WP: A Polling Free-Fall Among Blacks (just 2% support *)

[paineinthearse]

Talk about a mandate!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2005/10/13/BL2005101300885.html?nav=rss_nation/special

A Polling Free-Fall Among Blacks

By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Thursday, October 13, 2005; 12:24 PM

In what may turn out to be one of the biggest free-falls in the history of presidential polling, President Bush's job-approval rating among African Americans has dropped to 2 percent, according to a new NBC/Wall Street Journal poll. The drop among blacks drove Bush's overall job approval ratings to an all-time low of 39 percent in this poll. By comparison, 45 percent of whites and 36 percent of Hispanics approve of the job Bush is doing.

A few months after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, the NBC/Wall Street Journal poll found Bush's approval rating among blacks at 51 percent. As recently as six months ago, it was at 19 percent. But Bush's bungled response to Hurricane Katrina -- seen by many blacks as evidence that he didn't care about them (see my September 13 column ) -- may have brought support for the president in the African American community down to nearly negligible levels.

Tim Russert called attention to this startling statistic on the NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams yesterday: "Brian, listen to this," he said. "Only 2 percent -- 2 percent! -- of African-Americans approve of George Bush's handling of the presidency -- the lowest we have ever seen in that particular measure." So this morning, I called Democratic pollster Peter D. Hart, who conducted the survey with Republican pollster Bill McInturff, to get a better sense of the significance of the results. "African Americans were not supporters, but I don't think that they outright detested him -- until now," Hart said. "The actions in and around Katrina persuaded African Americans that this was a president who was totally insensitive to their concerns and their needs." Hart said he has never seen such a dramatic drop in presidential approval ratings, within any subgroup.

This latest poll included 807 people nationwide, and only 89 blacks. As a result, there is a considerable margin or error -- and the findings should not be considered definitive until or unless they are validated by other polls. David Bositis, a senior political analyst at the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, which tracks African American public opinion, told me this morning that it's clear that Bush's job approval among blacks "has taken a hit from both the ongoing things in Iraq and what happened with Katrina." But down to 2 percent? "I doubt that it's actually 2," he said. "But would I be surprised if it's 10 or 12? No." And 10, he said, is typically "about as low as you can go" when it comes to approval ratings.

more.......

Here are the overall results of the poll. The cross tabs, showing results by race and party, are not included.

[Hobarticus]

Kanye West in '08...

At least he calls 'em like he sees 'em.

[LisaM]

1. I think Bill Bennet contributed to this

The Katrina situation was bad enough, but the Bill Bennett remarks were just salt in the wound.

[CountAllVotes]

2. I hope all Blacks and everyone else goes against this monster

It is too bad that it took Katrina to open the eyes of many as to the reality of these goons. They don't care one tiny bit about the American people and they really don't care for Blacks especially as we've seen.

It is all about racism!

I hope all the Black Americans out there vote in the upcoming elections - vote absentee if you have those damn machines! :grr:

:kick:

[Chipper Chat]

12. How will Diebold fix this in Cleveland?

I can just see the exit polls showing the Democrat wins 75%-25%, but Blackwell's official results in the black preceincts will be Republican 51%-Democrat 49%. Will they get away with it again?

[BadGimp]

116. yes they will

They are evil and they will not stop till they are stopped.

[disndat]

125. I volunteered in Ohio

for the Kerry campaign, '04. I spoke to blacks who'd never voted before, and made the commitment to vote in this election. As reported, the voters in black districts in Ohio did vote in great numbers, many waited in line on that rainy day for hours and hours. It was personally heartbreaking to me given the outcome. Jim Crow was alive and well in Ohio, thanks to the Karl Rove dirty tricks, the Diebold machines, and the incompetence of the Kerry campaign in Ohio.:cry:

[oxbow]

59. Hell yea. I wanna see 2% approval among blacks, whites, asians, hispanics

People all over the world, join hands....

[cliss]

126. I'm so ashamed of my race.

I personally believe White people are not really much worse than any other race. It's just that the White House is LILY-WHITE. So is the majority of the government. They are making the decisions from their point of view for the entire country.

If it were Chinese people in charge, they would be exactly the same. It's not really White people, it's just that they are Exclusively White.

We need better representation. I'm saying that this would be better for us all.

[Blaq Dem]

133. Oh, don't be too hard on yourself

This is not a black and white issue. This is a matter of right and wrong. It's white people like you who can make a huge difference. History is full of brave souls who went against the tide of inhumanity. You should take pride in not buying in that conservative bullcrap.

[enid602]

3. GWB

You're doin' a heck of a job, Georgie!

[johnfunk]

131. He's in free-fall!

You can watch George in free-fall at

http://www.yeeguy.com/freefall/

If he gets stuck, just drag and drop him!

[Beetwasher]

4. It's Within MOE, So, Realistically We Can Claim It Could Be 0%

And I think it is.

[twaddler01]

103. nice point

:toast:

[lcordero2]

5. I'm latino, I wonder why 36% of us are so damn F-ing stupid

[marmar]

16. I REALLY wonder about the Latino percentage...

I don't think it's close to being that high. Are they over-polling Cubans in Miami and newly-arrived, giddy-to-be in America immigrants?

