Ford plans 'significant' closings, layoffs

[Algorem]

http://www.morningjournal.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15428172&BRD=1699&PAG=461&dept_id=46371&rfi=6

DEARBORN -- Ford Motor Co., its profits dragged down by continuing poor performance in North America, will announce ''significant'' U.S. plant closings and layoffs in January in another heavy blow to the nation's autoworkers. The company reported a third-quarter loss of $284 million yesterday.

A Ford source said yesterday that as many as seven plants could be shuttered in the near future, and that Ford would make that announcement in January.

The source said those plant closings likely would include transmission and stamping plants in addition to assembly plants.

''If Ford is going to get back into being competitive, they're going to have to do something drastic,'' the source said...

[Orrin_73]

1. The economy sure is growing

""""sarcasm""""

[no_hypocrisy]

2. Closing seven plants -- won't that knock off the remaining ones in

this country?

[HockeyMom]

38. We have a friend who works

at the plant in Buffalo. He is about 3 years away from retirement. About 6 or 7 years ago he told us that his boss would tell them they were lucky they even had a job, and this plant would eventually close too and relocate to China. Only a matter of time, he was told.

[formercia]

3. Who could have guessed

that a fuel shortage would drive consumers to buying more efficient vehicles. I feel sorry for the workers who will lose their jobs, but for management I have only scorn.

Here's one for the bean counters that drove management to build big vehicles with high margins.

[blueknight]

5. same way with the airlines

95% of their problems are management related. they are top heavy in management and EXTREMELY overpaid!

[Algorem]

8. THEY need to be aggressively targeted,not workers and families.

[Kolesar]

10. The Focus has stunningly good fuel economy

There are four fine compacts that get great fuel economy: Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, Toyota Matrix (is a Corolla), and the Ford Focus at 26/35, I recall. To do better, you would have to go with a hybrid or a dirty diesel.

[formercia]

12. Ford can make economical cars

I owned a Ford in '82 that got 47 MPG on the highway. The problem is what percentage of revenue do the compacts generate.Management looks at profit and goes with vehicles that generate the most revenue per unit. Their calls are not based on what's the right thing to do for the long term welfare of the planet. They were hired to make money.

A big vehicle that doesn't sell loses more money per unit.

[Kolesar]

13. That's a fair point.

Ford rested too long on the success of the Explorer, that was really a market leader. From 1992 on, the automakers just tried to recreate that moment of success with a series of lookalike dreadnoughts.

[mikeytherat]

18. I've got a '95 Escort Wagon - gets 35/43 MPG

Mostly Mazda running gear (engine, tranny; heck - the instrument pod is right out of my old GLC!). Great little car.

mikey_the_rat

[Castilleja]

22. My husband's 95 Escort gets more than 35, close to 40

and always has. Rarely needs work done. It is a gem. If a Focus gets 25/35, then I would call that a downgrade...

[RedRocco]

17. or a 25 y/o econo-box

my VWs all get more than 30 mpg

[bunkerbuster1]

23. ...but Ford has a new Focus they're selling in Europe and elsewhere

but not here, not in 2006. They're being penny-wise and pound-foolish by continuing to sell the old model another year, while the rest of the world gets a better car, based on the same platform used by the Mazda 3.

typical stupid shit by a company I've little to no respect for any more. (I used to think they were at least mildly agreeable, a few years ago, when they voluntarily raised the emmissions standards for some light-truck models to those for their passenger cars.)

[NickB79]

30. You forgot the Scion line by Toyota

My 2005 Scion xA is factory-rated at 32/38 city/highway. Actual mileage is 30 city, 40 highway, significantly better than the Ford Focus.

I looked into getting a Ford Focus before I purchased my Scion. The general consensus from owners I spoke with was that they are a "throw-away" car; after 75,000-100,000 miles you stop trying to repair them and get a new car because they fall apart.

[shoelace414]

4. Drastic like single payer health insurance

[Deja Q]

6. Cutting CEO pay might be a nice thing to do too. I mean THEY are the ones

who have to ensure profitability is made.

Why can't they suffer at their own mistakes too? :dunce:

[pitohui]

20. cut it how, ford hasn't accepted pay since 2001!

bill ford is one of the good guys, he has not accepted a salary since 2001

his only compensation is stock options which are based on the performance of the stock, if you've been following their stock this year you already know the dude is not making any money

i don't see how you can work for less than free

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0505/12/01-179859.htm

[Centered]

27. I don't remember who it was

But Michael Moore had a TV show where he challenged several CEOs to perform simple tasks directly related to their respective industries.

CEO IBM = format a floppy diskette
CEO Marlboro = Hand Roll a cigarette
CEO Ford = Add oil to a Ford pickup

I can remember that only the Ford CEO (who made less than the others btw) was up for the challenge. Michael Moore was actually invited to his house where the CEO actually demonstrated how to Change the oil in his own truck.

The IBM and Marlboro guys actually had Michael Moore removed from the offices.

Ever since that show I had to give Ford a little extra consideration.

Love him or hate him I really enjoyed that show.

