G.I.'s and Syrians in Tense Clashes on Iraqi Border

[cal04]

A series of clashes in the last year between American and Syrian troops, including a prolonged firefight this summer that killed several Syrians, has raised the prospect that cross-border military operations may become a dangerous new front in the Iraq war, according to current and former military and government officials.

The firefight, between Army Rangers and Syrian troops along the border with Iraq, was the most serious of the conflicts with President Bashar al-Assad's forces, according to American and Syrian officials. It illustrated the dangers facing American troops as Washington tries to apply more political and military pressure on a country that President Bush last week labeled one of the "allies of convenience" with Islamic extremists. He also named Iran.

One of Mr. Bush's most senior aides, who declined to be identified because of the sensitivity of the subject, said that so far American military forces in Iraq had moved right up to the border to cut off the entry of insurgents, but he insisted that they had refrained from going over it. But other officials, who say they got their information in the field or by talking to Special Operations commanders, say that as American efforts to cut off the flow of fighters have intensified, the operations have spilled over the border - sometimes by accident, sometimes by design.

Some current and former officials add that the United States military is considering plans to conduct special operations inside Syria, using small covert teams for cross-border intelligence gathering.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/15/politics/15syria.html?hp&ex=1129348800&en=636231786980e5e8&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[Barrett808]

1. Provocations. n/t

[Skittles]

2. a friend of mine who recently returned from reserve duty in Iraq

says the "real" battle isn't in Iraq, it's at the Syrian border

[bemildred]

3. Poland attacks German radio station. nt

[GliderGuider]

4. Syria = Laos

The parallels get more obvious every day.

[LynnTheDem]

5. America NEVER EVER went into Cambodia! Whoever says we did

is a dirty rotten LIAR!

[Beam Me Up]

6. Now, now. Do stay calm. I'm certain that all your post is missing is

one of these:

:sarcasm:

[LynnTheDem]

25. NO WAY WE NEVER EVER went into Cambodia not even for lunch!!!

We didn't we didn't we didn't!!!

Heh.

[txaslftist]

46. Well, there was that one day we went over for appetizers...

[daleo]

7. operations have spilled over the border,... sometimes by design. n/t

[sabra]

8. U.S., Syria border clashes reported

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20051014-114805-1584r

U.S., Syria border clashes reported

WASHINGTON, Oct. 14 (UPI) -- The Bush administration is reportedly considering incursions into Syria as it tries to stem the flow of arms and fighters for the Iraqi insurgency.

The New York Times says U.S. and Syrian forces have already been involved in skirmishes on the border, including one this summer that left several Syrians dead.

One official told the Times the United States has taken the struggle right up to the border but not beyond. Other officials said U.S. forces have entered Syria both by accident and design.

Sources said the administration held a high-level discussion Oct. 1 on Syria and on putting pressure on President Bashar Assad. They told the Times President Bush has not selected a specific strategy yet.

[saltpoint]

9. A U.S. attack on Syria will further alienate world opinion from

American foreign policy, and will likely deepen the impression the world has of us as remorseless brutes shoving our weight around.

George W. Bush would, at that point, have a Congressional revolt on his hands. If it stays at the "border skirmish" level, he might get away with it. If it escalates, though, he's burnt toast.

[MuseRider]

10. One would hope. n/t

[Itchinjim]

11. Anybody remember Cambodia? Laos?

Welcome to Iraq Nam.

[ElectroPrincess]

12. This news is frightening ... yes I remember. :(

[mcctatas]

13. All we need is the CIA running drugs, and the cycle would be complete...

I am so ashamed of our leaders, I could just spit!

[dkofos]

30. What do you think they are doing in Afganistan

[VegasWolf]

22. Yes, I remember too. This asshole is getting us in deeper and deeper.

[The Roux Comes First]

14. No Fool Like an Old Fool

Close monitoring essential. As per another post, recall lies in prior template for this occupation, i.e. Cambodia and Laos, and how many lies the authorities told. For some of us naifs that was quite an awakening.

We don't get fooled again!

[lovuian]

15. here we go folks heading into WWIII thats what Bush wants

so he can take over this country!!! Syria here we come ready or not!!!

[daleo]

16. You knew this was coming

Probably murdering Syrians to goad them into a response that would become a causus belli. Bush wants another war so he can be war prez again, and all his troubles will go away (he thinks).

[KerryOn]

17. I saw an interview the other night with the president of Syria.

He was asked why he could not prevent insurgents from crossing the boarder from Syria into Iraq? The presidents answer was something like: "It is very difficult to control the boarder. Just look at the US boarder with Mexico."

[populistdriven]

18. I know a soldier who was in the first attack on Baghdad, they had orders

to advance on to Syria and keep going but were ordered back at the last minute. Syria has always been in the war plans.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pinniped]

21. Enjoy your short stay.

.

[VegasWolf]

23. It is in our interest to abandon our interests in Israel. nt

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scurrilous]

24. LOL

Late night comedy gold. :thumbsup:

[HuffleClaw]

26. 'clashes' my foot. deliberate criminal provocations.

i've been thinking they will attempt to blame syria for the failure of their 'constitution' in iraq. they've sure hinted at it enough. it would be a nice little 'wag the dog' distraction for sure, and they could 'retaliate' with some pretty air campaign on cue (the day fitzgerald does his bit) too. its tailor-made for 'em.

[Voltaire99]

45. Yes, I read it that way, too.

They're like serial killers--serial imperialists, if you will.

