Libby Did Not Tell Grand Jury About Key Conversation

[LiviaOlivia]

nationaljournal.com
WHITE HOUSE
Libby Did Not Tell Grand Jury About Key Conversation
By Murray Waas, special to National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Tuesday, Oct. 11, 2005

In two appearances before the federal grand jury investigating the leak of a covert CIA operative's name, Lewis (Scooter) Libby, the chief of staff to Vice President Cheney, did not disclose a crucial conversation that he had with New York Times reporter Judith Miller in June 2003 about the operative, Valerie Plame, according to sources with firsthand knowledge of his sworn testimony.

Libby also did not disclose the June 23 conversation when he was twice interviewed by FBI agents working on the Plame leak investigation, the sources said.

Special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald apparently learned about the June 23 conversation for the first time just days ago, after attorneys for Miller and The New York Times informed prosecutors that Miller had discovered a set of notes on the conversation.

~snip~

Meanwhile, in recent days Fitzgerald has also expressed significant interest in whether Libby may have sought to discourage Miller-either directly or indirectly through her attorney-from testifying before the grand jury, or cooperating in other ways with the criminal probe, according to attorneys familiar with Miller's discussions with prosecutors.

~snip~


http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2005/1011nj1.htm#

[Debi]

1. He was REALLY busy at the time and must've forgot n/t

[texpatriot2004]

17. Rethugs have memory lapses on critical matters dontcha know

"I can't recall"
"I have no recollection"
"I don't remember any such conversation"

They are famous for it. It was funny yesterday on Hardball to hear Tweety and the pundits saying what a fantastic memory Rove has and that they WERE NOT buying his recent comments about not remembering. Sweet.

[Debi]

20. Let's not forget the email that Rove fogot to turn over n/t

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9630676/site/newsweek/

Sorry, forgot the link

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

2. Yummy. More popcorn, anyone?

:popcorn:

[Tight_rope]

6. Yes...I've started investing in Popcorn stock myself!

I should be able to retire on the investments I made.:popcorn:

[central scrutinizer]

3. the aspens are turning

nfm

[Hissyspit]

4. Obstruction charges with your popcorn, anyone?

nominated

The aspens are turning, Scooter, and the wind in them is whispering: "You are not one of the good guys."

[KittyWampus]

11. The Aspens Are Headed For A Buzzsaw

[Hissyspit]

19. Good point. Maybe they are whispering:

"Come with us, Scooter, come with us."

[DoYouEverWonder]

24. I hear there's going to be an oil shortage this winter

I bet aspens make good fire wood.

[leveymg]

5. Nailed. Perjury. Conspiracy. Obstruction of Justice.

Three strikes. Scooter could go away for life in California. Close to it in DC.

[0007]

21. What happens to dickie boy?

[leveymg]

28. Unindicted co-conspirator (obstruction of justice), just like the other

Dick (vintage 1974 Tricky Dick). As for Shrub, it all depends on what they told him - probably no more than what he's having for dinner.

Rice-A-Roni for dinner, and no Spaghetti-Os for Dubya

[worldgonekrazy]

46. Can you indict a Vice President?

Anybody know about this? I thought I remembered reading somewhere that the Supreme Court had to pretty much act as the Grand Jury when seeking an indictment of the President or Vice President...is this true?

[Spazito]

58. It is only the President considered immune from prosecution while

in office, all other officers including the VP are subject to indictment and prosecution according to this memorandum:

"The OLC memorandum concluded that all federal civil officers except the President are subject to indictment and criminal prosecution while still in office; the President is uniquely immune from such process. Second, the Department addressed the question later that same year in connection with the grand jury investigation of then-Vice President Spiro Agnew. In response to a motion by the Vice President to enjoin grand jury proceedings against him, then-Solicitor General Robert Bork filed a brief arguing that, consistent with the Constitution, the Vice President could be subject to indictment and criminal prosecution. See Memorandum for the United States Concerning the Vice President's Claim of Constitutional Immunity (filed Oct. 5, 1973), In re Proceedings of the Grand Jury Impaneled December 5, 1972: Application of Spiro T. Agnew, Vice President of the United States (D. Md. 1973) (No. 73-965) ("SG Brief"). In so arguing, however, Solicitor General Bork was careful to explain that the President, unlike the Vice President, could not constitutionally be subject to such criminal process while in office."

