PETA workers face 25 felony counts in North Carolina

[seriousstan]

WINTON, N.C. — The cats and dogs two PETA employees have been charged with euthanizing and dumping in an Ahoskie garbage bin were killed by injections of pentobarbital, a barbiturate commonly used to put down animals, according to new warrants issued and served on Friday.

Additionally, the two employees were charged with three felony counts of obtaining property by false pretenses. The charges allege that they euthanized three cats from an Ahoskie veterinarian after promising to find the animals new homes, according to the new warrants.

PETA employees Andrew B. Cook, 24, of Virginia Beach, and Adria J. Hinkle, 27, of Norfolk, were served with warrants on 22 felony charges of animal cruelty and the three felony charges of obtaining property by false pretense in court on Friday.

A grand jury is expected to consider formal indictments Oct. 31, Assistant District Attorney Donnie Taylor said.

WINTON, N.C. — The cats and dogs two PETA employees have been charged with euthanizing and dumping in an Ahoskie garbage bin were killed by injections of pentobarbital, a barbiturate commonly used to put down animals, according to new warrants issued and served on Friday.

Additionally, the two employees were charged with three felony counts of obtaining property by false pretenses. The charges allege that they euthanized three cats from an Ahoskie veterinarian after promising to find the animals new homes, according to the new warrants.

PETA employees Andrew B. Cook, 24, of Virginia Beach, and Adria J. Hinkle, 27, of Norfolk, were served with warrants on 22 felony charges of animal cruelty and the three felony charges of obtaining property by false pretense in court on Friday.

A grand jury is expected to consider formal indictments Oct. 31, Assistant District Attorney Donnie Taylor said.

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=93730&ran=57036

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LisaL]

2. And if they did do it, it was for a good reason.

[Breeze54]

102. How do you know this?

Do you have all the facts?
This sounds like a 'breaking story'....
maybe 'mercy killing'...maybe not.

You don't know.

We all need more information.

IMHO..........

[moobu2]

4. PETA didn’t do anything, it’s just an animal rights organization

If anyone did anything it was these people and they haven’t even been convicted of anything yet. If they did what they're charged with they should be punished, but "PETA" didnt do anything.

[LisaL]

7. Yea, right.

:eyes:

[WhollyHeretic]

27. What an intelligent response, you've certainly convinced me

that these 2 idiots represent the thousands and thousands of caring Peta members around the world. Based on your flawless logic every democrat in the country is a criminal because their have been democrats who have been arrested before. Bravo!

[LisaL]

43. And based on your logic, republican party is completely innocent

and has nothing whatsoever to do with Bush.

[WhollyHeretic]

45. No, let me put this simply for you, I'm saying you can't judge

millions of people on the actions of two idiots.

[LisaL]

47. Peta seem to be supporting them. A woman involved got suspended.

A man did not. Peta is apparently also paying for their lawyer. The only thing Peta is upset with is that these two dumped the bodies. Otherwise, it's all fine and dandy. Peta provided these two with a van and a name. Using Peta's name, these two were able to get these animals. What about phenobarbital? Have it ever occurred to you that it's a controlled substance, that it should have been accounted for? How come no one in Peta kept track of it? Didn't anyone in Peta notice these two went to pick up the animals but never brought any back? And where did Peta think phenobarbital went?

[flvegan]

51. Must truly be an incredible feeling knowing one never makes a mistake.

I'm just sayin...

Blaming PETA for the actions of these people, if guilty, is moronic.

BUT, I tell you what, if you can prove that PETA (the organization) gave written orders to these two folks...aw heck, just one of them...to go and pick up animals and euthanize them in the van, then dump the bodies in a dumpster, I'll be all ears to whatever you have to say.

[WhollyHeretic]

53. Have you read BrklynLiberal's post down at the bottom of the page?

[LisaL]

56. Yes, I did read it. And what does it say?

Does it explain why two Peta members kill cats and dogs and dump their bodies in a public dumpster? Does it explain how come no one in Peta cared that phenobarbital was not accounted for? No, it explains nothing. Just some more nonsense how everybody else is lying about giving these animals for euthanasia, to those two who couldn't even dispose of the bodies properly. Why would vet give an animal for euthanasia to someone who isn't a vet, and can't even properly dispose of bodies? Excuse me if I don't by this crap for one second.

[nvliberal]

61. PETA is no better than the fanatics in the right-to-life movement.

What most people don't understand is PETA is NOT an animal welfare organization; it is an "animal rights" organization.

There's a big difference, especially if one understands the leadership at least following the crackpot philosophy of Peter Singer in this regard.

[LeftyMom]

64. I understand that, I give them money.

Does that mean I'm "no better than the fanatics in the right-to-life movement?"

[LeftyMom]

70. I'm waiting...

The responsible thing would be to clarify or retract that insulting blanket statement, however if you want to try to back it up come do that. Don't drop a bomb and leave, it's rude and it makes your argument look weak.

Oops, I meant to respond to post #61.

