Goodwill Envoy Hughes Claims Saddam Gassed 'Hundreds of Thousands'

[Hissyspit]

Her second very public gaffe, I believe. I'm so glad we have a complete idiot as our "goodwill" envoy. It makes the rest of the world want us to rid them of the Bush administration that much sooner. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't she retire once before?

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBFUQSI2FE.html

Goodwill Envoy Hughes Claims Saddam Hussein Gassed 'Hundreds of Thousands' of Iraqis

By Chris Brummitt Associated Press Writer

Published: Oct 21, 2005
JAKARTA, Indonesia (AP) - U.S. envoy Karen Hughes on Friday defended Washington's decision to go to war against Iraq in front of a skeptical audience, saying Saddam Hussein had gassed to death "hundreds of thousands" of his own people. A State Department official later said she misspoke about the number.

- snip -

"The consensus of the world intelligence community was that Saddam was a very dangerous threat," Hughes said days after the ousted dictator went on trial in Baghdad on charges of murder and torture in a 1982 massacre of 148 Shiites in the town of Dujail. "After all, he had used weapons of mass destruction against his own people," she told a small auditorium with around 100 {Indonesian} students. "He had murdered hundreds of thousands of his own people using poison gas."

Although at least 300,000 Iraqis are said to have been killed during Saddam's decades-long rule - only about 5,000 are believed to have been gassed to death in a 1988 attack in the Kurdish north.

MORE

[Barrett808]

1. "Misspoke" -- right. n/t

[Hissyspit]

5. misspoke AGAIN

Didn't she retire once to go back to her family? That was the correct decision.

[EFerrari]

2. She must be on crack. n/t

[Gyre]

3. Just another fine example of the awesome mental power of this WH!

On display for everybody to see. The people of the world are not going to wait forever for us to throw these mental midgets into prison.

[elehhhhna]

4. she meant "brazillions".

[Hissyspit]

6. *snicker*

[jobycom]

22. I needed that chuckle! nt.

[liberal N proud]

7. How many have died at the hands of George W. Bu$h?

How many Iraqis have been killed in the illegal attack on Iraq by the United States that was ordered by bu$h?
Lets compare the two here, there is a legitimate purpose in doing so. If the invasion/occupation has killed as many or more then the reason is invalid.

[400Years]

13. How many have died in Iraq due to the U.S. in general from Bush Sr. to now

a million children died during those 10 years of sanctions

[leesa]

8. Yup. "misspoke"...but that's the number the BushBots quote

And if you subtract the number that were killed because we abandoned them after the Gulf War, he's killed less than Dubya has in a few years.

[rodeodance]

9. this has been a talking point of the Right since day one (and it worked/

works or many). yes old-but repetion works.



.......U.S. envoy Karen Hughes on Friday defended Washington's decision to go to war against Iraq in front of a skeptical audience, saying Saddam Hussein had gassed to death "hundreds of thousands" of his own people. A State Department official later said she misspoke about the number.

[rodeodance]

10. Hughes is finding out that people are not stupid yet she continues to

blow the horn for the WH.

....Hughes, undersecretary of state for public diplomacy, made the comment before a group of Indonesian students who repeatedly attacked her about Washington's original rationale for the war, Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction. No such arms were ever discovered.

[jobycom]

24. She's used to dealing with Americans. Now she's dealing with people who

actually know the facts and won't just nod and say "wow."

[Olney Blue]

67. Yes, but pre-screened and scripted Americans.......

this administration has been one big propaganda machine.

[Cha]

68. And who else are the planet

has killed their own people and yet had no oil and we didn't bomb them back to the stone age?

[cassiepriam]

11. And how many have we killed, raped, tortured,maimed??

[400Years]

12. why don't they show any quotes from the indonesian students?

They always write these stories loaded with talking points from the admin but they hardly ever quote those who are questioning them.

btw, you don't have to answer my question, it was rhetorical.

[rodeodance]

14. "the world intelligence community" umm...