Link to whole memorandum:

http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/sitting_president.htm

[leveymg]

61. This is unsettled law. The unindicted co-conspirator gambit was

developed by Judge Jaworski so the DC Court of Appeals wouldn't have to directly decide the issue in US v. Nixon (Watergate). The Watergate Committee then used the ruling to threaten impeachment, and Nixon resigned.

[Tight_rope]

7. I love what this website has to say about ole "Scooter"...

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=109719


Who is Scooter Libby?

The Guy Behind the Guy Behind the Guy

by John Lyman
July 8, 2004

"When historians finally lift the curtain on the Bush administration, they will discover that Irv Lewis "Scooter" Libby was one of the most important men pulling the levers. Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, has been center stage for every one of the administration's national security scandals – the Iraq intelligence debacle, secret meetings about Halliburton contracts in Iraq, and the leaking of a CIA's agent's identity to the press – and doubtless others we have not heard of yet."

It's wonderful to know the ole saying "Birds of a feather, flock together"! is so true!

[MidwestTransplant]

8. Did Turd Blossom testify today?

[LiviaOlivia]

14. I heard Rove is going back this Friday

For his 4th app before the GJ.

[SillyGoose]

9. Who is doing all the leaking about this case lately?

I am wondering who the "sources" are that are leaking now after months of silence? All these leaks at this point make me nervous.

[Tight_rope]

13. Wondering Minds want to know!

:shrug:

[Beetwasher]

15. I'd Say Various Lawyers for those Involved (Not from Fitz)

This particluar leak I would guess comes from Miller's lawyer. They have all turned against eachother now and are vying for the best deals. That's my take anyway.

[dave29]

16. Miller's Lawyer Bennett

I would guess

[texpatriot2004]

18. I think the "leaks" are calculated. I think they are factoring in this

part of the case.

[leveymg]

29. More people are involved now that it's moving to the next stage of

actually issuing indictments. Arrangements have to be made with the US Marshall's Office for taking prisoners into custody, with the FBI and Pentagon for arranging protection of the court and jail facilities, etc.

All this is actually very encouraging. Don't worry, be happy.

[gumby]

10. Subornation of perjury?

Remember the hunt of Clinton and how this 'charge' was all-the-talk?

Memory Lane http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/white_house/jan-june98/clinton_1-22.html

[Beetwasher]

12. Libby's Fucked. Brutally, Royally Fucked.

And I couldn't be happier.

I really see no way out of indictments for him. He's practically busted dead to rights on at least obstruction and perjury.

[hiabrill]

22. Bush and Co. have got away with murder

Why wouldn't they get away from this one..?!?


I seriously hope Libby's fucked and in turn Bush's also fucked..!!But will it happen?

[mod mom]

25. Welcome to DU hiabrill. they are not going to get away because this time

we have an ethical prosecutor who is going after the truth. It's the pardons I worry about. Of course, if the internal squabble between */rove faction and cheney/libby faction is real, perhaps the boy idiot just might let his sorry butt rot in jail. Now that would be SWEET!

Frog walk the evil mf-er!

[MadisonProgressive]

43. Pardons will not help * approval rating!

[Barrett808]

30. Welcome to DU, hiabrill!

:hi:

[leveymg]

31. Yes, they have. But, this is what happens when you screw around with the

CIA and the DIA and the NSA and the FBI and every other alphabet agency in the American intelligence community.

They're fucked and they're going to jail, until Bush issues a lot of pardons on his last day in office, which isn't many weeks from now.

[Beetwasher]

32. Read Up On Fitz

There's lots here on DU about him. Fitz has him busted and is not one to be swayed, not from the mob, Al Quaeda or Bushco.

[worldgonekrazy]

47. Don't forget Conspiracy

Which could be the juiciest charge of all. Imagine how far it could be taken. I know it won't happen, but in my fantasies this case blows the lid off the whole thing.

[IndianaGreen]

57. Scooter can get out of jail if he turns evidence against Cheney

I think Cheney is the real target.

[Beetwasher]

63. I Dunno, At This Point HisPlea May Be For LESS Jail Time

and reduced charges. His in it too deep.