[Vanje]

22. The GOP is popular in Agricultural communities.

Here Idaho, there are lots of latinos in agriculture

[lcordero2]

23. About american immigrants...

They wouldn't be here if the Establishment wasn't propping up dictators, exterminating south america's indigenous people, supporting the drug trade and terrorists in their home countries, and contributing to the overall corruption in their home countries.

[NorthernSpy]

24. unlike blacks, Latinos are not a single group

In the US, nearly all persons of African descent are members of the black American social grouping/caste/ethno-racial complex (for desperate want of a better -- or at least shorter -- term).

By contrast, Latinos are basically a language group, like Francophones or Anglophones. When Latinos are divided by ethnicity, you see large differences of worldview and political affiliation among them.

[marmar]

25. I agree to some extent...

but I think also think there's an overall Latino American cultural identity that connects all of the many ethnicities, be it Mexican, Puerto Rican, Guatemalan, Cuban, Panamanian or whatever.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

50. I actually do believe the percentage

Here in New Mexico I'd say about 4 in 10 Mexican-Americans support him. We have very few immigrants and the latino community has been established here for over a century. That could have something to do with his support.

[AspenRose]

80. I believe it too

I too am in New Mexico and one of my friends is married to a staunchly Catholic army veteran who is "pro-life" and thinks GWB walks on water. He watches O'Reilly faithfully every day, listens to Rush and Hannity on 770 every day....and he's hispanic. He's in Sandoval county (Rio Rancho).

Go north, however, to near my neck of the woods in Rio Arriba county (Espanola) and it's a different story. Very, very blue county. Signs that said "Labor for Kerry" dominated this time last year.

New Mexico is unique in its hispanic history, in that those who are descendants of the Spanish Conquistadores have been here over 400 years (that's not the entire hispanic population in the state, but it's a significant portion). They're not to be confused with the Mexican-American population.

Bottom line: Liberal hispanics (MALDEF, La Raza, LULAC) need to join with the NAACP, CORE, etc. There is strength in numbers and it's long overdue.

[Blaq Dem]

134. Yes, yes, blacks and latinos need to unite!

Just as my African ancestors united with Native Americans, we should unite with Latinos. (Wonder what happened to an entire continent of Natives? If they didn't die or shoved away to reservations, they became black.) One of my biggest fears is seeing a rift between our populations. We've witnessed thoughout American history how one group is pitted against another.

Today, it's being done with labor. We see them celebrating with glee when the 2000 census shows Hispanic over-taking blacks as the majority-minority population. You remember the remark Mexico's president Fox said about illegal migrants taking jobs that black people didn't want. We see Bush actively seeking Hispanic votes, not blacks.

We should be careful. Corporate pigs will pit us against one other until we end up killing each other. And for what? A tiny bit of the pie? In all, I truly believe corporate thugs want to replace blacks with Latinos for the sake of having cheaper labor without complaint. They did it before by replacing Natives with Africans. I tell you scream loudly for your rights. You ARE human. Once the Latino's start demanding Civil Rights, you'll see all hell break loose.

Oh, stay tune to the Million's More march in DC this weekend.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

141. Yes, northern central NM is very Democratic

We're pretty blue here in Grant County, but there are still too many bush stickers on the vehicles around here for my tastes.

[deadparrot]

93. Could be the Catholic anti-abortion thing.

I don't know how the Hispanic community generally feels about gays, but as a lapsed Catholic, I can say with confidence that I've seen a lot of people vote against their best interests in order to be "pro-life" voters.

[ClintonTyree]

95. I think you hit the nail on the head........

it's a religious thing. The Cons fill the Hispanics' heads with propaganda telling them Democrats are baby killers and want to abort Hispanic babies. Most Hispanics are devoutly Catholic and vote on those issues alone. That's the only reason I can think of for that alarming number of bush supporters from the Hispanic community.

[LatinoSocialist]

31. i wonder this myself

perhaps we haven't been called "spics" enough. Maybe that's the difference.

I've had enough racism directed at me to understand what party I'm NOT gonna vote for.

[SquireJons]

60. Not just Latino's

I read in the same poll, that 11% of Democrates approve of Bush's handleing of the presidency? Who the hell are these Democrates? I can not understand even 1% support from Dems. It must be a few lying repukes.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

63. I'm guessing "moral values."

I remember a post-election article describing *'s gains among Latinos. One interviewee who voted for him said (paraphrasing), "I'm against abortion and so is Bush. I'm against gay marriage and so is Bush."

The horribly ironic part was that this guy is getting screwed in Bushworld because of his economic status -- I kid you not, this * supporter was a SECURITY GUARD.

[DUBYASCREWEDUS]

67. Don't knock yourself out

I am Caucasian and I can't figure out how a majority of my people can vote for such a brain dead moron. Every time I see a poll that says that Dumbya has ANY kind of support I marvel at what type of brainless twit could support someone so dumb he can't think, speak or stutter in complete sentences!

[Spiffarino]

128. Why should latinos be any different than us caucasoids?

Latino voters have always been a pretty independent lot. I grew up in California and I remember the latino vote could go either way most years.

IIRC, something like 56% of white American males voted for Duhbya. Most of 'em aren't rich, either. I know plenty who think the sun rises and sets on his lily-white ass because they hate "queers" and love that Bush rushes into war without a second thought. And of course, none of them have served in the military and they aren't about to send their kids..

Sorry about the rant. I've got a few hardcore righty whities at work and they're really starting to piss me off big time. If Bush bit the head off a baby seal, they'd cheer.