"The consensus of the world intelligence community was that Saddam was a very dangerous threat," Hughes said days after the ousted dictator went on trial in Baghdad on charges of murder and torture in a 1982 massacre of 148 Shiites in the town of Dujail. "After all, he had used weapons of mass destruction against his own people," she told a small auditorium with around 100 students. "He had murdered hundreds of thousands of his own people using poison gas."

[rodeodance]

19. she also talked of the burned bodies in afgan.

Hughes also said the video of alleged desecration of the bodies of Taliban fighters in Afghanistan by U.S. soldiers was "abhorrent."

"The important thing that the world needs to know is that it is a violation of our policy," she said.

[rodeodance]

20. "good will envoy" translates to "bush policy envoy"

[MaineYooper]

36. I'd go further: bush propaganda envoy

She's so freakin' stupid, it makes my head throb...

[Garbo 2004]

50. Funny, Colin & I think even Condi: Saddam posed no significant threat

so they said in early 2001.

Now Hughes said there was a "consensus" in international intel community? Uh, no. Not even a consensus in US intel community, including the State Dept she nows works for. The only consensus was that created in the OSP and fed to the American public by Hughes' WHIG cohorts and shills like Judy Miller.

And still they perpetuate their fiction to try to cover for the fact their intell wasn't "flawed" or merely mistaken, it was purposely manufactured, built to suit the Bush war agenda.

[superconnected]

15. 5000 gassed?

"Although at least 300,000 Iraqis are said to have been killed during Saddam's decades-long rule - only about 5,000 are believed to have been gassed to death in a 1988 attack in the Kurdish north. "

Chilling.

Of course the bush admin isn't better but still, gassing people deservers a death sentence in my opinion. I consider it mass murder.

Sadam is not any better than bush.

[anotherdrew]

18. of course the republicans denied it happened at the time.

[Thrasybulus]

26. 1988 Prevention of Genocide Act

In response to the gassing of the Kurds the US Senate voted unanimously to impose sanctions against Saddam. Reagan administration killed the bill in the House.

Al Gore was one of seven co-sponsors of that bill.

More details

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/09/29/155243

[jobycom]

27. No, but flip that

Hussein is not better than Bush. Flip that. Is Bush better than Hussein? 100K+ dead in the Iraqi invasion to avenge 5,000? Tens of thousands (maybe another 100K) dead in Afghanistan to avenge 3,000, and we didn't even get the person we claimed did it to us?

The kurds were gassed during the war with Iran--a war in which Ronald Reagan funded or supplied both sides. The Kurdish town that was gassed was occupied by Iran, and it was gassed in the course of trying to take it back from Iran. So it was during a war that may have ended sooner if we weren't egging it on, we continued to encourage Hussein to fight after it happened, we sent an envoy (Rumsfield) to reassure Hussein that we weren't going to oppose him over it, and then twenty years later we used it as one of many constantly rotating and squirming excuses for an invasion.

I'm not forgiving Hussein, he's a bloody tyrant and I don't symapthize with him one bit. But he killed 300,000 of his own people over twenty to thirty years. We've killed or caused the deaths of almost half that in less than three years.

If you add in the quarter million Bush Daddy's war killed to avenge the thousands killed when Iraq invaded Kuwait, then the two Bushes have killed more Iraqis than Hussein by a long shot.

[0007]

30. Good post.

The U.S. doesn't want to talk about the supplier of the gas and technology help from satellites that Saddam received. Or the fact that high up U.S. officials knew what was about to happen.

[callady]

47. Don't forget

the 1.5-3 million that perished due to sanctions. Most of those were children and most during the Clinton years. When interviewed by Leslie Stahl Clinton's Secretary of State M. Albright said "I think it was worth it"

[jobycom]

56. That's a bit more complicated

I opposed the continuation of the sanctions after the mid 90s, so I'm not excusing them. But.

First, that estimate goes up more after the fact than the length of the fish caught by grandpa last summer on the lake. Used to be one million.

Second, that's not a count, that's an estimate by a group with a vested interest in making the number as high as possible.

Third, the estimate is over a ten year period, and is based on an assumption of how many people died of all causes, as opposed to how many might have died if the sanctions weren't in place. Given Hussein's money and resource management skills, that's a shift number to base a count on.

