US Judge Sets December Date to Execute Nobel Peace Prize Nominee

[MarsThe Cat]

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1025-06.htm

Published on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 by Agence France Presse
US Judge Sets December Date to Execute Nobel Peace Prize Nominee

A US judge signed a death warrant for a former street gangster and convicted killer who went on to be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts in tackling youth violence. Los Angeles Superior Court Judge William Pounders set a December 13 date for the execution of Stanley "Tookie" Williams, noting that his appeal against his death sentence had been rejected by the US Supreme Court on October 11...

...Williams, who co-founded Los Angeles' deadly Crips gang, was convicted in 1981 for the murders of four people and has been incarcerated in a small cell on the death row of San Francisco's San Quentin prison since then.

But since receiving his death sentence, Williams, 51, has renounced his gang past, penned children's books, been the subject of a television movie starring Jamie Foxx and been nominated for the world's top peace prize.

"The Stanley Williams case is about a man who has done what I think is the most important thing a man can do in this country, and that is reach out to the youth of this country with books, with tapes ...," Williams lawyer, Peter Fleming, said outside the courtroom....

haven't people figured it out by now...?
black men can't be 'rehabilitated' :sarcasm:

this is some kinda country we live in, huh?

[patdem]

1. Or white women...see Carla Faye Tucker n/t

[MarsThe Cat]

11. you'd think that as a "Christian" nation -

might be more cognoscente of "NEW" Testament scripture... and you'd think that the U.S. especially might want to give special attention to paul's letter to the Romans for instance...i'm kinda partial to parts of chapter 12, myself:

Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;

Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;

Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;

Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.

Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.

Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.

Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

All that "eye for an eye" & "live by the sword, die by the sword" stuff seems so...Old Testament.

but then, what do i know...i'm a 'born-again' athiest(i.e.- i was born/raised as a christian...but i have seen the truth, and it has set me free)

[Realityhack]

30. You need to pick up a 'properly edited' bible...

with neo-con comentary and explanations on the hard to understand parts.

You see killing him is overcomming evil with good... because its good we are killing him... see?

No?

UG... you must be one of those logical 'liberal elietests'... die heritic

[Igel]

2. We tend to not care when people, post-conviction and

sentencing to death row, show signs of rehabilitation. I suspect if we did, there'd be far, far more signs of rehabilitation, but that's just me being cynical.

Very, very few death-row inmates have been released because they behaved well, or even in exemplary fashion.

Schwarzenegger could pardon him. California courts sentenced him.

[MarsThe Cat]

3. nobody is necessarily saying he should just be released-

but for instance, even life without parole- who's it gonna hurt?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

8. The people with the personality disorder described in post #5. (nt)

[goclark]

10. I agree Mars

[Igel]

12. That he could be, but it would have to come from

the gov. At least I think that's a possibility.

Once the jury's returned the verdict and sentencing's done, I'm not sure there's provision for the defendant to petition for much in the way of sentence reduction unless there's new evidence concerning the crime.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HereSince1628]

6. Or then again, maybe not.

[MarsThe Cat]

13. even better than that...

how about no death penalty for anyone?

however, i wouldn't be against giving the condemned the option of taking an early exit.

[distantearlywarning]

5. The truth is...

most people don't want criminals to be rehabilitated, or to turn their lives around, or to become good people, as much as they give lip service to that goal. In fact, I suspect that for some people, this kind of prisoner even makes them angry.

This is because what they really want in their heart of hearts is for people to pay for what they did. Punishment. Vengeance. And this is reflected in our judicial system, and the way in which our prison systems are designed. Rehabilitated prisoners who are let free are not being punished, even though they might no longer be a threat to society, and this is discomfiting psychologically.

And as much as we all argue about capital punishment in this country, you will rarely hear people on either side of the fence discussing the psychological value of punishment and our attendant judicial inconsistencies relating to this, because we are all in total denial about the fact that we really want to see bad people punished, not rehabilitated.

