Westboro Baptist Church poster protesting Judy Shepard mentions explosives

[PageOneQ]

Phelps poster protesting Judy Shepard mentions explosive devices

By Michael Rogers, PageOneQ

(Sunday, October 16, 2005, Washongton, DC) - Westboro Baptist Church, the rabidly homophobic group run by Fred Phelps has targeted a speech by Judy Shepard, mother of the late Matthew Shepard, as it's next target of protests. The speech, at Montana's Carroll College, is scheduled for this Tuesday evening.

A flyer distributed by the church (below), the church claims that Judy Shepard is "avaricious," speaking out against hate crimes in an effort to accumulate wealth. The same flyer, posted on the Westboro Baptist Church website, connects the event to "Improvised Explosive Devices, leaving some to wonder if the Church intends to use such devices at the speech.

Phelps poster protesting Judy Shepard mentions explosive devices

[Vogon_Glory]

1. How Long 'til They Can Get Busted?

I wonder just how much further the Westboro Baptist Church can go until they cross that line where a district attorney can lock them up for intimidation or worse. That line can't be too far now.

[IndianaGreen]

3. Under the PATRIOT Act they can be detained indefinitely as terrorists

I have been a long advocate of outright repeal of PATRIOT, but since the GOP and the DLC Democrats are enamored with this law, I now support the Left using PATRIOT against the GOP and conservatives in general. Those that lived by PATRIOT, shall die by PATRIOT!

[Vogon_Glory]

74. There Are Other Laws Besides The Patriot Act...

There are other laws available to prosecutors besides the Patriot Act. There comes a point where protest, even the sort of ugly sort practiced by Fred Phelps, can turn into intimidation and things which cross the line into criminal. I'll let someone familiar with the law answer that question.

[Fountain79]

2. The article is misinformed

Fred Phelps has been saying "Thank God for IED's" for a little while now and it really has nothing to do with Judy/Matt Shepard. He is referring to fallen servicemen/women who are killed by those explosive devices. In his mind because the United States has now become a "Fag Nation"(his words) God's punishing us. IED's are only part of the punishment in Phelp's eyes.

How can one man carry so much hate in his heart?

[struggle4progress]

7. Maybe not. Phelps plays to the violent rightwing extremists: shortly

after the WBC visit to Durham NC, a number of crosses were burned in town, at least one immediately beside a church Phelps had targeted.

The tactics seem unpleasantly familiar to me, and I am not at all persuaded that the article misrepresents the group's intentions ...

[Fountain79]

8. The irony is...

Phelps at one time a civil rights attorney. I have visited his website on several occassions he does not seem to promote racism.

Again, if you look at his website the article does misrepresent what the IED reference pertains to...

[MuseRider]

9. His rep as a civil rights attorney

is very suspect. It seems he settled most things out of court and his clients ended up paying him most of what they gained. I would never say he was pro civil rights, he has always be pro Fred.

He has caused lots of trouble no matter what he is involved in.

[struggle4progress]

10. Horseshit. WBC promotes all manner of hatred. See, for example,

http://www.adl.org/special_reports/wbc/default.asp

[MuseRider]

4. This is a stupid assumption.

They have been carrying those IED signs for a long time now, months. These people may be nuts and disgusting but they have never to my knowledge ever gone beyond threatening with a sign. Phelps, by all accounts is violent only to his family.

Ignore them. That is the worst thing that could ever happen to them.

[struggle4progress]

11. A City Held Hostage

<snip> They have used daily pickets, an array of intimidating tactics, scores of lawsuits and a veritable flood of faxes that are so filled with slurs and sex that they rival the product of the most prolific professional pornographer. <snip>

One little girl, going with her parents to see the "Nutcracker" ballet in a Topeka hall, had WBC pickets hiss at her: "Did your Daddy stick in his prick in your ass last night?" <snip>

In addition to suing the chief of police and various Kansas judges and politicians, it has sued one district attorney three times for "malicious prosecution." Even private citizens who filed criminal complaints against the picketers found themselves embroiled in lawsuits — or, perhaps by coincidence, with roofing nails littering their driveways. <snip>

During the course of those and other pickets, Phelps and his followers engaged in activities that resulted in battery, criminal restraint and disorderly conduct convictions. <snip>

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?pid=422

[MuseRider]

12. Please

I have known these people my entire life. I KNOW them, these are not acts that are cause to escalate everyone's fear of them. They are NOT going to blow up things with IEDs, I can say this with almost certainty. Why risk going to prison when people will say this and give them all the attention they have ever wanted? Are they sick and disgusting, YES oh yes. I mean this with every fiber of my being....Fred is in this for Fred. Nothing is more important to Fred than getting attention.