Fourth, Hussein had some control over whether the sanctions continued.

Fourth, the alternative was probably war. The sanctions were put in place in lieu of invading Iraq. Without the sanctions, one of two things could have happened. Hussein could have continued his military presence and wound up using his military, and possibly WMDs (he was working on them at one time, he had just destroyed the program before Bush invaded), or two, the Republicans or Israel would have pressured us to invade, anyway. Clinton might have done it, though I'd like to think he'd have done it differently.

None of those points are true of direct military attack. When we bomb civilians targets, they die unambiguously, and there are no extenuating circumstances adding to the deaths.

If you believe a million died, then maybe W was right. Maybe we should have invaded sooner, killed a quarter million people, and saved three quarter million lives. I don't believe that, but then again, I don't believe the death rate in Iraq would have been a million lower without the sanctions.

[callady]

59. For Accurate Facts and Figures Go Here

Half A Million Children Under Five Are Dead and Dying in Iraq, Who is Responsible?
 
An Interview with Denis Halliday Former Assistant Secretary-General of The United Nations

  By: David Edwards

According to Unicef, the United Nations Childrens Fund, 4,000 more children under five are dying every month in Iraq than would have died before Western sanctions were imposed. Over the eight years that these sanctions have been in place, 500,000 extra children under five are estimated to have died.

These are extraordinary figures that lead directly to the question of responsibility. For citizens of Western democracies it seems almost inconceivable that we could be to blame. We have grown up in the sure knowledge that the West is a cradle of democracy and human rights, a centre of civilisation and sanity. During the Kosovo crisis last year, President Clinton insisted, We are upholding our values and advancing the cause of peace. We cannot respond to such tragedies everywhere, but when ethnic conflict turns into ethnic cleansing where we can make a difference, we must try, and that is clearly the case in Kosovo. Likewise, Prime Minister Blair declared that Kosovo was a new kind of war in which we were fighting for values - a logical step, given that Blair had previously announced, We will make the protection and promotion of human rights a central part of our foreign policy.

<snip>

The Guardian today reported Iraqs rejection of UN Resolution 1284 on the grounds that it indicated no end to sanctions and arms inspections. Whats your view of 1284?

Von Sponeck and I have exactly the same view: its designed to fail, this programme. First of all it took a year to assemble that resolution, if you can believe that. Secondly, it gives the Iraqis no specifics: it doesnt tell them exactly what is required, and when, in terms of disarming. Thirdly, if you listen to Scott Ritter, they have no nuclear, chemical or biological capacity left, but of course they have the mental capacity, and they have the scientists - some of them - and theyre always going to be there and theres nothing you can do about that. And Dr. Hans Blix, former Director-General of the International Atomic Energy Agency, very honestly, has said, Look, I can go in there 24 hours a day for ten years and I will never be able to say that there isnt a half a pound of chemical left behind, or whatever; its just impossible. And thats why this whole programme is futile. Weve got to reopen a dialogue with Iraq, like weve done with North Korea. We need to find out what the concerns of the Iraq government are now, what can be done for the future.

http://www.geocities.com/iraqinfo/index.html?page=/iraqinfo/sanctions/sanctions.html

October 4, 1996: United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) releases report on Iraq. "Around 4,500 children under the age of five are dying here every month from hunger and disease," said Philippe Heffinck, UNICEF's representative for Iraq. gopher://gopher.unicef.org/00/.cefdata/.prgva96/prgva35

October 3, 1997: A joint study by the United Nations' Food & Agriculture Organization and World Food Program, found the sanctions "significantly constrained Iraq's ability to earn foreign currency needed to import sufficient quantities of food to meet needs. As a consequence, food shortages and malnutrition became progressively severe and chronic in the 1990s." www.fao.org/WAICENT/faoinfo/economic/giews/english/alertes/srirq997.htm

November 26, 1997: UNICEF reports that "The most alarming results are those on malnutrition, with 32 per cent of children under the age of five, some 960,000 children, chronically malnourished -- a rise of 72 per cent since 1991. Almost one quarter (around 23 per cent) are underweight -- twice as high as the levels found in neighbouring Jordan or Turkey." Philippe Heffinck, UNICEF Representative in Baghdad: "And what concerns us now is that there is no sign of any improvement since Security Council Resolution 986/1111 came into force." www.unicef.org/newsline/97pr60.htm

Myth: "Thanks to the oil-for-food program, the people of Iraq, especially those in the north, are getting needed foods and medicines" (U.S. State Department, March 2000).