After all, if all you had to do was repent of your sins and be forgiven, well, what kind of stupid society would that be? Oh, wait... ;-)

[imouttahere]

15. Great post!

the last sentence was a perfect summation, too!

[Realityhack]

32. excelent post.

I would add that its very convinent to have a bad person rather than a person with mixed good and bad because you don't have to look at societal cercumstances etc. The bad guy did it... he's bad... kill em.

Wonder how many supporters of minimum sentances etc. would be at some point have been behind bars if all they had ever done in their lives was exposed. ;-)

[Benhurst]

7. It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas ...

BushAmerican style.

[goclark]

9. It is a shame

The gang problem in Los Angeles goes through very muddy waters.

Tookie Williams should not, IMO, be killed for trying to stop the problems because he has seen the light.

When they sentence him to death, it will not STOP the gang problem, it will send a message to the GANGS that if you try to lead a better life it does not matter.

He is their ray of hope and now they will have no hope.

This is only my opinion.

Trust me, I have known about the Bloods and the Crips horrors all of my adult life.

Tookie getting Death is not the answer.


Now GWB was a known Druggie, AWOL and an idiot and yet he can rise to be President of the United States!

What message does that send to the youth of Amerika?

[LeighAnn]

17. You forgot Mass Murderer

>>>Now GWB was a known Druggie, AWOL and an idiot and yet he can rise to be President of the United States!<<<

How many thousands have died violent deaths at his hand? He's a mass murderer, no doubt about it. That horrible speech he gave today made me cringe all over. Everything he was saying about Al Qeada could just as easily been said about his administration. And the military wives weren't buying it. There was tepid applause that you could tell was being coached along by somebody on the sidelines.

Thumbs down all around.

[goclark]

26. I didn't hear the speech today !

Right!
he is a mass murderer,the world knows it and he walks around free and Bragging!

Please tell me they didn't like his boring speech today!



Free Tookie!

[LeighAnn]

44. They seemed to be unimpressed

After the speech they seemed to be making a beeline for the door, not all star-struck and clamoring for * like usually happens with a freeper audience. It was a horribly long speech, the applause seemed exceptionally half-hearted. It was like, if he waited long enough after making a "point", some would start clapping, but you got the feeling they were clapping in hopes that it was over. The gist of the speech was, "Syria is harboring terrorists and supporting terrorists and they need to be stopped". I'm not sure he didn't throw in something about them seeking weapons of mass destruction.

[sundancekid]

31. well said ... some people talk the talk, but they don't walk the walk

[goforit]

14. Wow!!!....A redeemed man is persecuted by In- justice!

What the hell is wrong with humanity.

[gratuitous]

16. SOP in California

There was the case of Robert Alton Harris back in the 1980s. One night in the late 1970s, he and a buddy had carjacked a couple of teenage kids. When the incident was over, both kids were dead and Harris and his pal used the car to rob a bank. Harris' pal got to the DA first, and offered his testimony that it was Harris who had killed the kids. The pal got a stiff but definite sentence; Harris got the death penalty.

With nothing to do but think about his miserable situation, Harris began checking into why he might be where he was. He'd always had trouble with alcohol (in fact, was pretty drunk the night of his particular crime), but he had a hair-trigger temper also. Things that most other folks could shrug off or deal with calmly just set Harris off. He'd see red over the slightest provocation.

He delved into his medical history, and found that his mother had been a problem drinker most of her life. Harris was born three months premature and lived a rather unhappy and violent life leading up to the events that landed him on death row. He read the available literature, studied up on his own situation, and concluded that he was most likely affected by fetal alcohol syndrome, a set of symptoms begun in utero in cases where the mother was a heavy drinker.

This explained to Harris his temper, his trouble with alcohol, and other things that happened to him. He became a counselor in the California prison system, teaching cons the root and source of some of their behavior problems, and how to avoid getting in trouble in the future. Everyone agreed that he was a model prisoner and that his work was valuable in helping a lot of cons straighten out their own lives.

