is under attack and in imminent danger of being turned over to "fundamentalist religious leadership". That's already been DONE! And THAT must change! Is "Isra*el" "our government"?

[pinniped]

58. This is the first thing these whackos were all crowing about after 9/11.

"They want to convert us all to Islam or kill us," was the phrase spewing out of their pieholes.

Does this loser know someone has been caught forging al-Qaeda letters? The jig is up. Pretty funny quoting shit from the alleged al-Qaeda letter that one of their cronies wrote.

[IndianaGreen]

59. How about the 1857 Mountain Meadows Massacre in Utah?

Let's look at the bloody history of the Mormon Church. On September 11, 1857, Mormons massacred a wagon train of Methodists:

THE 1857 MOUNTAIN MEADOWS MASSACRE

In 1846, most of the Mormons relocated to the Great Salt Lake, Utah, and established a theocracy under Brigham Young. Mormon anger against the Gentiles (non-Mormons) remained high for many years. They had been persecuted wherever they had tried to settle. The year 1857 was a time of particularly high tensions. The Mormons were expecting an attack by the U.S. Army. It was in the fall of that year in what is now southwestern Utah that the Mountain Meadows Massacre took place. Author Juanita Brooks has concluded, "The complete—the absolute—truth of the affair can probably never be evaluated by any human being; attempts to understand the forces which culminated in it and those which were set into motion by it are all very inadequate at best." 3

A group of men -- variously described as Southern Paiute Indians, Mormons dressed as Natives, or a combination of Natives and Mormons -- deceived and attacked a group of 137 pioneers. Their wagon train was traveling from Arkansas, through Utah, and on to California. There are allegations that Mormons in the Mountain Meadows area created unrest among the Native population by spreading a rumor that the the pioneers were planning go to California and return with an army to attack the Natives and Mormons.

Apparently, many people on both sides died in the initial conflict. The pioneers then surrendered. Under a flag of truce, they were disarmed, and then slaughtered in cold blood. In all, 120 men, women and children of the wagon train were killed. 17 children under the age of 10 were considered "too young to tell," and were spared. Brevet Jamor J.H. Carleton noted in his investigation of the tragedy "that about one third of the skulls were shot through with bullets and about one third seem to be broken with stones." 4

There was "a popular and widespread impression that John D. Lee was the leader and arch criminal of the massacre." 5 He was made the scapegoat, tried twice and executed in 1877. There are allegations that the massacre was perpetrated by an underground Danite group. This theory appears to be a hoax since no such group existed in Utah at the time.

Brigham Young led a church cover-up, saying that the Natives were responsible for the massacre. He wrote that pioneers had caused the death of Natives by giving them poisoned meat, and by poisoning some of their wells.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/lds_mass.htm