Rice praises quiet day of voting in Iraq

[sabra]

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/12912223.htm

Rice praises quiet day of voting in Iraq

Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Saturday praised what appeared to be a peaceful day of voting in Iraq on a new constitution for the country.

"All that I've seen is pictures on television so far which looks as if the Iraqis are exercising their right, they are doing so in a peaceful manner, they are doing so enthusiastically," Rice told reporters as she flew from Moscow to London.

"That's been our principal concern, that the Iraqis have this opportunity to go and voice their views on this constitution. That's the way this was set up ... and that's what they are doing," said Rice, who was discussing Iran's nuclear program with British and Russian leaders.

[LynnTheDem]

1. I'm surprised, I didn't think Rice approved of women being stoned to death

But then, women are legally stoned to death STILL in Afghanistan, and Rice calls Afghanistan a "success", so why am I surprised?

[Enhancer]

2. I've seen better soviet propaganda, circa 1950s.

No really I have. I understand it though. With hundreds of international news channels, vast and differentiating internet news media sources, they have to make their propaganda so bluntly ridiculous.

[madrchsod]

3. it should be quiet

no electric power do to the sabotage of the grid and of course the banning of motor vehicles for the last few days...dam that condo sure is smart!

[cantstandbush]

4. Does this mean that the numbers were down?

The lines never looked as long as previously.

[Geo55]

5. You can but they pulled every resource available

<snip>
More than 100,000 Iraqi police and soldiers will protect the more than 6000 polling stations over the day, with US and other foreign troops on standby.

But the tight security was not enough to stop a roadside bomb from exploding on al-Madhif street in al-Amiriya area, targeting an Iraqi police patrol stationed near a polling centre.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/8EAA8BCF-212A-4F68-9F5D-64A253094935.htm

[struggle4progress]

6. In Sunni stronghold, turnout for Iraq’s .. referendum is sparse

In Sunni stronghold, turnout for Iraq’s constitutional referendum is sparse

An estimated 2,000 people vote; Marines had hoped for 40,000

By Gordon Trowbridge
Times staff writer


RAMADI, Iraq — A rush to join Iraq’s fledgling democratic process, hoped for and predicted by U.S. officials, failed to materialize here on Saturday, as voters in this violence-plagued provincial capital largely stayed home during Iraq’s constitutional referendum.

In the operations center of 3rd Battalion, 7th Marine Regiment, which patrols about two-thirds of Ramadi, Marine officers were unsure whether insurgent threats, scattered violence as Election Day opened or Sunni Muslim rejection of the U.S.-led political process was to blame.

But there was clearly disappointment that predictions of significant voter turnout, fed by pledges from many residents to vote in hopes of defeating the draft constitution, proved too optimistic.

The Marine unit’s early estimates put total turnout at the eight Ramadi precincts in its sector at about 2,000. That number included about 700 votes by Iraqi soldiers based in the city, and an unknown number from election workers. <snip>

http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1175807.php

[Psephos]

7. Am I the only person on this thread who wants this referendum to succeed?

Seems like the sooner they get a functioning country there, the sooner we pull out.

Just a thought....

Peace.

[hadrons]

8. except that the referendum WON'T do that ....

[Psephos]

9. Didn't say it would...

but it does move things one more click down the road.

Peace

[LynnTheDem]

11. Yes down the road to an Iranian-style Islamic state.

Complete with stoning of adulterous women. Can't wait!

:sarcasm:

[Psephos]

14. Your old posts are interesting. Here's what I found.

No independent protest about women stoned under Sharia in Nigeria.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2116540.stm

No independent protest about women stoned under Sharia in Afghanistan.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/005884.php

No independent protest about honor killings under Sharia of women in Pakistan.
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/12/11/pakistan.women/

No independent protest about honor killings under Sharia of women in Jordan.
http://www.pbs.org/speaktruthtopower/rana.html

No protest about about women stoned under Sharia in Iran *except* when you were proving a political point about Iraq.
http://www.iran-e-azad.org/stoning/women.html

No protest about the legal excusal of honor killing of women in Syria, Morocco, and Haiti, to name a few countries where such practices are codified.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honour_Killing#Locations

Some might wonder if such women are your chief concern. I'm not saying they're not, just that you seem to have other agendas.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_adul1.htm

My chief concern is for us to disengage from Iraq. I didn't post to protest future hypothetical stoning of women in Iraq. A reading of the constitution does not lead one to expect that, anyway. Perhaps you are unaware of the diminished role of theocratic law under the draft that went on the referendum. You also sidestep the frightening fact that should the insurgency have its way, its explicitly stated aim is to establish a caliphate, a fundamentalist Muslim government that would make Taliban rule in Afghanistan look postively liberal. I'm not sure what will happen to women under the constitution, but I'm very sure what will happen to them under a caliphate.

Now, to get back to the original subject. My post was to say that if one is actually interested in seeing us get the fuck out of Iraq and stay out, then Iraq will need a stable government. That's the quickest real-world end I can see to this mess. Adopting a decent constitution is better than doing nothing and so, continuing ad infinitum under an occupation government.