[marmar]

6. "but I don't think that they outright detested him - until now."

That about sums it up.

[Beetwasher]

7. You Should Have Heard This Woman On The Subway The Other Day

Speaking about Bush. She was talking to a friend, loudly, and I won't repeat what she said, but let's just say, if she said it online, she'd probably get a visit, if you know what I mean.

Yeah, she detested him, with a passion.

[Skittles]

9. I speak up when I hear that

I'm with ya I will say

[Beetwasher]

19. I'm Not Surprised!

:hi:

[Skittles]

55. HOWDY BEETWASHER MY SWEET

:hi:

[Endangered Specie]

8. Im suprised they got even 2%, over the last 6 months

the Republicans have made clear just how much they care about non-white rich people (that is, next to nothing).

[FighttheFuture]

98. Well... tha';s Clarence, Condi and a few other "house servants"...

they trot out from time to time. If we were invaded by alien conquerors tomorrow, there would always be a few who would sell out their own!! Just the bell curve in action!

[Endangered Specie]

123. "house servants"...

thats not what most my black friends call them :evilgrin:

[Skittles]

10. WHO ARE THESE TWO PERCENT

I WILL KICK THEIR ASS

[kick-ass-bob]

13. One is his Secretary of State

and there was one other.

(as there were 89 blacks polled)

[saigon68]

61. The mirror factory lady

The one with the beautiful disposition.

[Beetwasher]

14. The Don't Exist, It's Statistical Noise. Chimpy's At 0% W/ Blacks

:hi:

[Akoto]

15. Generally speaking ...

Regardless of race, I always assume that those few people who support him in the polls are blinded by religion or gaining financially from *'s rule.

[belle]

32. Or on powerful hallucinogens.

[daleo]

47. Or misheard the question. n/t

[President Kerry]

114. meaning the answer to the question

"Do you like rice crispies?" is interpreted as the answer to "Do you support President Bush?".

[paineinthearse]

18. People like Jesse Lee Peterson & his BOND organization

Jesse Lee Peterson of the "Brotherhood Organization of a New Destiny (BOND).

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5037747&mesg_id=5040441

Or "Condi" Rice or what's his name, the former Rep. from Oklahoma.

[Tight_rope]

71. Black Ministers only support Bush for one reason!

Follow the money.

I don't have the statistics or a link. But everyone knows that any so-called religious organization who support Bushco go money. Hell, I live in Houston and I can't begin to tell you how many churches popped up all over the place after Bush got selected.

Many they all burn in hell for trying to so-call spread the gossip only because they could gets lots of many from the government. :spank: That's why they don't get my money. Hell they all get my tax dollars.:evilfrown:

[AndyTiedye]

20. Ken Blackwell and Condolezza Rice

[desi826]

49. Classic

Skittles wrote:

"WHO ARE THESE TWO PERCENT""
"I WILL KICK THEIR ASS"


LMAO!!!
Des

[Catchawave]

Jumping to my bet on the come...this is about

class too, isn't it?

We need to frame the debate, when it comes to class, not just about the "color" of the victims of Katrina ? Also, not about the color of the 2004 voters ?

Polls don't poll the middies and lower classes, ever!

[AndyTiedye]

21. No Phone, No Poll

[Catchawave]

26. Ok ?

No phone, no poll, me too!

[fshrink]

11. Token is used up?

[wanpete]

17. KATRINA, KATRINA, KATRINA!

I have said on the DU since the Katrina fiasco that this will kill whatever support * may have had with black people. The images from Katrina are seared into our collective psyche never to fade. The treatment of the NOLA residents was so horrific and unbelievable that shrub and company will NEVER live it down.

Bill Maher had it right when he said that the rethugs have lost a whole generation of A.As. Anyone who knows anything about Katrina with half of a conscience could never support an administration or political party that would allow this to happen.:grr:

[LatinoSocialist]

27. those 2% are actually 2: Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice

Wow...from 9% support to 2% support.

That Katrina issue really did it in for the Republicans.

[stanwyck]

29. I'm not so sure about Colin

if the election was held tomorrow, I'm not sure Bush could count on Powell's vote.

[LatinoSocialist]

30. well, he got used

He's a moron if he couldn't tell what type of person was Bush. We all told him to stay out of Bush's administration. He's a fool.

[SquireJons]

62. He's gotten smarter lately

Apparently he has provided very damning testimony to Fitzgerald, and he turned down the boy king when asked to be the front man for the administrations spin control after Katrina.

He's wising up. I know it's not popular here, but I think the Dems could go a long way if they courted Powell strongly. He has the trust and respect of a large majority of Americans, Dems and pukes a like. At this point, he might be willing to switch parties, ala Wes Clark.

The unfortunate truth is that the Democratic party lacks any leaders with national clout, while the pukes have several. If the pukes are smart enough to nominate Rudy (fortunately, they are not), the Dems are going to get creamed unless they have a ringer in 2008, and I don't mean Hilary. Either way, they need someone with leadership credentials and a firm national reputation to win the White House. Keep in mind that no democratic nominee has received 50% of the popular vote since Carter... 30 years ago. We need to win this next damned election, or we will be looking at a national catastrophe of epoch proportions.

[LatinoSocialist]

64. Rudy would be toast

Whatever happened to his personal affair and leaving of his wife? That wouldn't go smoothly with the Bible-thumper crowd.