No need to educate me, they picket here in 3 different locations 3 or 4 times a day. I am more aware than most what they are up to sadly.

[struggle4progress]

13. You claim they've never "gone beyond threatening with a sign."

The point of my post was simply that, in fact, they have.

[MuseRider]

14. OK here goes

I was at that Nutcracker, I performed in it. People in this town would do anything and say anything to rid this town of them. I walk through them at every rehearsal, every concert I perform in or go to. Every event here has a Phelps group. They sing hymns at you. At first there was trouble but that was years ago and I seriously doubt that was ever said by one of them. They have done nothing in a long long time that I know of.

Look, this article was bogus. They have been carrying the IED signs for several months now. The article suggests they are thinking of blowing up something. It is stupid and gets everyone all upset and the end result is more notoriety for Fred.

Why did he go from gay signs to Thank God for 9-11? It caused a stir. Why did they go on to use the IED signs? They cause a stir. Why was he a civil rights lawyer? It caused a stir. Why does he or someone in his family run for office? Why does he always petition to change our city ordinances? What is the common ground here? Fred needs us to be upset to keep himself where he thinks he should be, in the limelight.

I can't believe that I sound like I am defending this poop. In 40+ years of knowing this family I have never, ever witnessed violence from them. It does nobody any good to make assumptions (not you, the article) that causes them to make more news.

[struggle4progress]

47. The article does little beyond reproducing the WBC flier:

There's not much in the article other than some brief but accurate discussion.

When reading this flier, let us remember that Matthew Shepard was murdered, and the Westboro gang showed up at his funeral to celebrate.

The flier appears to claim G-d speaks through IEDs: this is followed by hate speech directed against Judy Shepard and the Montana Fund for Tolerance.

It is completely natural to read this flier as a veiled threat.

Perhaps some folks in Kansas have simply become numb ...

[MuseRider]

50. As you said to someone above horseshit.

Numb? Are you kidding me? Calm......

Look, he has been doing this for months now. Everything he does now has the IED stuff with it. I addressed this downthread to someone else. Everything he has done all summer long has been accompanied by this. IT IS NOT NEW! All it takes is a little research to see this. It is not a direct threat, it is NOT NEW! AND it is an attempt to do just what it has done so effectively here on DU, it has freaked people out to the point that they are calling each other out and dropping any attempt to research, just freaky reactions. Now he has another little hit of fame. Numb my ass, we have to live with the son of a bitch.

How freaking offensive. Yes, it is put together in an odd fashion but I dare anyone to do any research on his protests this summer and not find this mentioned.

[struggle4progress]

51. Okay, You say: "this article was bogus." What in the article is untrue?

The article reproduces a WBC flier, announcing a picket of Judy Shepard's talk. Let us now analyze the article

1st sentence. WBC's gonna picket.
Comment: Well, that is what the flier's about, isn't it?

2nd sentence. Date of the talk.
Comment: This assertion seems consistent with flier. (I admit I haven't tried to double-check the date against the college's PR releases)

3rd sentence. Flier calls Judy avaricious, claims she's motivated by money.
Comment: It looks to me like that's exactly what the flier says.

4th sentence. The flier mentions IEDs, causing some people to worry.
Comment. The flier does mention IEDs, and I find concern a reasonable reaction to the flier.

5th sentence. The flier attacks folks other than Matt.
Comment: So it does.