[daleo]

23. I think Bush will hand out pardons eventually

But it will kill the Republicans in 2008. It won't be justice, but it is all that can be expected, given the president's king-like right to grant blanket pardons.

[leveymg]

35. That King-like pardon thing has gotta go.

The Omnibus Government Operations and Elections Integrity Act of 2009 will fix that:

* Public funding of elections.

* No campaigning outside of a 120 day election cycle.

* No paid media spots.

* Weekly broadcast candidates debates.

* Paper receipts, pin numbers, open codes, and on-line verification.

* Death penalty for election fraud or vote tampering.

[hobbit709]

42. You left out the one I want

*No candidate can spend more campaigning than what the job pays.

[leveymg]

44. Thought I covered that with public funding - your's works, too.

But, we gotta leave them enough income to feed their families or else they'll start taking bribes again - death penalty or not.

[Tight_rope]

64. Hot Damn...We need those laws to be in effect right now....

Imagine if it was in affect in 2000. It would have been a whole different world these past 5 years.

[Ilsa]

26. Rut Rohhh! eom.

[Garbo 2004]

27. Libby DID give special permission to other journos to testify who did

not rely on the general waiver. (Time Mag's Cooper previously stated and wrote that Libby gave him personal permission to testify. Cooper did not rely on the general waiver) Yet the story goes Libby's team thought the general waiver was good enough for Judy? The feud between Libby's and Miller/NYT's teams as they pass the sticky ball back and forth seems to be bearing fruit.

Additionally, Fitz told Libby & his lawyer that they could talk to Judy only about the release from confidentiality without getting into the substance of the discussion/testimony. Because to get into the substance of the testimony could be viewed as obstruction. Libby's oddly crafted letter, as noted here previously, appears to coach and signal the witness which some (like Fitz) might view as an attempt at obstruction, witness tampering.

And recall the NYT was the one that publicly released Libby's letter to Miller. Whole lot of ass covering going on, it seems. And Libby's seems to be hanging out.

Tweety apparently started his show today with reference to Waas' article.

[worldgonekrazy]

49. That letter can't be used though

You can never prove that when Libby wrote about the aspens turning that he was coaching or sending secret messages to Miller, even though we all know it to be true.

[Garbo 2004]

52. Letter doesn't have to be used in court. It could add to leverage,

pressure on Libby, I'm thinkin. Pressure for Libby, perhaps, to cooperate more fully?

After all, when Fitz rattled Libby's cage on the waiver business and what he might construe if Libby did not release Miller, Libby rather quickly released Judy in writing to testify, which he did not do before.

Now after another chat with Fitz, Judy's testifying again before the GJ tomorrow to "supplement" her previous testimony. http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001264616

Pass the popcorn. ;)

[Peace Patriot]

33. Well, I just read Libby's "aspens" letter, and I think the "turning" of...

aspens in the "fall" means that Libby is taking the fall for Cheney and the Cartel, and will be "vacationing"--as he says that Miller does--"Out West," i.e., in jail (out of the loop, in the wilderness). Also, a possible threat to HER life ("come back to work--and life") has been put in abeyance.

The deal's been made. My guess: Cheney will be named as an "unindicted co-conspirator," and will resign to prevent further investigation. He's too powerful, too brutal and too well-larded (extra-lavishly, from the Katrina loot--in his blackmail deal with Bush Jr., I think, not to rat on him), for anyone to go after him, at this point, and actually hold him accountable in any way, for his many crimes.

I think they're covering up something far worse than punishment of an ex-diplomat for his dissenting article, and consequent rash violations of the Espionage Act. My guess: I think they had planned to plant WMDs in Iraq (most likely, nukes), and set Joe Wilson up--on a wild goose chase to Niger, based on forged documents--to then discredit the CIA when their phony, planted WMDs were "found" by Judith Miller. But the plot got foiled. And Plame got outed, and David Kelly (Brits chief WMD expert) got killed, for knowing too much about it, or having a hand in foiling it.

Something big at stake in this--for all the risks they took to cover it up (and cover up the cover up). 7/7/03: Tony Blair informed that David Kelly knew something more (than he was whistleblowing about to the BBC, the "sexed up" intel). 7/14/03: Plame outed. 7/18/03: Kelly found dead, under highly suspicious circumstances; his office and computers searched. 7/22/03: The entire CIA WMD monitoring program (Brewster Jennings) outed.