And I don't think that Colin Powell should be courted by the Democratic party. I think the best thing for him is to remain in political isolation from both sides, so he can serve his punishment of public opinion. I hope Colin serves out the rest of his life doing non-political stuff, because he royally blew it at the U.N. and I hope that remains his legacy. That's all these asses care about anyway.

[BronxBoy]

106. You kidding right????

Rudy Giulani????

[Sabriel]

58. Who are those other 7 people who bailed on him recently?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[sonicx]

28. "Honey, did you see this?"

"Apparently, George Bush has been abandoning Negros like hotcakes! It's in the May issue."

[54anickel]

33. Oh no! This means we'll be seeing a lot more of Shrub and Pickles

on the TeeVee attempting another image make-over.

[Tight_rope]

75. I will die from laughing too hard if i see the chimp is baggy jeans

pulled down to his knees, with his drawers showing, a long FUBU shirt and a painted pair of Nike's or Air Jordon's. :rofl:

And damn I can just see pickles in a tight hoochie mama cut off top showing a belly button piercing and a mini skirt so short that you can see her thongs when she bends over. :puke: What a sickening sight that would be. I think I've gotten some brain damage just thinking about it. :crazy:

[54anickel]

100. Hope they pay closer attention to the background in the photo-ops

[PinkyisBlue]

129. The teen to Laura's left

looks really thrilled to be sitting next to the "leader of the free world's" wife.

I'm encouraged by all this ANGER and DISGUST with this president and administration, but what are we going to DO about it? What do you do when the other team doesn't play fair?

[BronxBoy]

107. Photoshop anyone? n/t

[doxieone]

34. Polling Free- Fall Amongst Blacks (GWB has only 2% approval)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2005/10/13/BL2005101300885.html?nav=rss_nation/special

A Polling Free-Fall Among Blacks

By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Thursday, October 13, 2005; 3:09 PM

In what may turn out to be one of the biggest free-falls in the history of presidential polling, President Bush's job-approval rating among African Americans has dropped to 2 percent, according to a new NBC/Wall Street Journal poll.

The drop among blacks drove Bush's overall job approval ratings to an all-time low of 39 percent in this poll. By comparison, 45 percent of whites and 36 percent of Hispanics approve of the job Bush is doing.


snip

This latest poll included 807 people nationwide, and only 89 blacks. As a result, there is a considerable margin or error -- and the findings should not be considered definitive until or unless they are validated by other polls.

David Bositis, a senior political analyst at the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, which tracks African American public opinion, told me this morning that it's clear that Bush's job approval among blacks "has taken a hit from both the ongoing things in Iraq and what happened with Katrina."

But down to 2 percent? "I doubt that it's actually 2," he said.

"But would I be surprised if it's 10 or 12? No." And 10, he said, is typically "about as low as you can go" when it comes to approval ratings.

snip

[Deep13]

35. So why are nearly half of whites so goddamn stupid?

:shrug:

[powwowdancer]

44. surely you jest...

I know... "NO, and don't call me shirley!" :-) Listen. That'd be the percentage of white folk who do the oppressing. Sad but true. If you doubt me, talk to any caucasoid with a "W" sticker on his/her car and you'll see what I mean. The little shrub has polarized this country and then some... he's caused the bigots, morons and other sundry stripes of elitist scum to dig in and FIGHT. He's given them hope that maybe, just maybe, they can maintain the status quo. Used to be that a majority of bigots would at least do us all the courtesy of keeping their hate to themselves, but now thanks to le shrub and FUX news, they're shouting "See, I told you so! See what's going on in N.O.? Looting, lawlessness and shooting at rescue helicopters!?" (Don't forget that "Homos" blew up the world trade center... this from the same talking sphincter who is advocating "whackin' out" a foreign head of state. These bigoted asses are positively giddy with their own hubris). Doesn't matter that the bulk of the N.O. noise was an egregious fiction fabricated for them by other, demented bigots with the same, racist agenda. Same kinda mindset that gets that same percentage of white folk so bent when a purty young thang goes missing, viz, the "runaway bride" (aka big fuckin' loser), and Natalee Holloway, (aka, big, PREVENTABLE tragedy had her parents half a brain), among others. I'm sorry, but if you foot the bill for your high school kid to go to ANOTHER COUNTRY to do tequila shooters and engage in serial sex, you're a shit parent. When she turns up missing, her parents should've been held accountable for such an incredibly stupid judgment call. And don't anyone use the "C" word, (chaperon), 'cuz a chaperon ain't no good if he or she AIN'T WATCHIN'! Please note that the white perp walked because, well... he was rich and white and part of the colonial power that runs the show in Aruba. But it's not about that. Never was. It's about protecting pretty white girls. Asian, hispanic, native and African American women go missing and no one says word one; it's like that 45% of aggressively stupid Americans just kind of expect that from people of color as a matter of course. But if a pretty white woman ain't where she's s'posed to be then YEE-HAW!! We got's us a MEDIA EVENT. The same witless turds that enable this kind of inequity are the same witless turds who think chimpula is the second coming of Christ. Sad, pathetic, heart-breaking but true.