6th sentence. As a result of threats, the college has refused to let the Montana Human Rights Network table at the event.
Comment: That's not the fault of the article

7th sentence. Where the college is located.
Comment: This assertion seems neither inaccurate nor alarmist


So exactly WHAT in this article is bogus?

[MuseRider]

54. I never said it was bogus

I said the reaction was silly. This is nothing more than what he has been doing all summer long. People need to stop and think before they fall head over heels and make LARGE assumptions about the meaning of something put out by assholes like Fred Phelps. He has never bombed anyone, the little bit of violence that happened happened many years ago and frankly it did not help that someone drove onto the curb and ran over a few of them and then did some kind of thing to his compound. My guess it was an M80 or something small that again, got blown out of proportion. We will never get around or ahead of these people if we do not stop reacting in crazy freak outs without thinking, never. The IED has been his extra theme this summer, it is not new nor is it unusual for him and it certainly has worked hasn't it? You might try reading real stories about this freak and you will see for yourself that he has done the same damned thing over and over again and it ALWAYS works because nobody cares to really look at what is happening. Yep, I am numb as hell and if you do not even want to listen and take from the people that deal with them daily a little bit of advice then you will never be anything but reacting. We beat this son of a bitch and it was one hell of a lot of work just getting past the people who only care to react and not listen and learn.

[struggle4progress]

55. Direct quote, post #14, paragraph 2: "Look, this article was bogus." eom

[MuseRider]

56. You are right I did.

Sorry about that. I am going to have to quit this tonight, it is my husbands birthday and I had a bit too much to drink and don't think I should post much more. You are correct I did say that. My bad. I do think it is bogus though because there was obviously no attempt to find out what he had been up to all summer. That one little thing would have defused this.

I do not want to argue this. I am no defender of Fred but I do have a lot of experience with him and his group and I have been a part of a group that beat him, the only ones that ever have.

My life experience with him should count for something. I still think he is not violent with other than his family. I still think it is all a ploy for attention. However if anyone is able to stop him I would be very grateful. I just do not think we are going to get there by not paying attention to his history and by loud, freak out reaction to his every attention grabbing action.

[struggle4progress]

61. Peace. I'm touchy about this. See my post #60. eom

[MuseRider]

63. I saw it earlier

and I am very sorry about that. He tends to bring the worst out in about everyone.

Look, I hope I can still make sense here lol, I hate the guy. My brother is dead because of the shame people like Fred Phelps caused him to feel as a kid. Still, I see so much over reaction and it is almost never helpful. I say this with all respect to you and others, I am totally on your side with this but I don't think this article was correct to stir this up. I don't care if it was fair or not to Fred, that is not the point. The point is that overreacting, and it is easy and warranted, is what he wants and I am sick of giving him the satisfaction. You know that evil little twitter he has when he thinks he has won? I hear that every time I see this.

If you are interested there is a really good story of his life written in part by him through interviews and by interviews of people who have known him and his sons who got away. It really explains a lot about why this kind of thing upsets me because it becomes apparent that this is what he is after. I will have to wait until tomorrow though because it is stuck in the mess I call bookmarks and tonight, well, I am just not up to it!

Peace to you too. It is just so damned frustrating that people like Fred exist and cause the trouble he does.

[struggle4progress]

60. After these WBC SOBs came to MY town, crosses were burned.

I ignored them until that, but I now suspect they may serve as an effective organizing focus for other rightwing extremists -- and I'm not much inclined to offer much in the way of patience when dealing with them.

It's one thing to argue that we shouldn't unwittingly help their efforts to stir up controversy by shrieking whenever they appear, a proposition I've generally been inclined to agree with.

It's a completely different thing to suggest that an obvious (and only thinly veiled) threat should be ignored because we don't want to give them publicity, or because we can make excuses that they really meant something different, a view I regard with no sympathy at all.

[MuseRider]

65. Please I am not

giving them excuses. Please see that, please. I hate them but this was just not correct. Sorry, it is old news. I do understand your reaction, please try to understand that I am not on their side here.

[Tigress DEM]

62. I hear you. People, this isn't a defense of the guy, only clarification.

Still, when someone is this vehement against someone and even if there has been no violence, his crowds are large and intimidating.