[arwalden]

74. Not Necessarily...

... to come right out and say such a thing would be to make a personal attack against you. It almost sounds like you were encouraging that poster into doing something that would be breaking the rules. (??)

It just means that you support the Peta fanatics financially.

[flvegan]

65. So what you're saying is that

being involved in animal rights makes you

1. a fanatic; and,
2. comparable to same in the right-to-life movement.

Yes? You're not suggesting Army of God type stuff, are you?

[arwalden]

76. I See Similarities

[flvegan]

80. Let's have 'em.

C'mon...spill it...

and be specific, please.

[arwalden]

85. You Know How To Google As Well As Anyone...

... I'm not your girl Friday.

I'm afraid I cannot explain why you would not already be aware of these things. Such vanity demands will not be fulfilled by me... You'll just have to look it up for yourself.

[flvegan]

88. You make accusations you can't back up. That's cool.

Google isn't my be-all-end-all of what facts are.

Sorry.

[arwalden]

100. You Make Vanity Demands To Divert Attention From The Truth, That's Cool.

I'm no performing poodle for you to order about. You'll be hard-pressed to motivate me into providing "proof" to you that white really is white, even though you tell me it's black.

<< Google isn't my be-all-end-all of what facts are. Sorry. >>

But it's a start. Give it a try. I highly recommend it.

[flvegan]

108. Because you can't. It's okay. We've all been there...

I guess.

A start? You base all your facts on a Google search? Friend, we're in trouble...

[arwalden]

131. Nice.

<< "Because you can't. It's okay. We've all been there..." >>
<< You base all your facts on a Google search? Friend, we're in trouble... >>

Again with the ad-hominems? It's not about me. Nice personal slam.

I'm not your friend. That passive-aggressive shit creeps me out... stop it.

<< A start? >>

Yes. A start. Try it.

[flvegan]

135. "I'm not your friend"

Well, that was enough for me. Thought that discussion, debate and whatnot was good. We could agree on so many things. This one issue is our sticking point. I respect your stance, I just ask for you to prove up what you post as facts. Oh, well...so be it.

Bye.

[arwalden]

139. That Is True... I Am Not Your Friend.

<< Well, that was enough for me. >>

My friendship is not something that I hand out like sticks of gum. It has to be developed and earned. Sorry... you're not there yet.

<< Thought that discussion, debate and whatnot was good. >>

That wasn't discussion. Nor was it debate. It was merely a series of your silly little demands of me to prove that white was white.

<< We could agree on so many things. >>

I doubt that.

<< This one issue is our sticking point. >>

:eyes: One issue?

<< I respect your stance, I just ask for you to prove up what you post as facts. Oh, well...so be it. >>

Silly demands and a waste of my time. I won't endulge you. Cope.

<< Bye. >>

Adios! :hi:

[flvegan]

141. Thanks.

You made yourself look exactly as I expected you would.

Cope with that.

[flvegan]

142. (insert tirade response here)

*snort*

[arwalden]

145. No Coping Necessary. I'd First Have To Actually Care...

... what someone thought of me.

<< You made yourself look exactly as I expected you would. Cope with that. >>

[kestrel91316]

78. Thank you. At least some people GET IT.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

6. I'd really like to know how long these people have been with PETA

given their young age.

I don't consider their actions to be PETA's policy

[LisaL]

10. The woman has been working for Peta for years. I think close to

7 years. The man was there for a few months, and thus, he wasn't even fired by Peta.

[tatertop]

18. Thank you for the oasis of common sense

PETA has over one million members.
The actions of two rogue low-level
individuals who claim association with PETA
in no way define the policy of PETA.
PETA is to animals what the ACLU is to free thinking
people.

(Hasn't this singular incident been re-hashed
enough by the anti-PETA crowd - gheesh.)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

20. Probably not, but they refuse to acknowledge all the good done by PETA

Like:

Suspension from federal funding of animal cruelty
importation of stray mexican dogs fer experimentation
cruelty to chimps via isolation
Bobby Boroshi's beating of a Las Vegas show Orangutan
Uncovering Benetton's business practices in lab cruelty
stopping the use of live pigs in GM's crash tests
getting Mobil, Shell and Texaco to cap their oil stacks and stop killing birds


there's LOTS to appreciate about PETA's accomplishments

[cwydro]

3. can someone tell me WHY?

why do people like this work for PETA. What is the deal here???I don't get this story at all. It makes no sense. I think it is awful.

[LisaL]

5. Peta is not anti-euthanasia. It's no secret.

According to Peta, these two only did a bad thing because they dumped the bodies, not because they killed these animals in a first place.

[cwydro]

8. But why

take the animals under false pretenses? I just don't get it.

[flvegan]

34. We don't know that's true.

It's been alleged. The general agreement PETA had with these places, was that they'd find homes for the "adoptable" ones and euthanize those that couldn't be adopted.