These are my opinions, nothing more, nothing less, nothing personal.

[LynnTheDem]

24. I'm focused on IRAQ, if you don't mind too much. See, I have family

currently Iraqmired. So pardon me so very much that I haven't posted to the stoning of women in Timbuktoo et al. Or not.

And a reading of the "constitution" most certainly DOES suggest exactly that,a s does al Sistani's own spokesman speaking about stoning women for adultery being the only possible punishment.

But you feel free, dear, to "wonder" all you like. ;)

As long as we are in Iraq, Iraq will never have a stable government.

These are my opinions, nothing more, nothing less, nothing personal.

[Skittles]

12. down WHAT road

come on

[thebigidea]

15. you may be one of the few who believes this "referendum" is anything...

... more than a meaningless stalling tactic, about as relevant to life for everyday Iraqis as the much ballyhooed "transfer of sovereignty" - yeah, that went so fucking well. They loved Allawi, and i'm sure they'll love whatever new gang of puppets front for the Bush admin.

The over a hundred thousand cyborg-looking soldiers stomping all over their country and pointing rifles at their grandmas might provide them with the teensiest bit of suspicion about the validity of this "ongoing political process" that has absolutely nothing to do with our founding fathers. Unless you want to look in the mirror and realize we just might be the redcoats this time.

"Oh no, are you saying that mythical Zarqawi is George Washington?" I hear someone squeal dramatically.

Of course not, I haven't seen any mythical cherry trees chopped down so I'm not going to sing anyone's praises. There are no good guys in this scenario, just a bundle of hell brought to us by a filthy monkey.

[Psephos]

16. Whatever. Sorry to interrupt your rant, but my concern is getting us out.

Iraq is a mess, and we need to be out of there. They need a stable government before that will happen. A constitution is a step in that direction.

I understand that you are torqued up about Iraq but when you post a reply to what you imagine I said rather than what I actually said, and then lace it with sarcasm and anger, your effectiveness as a persuader and rhetorician declines.

Peace.

[thebigidea]

18. who am I trying to persuade?

I am just amused that anyone falls for the Bushies' line about this glorious referendum. Purple thumbs all around! Thinking that anything those dolts are cooking up in the green zone has anything to do with stability in Iraq just strikes me as funny. Sorry!

I'm not trying to win votes, convince anyone, or build a stable Iraq to create a wave of democracy that will sweep the middle east.

So I think i'll just continue using this site as an outlet for my sarcasm and anger. Apologies if it gets in the way of such good progress. Surely there are others eager to carry the white man's burden.

I'm not equipped with the kind of Tom Friedman moustache needed to pontificate about what's best for Iraqi democracy anyway!

[Psephos]

19. Awesome; we were running low on sound and fury

[rayofreason]

21. You are not alone...

...But you are certainly in the distinct minority.

I thought that being a progressive meant that the establishment of rule of law and consensual government among other peoples was a goal, not something to be derided with cynicism.

I, for one, applaud the Iraqis' move toward a constitutional regime. Like you, I believe that the sooner the Iraqi get a representative government in place, the sooner will come the day that US troops leave. I did not view the last minute haggeling between the parties as harbinger of civil war. I viewed it as some of the mess you must endure when competing positions come to the table and the differences are resolved with negotiation, not gunfire. But too many here were only too happy to jump on that and say "See, I told you so! They are cracking up at the seams. Civil War!" When the international Left abandons progressive political parties in Iraq and makes common cause with head-chopping, mysogenistic, sectarian thugs who wish to impose a theocratic, fascist regime, and even romanticizes them as "freedom fighters", you know that something has gone deeply wrong with what should be a clear-cut moral evaluation of the situation.

[Psephos]

22. rayofreason, you are a true progressive

As usual, your post is thoughtful and insightful.

Peace.

[Zhade]

28. What is progressive about wanting a theocracy?

This "constitution" enshrines Sharia Islamic law as a major pillar of secular law.

It makes Islam the official state religion.

IT ALLOWS FOR PUNISHING FEMALE ADULTERERS BY STONING.

How in the name of all that is good and decent is supporting that PROGRESSIVE?

[LynnTheDem]

25. You appalud...and have you READ it? No of course you haven't.

Well that's ok, coz neither have most IRAQIS. But WOW what a step! What PROGRESS! :sarcasm: The only people applauding this shit are those who don't have a frigging clue.

"thugs who wish to impose a theocratic, fascist regime"...yes, thanks to the "constitution" that YOU APPLAUD, guess what!

MOST IRAQIS HAVE NOT EVEN SEEN THE CONSTITUTION THEY'RE TO VOTE ON.

Gee what "PROGRESS"!

It's expected to pass, because the VIOLENCE will keep Iraqis away from the voting booths.

Gee what "PROGRESS"!