[kstewart33]

7. Doing something drastic - like make good cars?

That's been Ford and GM's problem for years. I don't have much hope that they will figure that one out.

[SpeedwayDemocrat]

45. The 2005 Mustang is a GREAT CAR!

They've sold a ton of them, and those of us lucky enough to have one love them. I get tons of compliments from folks on the street, who I tell "The UAW makes a great car - you should go buy one!"
I guess the Mustang sales alone aren't enough to keep Ford solvent. The retro Mustang is the only bright spot in Ford's otherwise sad line up.

[gademocrat7]

9. We are spiraling toward a deep recession

How will these autoworkers sustain their families?

[gulfcoastliberal]

11. "Imports" make cars in US w/ US workers "domestics" make cars in Mexico

with Mexican workers earning pennies an hour. I'm never buying a "demoestic" car again.

"Import Brands" with American Factories:

Toyota
Honda
Nissan
Hyundai
Mercedes-Benz
BMW
Subaru

Big Three make their cars in Mexico and are rapidly eliminating all their US plants & jobs.

Be patriotic, buy a Toyota or one of those other American-made models next time:

Increasingly, those hot foreign brands are American-made

By Royal Ford
THE BOSTON GLOBE

September 17, 2005

Next time you see a new foreign-brand car, odds are it was made in America.

Toyotas, Hondas, Subarus, BMWs, Mercedes-Benzes, Hyundais and others – more than 40 models of foreign cars, minivans, SUVS and pickup trucks – are rolling off assembly lines at 15 plants in the United States so rapidly that last year brought an automotive tipping point.

For the first time, more foreign-brand cars sold in the United States were built here – 3.7 million – than were imported – 3.4 million – according to the Center for Automotive Research, a nonprofit auto analyst in Michigan.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050917/news_lz1d17foreign.html

Hey Bob Lutz, Ford, and Iacoca - GO FUCK YERSELVES you sellout rat fucks!

[leesa]

14. Don't worry folks. The CEOs will be fine.

[are_we_united_yet]

16. amen

:(

[ryanmuegge]

36. Yeah, it's their investment and capital, not people buying shit,

that drives the economy, you know? ;)

[Javaman]

15. If any American car manufacturer ever put out a low cost hybrid...

They would make a windfall.

There dino mindset is what is killing them.

[hogwyld]

19. Don't forget lack of quality also

Who would buy an American rattletrap when the Japanese cars are so much better in quality for the same price. Also, better resale value. The big 3 are history, and maybe won't come back.

[Centered]

24. they are all "american cars"

The rumored Japanese Quality is a great way to make people spend more money. For Example take the Mitsubishi Eclipse... aka Eagle Talon... aka Plymouth Laser they were all the same car with different options sold as stock... quess which model had the LEAST stock options but sold for more money?

Even Honda's are made here (and in Japan)

I'm not saying the Japanese don't make a great automobile... I'm only saying that a car is pretty much a car when it is sold in the USA.

I feel bad people are going to loose their jobs hopefully they will be able to go to college (or back) and find something else.

[meganmonkey]

28. Exactly. If I get shit from one more person about driving my Hyundai

while their Ford was probably assembled in Mexico I think I will puke.

Hyundai just created 750 jobs near Ann Arbor, MI, which is a hell of a lot more than the Big Three can say.

Southeast Michigan is not a friendly area for a Hyundai driver

:(

[musiclawyer]

32. Man, I want the new Alabama-made Sonata so bad

I saw my first one in person on the road today; black, tinted windows all around, leather, a zillion air bags, highly rated by all the pro-auto writers. It makes the Camry and Accords look like grandma's car. And it's way less expensive.

[kineneb]

40. keep driving your Hyundai, I am on my 2nd from them

I would have liked to purchase an American-made car at the time, but none were making a small station wagon-type car (with 30 MPG). And the first Hyundai had 176K on it before I traded it in. So I laugh at all the bourgemobile drivers while they mourn at the gas pump. Hang in there.

[reprobate]

21. And we all watch as the American Capitalist model destroys itself.

Many of us have been saying for years that the American model of capitalism is inherently self destructive.

It's based on the idea that profit from each quarter must be higher than that for the previous quarter. To ensure that management is paid insanely high compensation, then stacks the BOD so that there is no responsibility on them when they don't meet stockholder's expectations. So it's not management that suffers in a downturn but the very workers that make the products that ensure management's high lifestyle.

It's long past time that the model was revised. It's the stockholders, mainly the large institutional funds that drive this crazy spiral. With the exception of IPOs the stock market is nothing more than an institutionalized casino, where everybody bets, but few have any idea how to do it. An honest system would have corps raise money not thru stock issues, but thru bonds. Bonds are honest loans from people to corps, with a repayment date and stated dividends.


Company stocks should be limited to company employees. This would guarantee employee long term loyalty and individual profit interest in having the company grow long term. It would also tend to drive the company in an environmentally friendly trend, since the individuals who would own the stock are much closer to the environment than any institutional investor. And it would ensure that management was compensated in a more rational manor, and be responsible to the average employee.

I also believe that there should be a limit on the size of corporations, since the larger they grow the further they are from the control of the employees.