I don't agree in lockstep with what PETA does, but I am a card-carrying member. I'm a little suspicious of governmental agencies that turn down money from one org (PETA, $15,000 to improve conditions at the shelters) yet turn around and take the same amount from the uber-rightwing consumerism group, The Center For Consumer Freedom. So, to me, their allegations are tainted.

The vet, Proctor, may possibly be simply supporting his AVMA cronies, who have recently come under pressure by animal rights groups for their endorsement of confinement systems like veal crates.

[LisaL]

42. I think some of them think that if animals can not roam free in

some magical garden, then they should be dead.
A lot of them are kind of freaky-consider what Ingrid wants to do with her body after she is dead.

[nvliberal]

62. She's a wacko, just like the rest of the leadership.

PETA has NO credibility because of their cultlike beliefs.

[flvegan]

66. Cultlike? Please explain...

[BrklynLiberal]

9. For the same reason you sometimes get firebugs working for the fire

department, violent maniacs working in the police department.
They were animal abusers BEFORE they worked for PETA and knew they would get an opportunity to realize their fantasies at some point in their career.
If you condemned every organization every time you found abusers within its ranks, what organization would be left unscathed?

[cwydro]

12. yeah, I suppose

you're right...but I think of cruelty type people as wanting to torture or maim..not just put to sleep (stupid term). That's why I don't get it, I guess.

[BrklynLiberal]

30. How do you know all that was done to them?(sadly)

[cwydro]

32. again, you are right

I can't think about that...I just can't. I hope it was only the shot.

[LisaL]

13. Hmm. Then why didn't Peta fire one of them? Peta doesn't

even consider what they did an animal abuse. Peta just think they shouldn't have dumped the bodies, otherwise, they weren't doing nothing wrong.

[BrklynLiberal]

29. That is not the version that I heard of how this ended. Do you have links

to your version of the story.

[flvegan]

36. Well

first, a block and copy from a post of mine yesterday, in re PETA firing anyone at this point:

They have to defend their employees on this one until they're proven guilty. Here's why...if they don't, for one, they already look guilty by turning their backs on them. For two, what kind of lawyers are a couple young folks making $25k a year going to get. Lastly, PETA gets to control the case. I sure as hell wouldn't want to see a plea bargain to turn any kind of State's Witness against PETA for this, any other, or any future charges/issues. If they are guilty, they should be fired...

As to abuse, these animals appear to have been humanely euthanized. There are no other signs of abuse. I don't see your point in this.

[LisaL]

40. Oh Lordy. When Frist did the exact same thing-took cats from

shelters and killed them, he is called cat killer and worst. When Peta does it, they do it for "humane reasons". Give me a freaking break!

[flvegan]

44. What did Frist do, exactly?

I already know, but I want you to spell it out. Talk about what he did to them before he killed them. Then compare the two.

Please, spell it out.

Obvious reasons.

[LisaL]

46. So, if he killed them fist, then it all would be fine and dandy with you?

Like, why didn't he kill more cats?
After he promised he would care for them?

[flvegan]

48. You said Frist did the same thing. He didn't.

Frist tortured the animals he adopted, under contract, from shelters, then killed them. There was no good, nor humane reason.

And, since (once again, I've mentioned this before) you weren't there, you don't know what promises were made. You are believing what the MSM is telling you.

Tell me where, in the above, I'm wrong please. But first, take the strawman route of your attacks elsewhere.

[LisaL]

49. Well, to Frist, it was about a good reason. He wanted to learn

anatomy so he can be a surgeon. What did these two from Peta were hoping to accomplish by killing these poor cats and dogs?

[flvegan]

52. So, it appears you support what Frist did. Hmmm...

Then, you compare torture to humane euthanasia.

*snort*

Good one.

So you're saying that torturing those animals was a good thing? It appears that way from your post. Looks like it's almost excusing Frist. Am I wrong?

[LisaL]

55. No, I am not excusing Frist. He obtained these animals under

false pretenses, just like Peta is accused of doing. He promised to give them a home, but instead killed them. But at least he had a reason for doing what he did. WTF did these two from Peta did it for?

[flvegan]

57. So torture is justified if there's a reason?

Got it. You've made that quite clear.

ANYway, I don't know why these two from PETA did what they did. I don't know them, nor do I have access to them.

Do you? If so, ask them, and let us all know.

[LisaL]

59. No, I don't know them, and I don't know Frist either.

WTF is your point? And no, torture isn't justified because of a good reason. I wish Frist was arrested and charged for what he did, just like those two should pay the price for what they did. As for Peta, they pay the legal fees for these two, they suspended one for 90 days, and didn't even suspend the other one. WTF does it tell you about Peta and it's involvement in this case?

[flvegan]

67. "at least he had a reason"

Your quote.

I don't need to say more.

I've already deflated your last suggestions as to PETA's employer standards and reasons.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LeftyMom]

17. Want to back that up?

That's a wild and baseless attack.

[WhollyHeretic]

22. Ignorance is the enemy of humanity.

[damntexdem]

11. PETA: the enemy of animals as well as of humanity.

They are the enemy. I don't know why anyone has ever considered them 'part of the left.'