Iraqis vote on 'invisible' constitution

Insurgency hampers distribution of crucial document as millions prepare to go to the polls this week...
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article318225.ece

2000 Americans dead...for an IRANIAN-STYLE ISLAMIC STATE of repressed women in IRAQ;

"Unmaking Iraq, the Constitutional Process Gone Awry,"

The Iraqi constitution as written will push that country toward full-scale civil war, a report from a nonprofit organization warns. Melissa Block talks with Robert Malley, director of the International Crisis Group's Middle East program.
http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?l=1&id=3703

"It may well be more of a prelude to civil war than a step forward," Anthony H. Cordesman said in an analysis for the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

The Bush administration endorsed Iraq's proposed new constitution yesterday, but analysts warned that some provisions can be interpreted to undermine everything from the distribution of political power to a secular judiciary, from women's rights to fair distribution of oil revenue.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/24/AR2005082402217_pf.html

There are, however, significant doubts about the religious nature of the new constitution...

"It is written by Islamists for Islamists"

Zainab and her friend Zahra, 37, are both deeply apprehensive about the effect the constitution will have on women's rights. Since "liberation" by US-led forces they have seen the growth in the power of Muslim clerics and the diminishing power of choice.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article318609.ece

The Iraqi constitution's downside for women
http://www.juancole.com/2005/09/iraqi-constitutions-downside-for-women.html

Iraqi Women May Lose Basic Rights Under New Constitution
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0723-06.htm

Iraq's Draft Constitution Is Said to Deepen Dividewill likely trigger civil war...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/26/AR2005092601442.html

UN issues warning over Iraq constitution

There are fears that Iraq's draft Constitution, due to go a referendum next week, could trigger the break up of the country and even spark a bloody civil war.
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2005/s1473209.htm

Americans Die for Sharia (ISLAMIC STATE) in Iraq

It's so Abdul the Iraqi can have six wives. It's so women can be forced to wear the abaya, alcohol can be banned, and sharia law – Muslim religious beliefs as interpreted by a council of mullahs and "grand ayatollahs" – can become the law of the land. As one of the Shi'ite clerics' representatives put it the other day:

"We don't want to see equality between men and women because according to Islamic law, men should have double of women. This is written in the Quran and according to God."
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=4774

Iraq "constitution"...A Lose-Lose Referendum;

Five days before Saturday's referendum on Iraq's proposed constitution, the U.S. foreign policy elite appears both anxious and gloomy, increasingly worried that win or lose, the process will bring Iraq one step closer to civil war and, with it, the possible destabilisation of the wider region.

"We've looked for the constitution to be a national pact, and the perception now is that it's not," Gen. George Casey, the commander of U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq, told lawmakers here last week. "Now this constitution has come out, and it didn't come out as a national compact that we thought it was going to be."

Makiya believes the combination of violence and the constitution threatens "the very idea and very possibility of an Iraq".

Barbara Bodine, a veteran diplomat and Middle East expert currently at Harvard University, whose appointment to a senior CPA post after the invasion was blocked by neo-conservatives in the Pentagon, echoed that view.

"The United States has 'Lebanonised' Iraq. It is ironic that a structure that worked so poorly for Lebanon is now the template for Iraq."
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1012-03.htm

LUCKY Iraqi women! STONING FOR ADULTERY coming soon!

La Repubblica: "Putting it in a nutshell, there will be no more stoning of adulterous women, is that it?"

Al-Yasari, cleric al Sistani's spokesman:

"Well, it depends. In the case of married women whom eye witnesses can accuse of betraying their husbands, the punishment can only be that. But in any event there will be very few exemplary sentences, and they will always be issued after a fair trial."

Welcome to "liberated" Iraq – that’s what our troops are dying for, and that’s what you’re paying for. It’s medievalism with a "democratic" face.

http://www.iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/39110

STONING WOMEN! CIVIL WAR! VOTE for a "constitution" you've never read! That's PROGRESS to CHEER about...if you're a bushbot and/or idiot!

[Zhade]

29. Infuckingdeed, Lynn!

This is setting up a theocracy. Who the fuck here wants THAT?

[LynnTheDem]

30. That's what 1980 Americans have died for, 25,000 Americans wounded for.

Article 2:

First: Islam is the official religion of the State and it is a fundamental source of legislation:

A. No law that contradicts the established provisions of Islam may be established.

[TexasLawyer]

10. Syrian border

Today's NYT reports vicious fire fights along the Iraq border with Syria. I wouldn't call that a quiet day of voting.

[Skittles]

13. TL, a reserve coworker of mine recently returned from Iraq

he said the action is all on the Syrian border

[LynnTheDem]

27. 6 US soldiers killed...wouldn't call that a quiet day of voting, either.

Notice the M$M hasn't really bothered to point out that bit of news though?

[Neil Lisst]

17. Did she get to wear her new $3200 shoes?

Every time I see her now, and I did see her today about this topic, I am reminded that she was buying a $3200 pair of shoes in NYC while people were dying on TV in New Orleans.

[Tempest]

20. Is this what she means by a quiet day: Five U.S. troops killed in blast

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051016/ts_nm/iraq_soldiers_dc

Five U.S. soldiers were killed in Iraq on Saturday when their vehicle was hit by an improvised bomb in the western city of Ramadi, the U.S. military said on Sunday.

[fshrink]

23. Another "probing mind", indeed. nt

[0007]

26. This administration is giving professional wresting

a bad name.