Poll shows Iraqis back attacks on UK, US forces

[Fozzledick]

LONDON (Reuters) - Forty-five percent of Iraqis believe attacks on U.S. and British troops are justified, according to a secret poll said to have been commissioned by British defense leaders and cited by The Sunday Telegraph.

Less than 1 percent of those polled believed that the forces were responsible for any improvement in security, according to poll figures.

Eighty-two percent of those polled said they were "strongly opposed" to the presence of the troops.

The paper said the poll, conducted in August by an Iraqi university research team, was commissioned by the Ministry of Defense.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051022/ts_nm/iraq_britain_dc;_ylt=Ale1fgzH1jEugv.BgapgJ44DW7oF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

[malaise]

1. This is obvious to all who have a clue n/t

[madaboutharry]

2. Karma is a bitch.

This is just like Vietnam. When will we ever learn? You can not bonb and kill and think that people are going to want to be your friends. What is wrong with us? I will never understand how so many believed the lies.

[Bigmack]

20. "The beatings will continue...

... until morale improves."

[tuvor]

3. Wanna bet this won't show up on US airwaves anytime soon?

[IChing]

4. Did Karl Levin read this yet?

Karl seems to have done his own gallup poll in Iraq.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1870485

[leftchick]

6. he must be profiting somehow

why else the complete lack of acknowledging the truth?

[Tom Joad]

10. Karl Levin, Senator, for military occupation, is disconnected from reality

"The Michigan senator, who is the ranking Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee and a frequent visitor to Iraq, said that one of the few points on which the main Iraqi ethnic and sectarian political groups agree was that all want U.S. forces to remain in the country. The Bush administration should use that consensus to forge political compromise, Levin argued."

So Levin speaks to those Iraqis the US military escorts to the Green Zone to chat with him, and he sees a consensus. I somehow doubt he wondered the streets striking up conversations.

Levin, like other Bush co-conspirators, must be given stern warning:
Oppose this war or we will work for your defeat.

[brentspeak]

18. Who's "we"?

Speak for yourself.

[Tom Joad]

21. OK, we anti-war people. I sit corrected, sorry. nt

[leesa]

23. But...Israel might get mad at him.

[LynnTheDem]

5. IGNORE what the IRAQIS want! We must stay to prevent the civil war

that may or may not happen if we left because ONLY WE can prevent a civil war that may or may not happen if we leave even though we can't even protect the most fortified area in the ME...the Green Zone.

STAY THE COURSE!

:sarcasm:

[Fozzledick]

7. Link to full Telegraph article

Millions of Iraqis believe that suicide attacks against British troops are justified, a secret military poll commissioned by senior officers has revealed.

The poll, undertaken for the Ministry of Defence and seen by The Sunday Telegraph, shows that up to 65 per cent of Iraqi citizens support attacks and fewer than one per cent think Allied military involvement is helping to improve security in their country.

It demonstrates for the first time the true strength of anti-Western feeling in Iraq after more than two and a half years of bloody occupation.

The nationwide survey also suggests that the coalition has lost the battle to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people, which Tony Blair and George W Bush believed was fundamental to creating a safe and secure country.

http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/23/wirq23.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/10/23/ixportaltop.html

[bemildred]

8. And that's just the ones we could find in the Green Zone ... nt

[VegasWolf]

9. This should not be a surprise to anybody, Bush is not there to protect

the Iraqis, his only concern is for the black gold in the ground.

[Tom Joad]

11. Bush has united all ethinic groups in Iraq... they all want the US out.

[Orangepeel]

12. may well be true, but the idea of finding this out with a poll is silly

Just as silly as a hypothetical poll showing that Iraqis want the US to stay would be.

There is no reliability at all to the responses. If what was happening in Iraq was happening here, and somebody asked me a question like this, my answer (if I answered at all) would depend entirely on who I thought was asking me.

[Journeyman]

14. The article claims the poll was conducted by Iraqis. . .

who were not told the results would be used by Coalition forces.

"The survey was conducted by an Iraqi university research team that, for security reasons, was not told the data it compiled would be used by coalition forces."