The spew and the signs along with the number of people they bring makes it like a huge man looming over his tiny wife with his fist in the air. It doesn't matter if it's a threat he says he'll never carry out, the very nature of the threat is damage enough.

I just think there should be police watching to make sure this isn't the one time Fred goes off his rocker and tells all his people to go and do something.

Serial killers can be model citizens until that one day and then it's too late.

This man is seriously fried in the mental circuits and even if we hope he maintains his previous patterns and doesn't go to violence, it isn't always "assuming he will" to prepare for the possibility.

I hope you're right, but I personally wouldn't bet people's safety on the belief that he won't become violent some time when he carries so much hate in his heart.

[MuseRider]

67. It was never my intention

that people should not be protected. I think you got that, I hope. It is my reaction to the overreaction that gives him more ammo to keep this up. I would give anything if he could just escalate his rhetoric with no response, get frustrated and quit. It will not happen either way but he gets his response and goes on to believe he is even more correct. Does that make sense?

I do agree that people should always have protection around them, you are right that you just never know. It would be a big jump for him to do real violence like that but that of course does not mean it will never happen.

[Tigress DEM]

68. I got that.

Still, even if YOU understand the origin of his IED legally, it could still be perceived as a thinly disguised threat because there is no disclaimer on the poster and it says what it says.

Legally a knife has to be a certain size and held a certain way and some sort of threat voiced to become an actual attempt on your life, but terroristic threats is actually a more grey legal area and if Phelps started getting pulled into court on it, he might have to remove IED from the posters if he fully did not mean it to be a threat.

Could be a small victory.

I can see the smile on your face as you contemplate it.

[MuseRider]

69. They are so freaking careful

that getting caught like that would be a huge victory.

Every small victory adds up. We got one now lets get them on this one too.

I really feel badly that people thought I was sticking up for the SOB. I do know them and I do know partly how to beat them so it is hard because I also understand the reaction that people have to him. My entire town has been all over the place with this guy since 1952, it gets really old.

[Tigress DEM]

71. The problem with threads like these is people get caught up..

in their own thoughts and because you can't see the other person's face like you can or hear their voice, it's sometimes hard to register the meaning of what they say.

I tend to be one who will take the literal words and so I get in trouble if someone is being sarcastic without identifying it. In your case I read the words and heard exactly what you said.

I wonder too sometimes if people think they know where someone is going and they don't read the whole comment.

[bos1]

18. The church was (supposedly) bombed in the past

and that started the reverend's obsession with bombs. This article is doing a disservice to spread garbage like this.

[MuseRider]

19. I have been looking

for the archived article in our paper but have not been able to locate it. It is there though and I will post it if I find it later. He started with the IED stuff not too long ago. Linking it to the "bombing" of his church is disingenuous at best I think.

[Arkana]

37. Oh. My. God.

One little girl, going with her parents to see the "Nutcracker" ballet in a Topeka hall, had WBC pickets hiss at her: "Did your Daddy stick in his prick in your ass last night?"

I swear, if I'd been that little girl's father, I'd have beaten the living shit out of those psychotic fuckers. How DARE THEY!!!! :grr:

[DiverDave]

46. Some here would call that "free speech"

I would react the same as you describe.

Whether you wear a T-Shirt with the word "Fuck" on it, or say something as despicable as that.
There are misguided souls here that defend their right to say such things.

If they would have said that to my kids, it would have been ON, and thats a FACT.

[Arkana]

48. Right. They may be exercising their right to free speech

but I'd be exercising my right to beat them into a bloody pulp for saying that to my daughter.

[Tigress DEM]

57. Hatred that is tolerated only gets braver.

I'm not encouraged if he only beats members of his family.

Having been a lawyer, he may be using IED in the manner you described or may be hoping someone "misinterprets" his meaning into the one the other poster is referring to and then he would have "incited violence" "unintentionally".

Someone who thinks "God's Hatred is one of His intrynsic values" is really off his rocker. You can't really read the Bible and come away with that unless you throw the New Testament and Christ in the trash.