Harris didn't want to be released; he understood the penalty for his crime. He just wanted to keep doing what he was doing in partial repayment of his debt to society. He was executed on April 21, 1992, the first person who died under California's reinstituted death penalty.

[Peace Patriot]

18. The death penalty reflects the despairing, rightwing philosophy that...

...people cannot change, and that human beings cannot be saved, and cannot save themselves. They are fatalistically condemned to repeat crimes, and there can be no recompense or restitution, no way out of the horror of a violent and miserable life.

In Medieval times, people were assigned to certain positions in society at birth, and could not change them. Serfs, peasants, slaves, servants were thought to be less intelligent, less noble and less human than those who lorded it over them--kings, barons, clerics, knights, ladies. Eventually a middle class arose--but they were called the "trade class"--the skilled workers, the business people, the bourgeois. They were not as high as the highest, nor as low as the lowest, but they, too, were stuck. They could not become nobility.

What occurred during the era of the Enlightenment was that philosophers, scientists, some religious thinkers, and ordinary people began to realize that nobility, genius, talent, bravery and other such qualities crossed class lines. Perhaps the narrative of humankind--the remembered stories--began to get more currency (due to book publishing). In any case, the kings and nobility began to look absurd--as a class apart that you are born to and cannot earn a position in (--plenty of idiots among the kings and nobility!).

This resulted, eventually, in that most astonishing declaration of the New World colonies: that all men are created equal.

But the fascists among us never quite agreed with that, and still hold the medieval view, to this day, that some are cursed and some are blest, some deserve riches, most do not, and it is the natural order of things that some lord it over others.

Capital punishment--and especially the manner in which it is adjudicated, with the poor and desperate getting that punishment, while the rich (who, like Bush, for instance, may be mass murderers and war criminals) escape it--fits into their personal world view, a dark and superstitious view, that is anything but Christian, and is a heavy drag on the inevitable forward thrust of human progress.

My personal view is along Buddhist lines, that if you execute a murderer--especially if you do it coldly and deliberately--the evil that that person may have been harboring will come back into the world greatly magnified. By slaying another human being, you literally perpetuate the evil with more evil. Consequently, we must provide each soul with every chance possible to redeem himself, to get rid of the evil, to overcome it, to change course.

The rightwing also likes to play God. They have been guilty of that blasphemy throughout their history--and the current rightwing, with its visceral delight in the death penalty--falls right into line with the Inquisitors and witch-hunters of the Middle Ages who identified 'witches' by marks on their skin, or some other voodoo, then plunged their heads into water, and if they drowned, then they were not the tools of the Devil, and if they didn't, they were.

Inflicting capital punishment is playing God. It presumes that you KNOW who is guilty, without question, without doubt. And if you are wrong, so what? A few poor innocent peons unjustly sent to their deaths is no big problem for you. The point is, you are God, and you can damn well do as you wish.

I disagree with some of the posters here, though, that most people truly approve of state execution. I think the people who do have been brainwashed, and, with some of them, their anger at life under corporate rule--their feeling of powerlessness--gets projected onto the executioner, whom they look to to exercise power and rid them of social ills; and, with others, their most primitive feelings have been tapped and encouraged: revenge, bloodthirstiness, hatred, racism.

With good leadership--leadership that was not in thrall to fascist "think tanks" and corporate news monopolies, and that was not corrupted by them--ordinary people could be inspired to reject the death penalty, for its unfairness and for its darkness, and to seek a better society.

Most people are aware that, if you have a lot of money, you don't get executed. It is a short step from that to realizing how bad the death penalty is. I was encouraged by a statistic I recently read, that the great majority of Americans oppose the torture of prisoners "under any circumstances." 63% opposed, May '03. So, the great majority of Americans have not bought all the fearmongering. They are sticking to their sense of ethics and fairness and lawfulness, despite intense propaganda. Most civilized countries have abandoned the death penalty, and I think we will, too--given half a chance (honest, transparent elections; good leaders).