[belle]

15. It's all about Ingrid, and she is a first-class narcissist nutjob.

[LeftyMom]

16. Hi, I just wanted to ask you (as a poster, not a mod)

to tone your language down as that comes off as an attack. There are a lot of good long-term DUers who are PETA members, including myself. We don't condone this behavior and we are neither anti-animal or anti-human.

[tatertop]

19. Thank You

I wish those who are anti-PETA would
take the time to visit a PETA resource center.
LOTS of good work being done.

[BrklynLiberal]

28. I am also a PETA member and resent being painted with the broad

brush of a couple of abusive members.
A couple of cops beat up an African-American in New Orleans. Does that make all cops bad?
A few soldiers torture Iraqis. Does that make all American GIs torturers?
Ignorant generalizations are just that...ignorant generalizations.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. PETA is not the enemy of humanity...humanity does not need to do

violence to animals to save itself..in fact...if humanity stopped doing violence to itself, it could learn a few things

[Maraya1969]

25. Yea can you give us a reason instead of a blanket proclamation?

[arwalden]

77. Reckless Disregard For The Rule Of Law... For Starters.

[flvegan]

81. I'll kindly ask you to back that post up, too...

[arwalden]

84. You Know How To Google As Well As Anyone...

... I'm not your girl Friday.

I'm afraid I cannot explain why you would not already be aware of these things. Such vanity demands will not be fulfilled by me... You'll just have to look it up for yourself.

[flvegan]

89. I'm pleased you can block and copy your posts

from upwards in the thread.

My response to your other post stands...

[arwalden]

95. Yes, It Saves Time When Performing Menial Repetitive Tasks

<< My response to your other post stands...>>

That's nice. As does my response to yours. It looks like we're at an impasse. Oh well. :hi:

[flvegan]

97. You have however left a big, hanging accusation out there

that you haven't provided any info upon.

Seems, you know, kind of...inappropriate.

We can be at an impasse all day on a topic. That's what's great about this. So long as we agree on other things, right?

[arwalden]

104. No Accusation At All... Just Repeating Common Knowledge.

I'm not going to provide links and proof to you that the sky is blue simply because you want to argue that it's not.

<< Seems, you know, kind of...inappropriate. >>

No.. it seems, you know... kind of... STUPID. What reason to I have to indulge your vanity demands of me? -- NONE.

<< We can be at an impasse all day on a topic. That's what's great about this. So long as we agree on other things, right? >>

Yeah, right. I've seen other things you've posted. Such a thing is highly doubtful.

[flvegan]

109. Yawn. I could block and copy my "so you don't have any"

but I won't. It's late and you...er, we're all tired.

If you'd like to touch on my other posts, please do. I'm always open to discussion.

[arwalden]

115. Nice.

Your "almost" half-spoken self-interrupted ad-hominem attacks are very clever. That's three times tonight.

<< If you'd like to touch on my other posts, please do. I'm always open to discussion. >>

I've made my point. And clearly I've touched a nerve. The truth hurts.

[flvegan]

117. You seem to be getting frustrated.

I understand.

[arwalden]

126. I Seem To Have Touch A Nerve... I Understand... The Truth Hurts.

[flvegan]

129. Keep trying...you'll get there.

That type of crap, doesn't work on me like it does you.

I have to laugh at that.

Sorry.

[arwalden]

132. Indeed I Have Touched A Nerve. You DO Know That Peta Are Criminals!

I knew it all along.

[AgadorSparticus]

144. so, what do you think about cindy sheehan and civil disobedience then?

since you mention the "reckless disregard for the rule of law".

Some PETA members may take it a little far, but then again, I think any activist group has members that can take it a bit far. But they don't represent the entire group.

[Maraya1969]

21. I've seen this before. In a rescue shelter the Head Honcho repeatedly

went on killing sprees. He would take litters of puppies and just kill them. (He is finally gone now.)

I wonder if the pressure of seeing animal abuse over and over can change people like soldiers sometimes lose it in war. I've volunteered in shelters and I had to stop finally because I was losing my mind over what was going on. In my case I never wanted to hurt an animal but I got very close to kicking the shit out of that man. And then trying to get someone else to do something, (to get that man out of the head position) takes a lot of time and it is very hard to get people to listen to you and/or get involved and all the while you are doing your best to try and make a changes you watch animals suffering all around you.

I've volunteered in other shelters also and it seems like there is always one (human) that is bat shit crazy.

[Joe Chi Minh]

26. I suspect they would get a similar kind of buzz out of it as

Shipman, and other so-called Munchausen by proxy "nurses", who've been caught "euthanasing" human beings.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Joe Chi Minh]

33. PETA sounds like our Royal Society for the Prevention of

Cruelty to animals (RSPCA) in the UK. They do a tremendous amount of good work for the protection and welfare of animals throughout the country.

However, some hunting people managed to secure positions at the top of the organisation, and that was not unlike having Herod for your baby-sitter, at least in principle.