[ecoflame]

5. If I'm not incorrect, Carroll College

is a private college - Catholic, Jesuit-run; thus, private property. Just like here when they came to protest a soldier's funeral at the College of Idaho; it's private property and they weren't allowed on the property. They were forced to remain across the street on public property - public walkways.

I would hope that the FBI and the new agency, created under the auspices of Homeland Security, which will keep track of U.S. citizens - tracks these idiots.

[Tigress DEM]

58. Why would they do that? These aren't DEMs or Peacenicks.

"I would hope that the FBI and the new agency, created under the auspices of Homeland Security, which will keep track of U.S. citizens - tracks these idiots."

THOT. Couldn't WE alert the police in the town? An annonymous tip about possible danger to their town from these nutjobs?

[ecoflame]

75. Oh....I'll bet good $, the police already know

When Phelps' shitheads showed up here, the police were very much prepared. It had been all over in the media.

The FBI & the new agency created to peek on American citizens would do well to follow the terrorists in our own society. In listening to NPR last week, I heard a woman (black) who talked about racism. She was specifically speaking about her experiences in Mississippi, while growing up there. She termed THAT terrorism, which is an excellent point and in which it is exactly. I'll try to find the story.

Here's the flyer from Phelps regarding his 'action' at Carroll College. (FYI = pdf file)

[ecoflame]

76. Report: Matthew Shepard's Mom Target Of Bomb Threat

This is from 365.com...

(Helena, Montana) Police in Helena Montana are investigating threats to disrupt a speech at Carroll College by the mother of http://www.365gay.com/newscon05/10/101605shepard.htm">Matthew Shepard.

This is a reaction regarding Carroll College's denying the Montana Human Rights Network setting up a table at the event.

[kid a]

6. I'm driving to Helena tomorrow to hear the speech

There is not as much media attention on this event as there was when Carroll college cancelled a speech by Montana's Planned Parenthood admin because of a conflict of moral values.

[ecoflame]

80. Are U going to report back? (n/t)

n/t

[kweerwolf]

15. Here's the first reference I could find to IEDs by Phelps

It comes from one of Freddie's infamous faxes and was posted on Pam's House Blend blog on Sept. 24, 2005 under the headline "Fred Phelps weighs in on Rita. (The original can be found in the September 2005 archives at http://www.pamspaulding.com/weblog/)

In the night hours of August 19-20, 1995, several fag students at Topeka's Washburn Univ. actually set off an IED at our church - and the federal government did nothing. And, the state court sentenced the ring leader to 16 days - not years!

Last week in the night hours some fine Americans again vandalized our church and did thousands in damages in an attempted aggravated burglary- the latest in a long line of hundreds of unsolved, uninvestigated, unpunished, violent crimes against us.

So apparently Freddie isn't trying to blow other things up so much as he's worried about someone blowing up his sorry ass.

[Tigress DEM]

59. Or bombing himself to get media attention.

If THAT crazy group were after me, the last thing I would do would be to go anywhere near any place they frequented.

[Zenlitened]

16. Who could have imagined... people springing to the defense of Phelps?

Scrambling to find "context" for his mention of IEDs, when in fact the Shepards have no connection to IEDs ands that's what makes the mention so threatening. Insisting his followers wouldn't spew vile speech at passers-by, when in fact that's their m.o. I dunno... maybe he is a "real christian" after all, if he warrants such treatment. :shrug:

[kweerwolf]

17. I live 45 minutes from Phelps' "church"

and have been face-to-face with him and his inbred clan on numerous occasions.

I could give a shit less about defending the piece of shit. My purpose in posting the "context" for his IED comment was more about making sure people didn't go off half-cocked because some highly misleading information was put forth.

[Zenlitened]

25. Let's let the FBI decide the level of threat here.

Why should I go out of my way to rationalize, apologize for, or explain away this religious extremist's behavior?

[kweerwolf]

30. Instead of worrying about someone trying to 'rationalize' ...

... you might trying being rational yourself on it.

Yes, Phelps is a religious extremist. Hell, even mainstream fundies agree on that point.