The execution of this changed man--Stanley Williams--is an abomination. And it would be an abomination even if he were not changed--because of the hope that he might. All our efforts should be put into changing people, not cutting off their opportunity to think about what they have done (if they are guilty) and to change themselves and make recompense.

And then there are the innocent, unjustly tried, unjustly convicted. What of them?

How dare we play God in this way?

[Tight_rope]

19. I'm sure Bush won't pardon Nobel Peace Prize Nominee!

It would be too much like right... God forbid. The Chimperor is a "TRUE" christian.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

28. Too bad there's no Nobel War-mongering Prize

Dumbyass would win in a heartbeat.

[quaoar]

20. I support the death penalty

But there is something terribly wrong with a system in which someone is kept on Death Row for 24 years. It is cruel not only to the condemned, but to the family of the victims, to drag things out for years on end. If it cannot be streamlined down to a few years it should be abandoned.

Part of the reason that these cases take so long is that defendants are often provided with court-appointed lawyers who have little or no experience with capital cases, so numerous mistakes or omissions are made. These mistakes are fodder for appeal or for new trials.

States are loathe to spend the money it would take to hire competent lawyers for murder defendants, but if they did it would save money in the long run. There would be fewer death sentences because those defendants who don't really merit a death sentence would end up with life sentences instead, thus eliminating the need for years of appeals. Also, competent lawyers would ensure that more trials were fair, thus providing less grounds for appeal. DNA testing should also be mandatory in cases where it is applicable. What does it do to the victim's family to go for years thinking the killer has been punished only to discover subsequent DNA tests exonerate him?

But competent lawyers cost more.

And then there are cases like this one -- where someone spends years on Death Row but turns his life around. I know a man like that. His name is Wilbert Rideau and he has been imprisoned in Angola, La., for more than 40 years. I interviewed him several times for articles I wrote for the Dallas Morning News and the paper in Baton Rouge. He has accomplished a great deal while in prison and deserves a pardon, but he won't get one because his victim's family is politically connected in Calcasieu Parish (Lake Charles). Rideau had actually been taken to a TV station by the sheriff and made to confess on TV. He had been sentenced to death but it was later commuted.

Likewise I see no benefit to society in executing Williams. His sentence should be commuted.

[Solon]

21. The problem is that any attempt to streamline the system...

will only increase the chances of innocent people being executed. In a situation like that, we should just abandon the whole practice of the death penalty entirely. It is an irrevocable punishment, where there is no way to recompense someone who was executed wrongly.

[quaoar]

22. By streamlining

I do not mean to suggest an arbitrary cutoff of the appeals process. Providing competent defense attorneys at trial would do more to prevent innocent people from being convicted than anything else. As it is now defendants often get a lawyer who needs the work and is willing to accept the pathetically low amount the state provides.

States also provide next to nothing for investigators, expert witnesses, etc. for the defense.

The condemned inmate often doesn't see a lawyer who knows what he/she is doing until well into the appeals procress when some capital defense project takes up his case.

I once wrote an article about a case in which the defendant's lawyer fell asleep during the trial. And he was sentenced to death. Stuff like that happen more than you think. Cases like that have to be overturned but all they do is drag out the agony for the families of victims.

[Solon]

25. I understand what you are saying, but it will never happen...

First, except for a few, most Public Defenders are basically those who WANT to move one to bigger better things, or can't find anything better. So that means that the state or city in question would have to increase the PD office's budget, something they will never be able to justify to the taxpayer, so that is simply out of the question. Second, even if such changes were implemented, it probably wouldn't shorten the appeals process in any significant way. Remember in most states, except for maybe Texas, all capital offense cases are automatically sent to appeals courts, and taken from there.

To be honest, I couldn't support the death penalty as it is practiced, worldwide, in any nation it is legal in. There are simply too many questions that are raised, it is more expensive, and innocent people HAVE been put to death in this country and others. I don't see any justification for that.

[quaoar]

42. Well

it is true that most states are not going to spend the money needed to provide competent defense because spending money on criminals is about as popular as Phil Fulmer in Tuscaloosa.