[tocqueville]

15. Iraquis asked them, read the article

"The survey was conducted by an Iraqi university research team that, for security reasons, was not told the data it compiled would be used by coalition forces."

You don't believe in the poll, but obviously the UK MoD does and wanted to have it kept secret...

[Orangepeel]

19. Of course Iraqis asked them

If Americans had asked them, the overwhelming response would have been pro-American.

I think that, probably, the vast majority Iraqis do want foreign forces out of their country. I would, if I was in that position. But the poll results are meaningless. They would be meaningless no matter what they said. In general, respondents tend to give the answers they think that pollsters want (it's called "social desirability bias"). And in a war zone, where one could conceivably be killed if one answers "incorrectly"? Normal, want-to-live people are going to say what they think they are supposed to say.

[tocqueville]

26. according to you ALL polls are by definition biased

If the poll is conducted with the normal secrecy there isn't any risk for the answers to be biased. The question in itself can be a source of bias but that's another story.

So why believe any of GWs ratings at all ?

[Orangepeel]

27. there is a whole science of polling

(although it is arguably more of an art) that attempts to find ways to reduce bias. The way the questions are worded, the demeanor of the interviewer, etc., are issues that have been extensively studied. In most situations, within some margin of error, professionally conducted polls are accurate.

But, I don't believe this is a normal situation. This is a brutal war -- about to become a brutal civil war -- and, I believe, a normal Iraqi, trying to mind his/her own business is a horrible situation, is going to be afraid of 1) being arrested by US forces as an "insurgent" if he/she answers one way or 2) being, and having their family killed by the same people who blow up car bombs in civilian areas if he/she answers another way.

But, that's just my opinion. Maybe Iraqis are itching to tell perfect strangers their political views, as long as the stranger looks Iraqi and promises to keep the answer secret.

[tocqueville]

13. other results of the same poll very revealing

• 67 per cent of Iraqis feel less secure because of the occupation;

• 43 per cent of Iraqis believe conditions for peace and stability have worsened;

• 72 per cent do not have confidence in the multi-national forces.

• 71 per cent of people rarely get safe clean water, 47 per cent never have enough electricity, 70 per cent say their sewerage system rarely works and 40 per cent of southern Iraqis are unemployed.

[Cults4Bush]

16. Can they come home now? Pretty Please?

I can't believe most politicos just want to send more troops in.
It wont work.
Nothing but reparations and getting the fuck out will work... and maybe war crime tribunals at the hague for bushco will help.

[niallmac]

17. Poll shows Colonists back attacks against Redcoats.n/t

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

22. Good reason to pull our troops out.

It would appear the insurgency is because we're there. There may or may not be civil war after we leave (perhaps a split like Yugoslavia went through) but our presence is grist for the radical Arab propaganda machine.

[Aimah]

24. The Iraqis I know tell me...

That they are glad that Sadaam is gone. He was an evil tyrant but they feel that the US was a co-conspirator to his regime. One Iraqi man likened it to the Teacher (Bush/US Government) disciplining the Student (Sadaam). They don't want a Sadaam dictatorship and they don't want US occupation. I have no idea why anyone in the Bush cabinet thought that they would be greeted with roses and kisses by the masses.

[buddysmellgood]

25. Stay the course. Don't falter or fail, Haliburton isn't done pumping oil

[Darranar]

28. I'm shocked. Who could have guessed?

All we did was bomb and invade them, starve a million of them to death while bombing them on occassion, then bomb and invade them again, this time destabilizing the country and beginning a vicious and brutal occupation that has killed countless thousands of people....

Is there any people on the planet who would not object to their country being occupied and their fellow citizens being slaughtered by foreign invaders?

[OKNancy]

29. Kick

:kick:

[callady]

30. Huge Majority of Iraqis Want Coalition To Go (82%)

Huge majority of Iraqis want coalition to go

Ned Temko, chief political correspondent
Sunday October 23, 2005
The Observer


The government has been dealt an embarrassing double blow in its battle to convince the public it is beating insurgency in Iraq and the threat of terrorism at home, according to confidential reports leaked to today's newspapers.

One claimed nearly half of all Iraqis sympathised with violent attacks against British and US coalition troops; another said that at home, Tony Blair's high-profile strategy to counter the terrorist threat was proving disjointed and ineffective.