Fact: Former UN Humanitarian Coordinator in Iraq, Denis Halliday, oversaw the oil-for-food program and believes otherwise. "The OFF program as conceived is completely inadequate. It was designed in fact not to resolve the situation, but to prevent further deterioration of both mortality rates and malnutrition. It has failed to do that; at best it has just about sustained the situation. It's grossly under-funded, and it has not even begun to address the needs, the dietary needs of the Iraqi people. It's producing quantity at best, and even that amounts to about three weeks out of four in terms of need quantitatively. In terms of quality it falls very short. There are no animal proteins in the program, no vitamins, no minerals, so it's a very inadequate diet. And on top of that you have a medical sector which gobbles up the rest of the money to a great extent, so again we have not managed to provide the basic needs of the Iraqi people. There's a great shortage of antibiotics and all of the sophisticated drugs to which Iraq was used to, given the high standard of medical care prior to 1990. And the balance of the sectors that desperately need money, such as electric power production, domestic agriculture, education, water and sewage systems....there's really no serious money for an investment there, and that needs, I reckon, $40 to $50 billion dollars for rehabilitation and rebuilding those sectors. That's the situation right now" (The Fire This Time, April 1999). Halliday resigned from his post in September 1998 in protest of the sanctions against Iraq. He had worked for the UN for 34 years.

http://www.geocities.com/iraqinfo/index.html?page=/iraqinfo/sanctions/sanctions.html

Myth: "Sanctions are not intended to harm the people of Iraq" (U.S. State Department, March 2000).

Fact: Several United States Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) documents clearly and thoroughly prove, in the words of one author, "beyond a doubt that, contrary to the Geneva Convention, the U.S. government intentionally used sanctions against Iraq to degrade the country's water supply after the Gulf War. The United States knew the cost that civilian Iraqis, mostly children, would pay, and it went ahead anyway" (The Progressive, August 2001).

One document entitled "Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities," dated January 22, 1991, is quite straightforward in how sanctions will prevent Iraq from supplying clean water to its citizens. It begins, "Iraq depends on importing specialized equipment and some chemicals to purify its water supply, most of which is heavily mineralized and frequently brackish to saline. With no domestic sources of both water treatment replacement parts and some essential chemicals, Iraq will continue attempts to circumvent United Nations Sanctions to import these vital commodities. Failing to secure supplies will result in a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population. This could lead to increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease." The document later continues, "Iraq could try convincing the United Nations or individual countries to exempt water treatment supplies from sanctions for humanitarian reasons. It probably also is attempting to purchase supplies by using some sympathetic countries as fronts. If such attempts fail, Iraqi alternatives are not adequate for their national requirements" (U.S. Department of Defense, January 1991).

http://www.geocities.com/iraqinfo/index.html?page=/iraqinfo/sanctions/sanctions.html

For a complete list of articles go here:
http://www.geocities.com/iraqinfo/index.html?page=/iraqinfo/sanctions/sanctions.html

[jobycom]

64. Yeah. Which backs up what I was saying.

As you will see, if you read it closely and take out the spin.

[leftchick]

32. well saddam did not say he was giving them freedom and democracy

as he slaughtered them. Unlike the chimperor.

[Bridget Burke]

34. But Saddam is not on trial for the dead Kurds.

Because he was our ally back then.

[MountainLaurel]

35. One concern, however

Is that the 5000 figure refers to an incident along the Iraq-Iran border at a time when both countries were using chemical weapons. There's much speculation that the gassing in fact may not have been Iraqi at all. In fact, that was the U.S. government's perspective on the matter at the time it happened. Of course, since we had sold the chemical weapons to Iraq, we didn't want to appear to be party to mass murder. But nonetheless, it's all very murky.