The public defenders offices I have dealt with are actually more competent than a lot of private attorneys when it comes to criminal defense -- even capital cases -- because they handle so much of it. Sort of like how the local charity hospital is the place to go for a gunshot wound because they treat so many.

Most rural counties, at least in the South, don't have public defenders office. The task of defending a capital case is assigned to a local lawyer who has added his name to a list of lawyers willing to take court appointments.

States do have automatic appeals, but that's just to the state Supreme Court. That usually takes a year or less. What drags it all out is then heading to the federal courts, taking one issue up to the circuit court and Supreme Court, then going back to the federal district court with a separate issue and then appealing that, etc.

It is my opinion that one of the chief reasons that the number of people on Death Row is so high is because of less than competent defense at trial. A good lawyer has a better chance at making sure the innocent aren't convicted, has a better chance during jury selection (most capital cases are won or lost during jury selection). If his client is convicted, a lawyer with capital experience can often persuade a jury to impose life rather than death. And if his client is sentenced to die a good lawyer will have perserved numerous issues to be raised on appeal. Incompetent lawyers fail to perserve issues during trial and they end up being barred on appeal.

[MarsThe Cat]

33. "...drag out the agony for the families of victims."

huh?
agony?

what kind of "agony" is relieved by the death of another human being?

i'm an atheist, but it sickens me when people HYPOCRITES who claim that this is a "christian country", and claim to be "christians" themselves- fervently support the death penalty (btw- that isn't directed at you...but the question is).

I'm from illinois, where at least 12 innocent people were found to be on death row- and most had already been thru the appeals process- the governor ordered a moratorium and investigation into cases after some journalism students proved a man innocent.

te death penalty is just plain WRONG in a civilized society.

[Realityhack]

35. Right on... I would add that DNA testing

is FAR FAR from the mythical infalible god most peole take it as.
The rep. idiot gov. in my state (that Romney fuck) thinks DNA would prevent inocent people from going to death row... sorry to burst anyones bubble but while it might reduce the odds a little it would be far from infallible.
Life without parroll saves money anyway. We need to get over our perverse desire to see someone tortured to make us feel better about what happend to us.

[quaoar]

40. The agony

comes from thinking that the person who killed your loved one has been caught and punished only to discover that DNA evidence shows it wasn't him. So closure becomes an open wound once again. Or having to keep up with years or even decades of appeals of the person who murdered your family member.

It has nothing to do with the penalty imposed.

[MarsThe Cat]

43. the thing is- people have got to get on with THEIR OWN lives.

grudge-bearing and blood-thirst are very bad for the soul.

i notice that you didn't consider the "agony" of the innocent person who: "... has been caught and punished only to discover that DNA evidence shows it wasn't him." (aawwww...shucks)

i would think that the REAL agony in that situation is felt by the unjustly punished, NOT the with the vengeance-driven "victim" who has to 'open old wounds'(well, they don't "have to", but many choose to- to their own and ultimately our society's detriment)

[Ms. Toad]

49. No mention either of the innocent families of those on death row

who must prepare over and over for the brutal murder of their loved one at the hands of the state each time a new execution date comes close.

My brother came within 36 hours of execution on the state's last attempt to electrocute him. My mother hoped aloud that the state would give her son some sort of sedative so he would not have to be so acutely aware of the 500 to 2000 volts of electricity repeatedly sent through his body (each individual 30 second pulse deliberately less than certain to be lethal so as to minimize nasty possibility that the victim might catch on fire). None of us had the nerve to disillusion her by telling her that the state required her child to be alert and aware of the punishment being imposed.

Creating a second family whose child/sibling/parent was cruelly, methodically, and deliberately killed does nothing to ease the agony the first victim's family feels.