But there is no rational reason to see his statement as any sort of implicit or implied threat. As has been stated, he uses the "Thank God for IEDs" statement in most of his faxes these days to a) refer to the US as a "fag nation" that deserves to have its soldiers die in Iraq, and b) make reference to an "attack" on his compound in 1995.

I really respect Mike and his Page One Q, but in this instance I think he drew some conclusions that go beyond the evidence he cited. There are many, many reasons to despise Phelps, so why do we need to "create" a reason?

It's certainly within your rights to contact the FBI about it ... but I sincerely hope that if you do, you'll provide us with a follow-up posting on their response.

[Zenlitened]

31. "... you might trying being rational yourself..."

Nice.

:eyes:

[kweerwolf]

32. All I'm trying to say is don't let your hatred blind you ...

When you give in to it, you are lowering yourself to Phelps' level.

There are ways to fight him and counter his message. When we lower ourselves to his level and engage in "Jerry Springer Show" type dialogue, it does nothing to help our cause and, since Phelps already operates on that level, it does nothing to hurt his.

[Zenlitened]

33. Trust me, I'm not blinded by hate.

Again, his use of a bomb reference here constitutes a threat worthy of investigation, in my view.

And taking a simple opportunity to turn up the heat on Phelps is hardly a matter of lowering oneself to his level.

[Tigress DEM]

64. Right, because if we "accuse" him of it, then Phelps can cry 'victim' "

Still, don't you think this type of hatred could potentially become violent? Especially if he has a big enough crowd behind him and doesn't think he's going to get in trouble because of careful planning?

[kweerwolf]

70. I understand what you're saying, but ...

... Phelps never has a big crowd behind him. His "church" is mostly his family members. At most there are probably 40 members of the church and when they travel to picket there are usually 0 or fewer of them at most.

Since Phelps and most of his kids have law degrees, they know just how far they can push the envelope. They are publicity hungry and they hope to incite someone to attack them so they can cry "victim!" and "persecution" and then file lawsuits.

Violence is not Phelps' style ... hoping to incite violence in other is.

The best ways to deal with Phelps if you are even near one of his "protests" ...

1. Ignore him and walk right by like he doesn't exist. This denies him any sort of reaction that reinforces his desire for attention.

2. Point at the rag-tag bunch and laugh uproariously. You may have to deal with catcalls from his inbred clan, but you are letting him know that you think he's a buffoon not to be taken seriously.

3. Pass around a "hate pledge" asking people to donate for every minute that Phelps protests. Then make sure that he knows that by being there he actually helping is opponents.

In the long-run, Phelps has actually helped LGBT rights more than he's hurt them. When Kansas City was working on an LGBT-inclusive human rights ordinance in '93 Freddie and his gang started coming here to picket. As a result, the "fence-sitters" on the city council were so enraged by Phelps' tactics that they adopted the ordinance unanimously. For many people who have not given much thought to LGBT issues, Phelps is the best weapon we have to show the kinds of whackjobs we face out there.

[Tigress DEM]

72. I've been around people like him before then.

My ex injured me trying repeatedly to throw me out of his house w/o my son. He was accusing me of having stopped by a "boyfriend's place" on the way to his house and was threatening to sue for full custody. (Possession of the child being 9/10ths of the law I couldn't leave him there that night.)

The accusations were all bunk of course. I wound up missing a bus on a Sunday and having to wait 2 hours for the next one. So I walked back to the place I used to live and they let me fix my son something to eat and I borrowed the phone. I filed a police report about him assaulting me and got a ride home with a friend. I was home about 1/2 an hour and police came knocking at "my" door claiming they had a "report" about me mistreating and not feeding my kid.

"Let me guess," I said, "It was ...... " and I explained the situation. It happened to be the one day in my young son's life that someone else beside me had been there for every single meal so it was a bit ironic. The officer couldn't say who it was that made the report, but he did suddenly decide there wasn't any reason to pursue the matter further.


You said, "Violence is not Phelps' style ... hoping to incite violence in others is."

It would be hard not to lash back at him. I know you see him as pathetic and you've developed a coping strategy, but I guess it's a good thing I don't live closer by.