I'm not sure those people are still there, as it's hardly an encouragement for most Brits who donate to them, to continue to do so. Most Brits loathe hunting and the scandalous class oppression it stood for. Running rough-shod over small farmers' fields, and paying scant if any compensation for damage to crops. Invading, in hot pursuit, the gardens/yards of poorer folk, their hounds not uncommonly killing the family cat.

If the people at the top of PETA are unphased by the arrant deception of the individuals here, as well as their putting those animals to sleep, then you do have a problem, I think; but you will always have "rotten apples" in the field, in any large organisation, no whit less for being a "caring" activity.

Punish those you can, but to rubbish such an organisation on the basis of either or both, is surely to "throw the baby out with the bath water", in a big way.

[crispini]

31. I am a bit curious about the condition of the rest of the animals,

which the article doesn't detail. I see that there are three cats which should have been found homes -- which, obviously, is not cool -- but were the rest of them sick or ill?

[flvegan]

35. I don't believe that they are releasing that data yet.

I do know that they've gathered a great deal of info, and it will likely be used in the trial.

[LisaL]

121. Well, one thing is clear-all of them are dead.

[OKthatsIT]

37. This smells like a 'set-up' to me

PETA wouldnt do this.

[AgadorSparticus]

39. me too. PETA stepped on some corporate toes and ever since, there

have been increasing image attacks on them.

[LisaL]

41. They got caught in the act of dumping bodies. People have been

finding bodies in that dumpster for a long time before they finally got caught, they contacted police, and police caught these two in the act. HTF do you think they were set up?
By aliens from outer space?

[AgadorSparticus]

69. this is what i don't understand about du. why the need for such

hostility? your rudeness is not necessary. christ. while i respect your difference of opinion, do you have to be so nasty about it?

but to answer you: corporations have long been involved in dubious activities (to say the least). it isn't that big of a stretch to say that the corporations would hire operatives to go in and purposely make PETA look bad. PETA says that this procedure of dumping animals in dumpsters is not part of their protocols in any way, shape or form. and these two people strayed from the protocols.

it could be that these two were just misinformed. but i find it hard to believe that people who work for an organization whose name advocates the ETHICAL treatment of animals would engage in this behavior on their own accord.

[LisaL]

73. What is it that you are questioning? They work for Peta.

Peta suspended a woman for 90 days, and didn't even suspend a man. Peta is paying for their lawyers. The bodies have been dumped in that dumpster all summer. That's how police got involved. The two got caught in the act of dumping bodies, and dead bodies were found in their van. How do you think corporations staged it? Did they kidnap the original Peta employees and replaced them with clones?

[AgadorSparticus]

105. no. and no need to be condescending. what has crossed my mind

is that they were hired to go work at PETA and make trouble that would compromise PETA's public image.

[LisaL]

114. Then why is Peta paying their legal fees?

Why is Peta keeping one of them on the job, and only suspended the other one for 90 days?

[flvegan]

118. I already addressed it. You ignored it.

I'll alert the media. The shock value alone...

[arwalden]

107. You're Right... Assault And Vandalism Is More Their Style

[flvegan]

111. Another post that I'll bet can't be backed up.

C'mon...do it. Let embarrassment run it's course...

[arwalden]

119. Peta Lovers Must Live In Some Fantasy World...

... to be completely oblivious to the criminal acts, assault, vandalism, trespassing. :eyes:

[flvegan]

125. Broad brushing again?

Bear in mind, there are a LOT of libs AND DUers in that group...

[arwalden]

127. Having Liberal Members Does Not Excuse Their Criminal Behavior.

Nor does it explain the fantasy world that Peta live in.

[flvegan]

130. What criminal behavior are you implying of our liberal members?

And who is the "their" to which you refer?

[arwalden]

134. Peta's Criminal Behavior. -- I've Implied Nothing.

I've stated facts.

[BrklynLiberal]

38. The letter I received from PETA about this situation

Thank you for contacting PETA about the North Carolina situation. That
means you care, and we wish everyone did.

Please forgive this form response. We are getting hundreds of e-mail
messages, calls, and letters every day about all sorts of issues, which means that it is impossible to reply to each one personally. We do want to underscore the fact that despite this form response, we take your concerns very seriously, and all comments we receive regarding this situation are being reviewed by our senior staff as well as staff involved in our Domestic Animals Department.

First, the report from North Carolina regarding the dumping of animal
bodies in a Dumpster by a PETA staff member is deeply upsetting. It is
against PETA's policy to put the bodies of euthanized animals in
Dumpsters, as you might imagine, and we are appalled that a member of
our staff apparently did that. Despite the fact that we know this woman to be a caring soul and someone who has done much selfless work to help animals, there is no excuse for what happened. As an initial result, she has been suspended. We have launched our own investigation of the circumstances surrounding this case.

Because there has also been a great deal of misinformation in the news about this case and its circumstances, we want to provide you with some additional background information-something the media has not done.