:dem:
powwowdancer out

[AspenRose]

83. Brilliant

I bow before your astute wisdom. :applause: :yourock:

[jilln]

36. you should change the title

<98% means LESS than 98% disapprove, which could mean 98% approve

[doxieone]

39. I did!

[mirandaod]

37. After the last election,

I was watching some interview, I think maybe on truthout.org, and they asked an elderly black lady from New Orleans how she voted. She said she just chose Bush, kindof at the last second. I find myself wondering how she feels about her choice now, assuming she survived Katrina.
I think maybe many religious Blacks may have been convinced by their ministers to vote for Bush.
The Democrats need to do more to reach that community.

[90-percent]

38. wow!

2% approval amongst blacks? That's abysmal, wretched, absolutely horrible.

That is one helluva spectacular statistic! George Wallace could get better numbers from blacks. Hell, James Earl Ray could probably get better numbers from blacks!

That figure is truly astonishingly bad! I'm amazed.

-85%

[Drifter]

40. 2% ??? ....

I can only imagine that 1.9% of the people misunderstood the question.

Cheers
Drifter

[belle]

42. Perhaps they thought a different "bush" was meant?

[punpirate]

41. Don't know why they're saying there's a considerable margin...

... of error. The sample there is pretty close to the percentage of blacks in the total population--11% as opposed to 13-14%.

Guess you can't abuse a bunch of poor black people, plaster stereotypes all over the television news, and then not expect consequences....

[Piperay]

43. 2% ???

WHY is it even that high?!? :crazy:

[AnneD]

45. My thoughts exactly...

we need to do more outreach... Believe me, those black business men and women and other well heeled did an about face after Katrina. It was a watershed experience for black America, one that the GOP may never recover from.

[daleo]

46. His support among blacks could be as low as -0.8%, as high as 5.3%

This is the 95% confidence interval of 2 "in favor of" votes among a sample of 89. The interval includes 0, which you don't see too often. It is a sort of an achievement, I suppose.

[paineinthearse]

48. An achievement * can put on his his resume

Anyone have a link to that post from a few days ago? I wanted to bookmark it but forgot.

[Mark Baker]

99. How can the confidence interval include 0%?

We know there are definitely 2 blacks in the country who are in favour of Bush. Assuming Condi wasn't one of those polled, I guess that makes three. Now that's not many as a percentage of all the blacks in the country, but it's more than 0%.

[daleo]

110. There are ways it makes sense.

It just means that you can't say this sample result is different from zero, in a statistical sense. As you say, though, clearly it seems there are at least two blacks in the country that are ok with Bush's record, and proportions can't actually go below 0 or above 100 (sports jargon notwithstanding), so he does have a non-zero approval rating among blacks.

Mind you, when you get results this low in a survey it can mean that a few people misheard the question, said "yes" when they meant "no", or were not mentally competent.

I have been surveyed a few times, and I know a long survey can test one's attention span in this regard. Perhaps this explains the 2 positive responses.

[President Kerry]

115. 2 people out of a sample of hundreds or more in pretty close to zero n/t

[desi826]

51. Typical of Wash Post to front for Bush

Why didn't the Post ask a BLACK person if that number was accurate?

Hell, why didn't they ask the NAACP if that number was accurate?
They'd have told them the truth.

They went to a F*cking WHITE organization to find out about whether information about BLACKS was accurate!

They really make me sick.

It's not just the aftermath of Katrina that has contributed to it, it is also the rash of racist comments that have come out as well by everyone from ministers, to Congressmen, to Senators as well.
All of these things are being contributed to Bush because these people are considered his allies and that he has the ability to shut them up, but won't, because he doesn't give a shit.

Now because everyone is making a fuss over this number(it makes the Bushies look bad) watch the next poll is going to be higher.
It will be a LIE, but it will be higher.
Rove will make sure of it(in between worrying about indictment.)
Des

[paineinthearse]

56. Maybe I'm missing something....

Why the rant against WaPo? They are just reporting on "...a new NBC/Wall Street Journal poll...".

:shrug:

[desi826]

96. They are excusing the numbers...

I mean number. Heh.

The end of the article sounds like "hey, I'm sure this is not the case. He is loved by *everyone* so don't take these numbers seriously."

And why not go to a reputable black organization to find out if this is close to what is really happening in the black community?

Why ask whites to answer about blacks?

You'd ask them if you don't really want to know the truth of the answer to the question.
This is completely typical.
Des

[Gregorian]

52. So that's who the smart Americans are.

[FiveGoodMen]

119. That's what I've thought for some time now.

If you look at groups in terms of who's not getting fooled by Bush, black people are far and away the smartest people in America. No joke. Even before Katrina, they were the least credulous group in the country.

[malaise]

53. Thank you Katrina

You were a wicked hurricane but your ill wind exposed all the scum. The laws of nature are quite amazing.

[happydreams]

54. Looks like Bush's photo--oping Katrina has a reverse effect.

At least I hope so.

[NinetySix]

57. All this means is that NBC/WSJ called Clarence Thomas & Armstrong Williams

How else to account for that anomalous 2%?

[yellowcanine]

65. Pretty good evidence that blacks as a group are smarter than any other

ethnic group, no?

[Digit]

79. I wish others would catch on that actions speak LOUDER than words n/t

[BronxBoy]

108. Only if ...

98% of us Black Americans register and vote!