[RaleighNCDUer]

40. At the time, we blamed it on Iran.

When it bacame expedient to do so, we blamed it on Iraq.

Now that we're agitating against Iran again, it's being floated repeatedly that it was Iran.

It makes little difference - we supplied both sides in that war. It's our fault.

[daleo]

52. There is plenty of evidence that Iran was actually responsible.

People differ on this point, but the blanket assertion that Saddam Hussein gassed civilians in Halabja is far from proven.

[dkofos]

58. He may not have gassed his own people

It has been reported that the Kurds were caught in the crossfire
between Iraq & Iran armies shelling each other.

And don't forget where he got the gas from!

[anotherdrew]

16. too bad for her the rest of the world isn't as dumb as bushes base

"Washington's original rationale for the war"

that line says it all. Since when do we tolerate sifting justifications for war?

[tabasco]

17. Did she mention that Ronald Reagan gave nerve agent precursors...

to Saddam, knowing that he would produce nerve agent? Reagan thought it would be ok to give chemical weapons to Saddam, because Saddam would use it against Iran. It never occurred to Reagan that Saddam might use those WMD against other Iraqis.

[rodeodance]

23. she probably does not even know that--her 'knowledge' is very limited.

[tinrobot]

21. Why does this remind be of Soviet Russia?

Our own government officials spouting half truths and lies as "facts."

How far we've fallen.

[newspeak]

25. I remember after Desert Storm I

First, during the Iraq and Iranian War, both sides were using gas. However, I remember a PBS documentary, I believe it was with Amy Goodman, after Desert Storm I where she interviewed some of the Iraqui People that stated after we bombed them that many bodies from the bombing were covered as soon as possible so that the US could not get a good casualty count to show how much the US had damaged their infrastructure. Does anyone remember seeing that documentary? If Saddam was in bed with the US since 1957 (with the CIA), then he's our puppet until he decided to go against our business interests. And the US will replace him with someone like him, I bet money on it. Or someone who is worse, especially for women. Tony Blair had to retrack his statement that there are mass burials of people who Saddam murdered. We do know he killed those who went against him after Poppy Bush told them that we would support them against Saddam if they would rise up.

[Loonman]

28. She's a paranoiac and possibly dangerous

Par for the Bush Team.

[EFerrari]

29. I agree. And in fact, I hope Fitz doesn't go after Cheney

because he's liable to nuke us all.

[Loonman]

31. The fact that she left for bush Team reason #1

"More time with her family", and suddenly the family is no longer important when George and Dickie are in trouble.

[EFerrari]

33. They're all whackos.

Powell was the sanest one and he was the guy who at first refused to investigate My Lai.

[kurth]

37. Super large gas chamber found in Iraq with Saddam's fingerprints intact

Deputy Secretary of State Hughes vindicated. News at 11. Yeah right.

Hey, how come Hughes is not on the list for indictment?

[BrotherBuzz]

53. Who says Karen Hughes' name isn't on the list?

;)

[Hissyspit]

55. I'm not entirely sure MIERS shouldn't be on the list for indictment. n/t

[Miss Chybil]

38. One death at the hands of a dictator is one death too many.

Too bad we've lost our moral authority to make that assertion, as our own "dictator" has killed hundreds of thousands, as well.

[The_Casual_Observer]

39. Dumb snide texas asshole.

[BlueStateBlue]

41. She's confusing it with the number killed by G.W. Bush n/t

[Zhade]

42. Does anyone really think such a number wouldn't be noticed?

The hyperbolic bullshit never ceases with these guys!

[pokercat999]

45. But here in the states the MSM won't call them on it.

The press overseas has no fear of the American Taliban Bush.

[Zhade]

51. I'd give my left arm for a press like theirs.

Seriously.

[depakid]

54. Culture of lies

That's what's taken hold in the so called "mainstream media." (You can thank Ronald Reagan and a guy named Mark Fowler- a former FCC chairman, for that).

Fit togther perfectly with the culture of corruption that's infected American government.