We started working in North Carolina in 2000, after PETA was contacted
by a police officer who was distressed by conditions in a county pound. North Carolina has the second-highest rate per capita of euthanasia in the country-35 animals killed annually for every 1,000 residents. Most do not die a humane death. When we step in to humanely euthanize animals-at no cost to the participating shelters-as we did in this instance, our involvement prevents animals from being shot to death with a .22 caliber firearm, being gassed to death in an old, rusty metal box, injected with a paralytic that causes slow suffocation without loss of consciousness, suffering for weeks on end from disease and illness, or worse. In some of those places, dogs had drowned in floods and frozen to death in winter.

We are a "shelter of last resort," offering a humane death to animals
who would otherwise suffer a slow and painful end. To learn more about
the conditions that led to our involvement in these North Carolina
counties, and some of the many improvements we've been able to make,
please visit http://www.HelpingAnimals.com/f-nc.asp.

Sadly, the shelters we work with in North Carolina also have no adoption programs or hours set aside for adoption. In fact, most of them have no staff on site. PETA has begged for years, through formal proposals and numerous meetings, for officials to allow us to implement an adoption program as part of a larger picture of shelter improvements that would also include a spay/neuter program, a humane education program, 24/7 emergency services, and rabies clinics.

It is important to add that PETA does not run an adoption facility
ourselves - we refer most adoptable animals to known shelters open to
public traffic, although we have managed to place 360 animals in
excellent, lifelong homes in just the past year. There is, in fact, a
North Carolina dog called Dovey in our office as this is written.
It is also PETA policy that no one on our staff is ever to give anyone the impression that animals we accept are being taken for placement.From what we have been able to determine in this situation, the shelters from which our staff picked up the dogs were fully aware of this fact, although it may be politic for them to deny that now, given the outcry.

It is our policy as well that the vast majority of animals we accept are only those who are in terrible conditions or unadoptable for some
reason, such as aggression or sickness in old age.

We wish that there were other options available. We cannot bring the
majority of animals back to Virginia for placement. The same issues
regarding adoptability of injured, sick, or old animals exist
everywhere, including here, and "all-admission" shelters (those which,
unlike "turn-away"-so-called "no-kill"-shelters, never turn their backs on any animal) are, as in the rest of the country, already unable to cope with the overpopulation of unwanted animals and cannot find enough homes for all of them. Using Virginia shelters also means that there would be fewer homes for animals already in Virginia adoption facilities.

Some might argue that the solution to this crisis of overpopulation of
so many unwanted animals is to open sanctuaries. But the sad reality is that the math doesn't add up. There is not enough money available to us or anyone to build enough sanctuaries or organize enough animal-adoption programs to keep up with the number of unwanted animals, particularly those animals deemed "undesirable" because of their infirmities, age, or behavior. And putting all your resources into fostering and kenneling unwanted animals does nothing to stop the flow of more and more unwanteds. The source of the problem - trying to stop future unwanteds from being born-is where the money needs to go.

We believe that the spaying and neutering of animals, supported by
appropriate local laws, is the single most effective tool in reducing
the number of unwanted animals. For that reason, our humane education
and outreach programs promote spaying and neutering. Our goal is to
create a society where every dog and cat has a loving home. We have
always advocated fixing the problems of overpopulation through practical methods, including encouraging people not to patronize pet shops or breeders. Those stories, however, rarely get coverage in the media.
As well as paying for sterilization of animals in North Carolina, we run a mobile spay/neuter clinic here in Virginia seven days a week. It focuses much of its work in disadvantaged neighborhoods, where we offer free and low-cost surgeries and other services such as flea/tick
treatments and worming. In the last year, we have sterilized more than
7,600 dogs and cats, including feral animals - many free of charge and
all others at well below our own costs. To date, we have sterilized
nearly 25,000 in our clinic. Support for this program is much needed, as you can imagine.

PETA has always spoken openly about euthanasia, on our Web site and in our publications, and-while we understand that it is upsetting to learn about-it is necessary in this imperfect world, and we hope you understand that it is gut-wrenching for those of us at PETA and at shelters across the country who care deeply for animals to have to hold animals in our arms and take their lives because there is nowhere decent for them to go. Euthanasia will continue to be necessary until people prevent dogs and cats from bringing new litters into the world and as long as people hide their heads in the sand and leave the dirty work to others.

We hope this has shed some light on what happened, our policies, and our work. Our Web site http://www.HelpingAnimals.com
may also be useful for additional information. Thank you for caring enough to ask about this.
Sincerely,
The PETA Staff
http://www.PETA.org <http://www.peta.org/>

[La Femme]

50. PETA

"It is also PETA policy that no one on our staff is ever to give anyone the impression that animals we accept are being taken for placement. From what we have been able to determine in this situation, the shelters from which our staff picked up the dogs were fully aware of this fact, although it may be politic for them to deny that now, given the outcry."