Getting pissed is only the first step

[erpowers]

66. Overrated Polls

Does anyone here believe that Bush's approval rating was ever that much higher than 2%. Does anyone believe that his approval amoung blacks ever reached 51% after 9/11? I will say that they never polled me after 9/11 or any other time. I would like to know how many black people these polls(pre Katrina polls) actually interviewed. It would be easy to get a number of 51% if you only interview a few people. I think that is what happened after 9/11 or they just interviewed people in places that seemed like the people there would support Bush. I doubt that many people that went to or worked at historically black colleges were included in the previous polls. Do not get me wrong I am happy about this poll overall; however, I do not believe Bush's poll numbers were ever that high amoung black people. I mainly think the polls mislead people for as long as they could.

[pattim]

73. Yes, I do believe those polls.

Polls are generally pretty accurate. Most major polls are within 2% to 4% margin of error (a 2% MoE statistically meaning that there is a 99.5% chance that the actual result is within 2% of your result), and the people polled are by random dialing. Few people at historically black colleges were included, likely, but only because few people (weighted against 300 million) go to them. And if each poll only requires about 1000 responses to achieve a 4% MoE, it is highly unlikely that any one individual American would ever have been polled. I can tell you that <i>I</i> was once polled by Time in 2002, and I of course registered my disapproval.

I do believe that number, just as I believe that 90% of Americans approved of Bush after 9/11. I believe that because I saw it--and because I don't live in an echo chamber like some posters here seem to.

We have no chance of realistically fighting the Republicans if we refuse to use information because it seems surprising to us. Yes, he was at one point popular among blacks. We need to find out why he was before the '08 election to allow us to prepare a strategy to prevent their nominee from similarly misleading any group. We cannot win unless we have reality-based thought.

[erpowers]

86. No Echo Chamber

I do not live in an echo chamber. I am sorry, but Bush was never popular amoung blacks. The media has at times tried to claim Bush is more popular amoung blacks than he is. Only 10% of blacks voted for Bush in 2000 and only 10%-19% voted for him in 2004.

If you study political science or speak to anyone in the political science or polling field they will tell you that you can make a poll say anything you want it to say. All you have to do is sway the questions. I have heard this from two people who work in the political/polling field. In addition, if you do any research on Frank Luntz you will find out that he has gotten into trouble about two time for doing just that in favor of the Republican party and news channel still allowed him to come on their shows and disuss poll results. I seriously doubt that Bush ever had a 51% apporval rating amoung blacks. That does not make me out of touch with reality.

In addition, Democrats do not need polls to win in 2006 and 2008. They just have to talk about real issues and stand up for their beliefs. I contend that the American people are waiting for the Democrats to stand up and give an alternative to the Republican agenda. When Democrats stand up and start calling Bush and other Republican out on wasteful spending and pointing out that tax payer dollars are going to support the rich the Democrat will win. They just do not have to be glued to polls. I think polls are fine, but Democrats do not need them to win.

[PinkyisBlue]

130. Polls

I also dispute the poll that says 90% of Americans approved of the way Bush handled 9/11. I don't believe there are only 10% of us who have disapproved of EVERYTHING this ass has done since stealing the presidency in 2000.

It could be how the poll is worded. If the question re: 9/11 was worded "Did you feel Bush's speech following the attacks on 9/11 was better than his usual verbal garbage"?, I would have had to reply "yes". Would that have put me into the 90% of people who approved of him?

Unfortunately, we need to do more than give an alternative to the Republican agenda. We need to develop a slogan that we are the party of the people, we are the party of integrity, and we are the party of clean campaigns. Then, when the Repubs. act the way they always do, we can call them on it. We have to let the people know that the other side doesn't play fair.

[pattim]

138. The poll question was,

"Generally speaking, do you approve or disapprove of the job George W. Bush is doing as president?" That's Gallup's standard question. Any poll will, as a rule, have the questions asked in the press release. They're freely available. Saying, "oh...well, it might have been oddly worded" is ignorant of reality.

And yes, his approval rating was not only that high, but was universally that high. Every poll showed him at 90% then. Every poll. Every single poll. You cannot find a poll the week after 9/11 that shows him below 80%. I dare you to find a poll that shows him significantly below 90% after 9/11.

[erpowers]

139. Not Ignorant

To say a poll may have been oddly worded is not ignorant of reality. As I said before I have spoken with two people who work in the political/polling field and they both have said that poll can be made to say anything that the person putting forward the poll wants it to say. In addition, to the wording of a poll the numbers of people polled can be a way to manipulate a poll. If you do not believe me just look at the polls used in the Schwarzenegger/Davis poll. USA Today ran with the headline that Schwarzenegger held a 60-40 lead over Davis and the field of people running for California governor. Anyone who inspected to poll as I did would have learned that USA Today used two different sets of numbers and reported them as one. The 60% number came from a group that only contained 586 people while the 40% number came from a group that contained 700+ people. Upon inspection it was clear to see that the high poll numbers for Schwarzenegger came from the group that included smaller numbers of people. I think the polls from 9/11 should be examined by a political science expert to see what other questions people were asked to determine what people may have been really thinking. Even though polls seem simple they are not that simple. It is easy to put out a high number and then fail to tell people that other questions revealed results that put the high number into question. I would also like to restate that Frank Luntz has gotten into trouble with the polling association for doing the things or things similar to what I have just mentioned and mentioned before. Polls can be manipulated. It just takes a person who knows what they are doing or even a person who just makes a mistake.