In the shell game of the "war on terror," their interests are served by always having a moving target. It makes our nation no safer, but it allows them to

a) distract from the most recent failure
b) stir up new patriotic fervor (albeit short-lived) about a new war
c) conquer more territory
d) make their cronies richer

Sweet deal! And I see the sad, sold-out Democratic Party going along again for the ride.

[thebigidea]

27. "who declined to be identified because of the sensitivity of the subject"

fucking warmongering coward! What a goddamn weasel. More like he declined to be identified because of being a known liar with zero credibility with anyone other than the good ol' enabling liberal media.

[Earth_First]

28. I thought that the "flow" of foreign fighters was less than 10%

...of the insurgency:

The 'myth' of Iraq's foreign fighters

Report by US think tank says only '4 to 10' percent of insurgents are foreigners.

By Tom Regan | csmonitor.com

The US and Iraqi governments have vastly overstated the number of foreign fighters in Iraq, and most of them don't come from Saudi Arabia, according to a new report from the Washington-based Center for Strategic International Studies (CSIS). According to a piece in The Guardian, this means the US and Iraq "feed the myth" that foreign fighters are the backbone of the insurgency. While the foreign fighters may stoke the insurgency flames, they make up only about 4 to 10 percent of the estimated 30,000 insurgents.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0923/dailyUpdate.html

[SOS]

31. Exactly correct

Even this Judy Miller/WMD-style neocon propaganda being passed off as "news" on the front page of the New York Times mentions this fact. You just have to turn to page A9 and plough through 15 column inches before you get to:

"One former United States official with access to recent intelligence on the insurgency added that American intelligence reports had concluded that 95 percent of the insurgents were Iraqi."

So 95% are Iraqi. Of the remaining 5% most are from Saudi Arabia.

""Martyrs" in Iraq Mostly Saudi"

70% of suicide bombers in Iraq are from Saudi Arabia:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/14/AR2005051401270.html

Saudi Arabia is not mentioned in the Times propaganda.

This article is not news. It is White House disinformation that fits with the NYT editorial position. It's almost funny that the expression "palestinian rejectionists" appears in both the "news" article and on the editorial page.

[TexasLawyer]

33. yes, yes, yes!!!

and of course the NYT throws in a nodding reference to this study at the tail end of its extremely long article, the subtitle of which is "New Steps Considered as US Raises Pressures to Halt Insurgents."

This is actively misleading-- shades of war-pimp Judith Miller!

[SOS]

34. Seems that David Sanger

is Judy's temporary replacement at the NYT neocon BS department.

David sanger Takes a Dive (re: British memo) June 13, 2005

"Prewar British Memo Says War Decision Wasn't Made"

http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/2005-3_archives/001071.html

[TexasLawyer]

36. It does seem so, doesn't it!

[Toots]

29. I thought their plan was the flypaper strategy

I thought they told us they wanted all the terrorist in the world to come to Iraq so they could fight them over there. Now they are telling us they don't want them there but want to go into another country to find them. Tell me why anybody should believe anything that comes out of their mouths. They are serial LIARS and that is not going to change anytime soon.

[struggle4progress]

32. Floatin a trial balloon for escalatin the war ... eom

[lovuian]

35. This was how it was in Iraq!!! We bombed and attacked earlier

than it was announced!!! We are going to war with Syria!!! If not already there!!!

[sabra]

37. we are already there - at a lower level. hopefully it doesn't got to the

next level...

[Judi Lynn]

38. US troops clashed with Syrian soldiers along border: report

US troops clashed with Syrian soldiers along border: report

WASHINGTON, Oct 15 (AFP) - A series of clashes in the last year between American and Syrian troops, including a prolonged firefight this summer that killed several Syrians, has raised the prospect that cross-border military operations may become a dangerous new front in the Iraq war, The New York Times reported Saturday.

Citing unnamed current and former military and government officials, the newspaper said the firefight, between Army Rangers and Syrian troops along the border with Iraq, was the most serious of the clashes with President Bashar al-Assad's forces.

It illustrated the dangers facing American troops as Washington tries to apply more political and military pressure on a country that President George W. Bush last week labeled one of the "allies of convenience" with Islamic extremists, the report said.

One of Bush's most senior aides, who declined to be identified, said that so far US military forces in Iraq had moved right up to the border to cut off the entry of insurgents, but he insisted that they had refrained from going over it, The Times said.
(snip/...)

http://www.politicalgateway.com/news/read.html?id=5103

[Voltaire99]

39. Our war criminals can't stop, can they?

It's like an eating disorder--they've got to have more.

[mallard]

41. Re: what's all this takin on Syrian border patrol?

Seems like it would be all the wannabe insurgents caught between countries who would provide the most likely clashes - and fair targets they would be. Maybe there aren't enough of them - yet.

Here's defintitely another invitation for a fight and all it implies about broken trust. Syria id the enemy Sria is the enmey Syria is the enemy. Proof is coming soon.

Now, Asad has to go to the UN for help.

[zippy890]

40. Syria the Cambodia of this war

"so far US military forces in Iraq had moved right up to the border to cut off the entry of insurgents, but he insisted that they had refrained from going over it"

Like Vietnam, more and more, they can't control that border

Look to hear reports of air sorties over Syria -

This war is F***ked, bring the troops home, get the military out of there.

[cassiepriam]

42. Is this how it starts? The expansion of the war into Syria?

[oneinok]

43. Nazi Germany had a problem with Poland.

Nazi Germany had a problem with Poland.

America has a problem with Syria.

Here we go again.

[cassiepriam]

44. Yep, the beginning of WW III?? Mission Accomplished indeed.