Very high stakes, to involve everyone all the way up to Bush, in a mad, panicky week (7/7 - 7/14), contacting at least SIX journalists, circulating the Plame memo on AF-1, and putting many top Bushites at high risk of treason charges--just to punish Wilson? Why the full court press? And why, then, double the risk by outing Brewster Jennings as well? And why do it in such a rushed, foolish, risky way? What was the rush?

Probably a lot of the evidence of the deep plot has been shredded (and witnesses killed--not the least, Kelly, and covert BJ contacts). Fitzgerald likely can't nail them with it (if he's onto this--or some other--deeper plot). But he certainly must know that they didn't do all this, at such risk, just to silence dissent. (They have a spin machine, a lapdog press and black ops to do that.)

I sure wonder what Fitzgerald knows, though--given the rumor of a Rumsfeld resignation (signed the special "embed" contract for Judith Miller to go "hunting" for the WMDs in Iraq that they all knew weren't there), Cheney's reported aneurysms (resigning soon, after he got his Katrina looting permit in exchange for not ratting on Bush Jr.?), and Rove's kidney stones (belated newsturd to cover his absence--his strategic withdrawal of his PR services--during Katrina--negotiating his pardon, or his "golden parachute"?).

So far, everything that's come up has fit my theory (a plot to plant WMDs in Iraq, that got foiled). Miller's suddenly appearing June 23 notes confirms a long term plot to "get" the CIA (in my opinion, by discrediting the CIA on WMDs, when the phony ones were "found"). That plot got accelerated, and made very urgent, by Blair informing them, on or around 7/7/03, that Kelly knew about it. Thus, the haste, panic, and carelessness in the Plame/BJ outings.

From Miller's point of view, though, it may be related to her release, by Libby, to let him be the fall guy.

I'm kind of relieved that a deal has been made (if it has). The other things Libby mentions in his letter to Miller--biological threats, Iranian nukes (the stories he says she should be writing about, instead of being in jail)--send chills through one's soul.

A new thought: Could the "aspens" he writes about (that "turn in clusters, because their roots are connected") be a ANOTHER WMD-planting plot, this one in Iran? (--made possible by their, in fact, having disabled the CIA's weapons monitoring capability?). Did they divert the project to Iran--and, are, at this moment, planting nukes there, and manufacturing evidence that the nukes originated in Iraq?

Just the story for Judith Miller to get her credibility back with!

"They turn in clusters, because their roots connect them. Come back to work--and life." (Libby to Miller)

Ye gods.

[GliderGuider]

36. The threads are all starting to tie together, aren't they?

For me they touchstone of probablility is how well Kelly's death fits the scenario. We all knew it was an important piece of the puzzle, but now its place in the jigsaw of deception is at last clear.

[leveymg]

37. Going into the bottom of the 9th, we can't call the game yet.

But, excellent recap. Just a few observations.

Nobody believes for a second that Scooter did this on his own - Cheney is the ultimate detail man and control freak. Disck's not getting away anything. His crimes and those of Poppy are so serious that neither will live to see the next Presidential elections. Bush 41 started sky-diving last July when they presented him with the black capsule - Cheney got one, too. They both dishonored their Party, their Old School ties, and cost their investors trillions -- for this, particularly the last part, they will both pay the ultimate price by their own hands. Just like the Cosa Nostra.

The thing they're covering up is right out in the open: the parallel prosecution of the neocon OSP-AIPAC spy scandal (the Larry Franklin case), which was actually the second track of the forged WMD documents, only this was to frame IRAN using data provided by Israeli intelligence. See, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/15/12176/9231

Last quibble. Judy's more likely to get her virginity back than to be a credible journalist again.

[jamesinca]

45. so your saying Judy got laid

By who? Was it Scooter? Were there conjugal visits? Oh the plot thickens. LOL

"Last quibble. Judy's more likely to get her virginity back than to be a credible journalist again."

[daleo]

40. Interesting analysis.

I don't know if you are right, but it makes sense of some things.