[newspeak]

45. we show killing is wrong by killing

and you know, there is a disparity in killing. If I kill in war, I am exempt--I can murder thousands, but it comes down to who is murdered and who is the murderer. The anthrax killer, murder five, but he's just an American trying to prove how defenseless the country is (or whatever the latest excuse), murder 100,000 Iraqis, it's okay they're not like "us" and anyway it's a war, murder 2,000 soldiers based on a lie, well it's okay, it's our government. But, someone in poverty or lives in an "inner city" jungle, it's okay. Let's get rid of them what do they contribute to society? Some white collar criminals who steal millions from the elderly and the poor and because of their crime, those victim die; it's okay they're creative how they bilked those poor fools. I am and will always be against the death penalty-you want to lock them up and throw away the key, fine-but to take a life, is asking someone else to commit murder.

[jody]

23. Only obscenely wealthy people can be rehabilitated or given probation. n/t

[bigworld]

24. Nobel Prize

I hate it when journalists say that so-and-so is a Nobel prize nominee. Basically, any member of Norway's parliament can officially nominate someone for any Nobel prize. There have been many crackpot nominees over the years, including Bush.

Just my two cents.

[rppper]

27. ...and the crackpots generally don't receive the award either....

IE-Bush......

24 years...a quarter century waiting to die...thats cruel and unusual in my book...

one must look at what mr. williams has done with his life during this time..apparently he has made a turn-around of sorts. i am a full believer in life imprisonment for murderers, rapists, molesters, etc, etc....williams is both a convicted and admitted murderer, therefore i believe his sentence should be commuted to a life sentence. this equates to both my opposition to the death penalty and to the violent nature of williams crime. this also takes into account the work he is doing with other inmates. somewhere in the mix of crime, punishment and prison the word rehabilitation got lost in budget cuts and ideology. if the states continue to ignore facts and figures and cut rehab programs in prisons, and people like williams can step in and make a difference for no charge(other than his life...)then let the man continue his work and allow him to get straight with the house. there is always going to be a delicate balancing act when it comes to justice. williams knew he had nothing to lose by just staying in his cell and waiting to die, but he chose to put his energies into making sure other, younger inmates did not repeat his mistakes, and did so knowing his time could come at any second for over 20 years......thats just my two cents....

[MarsThe Cat]

34. but if you look at the guy's backstory...

it doesn't appear to be a "crackpot" nomination.

[goclark]

47. I hear you but... I feel he had every right to be nominated

It does send a powerful message that others, not just Tookie, should make a NOBEL effort to put an end to Gangs and Gang Wars of any sort.

If we take the true meaning of the words PEACE PRIZE, Tookie should surely have been nominated.

He is, to my knowledge, the only gang member that could gather international attention for the work that he has done to make PEACE in the urban areas.

The World needs to take a lesson from Tookie.

Bush and his crime family need to take a lesson from Tookie.

The biggest gangster on the planet right now is GWBush.

I live in Los Angeles and GWB has willingly and happily killed more people, innocent and guilty, than the Crips and the Bloods have ever killed!

PEACE

[Realityhack]

36. I can support that but...

basicaly it doesn't say anything about this case. I also doubt that a lot of people on death row in the US have been nominated.

Anyway, you should probobly make some disclamer about wither or not you think this is a case of said crakpot nomination or not.

[SlipperySlope]

37. I read this and think one of two things.

Either the story was written by someone who wanted to purposely mislead, or it was passed along by someone who didn't know any better.

Either evil or ignorance, the two great sins of our day.

[MasonJar]

29. EU does not allow the death penalty by its member states.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[northzax]

39. just remember, George Bush is a nobel nominee (nt)

[enki23]

41. not really a comment on this particular case...

but bush is a peace prize nominee as well.

[newspeak]

46. so when you go down the slippery slope of capital punishment

one day it could apply to you. Look at Pinochet, Hitler, Stalin. You become an enemy of the state and the death penalty is readily accepted, where will you be? It doesn't take much for the lynch mob lusting for blood. We are a civilized society or we are not. Be careful you do not become the evil that you fight.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

48. There's a clemency petition online...

http://www.petitiononline.com/stw4804/petition.html