[pattim]

137. I have studied political science.

I double-major in International Studies and East Asian Studies. Not exactly related, but I've had to do a fair amount of math and polisci as well.

1. Yes, that is true that few voted for him. That means that he was less popular than Gore in 2000 and less popular than Kerry in 2004. Theoretically, by those numbers alone, he could have a 100% approval rating among blacks--100% "approve", with 90% "strongly approving" and therefore voting for Kerry. Obviously, nothing like that happened, but your numbers aren't quite useful. Next, the popularity spike that occured after 9/11 happened after 2000 and faded before 2004. I mean, that's like taking a topographical measurement of Kansas and of Utah and then concluding that Colorado is flat.

2. The questions asked in the 51% poll was, quote, "would you say, generally speaking, that you approve or disapprove of the job George W. Bush is doing as president?" Yeah, real slanted question. Gallup, Pew, and Zogby are not Frank Luntz. Claiming that because a GOP operative does push polls that polling companies do as well is insane.

3. When a poll shows that there is a 99.5% chance that George Bush's approval among blacks is within two percentage points of 51%, and you claim you doubt it citing no other research immediately related to his approval ratings among blacks in mid-September of 2001, then yes, you are out of touch with reality.

4. Finally, simply pointing out that Republicans are bad does not provide Americans with an alternative. That is a terrible strategy. The GOP congressional approval rating is below 30%. You cannot possibly get it any lower. Rather, present a Democratic party with its own ideas, not just denials of Republican ideas.

5. We do need polls to win. Because "winning" is determined by the nationwide poll taken in early November of 2006.

[PinkyisBlue]

142. Number 4

I disagree with number 4. It's all well and good for the Democrats to present their own ideas, which they should do. But, when the other team doesn't play fair, which the Republicans don't, it would serve the Democrats well to point this out over and over again to the voters. Noone is going to listen to a candidate's ideas on an issue when his/her opponent starts a sleazy rumor about him/her. This is what happens time and time again in campaigns and, in fact, a new word, "swift-boating", has been coined to describe it. The Democrats are the party of the people, the party of integrity, and the party of clean campaigns. Call the Repubs. on the sleaze when it shows up.

By the way, I still dispute the statistic that there was a 90% approval rating of Bush following 9/11. There may have been 90% "general approval" of his speech following the attacks on 9/11, and maybe that is what people were responding to. But this faux president has never generated 90% approval of anything else. And one must be a lunatic and idiot to think anything else (just restating your words in previous posts).

[BronxBoy]

111. No he wasn't...

Are you kidding me????? Bush was never popular with Black Folk in this country at all, let alone a majority at some point in time.

[pattim]

136. You see, an assertion

without any statistical backup is useless. He was popular after 9/11. That has been determined with several polls. You do not speak for all blacks, nor do the "black folk" you know.

[truthisfreedom]

68. 2% is the same as 0%. no blacks will be voting for thugs next year.

none.

[superconnected]

69. 2% you mean people like Condoleeza

Sorry black people, yes you have some rich evil people among you too.

45% of whites are FOR Bush. Gee 98% of black people are smarter than nearly half the whites.

[superconnected]

70. BTW, I never thought I'd say this, but...

Thank you Barbara Bush.

[pattim]

72. Pew says it's actually 12.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2005/10/13/BL2005101300885.html
At bottom of article there.

Still abysmal, but not as shockingly abysmal. 2% is an unlikely number--in almost any poll, you can't get numbers lower than 10% for *any* option. A surprisingly large number of people will pick almost at random how they respond to any question--about 20%. You would be very, very, very hard-pressed to ever find any poll result below 10% for <i>anything</i> short of "Do you approve of child molestation?"

[LibDemAlways]

74. Repukes don't care. This frees them

up to go unapologetically after the white racists who stayed away from the polls because they saw chimp getting cozy with Powell and Rice. Expect to hear more statements like Bennett's and repuke gatherings that could be mistaken for KKK rallies.

[gauguin57]

76. To the African-Americans who voted for Bush because of gay marriage

(remember them? and how frustrated we were with them as they were interviewed on TV news night after night in 2004?)

Well ... WE FRIGGIN' TOLD YOU SO! WE TOLD YOU that Bush didn't have your interests at heart. That the Democratic party is the party that wants to support and help the African-American community. And hells bells, you still wanted to vote for Bush because you didn't like to see same-sex couples kissing on television.

And now, you're only polling at 2 percent approval rating. Next time, friggin' LISTEN to us!

Get OVER the gay-marriage issue, come BACK to the fold, and we'll treat you right!

[IndyOp]

77. Immediately after Katrina - the AfAm approval was around 30% -

Something else is happening -- I've heard Chuck D on Air America refer to discussions among AfAm community of the * admin having very dark plans.

The diff between * approval (45% for Whit & 2% for AfAm) is more than thinking & feeling differently about what happened during Katrina or what is happening in Iraq.

Something else is happening.

Tomorrow morning: Millions More March

[flying_wahini]

78. I can hear it now in '08

I just have a feeling that the repukes will put Condi on the ticket and they think that will appease the African-American voters.... "after all, they won't vote against one of their own....."

[Old Vet]

82. 2% doesnt mean shit if they cant vote, Broke my heart............

watching all those african americans sitting in the rain last election , Being turned down to vote for so many corrupt reasons.URGHHHH

[Barkley]

118. No Condi in '08 after she bought those shoes when Blacks were dying

and then had the nerve to say that race had nothing to with the Katrina response.