I'd be tempted to walk right up to his face and tell him that "God is a God of love and if your God is the God of Hate then you're worshiping Satan pure and simple." If he didn't start beating the hell out of me when I turned my back and walked away, then he'd probably burn my house down.

[MuseRider]

20. Just in case you are

refering to me please look at these links before this gets out of hand.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=2735995

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x17526

Just two. Just in case......:shrug:

[Zenlitened]

26. All the more reason to put another nail in his coffin.

Mentioning weapons or explosives in a discussion of Matthew Shepard's mother... that's a threat. Let's let the FBI investigate just how dangerous a threat it is.

[MuseRider]

36. I am fine with that

but given the circumstances I think it was a misinformed article and just brings more attention and freaking out about a guy who has spent his life trying to do just that.

Enough said, I just wanted to clarify that I do not in anyway support them but do support the truth. I do believe very strongly that at some point if we all ignored the man it would either escalate and lead to his arrest (martyrdom) or he would go away. I don't think I even seriously believe he hates anyone, it is just a means to get him the attention he has always craved and sought. But that is just me. Too many years around these people.

[Fountain79]

22. Because if we don't find context...

Then you give this rather unfortunate individual more ammunition.

[Zenlitened]

23. It's not about giving him ammunition. It's about his making...

... threatening statements. Headlining statement about Jusy Shepard -- who has nothing to do with the situation in Iraq -- IS threatening, and should be investigated by the FBI. Sorry, I'm just not willing to ignore these militant christians in the hope they'll just go away.

[Fountain79]

24. again...

I'm not ignoring them. There are plenty of reasons to hate this guy but skewing one of his already skewed arguments is beneath us.

[Zenlitened]

27. Sorry, not interested in some vague idea of integrity...

... not when religious extremists are involved. If he's making threats, he should be investigated. And mentioning explosives in a discussion of Judy Shepard is a threat.

[Fountain79]

28. Funny thing about hate

It makes one forget about integrity.

[Zenlitened]

29. Yeah, I'm guilty of hate.

:eyes:

Perhaps we have different definitions of when the concept of integrity comes into play? Perhaps we have different definitions of integrity itself? My definition does not cause me to forgo opportunities to confront dangerous people.

[Fountain79]

34. There's confronting

And then there's misrepresenting what was said in the first place. The flyer however hateful makes no real threat at Shepard, and frankly the website plays right into Phelps' hands.

[Zenlitened]

35. Why mention explosives in connection with Judy Shepard?

Sound like a threat to me, since as far as I know she has no connection whatsoever to Iraq.

And why fall all over ourselves to excuse Phelps' behavior? Why not take the opportunity he himself has provided, to turn up the heat on him a bit?

Ignoring this vile man and his brood of haters has NOT made them go away -- they spread their poison to more and more communities every year.

Some may be willing to sip teas and "tsk-tsk" as he elevates his rhetoric and possibly his actions. Others are tired of waiting.

[MuseRider]

38. It has nothing to do with Shepard

this has been his deal since sometime this summer. He protests here every day, many locations, many times and this summer he added those IED signs and they go right along with the anti gay signs at every single protest. They have been dragged all over the country to soldiers funerals and all the other protests. This has nothing at all to do with Shepard, it has every thing to do with him needing more attention. Same with his 9-11 signs.

As I said to you up thread. I have no problem with the FBI investigating this but I don't think it is anymore of a threat there that it is anywhere else and this sign is old, at least for us here in Topeka. Whatever.

[Zenlitened]

42. I understand that. That's what makes his mentioning of explosives...

... in a flier about Shepard all the more disturbing.

[MuseRider]

43. OK, I agree that there is no problem

having the FBI check it out but the IED posters go everywhere with them now, that is why I do not understand all the freaking about them going here too. I would (never mind)(be very upset) if something were to happen to Mrs. Shepard but I do not believe that is the intention here, it has just become the latest part of his schtik. That is all I am saying, not defending him in anyway. I just feel that the flier was no more and no less than he has sent out for the last few months and to incite reaction like this just plays right into his plan. It is easy to get so upset about these people that comprehension goes right out the window. It also could be that the author did not know that this was MOD for them at this point in time. We OK now? I hope so.