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I wil no longer give money or have anthing to do with PETA. I prefer to give my money and time to agencies that are no kill. I never in a million years would have thought they would go to pick up animals just to kill them. Why not just leave them at the shelter to be killed if no home is likely to be found? The fact that PETA is sending people out to collect and kill animals is upsetting.

[flvegan]

54. You should really look into the truth behind "no-kill" shelters.

Would it be better if these animals were gassed to death? Shot with a .22?

PETA provided an alternative to what these "shelters" were doing before PETA was involved. PETA has also been VERY open about making certain all parties involved were WELL aware that they were a last-chance, last resort shelter. So...

BTW, most no-kill shelters are limited intake. They turn animals away because they don't want to euthanize them. So what happens? Those animals wind up elsewhere to be euthanized. Someone still pushes the needle, and the animal still dies. Some just can't bring themselves to do it (or lose donations by doing it).

[LeftyMom]

58. They're humanely euthanizing them

to spare them the grizlier deaths they'd otherwise face- namely gas or a small-caliber bullet to the head.

It's not PETA's fault there's simply nowhere to go. Keeping these animals in some overcrowded shelter with inadequate socialization and little hope of finding a family to love them is not a permanent solution. The fact is that we simply have more animals than homes to take them and until the human irresponsibility that causes that problem changes, many otherwise adoptable animals will be euthanized. I would argue that that's the greater moral crime here, not that these animals were dumped (which is tragic and distressing, not to mention really fucking gross) but that human irresponsibility brought them to the shelter in the first place.

[LisaL]

75. Humanly? These animals must have been killed in the van,

and the last ones could observe the first ones being murdered. Not only that, their bodies were dumped into the dumpster. That shows a lot of respect for these animals, doesn't it?
They threw them out like old trash, the humanitarians that they obviously are.

[flvegan]

82. Hey

Better they were gassed to death with 100 of their brethren and sistren as was done before PETA arrived?

Oh, wait...maybe better that a .22 was blasted into them MAYBE killing them instantly.

You appear to advocate an inhumane alternative.

[LisaL]

91. You keep talking about them being gassed to death.

What is it that you don't understand about at least some of them being highly adoptable animals? There was a mother cat and her kittens, deemed highly adoptable by the vet.
These animals could be in a home right now, if those two Peta employees didn't murder them.

[flvegan]

93. Since you were there, you can testify to this, right?

Go ahead and respond...I'll wait.

[LisaL]

98. Are you saying you were there?

:eyes:

[flvegan]

99. Nope, which is why I don't pass broad-brush assumptions

like some folks do.

Nor do I post things that may or may not be true, with the desire to see them in the light I'd like.

You DO know what I mean, right?

[LisaL]

113. Maybe you should read your posts. Didn't you just post

about these animals being gassed to death (or shot), unless those two angels of death euthanized them?
And then objected to me saying the animals could have found homes on account of me not being there?

[flvegan]

120. Nice try.

I posted that it would be cruel to gas these animals to death, which has been done in the past.

I objected to your assumption that these animals were adoptable. You weren't there, and therefore couldn't pass any judgment.

[LisaL]

123. The vet that gave Peta the animals claims they were highly

adoptable. He was there, therefore, he can pass judgment. I believe what he says.
As for you, I think that Peta could start going around kidnapping cats and dogs from homes and killing them, and you would still claim they are doing a good thing.

[flvegan]

128. Well, from what you've said

you believe what you read, based on what you believe.

hey...Bush is the most brilliant man I've ever met. That was written by someone as well.

However, keep the bullshit personal attacks to yourself, okay?

Kidnapping indeed. How deep does your hate run?

Nice thing is, I won't even alert. I want everyone to see what you posted...

[AgadorSparticus]

151. according to PETA they went into that area to provide ethical and

humane euthanasia of animals that would have been euthanized ANYWAYS.

PETA is there to make sure they are not going to suffer any more than they have to.

The disposal of the bodies is still under investigation and certainly not part of PETA's protocols.

[LeftyMom]

146. PETA as a whole

Obviously the beahvior of these two specific employees was illegal, against policy and highly inappropriate. That doesn't invalidate the efforts of the whole organization.

[Wind Dancer]

63. Thank you for contacting them & posting response.

The article didn't have a lot of details plus PETA has been targeted for years by many groups. I question everything.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flvegan]

68. PETA kooks?

PETA euthanizes animals, and that's no secret.

[arwalden]

72. And It's No Secret That PETA Has No Respect For The Law...

... yes, I think that Peta are kooks.

[flvegan]

83. You can't back that up, either...can you?

PETA the organization, or it's members, or it's campaigners or what?

Who, specifically, are these kooks you refer to so often?

[arwalden]

86. You Know How To Google As Well As Anyone...

... I'm not your girl Friday.

I'm afraid I cannot explain why you would not already be aware of these things. Such vanity demands will not be fulfilled by me... You'll just have to look it up for yourself.

[flvegan]

90. Again?

C'mon...originality, at least.

That's 3 of the very same post here.

Someone's...well...nevermind.