<snip>

The figures on Iraqis' views about attacks on coalition troops came from a nationwide opinion survey, commissioned by the Ministry of Defence and leaked to the Sunday Telegraph

According to the report, fewer than one in 100 respondents felt the presence of American, British and other allied troops was improving security in the country.

Forty-five per cent countrywide were said to believe that the attacks on the troops were justified - a figure that rose to 65 per cent in the Maysan, one of the provinces policed by the British. No fewer than 82 per cent, according to the report, declared themselves 'strongly opposed' to the presence of coalition troops.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12956,1598908,00.html

[cantstandbush]

31. This should be next question on any ballot and if the majority want the US

out, we should pull out. What good is having "freedom and democracy" if it means nothing?

[yurbud]

32. FAXED to ALL SENATORS (list of fax numbers too)

I tried to keep this on one page so I could fax all of them in a reasonable amount of time. If you have unlimited long distance, a fax will get there sooner than snail mail and will be taken a tad more serious than email.

October 23, 2005

US Senate
Washington, DC

Senators,

A poll of Iraqis commissioned by the British Ministry of Defense found this:

• 82% of Iraqis are "strongly opposed" to the presence of coalition troops;
  
  
• less than one per cent of the population believes coalition forces are responsible for any improvement in security;
  
  
• 67% of Iraqis feel less secure because of the occupation
  ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/23/wirq23.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/10/23/ixportaltop.html">from the Telegraph in the UK)
  

The other disturbing thing in this story was that Iraqi leaders practically begged us to stay, which makes me wonder how legitimate their elections were when they can ignore the overwhelming will of their own people.

The implications are even worse for our democracy. You are lying to us about why we are there, how the war is going, and now you are ignoring the majority of the American people who oppose the war.

When will you do your job, be honest with us and start working for the welfare of the American people instead of the oil companies and the cronies of the president?

The American people believe in democracy, and if you don’t start practicing it, we’ll replace you with representatives who do.

GOP:

202-224-3149, 202-224-3416, 202-228-1373, 202-224-2499, 202-224-6519, 202-228-1382, 202-224-5301, 202-224-2354, 202-224-2207, 202-228-2862, 202-228-2577, 202-228-0380, 202-224-6008, 202-224-2693, 202-224-1946, 202-228-3997, 202-228-0604, 202-228-1229, 202-228-2853, 202-228-5143, 202-224-3808, 202-224-1152, 202-228-1264, 202-228-3398, 202-228-2856, 202-224-0776, 202-224-9450, 202-224-2262, 202-224-8149, 202-228-1518, 202-224-8594, 202-224-5213, 202-224-2237, 202-228-2193, 202-228-1168, 202-224-6331, 202-224-4952, 202-228-4131, 202-224-5432, 202-224-6295, 202-224-0103, 202-228-2090, 202-228-1067, 202-228-1375, 202-228-0360, 202-228-2981, 202-224-1100, 202-224-6020, 202-228-1265, 202-224-3514, 202-224-6471, 202-224-9750, 202-228-3261, 202-228-5429, 202-228-0359, 202-224-1724

Dems

202-228-1371, 202-228-0908, 415-956-6701, 202-228-3954, 202-224-1933, 202-224-1083, 202-224-9750, 202-224-0139, 202-228-2190, 202-228-2183, 202-224-2126, 202-224-6747, 202-228-0440, 202-228-5417, 202-228-1377, 202-224-9369, 202-224-9735, 202-224-8858, 202-224-1651, 202-224-2417, 202-224-8525, 202-224-1388, 202-228-0325, 202-228-2186, 202-224-4700, 202-228-0012, 202-224-7327, 202-228-2197, 202-228-4054, 202-224-2852, 202-228-3027, 202-228-0282, 202-224-7776, 202-224-1193, 202-228-2717, 202-224-4680, 202-228-5765, 202-228-0776, 202-224-3479, 202-228-0514, 202-224-0238, 202-228-0002, 202-224-7665

[killbotfactory]

33. Last throws...

For fucks sake, that's a bigger percentage than the percentage of american colonists who supported the revolution...