[worldgonekrazy]

50. Yes, it is important to remember Kelly

He clearly fits into all this. Those bizzaro e-mails to Miller read like a more outrightly dark "the aspen's are turning" letter.

[Just Me]

34. Whoopsie! *LOL* Very strange game being played by Judy and,....

,...the neoconsters. One must wonder whether they are still in cahootz or saving their own rear-ends.

[worldgonekrazy]

51. I'm guessing the latter

But you're right, that is an interesting question. It could be that Miller was finally given permission to testify because Libby et. al had figured out how to cover their tracks. Given the clearly threatening town of Libby's letter to Miller, however, I suspect they are in disarray and are merely trying to save their own asses at this point.

[truthisfreedom]

38. err... oops! do they have soap on a rope in prison?

it's easier to retrieve that way.

[The Stranger]

39. Hope Fitzgerald fries him.

[MadisonProgressive]

41. "Scooter" is going to go over real well with rest of the inmates

[MADem]

48. He will not spend one lousy second in jail, not one

He will appeal if convicted, stall like a recalcitrant mule, waive speedy trial, spin, bullshit and obfuscate, and at the end of the day, Monkeyboy will issue him a blanket pardon.

Otherwise, he will do a Cap Weinberger, and threaten to spill ALL THE BEANS. This shit is just the tip of the iceberg, I suspect. That is what happens when you are drunk with power and get sloppy.

[paineinthearse]

53. RS/ National Journal-Libby Did Not Tell Grand Jury About Key Conversation

http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2005/1011nj1.htm#

WHITE HOUSE
Libby Did Not Tell Grand Jury About Key Conversation

By Murray Waas, special to National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Tuesday, Oct. 11, 2005

In two appearances before the federal grand jury investigating the leak of a covert CIA operative's name, Lewis (Scooter) Libby, the chief of staff to Vice President Cheney, did not disclose a crucial conversation that he had with New York Times reporter Judith Miller in June 2003 about the operative, Valerie Plame, according to sources with firsthand knowledge of his sworn testimony.

The new revelations regarding Libby come as Fitzgerald has indicated that he is wrapping up his investigation and making final decisions as to whether criminal charges will be brought in the case.

Libby also did not disclose the June 23 conversation when he was twice interviewed by FBI agents working on the Plame leak investigation, the sources said.

Special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald apparently learned about the June 23 conversation for the first time just days ago, after attorneys for Miller and The New York Times informed prosecutors that Miller had discovered a set of notes on the conversation.

much more.....I'll apend more from Waas' own site when updated.

[Demobrat]

54. So can he weasel out of it

by saying they didn't ask?

[Kagemusha]

55. Depends what he was asked.

By Fitz.

By the grand jury.

By the FBI.

We'd have to believe there's an awful lot of really stupid people among those 3 to believe no one asked a question broad enough that Libby wasn't lying by omission or making an omission he might later plead lack of memory regarding.

[Zynx]

56. Probably screwed. Fitz almost certainly asked him about this.

[pola]

59. Please tell me Fitz. has a bodyguard !!

He looks like the type who would take care of his safety.

If you believe in prayer,... please pray for Fitz. to be successful SOON !
I believe God will hear THOUSANDS of us praying for their country to be saved - by one man - Patrick Fitzgerald..


:patriot:

[paineinthearse]

60. Rove-Gate Heating up? A few you may have missed.... Stonewall Breaking...

JC's rocking blog entry - read at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2151299&mesg_id=2151299

"Prediction: at least three high level Bush Administration personnel indicted and possibly one or more very high level unindicted co-conspirators."

[UCSBLiberalCat53]

62. It was binding magic

Satanic liberals used curse tablets to bind his tongue so he could not tell Fitzgerald of this conversation even though he really wanted to, because right-wingers like Scooter always tell the truth.

[goforit]

65. By the way has anyone seen Ted Olsen lately?

Is he hiding out with his so called "Deceased Wife", Barbara Olsen
somewhere????

[rodeodance]

66. maybe he is the one turning on Cheney?

[lovuian]

68. Thats a great ??? Where is Ted why isn't he defending Bush!!!

:bounce:

[lovuian]

67. Scooter is cooked!!! Perjury!!! Thanks to Judith

or should I say whoever found those note on June 23!!!

Victoria Flame is burning him!!!