Black people overwhelimingly voted their pocket books (like white people use to do).

Blacks were right in 2000 and 2004 about Bush; Bush in not in their best interest.

[Rainscents]

81. Well, lets see, if you give + or - 2% margine, it can be 0%.

[Serial Mom]

84. With a error rate of plus/minus 3% the true rating could be -1%

Hahahahahaha!

[connecticut yankee]

85. Yes, but will they vote?

Approval ratings mean nothing, unless they translate to action.

We have to work to get out the vote of ANYONE who disapproves of the way the Repukes are running the country.

[slybacon9]

87. "I'm a uniter... not a divider"

wow... we haven't been this united since the civil war.

[Serial Mom]

88. and he has made Iraq now so divided it will end up in civil war

he's managed to divide two country's populations!

[classysassy]

89. Among that 2%

Don"Kingfish"King sez"yo great leader us crooks gotta stick together"

[Left Turn]

90. Wow

Reaching a level of support this low among any racial or demographic group is a terrible sign, and shows you aren't even coming close to representing all of America.

[go west young man]

91. I noticed from reading that article they use exit polls from the

2004 election to make a point about black support for Bush. Are those the same exit polls that the MSM discredited the night that Bush suddenly got a huge swing from evangelical christians while the computers crashed that were tallying the votes?

[NobleCynic]

92. 2%? That number seems a little to hopeful to me...

As big of a disaster as Katrina was for Bush with blacks, 2% still seems a little optimistic to me. It is still a good sign, as in all probability that number is under 10%, but statistically it is hard to buy this number. I certainly hope it is accurate, but it doesn't quite feel right.

[ClintonTyree]

94. And bush would like to thank the Rices, Keyes and Blackwells...

for their support. Without them, he'd have nothing.

Something tells me there is going to be a HUGE Black voter turnout in both '06 and '08. Now, all we have to do is make sure they have a place to vote and that those votes are COUNTED!

[twaddler01]

104. YES!

We definately need the votes! :thumbsup:

[0007]

97. I guess Condi & Colin are in the tank with the rest of the fishes, 'eh?

[W2Hague]

101. Black people smarter than white people

This just proves the point beyond a shadow of doubt that black people are intrinsically smarter than white people.

2% approval! I fucking love it!

On a separate but related issue:

Please take a look at "Criminals With Badges" and post a coment if you care to:

http://www.bruindesign.com


Peace
D.L. Bruin

[Barkley]

122. Blacks vote their pocket books (like whites used to do).

Blacks were correct in 1992, 2000 and 2004, the Bushes are not in their best interest.

From 1992 - 2000 Black unemployment fell, poverty fell, home ownership rose.

By 2000, the 7.58% unemployment for Blacks was a record low; they'd be stupid to vote for Bush.

Since 2000 many of these statistics have reversed, especially poverty rates for Blacks.

Appointing Condi and Colin doesn't pay bills. A good job does.

[twaddler01]

102. this is no surprise but

what is a surprise is the 38% of the others (which include whites) give him their approval....

[slybacon9]

105. correction twaddler..

45% of whites give him their approval. yeah, its even worse!

[ginnyinWI]

109. The Black vote for Kerry was 88%

So another 10% of the voters bailed on *. I would imagine these were from conservative churches and voting on the social wedge issues.

[Barkley]

113. It was probably higher if all Black votes were counted

Black voted overwhelmingly in their best economic interest and history has proven that their assessment about Bush in 2000 and 2004 was correct.

Appointing Colin and Condi is just icing; what about the cake -- the unemployment rate for blacks; the povertly level for blacks; discrimination against blacks etc.

Appointing high profile Blacks doesn't pay bills for the average Black worker.

[dwp6577]

112. I could have posted this under almost any thread on this site...

It's very obvious that the neo-con, criminal boneheads are going down in flames and desparate, but 2 things really worry me:

1. I think we can all agree that they won't go down without a fight,
but are they willing to take the USA down with them (martial law, staged homeland attack, etc.)? If so, is there anything we can do to prevent it?

2. Are the Dems smart, forward-thinking, and unselfish enough to rally 1 voice for the good of the USA?

My retired Father, born and raised in the USA, is selling his property and leaving the country...He's not optimistic.

[twaddler01]

117. 2 very excellent questions

I am considering moving to Canada myself...anyone else?

[Prajna Sword]

121. Moving to Canada

Funny, I just had lunch with a friend who has spent lots of money to go to Canada. She has a place in Halifax, but no job yet. But at least she has free health care!

I think you point to a wonderful way of helping Europe deal with their declining birth rates. Why not import expatriot Americans? We're hard working, and we probably would make model immigrants.

[Barkley]

120. Bush's position on Row vs. Wade

He doesn't care how they got out of New Orleans.

[Mistahkleeen]

124. 2%????That many???What da hail.

That's still to damn many of us for my money.

[bejammin075]

127. It could be -1, with the M.O.E.

Heh!

[G_j]

135. or less

2% is within the margin of error :-)

[paineinthearse]

132. Mistahkleeen

Welcome to DU

:hi:

[rpannier]

140. His supporters are probably

newspaper reporters the white house pays and those members of the american taliban that reap profits from government funds.