[arwalden]

101. Yes Again....

<< "Again?" Posted by flvegan C'mon...originality, at least. >>

That sounds a lot like a personal attack. You're suggesting that *I* lack originality?

<< That's 3 of the very same post here. >>

Yes... it was intentional. Annoying, isn't it?

<< Someone's...well...nevermind. >>

Go on. Please continue. Let it all out. What did you want to say about ME?

[flvegan]

116. About you?

Nothing. Well, nothing negative. I respect you as another DUer, and a liberal. We just can't come to terms on issues like this, no matter how much I'd like to. We can agree to disagree, which I've tried with you. Just not there, though...

You're my liberal brother, and I love you for that. I'll bet we agree on a ton of other shit...

You'll please notice the lack of a sarcasm smilie. I mean it.

[arwalden]

122. Oh Brother...

<< You're my liberal brother, and I love you for that. I'll bet we agree on a ton of other shit... You'll please notice the lack of a sarcasm smilie. I mean it. >>

That's highly improbable.

If you're going to bandy about the word "love" like that... you'll just have to excuse me while I stand waaaay over here. Dude, you're seriously creeping me out.

[flvegan]

133. We're both liberals, right?

Both DUers? We believe in MUCH of the same things, right? We disagree on this one thing. Tell me I'm wrong...

Sorry I creep you out. Guess I see shit differently than you do. That's cool, too, though.

[arwalden]

136. ~

<< "We're both liberals, right?" Both DUers? We believe in MUCH of the same things, right? We disagree on this one thing. Tell me I'm wrong... >>

That's highly doubtful.

<< Sorry I creep you out. Guess I see shit differently than you do. That's cool, too, though. >>

Thank goodness.

[flvegan]

137. Like I said

sorry you lack tolerance. I tried.

Bye.

[arwalden]

140. Nice. More ad-hominem attacks on the messenger?

<<sorry you lack tolerance. I tried.>>

It's not about me. It's about Peta kooks and their criminal tactics.

<< Bye.>>

Promise?

[WhollyHeretic]

94. There is no need for facts, they're kooks I tell you kooks.

kooks kooks kooks kooks kooks kooks kooks kooks kooks kooks kooks kooks
So there! There is no way you could possibly argue against such a well reasoned and rational argument.

[flvegan]

96. Oh, man

I wish I had waited another 45 minutes to read this. It'd been my first big damn laugh of the day.

[LeftyMom]

138. thank you

I have had just about the most fucked up day in the history of fucked up days but your post had me :rofl:

[WhollyHeretic]

149. Glad to be of service

I'm sorry to hear you had such a shitty day, I hope you're doing better tonight. :hug:

[LeftyMom]

150. Awww thanks

:hugs: I'm just having family drama today. :(

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flvegan]

79. Back up your post, please.

Are you saying that anyone acting in the forum of animal rights is a kook? Or are you just saying that those that support PETA are kooks?

Especially, the assault charge. I'd like to see a link backing that one up...

[arwalden]

87. You Know How To Google As Well As Anyone...

... I'm not your girl Friday.

I'm afraid I cannot explain why you would not already be aware of these things. Such vanity demands will not be fulfilled by me... You'll just have to look it up for yourself.

<< Especially, the assault charge. I'd like to see a link backing that one up... >>

Oh brother! Either you're joking, or you just don't get out that much.

[flvegan]

92. Again? Is that 4 times, the same post? That just tells me

you haven't anything to back that shit up.

Big fucking shock.

[arwalden]

103. That Just Tells Me...

... that you don't get out much. Unless you've been living under a rock, you know of Peta's terrorist tactics, assault, and harassment as well as anyone.

What makes you think that I'd be inclined to do reasearch and post links in response to your snippy little flames?

"Big fucking shock", indeed!

:eyes:

[flvegan]

106. Exaclty.

What makes me think you'd do research. Silly me.

Thanks for that one.

[arwalden]

110. Indeed... Silly You.

<< What makes me think you'd do research. >>

For you? Never. Certainly not to indulge your vanity demands. I do not take orders from you. Learn to cope.

[flvegan]

112. Not for me, pal.

For your post. You have nothing to back it up. I want you to do so.

Part this whole discussion thing that we're doing, is being able to provide resources...which, sorry but...you can't.

Run all you want.

[arwalden]

124. Chase All You Want...

... I'll never endulge your vanity demands. Cope.

I guess the truth is a little difficult to take. Either that, or Peta must exist in some alternate reality.

[Endangered Specie]

143. PETA: not only a bunch of loonies, but a bunch of hypocrites...

imagine that.

[arwalden]

147. (Gasp!) Imagine!

[flvegan]

148. The organization or it's members?

[southlandshari]

152. Locking

In order to keep the peace tonight.

From DU's discussion forum rules:

"Please note that sweeping statements about entire groups of fellow progressives are not categorically forbidden. However, they are often inflammatory and counterproductive and the moderators have broad discretion to remove such posts in the interests of keeping the peace on the message board."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html


southlandshari
DU Moderator