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Investigation into levee failure uncovers culprit (17th St. Canal)

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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-14-05 11:53 PM
Original message
Investigation into levee failure uncovers culprit (17th St. Canal)
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. It sounds like someone didn't do their job in this case
These pilings should have been sunk a lot deeper than they were (in the story they were anchored in peat moss). It is hard to believe such a mistake wasn't covered up at the time. Maybe some money changed hands. The records should be examined back to when the pilings were poured and they were inspected. Hundreds, probably thousands died as a result of this.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yeah--how about this?
Bea said that while the investigators have theorized the Corps missed the peat layer in soil tests before the wall was built, that data they now have shows the peat would be hard to miss.

"The soil profile that we've got in front of us is showing that peat layer is large in extent, not narrow. They are mapping it between multiple borings. My suspicion, or fear, that they had missed it between two borings is not justifiable. It looks like it's about a thousand feet wide. That used to be a swamp. We built levees and cut canals in it, but never went in there and took out the peat."
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. It is pretty amazing, and shocking
I read that to mean "they knew it was just peat moss - all the borings show it as peat moss - there is no excuse that this is some kind of unpredictable zone".

I would sure like to know when these borings were taken. Lots of other areas could be the same - by now some kind of ground penetrating radar should be able to find waterlogged peat moss, I should think.
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lithiumbomb Donating Member (217 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. not even radar necessary
Actually nothing high tech would have been required to discover this. The soil test borings they're doing now is a pretty simple arrangement - ram a hollow pipe down to X distances, retrieve samples at those points. They did it the same way 50 years ago as they do today. Sounds like either they ignored data, or just didn't take deep enough samples when designing the wall.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I suspect "ignored the data" is more likely
Maybe a little bribe changed hands, maybe just a decision to hope for the best, because doing a proper job would cost money.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Thanks so much for this post! Nominated.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. from the link:
The Lakefront area used to be a swamp, and was filled over the decades as development advanced northward toward Lake Pontchartrain. But the soft swamp and river soils - layers of mud, peat, sand and silt - remain under the surface and can pose problems for those trying to anchor structures in them. The normal solution, engineers say, is to drill piles as deep as possible so that they go all the way through weak layers and are more firmly anchored.

The contractor who built the 17th Street Canal reported problems drilling the sheet pilings in the soil. Segments of the wall leaned slightly when the concrete was poured, according to a legal ruling in a contract dispute over the matter. An administrative law judge ruled that was due to the unusual bracing system used to build the structure rather than unexpected soil conditions.

Bea said that while the investigators have theorized the Corps missed the peat layer in soil tests before the wall was built, that data they now have shows the peat would be hard to miss.

"The soil profile that we've got in front of us is showing that peat layer is large in extent, not narrow. They are mapping it between multiple borings. My suspicion, or fear, that they had missed it between two borings is not justifiable. It looks like it's about a thousand feet wide. That used to be a swamp. We built levees and cut canals in it, but never went in there and took out the peat."


That administrative law judge should be hauled out to rebuild the levees.

:argh:
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Or be put on trial for negligence.
This should really be examined thoroughly.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Check this out: Lawsuits are piling up
Edited on Sat Oct-15-05 01:52 AM by Carolab
http://www.nola.com/weblogs/print.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tporleans/archives/print083278.html

Orleans Breaking News


Wednesday, September 28, 2005

The people v. Hurricane Katrina
Storm-related lawsuits spring up in courts


By Mark Schleifstein
Staff writer


Class-action lawsuits stemming from Hurricane Katrina are beginning to pile up in U.S. District Court in New Orleans, as lawyers jockey to stake a claim in what could be a years-long series of legal battles over who to blame for damages stemming from the storm.


Plaintiff's attorney Daniel Becnel Jr. of Reserve has filed what amounts to a placeholder suit aimed at assigning blame for the failure of the 17th Street Canal levee wall, initially naming Boh Bros. Construction Co. of New Orleans and a small Florida construction company as defendants.

In a class action, lawyers file suit on behalf of a group of individuals who are representative of those injured by an action. Such suits ask the court to include all others who are similarly affected.

Becnel said there's a good chance Boh Bros. will be dropped from the canal levee lawsuit, as company officials have said it was hired only to dredge the bottom of the 17th Street Canal. The company that built the east levee wall along the canal will be added to the suit when it is identified, Becnel said.

{more at link}
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
7. The Corps of Engineers has known about this for decades
http://www.stormingmedia.us/34/3418/A341804.html

Performance of Levee Underseepage Controls: A Critical Review
Authors: Thomas F. Wolff; ENGINEER RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT CENTER VICKSBURG MS GEOTECHNICAL AND STRUCTURES LAB

Abstract: The Federal Government through the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) has a large investment in flood-control levees. Where such levees are built on pervious foundations, seepage beneath the levee (underseepage) during floods can produce pressure and flow conditions capable of initiating subsurface erosion leading to levee failure. Two adverse phenomena may occur; one is sand boils which involves the movement of subsurface sand to the surface by flowing water, and the other is heaving which involves the upward movement of a relatively impervious surface layer resulting from subsurface water pressures in excess of its weight. To prevent such occurrences, the USACE has developed a set of procedures to analyze underseepage conditions on a site-specific basis and a set of procedures to design underseepage control measures. For the most part, these procedures were developed in the 194Os and 1950s. Intensive construction of control measures was accomplished in the 195Os and l96Os. Several moderately large and major floods have provided data from which the validity of the procedures and the security of the constructed system can be inferred.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. So we have known what to do for 50 some odd years?
incredible. Thos damn socialist in Holland wouls never trust their country to such shoddy construction.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. someone probably assumed that the subsurface testing had been done
assume: Make an ASS out of U and ME.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
11. All that was needed
was a full concrete spillway like those in Los Angeles...been saying this for weeks...
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
12. I thought I also heard something about a mysteriously "loose" barge filled
with cement which drifted into one of the levees, causing most of the damage the day after the storm? According to what I heard, no one could explain how the barge got there...and the curious nature of it's solid "cement" contents.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. this barge?
Edited on Sun Oct-16-05 02:24 PM by pitohui
it's the industrial canal area in the 9th ward, if so, not too hard to explain how it got there, if you looked at the other pix i posted from that area, the water rushed in so hard that it swept away entire houses, container vessels, etc. as toys



here's the container vessels:



i don't own these pix, while i have permission to use them, please don't re-use them elsewhere on the internet, thanks

if you go to google.maps you can find the barge by going along the industrial canal & hitting the "katrina" tab

you will also see entire trains, boats, houses, buildings, etc. moved by force of water

no need for conspiracy theories, barges always get loose in such storms, the break was not caused by the barge, rather the break that flooded in & destroyed the lower 9th ward was also the cause of the barge being moved onto the wrong side of the levee

you do not have to believe me, i will simply ask you to check out pix of gulfport container terminal w. the copa casino barge on top of it

these storms are stronger than puny human hopes & katrina was throwing around barges like baby toys, this is why all casinos on the gulf coast were thrown around & destroyed, they are HUGE barges & no one wished to see them harmed

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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-05 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
14. Any signs of the explosives?
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. No mention of those. Obviously this is still being investigated.
I imagine as lawsuits progress more will be known, or vice versa.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-05 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. there were no explosives
don't spread rumors, they are not helpful to those of us who live here & are trying to re-build

thanks
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