[pinniped]

43. There seems to be nothing about how many Iraqis her POS boss mowed down...

in the last few years.

I think the people would like to know the answer to that.

How the F are they any different?

[ConcernedCanuk]

44. 300,000 Iraqis are said to have been killed during Saddam's decades-long r

.
.
.

"300,000 Iraqis are said to have been killed during Saddam's decades-long rule"

Gee - what a slouch

How many people have been killed by the US military and their cohorts in the last 3 to 4 decades

The USA keeps changing it's "leaders" every 4 - 8 years

- how many has the US killed/slaughtered since (and including) the Kennedy Administration?

yup yup

Saddam was a slowpoke fur sure . . . just killing peeps in a country or two here and there . .

The US can boast millions of people killed by their forces in over a hundred countries in the same time frame - 'specially the two Bushes - -

but that's OK, right?

They're spreading "democracy" and "freedom"

ya right - -

(sigh)

[Maestro]

46. Even it it were true,

that wasn't the originally reason that they went to war in Iraq. What a tool!

[wordout]

48. bullshit.

it was 6 million.

[Massacure]

49. The U.S. should have imposed a beans embargo.

That would have stopped Saddam from gassing his own people.

:rofl:

[dkofos]

57. Misspoke??

No, I think she is just stupid.

[Olney Blue]

69. She has the intellectual curiosity of a chimp.

Oh wait. Chimps have more curiosity than Hughes and the chimperator.

[happydreams]

60. US Envoy Challenged

In the Seattle Times, Oct 22,2005. Karen Hughes is going around the world trying to "burnish" Bush boys "tarnished" image and saying fuck the facts int he process. "Saddam killed 300,000 people!!"...." The international consensus is that Saddam is a dangerous threat". Excuse me but it took Saddam 24 years to kill that many if indeed that number is accurate, which hasn't been proven. We've killed half that many in less than three years, at that rate we'll kill over 1.2 mil in 24 years. And on top of it we've made Iraq a hellhole of internecine strife with no end in sight. Things are simply going to get worse.
If there was a consensus that Saddam Hussein was a dangerous threat then why did the UN vote against the US invasion? You know why Karen, because the weapons inspectors were doing a sufficient job; this has been PROVEN by the fact that no WMD's were found. When will you admit that the Repuke's contempt for the UN is because they tend to throw a wrench in your plans for perpetual war for perpetual profits. THAT is the real reason why the UN is hated by you Repuke fascists. You want war. You love war.

What the fuck difference does the truth make? Why do these pukes get to go around saying such shit and are never held accountable. Hughes is only making our foreign affairs situation worse by running her ignorant self-serving bullshit!

Beyond the obvious idiocy there is a deeper pathology to the Bush propoganda. Just today Bush was praising Reagan, the "Great Communicator". But Reagan refused to sanction Hussein in 1987--88 when news of the gassing of the Kurds took place. That is because Dr. Henry Kissassinger and Poppy Bush, not wanting to sour their business relations with Hussein, asked Reagan to avoid sanctions.





Indonesian students challenge U.S. envoy

The Bush administration's envoy, Karen Hughes, visited Indonesia
yesterday as part of her campaign to repair U.S. standing with the world's...

Full story:
http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=hughes22&date=20051022

[VegasWolf]

61. You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can fool

Conservatives all of the time.

[happydreams]

65. LOL! I forgot that fact

:crazy:

[Peace Patriot]

62. Great rant, happydreams! And welcome to DU! Recommended!

These sick, lying, traitorous, murderous people are not going to be curtailed until we have restored our right to vote.

In truth, that's why they took our right to vote away--with Diebold's and ES&S's SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code, in the new electronic voting systems (owned and controlled by Bushite corporations). They know how powerful our vote is, and how truth wins out, with transparent elections in a real democracy.

Can't have that.

Throw Diebold and ES&S election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' NOW!

[formercia]

63. Ditto

my kind of rant.

[Cha]

66. "Misspoke"? karen hughes effing

LIES like all the WHIGs and PNACers.

What a Em-Bar-ASS-Ment to the USA!