But, most importantly, the concept of 'corporate personhood' must be killed once and for all.

Perhaps the one silver lining behind the coming depression will be that EVERYONE will want changes in the current paradigm.

[Ezlivin]

25. Kill the corporate personhood!

It's ironic how corporations seem to get all the benefits of being declared a person without any of the concomitant accountability.

[Megahurtz]

26. More and more people out of jobs,

again.:hurts:

[tinrobot]

29. Boy, those tax cuts sure are working!

Sarcasm aside, this is very sad.

[pinniped]

31. Looks like the reverse-job machine is revving up again.

What does Snowjob the Job Creator have to say about this?

[twaddler01]

33. something better change soon

or these companies like Ford are gonna lose out on more....of course, we won't use any other resource except oil as long as Bushco is in charge....

[SuperWonk]

34. *bump*

My thought is that American car companies are never going to get a fair shake when their foreign competitors (ie Toyota) have so many advantages, especially in the states!

[Trashman]

35. Well

I love my Toyota, and it was made in the USA.

[salin]

37. guess it is time to kiss goodbye those sales based on "american made"

cars. Given that the cars aren't necessarily getting more competitive on their own - I would imagine that this move would, ironically, hurt sales more than help them. Granted - in reality Toyota and other foreign car manufacturers have moved more plants to the US - and parts are made all over, so that it is hard these days to say what is "american made" and what isn't... but for the many buyers who hadn't yet made that distinction - and for who this mattered - I would imagine a change in buying patterns might be just around the corner.

[SuperWonk]

39. Hmmmmm...

"I love my Toyota, and it was made in the USA."

What makes you say this?

Just because they say it in their advertising, don't believe it.
They do have plants here, but that doesn't necessarily mean squat. They are getting huge tax breaks, and most of the car is still made abroad, and might actually be assembled here. You have to read between the lines.

[SkyIsGrey]

41. If you want to learn a little..

about Ford, I suggest this site, Flaterate Tech. Go to the "Open Topic" form, and have a read( though you have to be registerd to post).

[jmowreader]

42. How to fix Ford

Ford really excels in three classes of vehicles: cars that do not say Ford on them, full-size light trucks (the F-150, F-250 and F-350), and medium trucks (the F-350 through F-750 and the LCF).

(On edit: I better explain how the F-350 can appear in both the light truck and the medium truck categories. Ford sells this truck two ways: as a pickup and as a "cab chassis." If you want to buy an F-350 and turn it into a wrecker or an ambulance, you'll get the cab chassis--a pickup with no bed--and received this way it's a very small medium truck. If you get it with a pickup bed on it, it's still a light truck.)

Fixing Ford will be easier than fixing GM for two reasons: Ford isn't as big as GM, and most of what Ford makes is not crap.

Step one is to get rid of every Ford car except the Mustang and the Crown Victoria. I'd keep the Mustang because it's a good car that sells well. The Crown Vic will be addressed in Step Four.

Step two is to rebadge Mazdas as Fords. They already do this to a certain extent--the Ranger is a Mazda B-series pickup, the Escape is a Mazda, the Probe was a Mazda, IIRC the Focus is a Mazda--but to fix Ford, just make the whole stinkin' line except for the Mustang out of Mazdas with blue ovals on them. And because Ford owns Mazda, there won't be a problem with moving these cars' production to US factories.

Step three is to move the Expedition into Ford's commercial line. Add weight to the thing. Make it bigger and bulkier. In fact, make it just big and bulky enough that you need a CDL to drive it. This way, the people who really need the Expedition because they're hauling six workers with all their tools to jobsites can get Expeditions, but the motoring public will be dissuaded.

Step four is to move the Crown Victoria into the commercial line. Who buys Crown Vics? Lots of people: police department purchasing offices, fire department purchasing offices, large corporations, senior citizens and total assholes. (Total assholes buy these fucking things in white so they can drive around at dusk or after the bars close and tailgate people--if you have a white Crown Vic on your ass at 7pm or (worse) 3am, the first thing that goes through everyone's mind is "I have a cop on my tail.") Except for the seniors and the total assholes, everyone who buys Crown Victorias buys in bulk. It's a commercial vehicle, and should be sold as such. (This will also keep the Crown Vic out of the hands of dickheads.)

[Marie26]

43. Do they have any idea which plants are closing?

My entire hometown pretty much depends on the Ford plant.

[SuperWonk]

44. True-

"in reality Toyota and other foreign car manufacturers have moved more plants to the US - and parts are made all over, so that it is hard these days to say what is 'american made' and what isn't..."

Very true.
I always shake my head when Toyota claims to be "made in the usa"... We all know it isn't true.

[SpeedwayDemocrat]

46. St. Louis might be the first to go...

as it makes the Explorers, as does Louisville. The Louisville Courier-Journal speculated that Louisville would stay open, as it is closer to the parts suppliers and can handle the capacity needed, even if St. Louis is shuttered.

[SuperWonk]

47. Anyone?

Out of curiosity, does anyone care about this issue of car manufacturers falsely claiming their cars are made in the states?

PTI...