[Zenlitened]

49. Fair enough.

Peace.

[uniden]

40. context is everything

you might also want to blame Hitler for 9/11, but he is dead.

[Zenlitened]

41. Uh, right. You've certainly convinced me...

Got any more nifty strawmen to share? :crazy:

[uniden]

44. Ok

blame Pol Pot. He was a bad guy he must've done that too

[Zenlitened]

45. Uni, yer doin' a heck of a job.

:spray:

[Tigress DEM]

66. Welcome to DU.

One thing you might try is not picking sides in these things and seeing if people can work things out.

It gets pretty wild in here some times and I encourage you to be part of the solution whenever possible and not get involved with personal attacks.

What you said was only a little borderline, but by jumping in the way you did you could have fanned the flames instead of helping DUers get to some real understanding.

[damntexdem]

21. Phelps is the worst of the monster worshippers.

Who knows what he might do?

[uniden]

39. Michael Rogers needs some reading comprehension courses

unless he did it on purpose to get hits for his stupid article. According to that "preacher" the IEDs are killing "Americans in strange lands," because we have to many gays, and god is retaliating.

[arwalden]

52. So Is It Okay For Me To Be Unashamed To Admit My Hatred For Phelps?

Or does it show my own lack of personal integrity?

If it's unclear whether the matter is just unintentional awkward wording, or an actual intentional veiled threat... considering his history and the misery he's caused others, I have no problem at all in NOT giving him ANY benefit of the doubt. I would applaud any efforts to use the "system" against him.

The little shit!

[nemo137]

53. Phelps is a hateful, pharisee bigot, who twists the Message for his own

ends. He lies and, like many so-called Christians, ignores what millenia of church thought define as the central tennant of Christianity, "love your neighbor as yourself." Not, I'd like to point out, "gays will burn in hell forever"

[ngGale]

73. Maybe Wal-Mart will turn them in...

do they take pictures? The high school kid in Kitty Hawk will never forget Wal-Mart. It's obvious, IMO the reason HS doesn't go after this nit-wit is because he's *'s base.

[Zenlitened]

77. Local police are investigating based on IED reference

Report: Matthew Shepard's Mom Target Of Bomb Threat

by 365Gay.com Newscenter Staff

(Helena, Montana) Police in Helena Montana are investigating threats to disrupt a speech at Carroll College by the mother of Matthew Shepard.

Judy Shepard is scheduled to speak at the private Catholic college Tuesday about the impact of Matthew's murder.

(snip)

One flier distributed on campus makes reference to the use of "improvised explosive devices," Lee told the Associated Press.

Copies of the flier have been turned over to police and an investigation is underway to determine if they violate Montana law. It also is not known if they originated with Westboro Church or were made by someone trying to capitalize on the planned protest.

http://www.365gay.com/newscon05/10/101605shepard.htm

Also, from the Billings Gazette:

...Nancy Lee, spokeswoman for Carroll, said the purpose of the lecture is to promote tolerance. But the Kansas-based Westboro Baptist Church, known for its strongly worded anti-gay literature, has threatened to picket the event. One flier from the group even makes reference to the use of "improvised explosive devices," Lee said.

The police have been notified, security will be on hand, and no picketers will be allowed on the private campus, Lee said.

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2005/10/16/build/state/60-cites-safety.inc

[Realityhack]

78. Thats not a threat

Its a refrence to this groups wako belief that the IEDs in Iraq are gods work.

Yes they are a bunch of sichopaths... but this is not a threat.

There is absolutely no reason to think they might use an IED at the speach.

I think they are morons but I respect their right to publicly prove it. Sure there should be lots of security... because there will be high emotions... but I would not be overly concerned about IEDs (well not more than normal for that particular group of sikos. I would not put killing in cold blood past them).

Stupid incomplete artical as they have made these statements hundreds of times in the past. Pure fearmongering.

[Zenlitened]

79. "... I would not put killing in cold blood past them."

Hey, stop fearmongering.

:scared: