Air Force coach spouts off on minorities

[NeoConsSuck]

Air Force football coach Fisher DeBerry, expressing frustration Tuesday with the Falcons' slumping performance, attributed the latest loss in part to No. 20 TCU's having more African-American players who "can run very, very well."

<snip>

Academy officials released a statement saying they were investigating.

DeBerry was forced last November to remove a banner in the team's locker room that read in part, "I am a member of Team Jesus Christ."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/mwest/2005-10-26-air-force_x.htm

[psychopomp]

1. I don't have a problem with this

I think this is a case of being a bit over-sensitive. It sounds like he wanted to get some guys on his team who can run and was pointing out that his team does not have enough African-American athletes. Athletes who, he observed, tend to run better than, well, everybody else.

[Sabriel]

2. My state needs to get more Jews

They're very good with money, and we could use them during our current budget crisis.

Yep, nothing wrong with that attitude....

(splchk)

[psychopomp]

3. Well that's funny

I like your retort but I have to disagree with you on this.

[alcibiades_mystery]

7. LOL

Yeah...it's just oversensitive.

Wait for it. You're about to learn about the proliferation of Kenyan marathon runners. It's all about biology, doncha know...:eyes:

[Karenina]

18. And how many Afro-American (sic)

swimmers have you ever seen? ;-)

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. Not to mention hockey players

Funny how these supposedly biological features are weirdly tied to economic and cultural condiions, yeah?

[Sabriel]

29. As Chris Rock said about hockey,

"Black people dominate sports in the United States. 20% of the population and 90% of the final four. We own this shit. Basketball, baseball, football, golf, tennis, and as soon as they make a heated hockey rink we'll take that shit too."

[goforit]

52. roflmao!!!.............Rock's a kick!!!

[AspenRose]

56. Black hockey

When Anson Carter was ten years old, his life was much the same as most of the other boys growing up in his Scarborough, Ontario, neighborhood. He went to school, came home, and played hockey. As he continued to play, advancing rapidly through his local leagues and on to Michigan State University, he began to stand out for two reasons. One, he was almost always the best player on the ice, and two, he was black—a rarity in hockey.

Carter was the second-leading scorer for the Boston Bruins in 1999–2000, was traded to the Edmonton Oilers in 2000, and then to the New York Rangers in 2003. He was one of 13 black athletes in the NHL in 2003. It's a number that may seem low (given the 600+ players in the NHL today) but it still represents a noticeable increase in what has always been thought of as a "white" sport.

According to league reports, only 18 black players reached the NHL between 1958 and 1991. While racism certainly played some role in keeping the figure to a minimum, it may have been more a function of the demographic makeup of Canada. In 1971, Canadians made up over 95% of the NHL, and only .02% of all Canadians were black. Today, the black population in Canada has increased to 2%. In addition, the United States, with a much higher black population than Canada, now contributes approximately 15% of all NHL players while Canada produces just over 60%.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmhockey1.html

[0007]

40. "They" use to say the same thing about golf players. n/t

[Lochloosa]

23. And mine needs more Vietnamese...they can go fishing with me

I hear they are real good fishermen....geezzz

[Ian David]

32. Take me fishing with you. My nails look like hell. n/t

[Lochloosa]

34. ...

:rofl: took me a minute

[KamaAina]

65. It'll never work. Two-thirds of my state is composed of Asians, and...

...our math scores are near the bottom.

See how well stereotyping works? :sarcasm:

[Gormy Cuss]

6. The logic that follows is

the other team has players who are better athletes than mine. These athletes are African-American. Therefore, the problem with my team is there aren't enough African-Americans.

Yep. That makes a lot of sense and has no hint of racial bias. :sarcasm:

[Tesha]

20. Perhaps you need to explain why the NFL is 70% African-American?

Based on the behavior of the NFL, a group of teams that are highly
motivated to win as many games as possible, it would appear that,
in fact, that the top end of the demographic of African-American
footbal players *ARE* better than the top end of the demographic
of white football players. The proof point of this is that the
team rosters of the NFL now contain 70% African-Americans, a
bit of an over-representation compared to the public at large
(which is about 12% A-A).

Data:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/saraceno/2003-10-02-saraceno_x.htm

http://www.thesportjournal.org/2001Journal/Vol4-No4/minority-hiring-practices.asp

While it is entirely possible that this coach *IS* a racist, it does
not follow that this particular extract of his statement (quoted
in the original posting) is racist; it simply appears to be reality-
based.

Tesha

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

21. What's telling about the remarks is that he ONLY attributes their

win to the "Afro-Americans" on the other team, with no mention of the myriad other abilities that go into executing a successful game plan.

He seems to think, "Let's get a bunch of "Afro-Americans" and we can start winning."

He also denigrated the running abilities of his "Caucasian descent" players.

I have a hard time imagining how he could effectively lead a team, especially a diverse team, after those polarizing comments.

MKJ

And, on a different note, he looks and talks like Jesse Helms, check out the video. :hi:
post #19

[Gormy Cuss]

43. No, that statement is racist on the face.

To observe that the current distribution of good players is from one racial group does not mean that by stacking your team with members of that racial group your team is assured success. What the coach needs are better athletes, regardless of race. Perhaps the problem isn't the skin color of the players but the brain power of the coach.

[ticapnews]

71. His problem is he coaches at the Air Force Academy...

Legitimate D-I college football prospects are looking forward to the day they will be playing on Sundays for seven-figure contracts and endorsement deals. Going to Colorado Springs, Annapolis and West Point pretty much destroys that goal since you have to serve in the military after your college career is over - not many NFL coaches want a 26-year-old rookie who hasn't played organized ball in four years.

Add to that the no-end-in-sight war being waged in a desert half a world away, and he's not going to get many good athletes - black or white - who are willing to attend his school.

I heard what the coach said and I don't feel it is racist. I've been involved with college athletics in the past and have followed sports for ages. Most coaches will say "We have to recruit more speed." That is code for "We need more black kids." This coach came right out and said it: He wants more black kids on his team. He thinks black kids make better ballplayers and he wants more of them to play for him. If he was racist would he want black kids on his team? He wants to win, and he feels black kids will help him. Is that better than the alternative? Should he NOT want black kids on his team? Or should he just stick to the old standby that he wants to recruit "speed" and let the reporters and the public interpret what he means for themselves?

Downthread someone asked what his players think right now. Having been in a college locker room with one of the best coaches in the country and having been a high school coach myself, you do say things to push your team's buttons. You build them up, you break them down and you build them up again. You say things in the media and in public and say something different in the locker room. My sophomore year in college, our coach told us he was going to play up our freshman class in the media because it was a great story and the press would love it, but he knew the seniors were going to be the key to our success. Earlier this season Ozzie Guillen criticized his players, said absolutely horrible things about them in the media...and last night his team swept its way to the World Series championship. His players are just fine. You don't get to be a D-I athlete without knowing that your coach is going to play head games to motivate you to perform.

I wonder if he had taken a different tack and said, "White kids can't play football. White kids are slow and not dependable athletes." Would there have been this outcry? If someone claims, "White men can't jump" is that racist as well?

[scavok]

73. DeBerry has other recruiting problems too...

He has a built in disadvantage over other service academies and colleges in that his players must fit in a jet cockpit someday.

Air Force will never have a big offensive line, or a 7' center on their basketball team. They will always be physically disadvantaged versus their opponents.

Air Force wins football games by being faster than their opposition, running a triple option offense that requires defenses to cover every possible ball carrier, and by taking smart chances on defense.

And they have been very successful until recently. When a kid has several years of service in a war zone to look forward to after college they tend to find other schools to attend.

It's still no excuse for what he said. But that probably has something to do with the Academy being just two exits away from Focus on the Family on I-25.

[Gormy Cuss]

75. We can disagree on this. I don't jump to a racism charge quickly.

I look for every other plausible reason before I presume racism, and the coach's remarks were unambiguous to me. Other coaches who use "speed" as code are only barely better than him in this regard. It's the same closed minded thinking that perpetuates sterotypes in a broad range of endeavors. If one thinks only a certain type of person can do the job, one will ignore other talented people who don't fit those preconceived notions. A coach saying "white men can't jump" should get nailed over that comment too.
Most corporate CEOs are white males. If I'm looking for a take-charge guy for my company, I guess I need a white guy. Women and people of color just don't have what it takes. That's not prejudiced, is it? I'm old enough to remember when the building trades and public service jobs like firefighting were shut off from women because of a presumption that women couldn't cut it -- they were of too small a stature and had weak musculature, not to mention their other female trouble. Otherwise reasonable people would swear they weren't biased, it was just stating reality.
If it walks like a duck,...

[K-W]

66. He jumped to a conclusion.

And the fact that the conclusion jumped to is that one races is better than another race does in fact indicate racism.

There is no more evidence that blacks are genetically better at sports than there is that blacks are genetically more likely to committ crime.

And if you cant come up with other things that might cause those numbers consider this.

In my suberban white high school, people who wanted to be rich planned on going to college and becoming lawyers, doctors or business executives. People in poor black communities who want to be rich plan on being rap stars or playing professional sports.

[xchrom]

8. oh yes -- make them hysterical.

oversensitive, my ass.

it was a fuckin racist based remark -- and the guy at the very least needs some education in how stupid comments like that are.

[Hobarticus]

37. My state needs more Irish, we need more cops and drunks

One group tends to feed off the other, so just a bit would help.

[truthisfreedom]

4. if we had more Jews and Blacks running this country

we would certainly have less bushes.

be nice, everybody. we're all in this together.

[psychopomp]

9. lol

Yes, I do not want to participate nor incite a divisive flame-fest.

[Racenut20]

5. Sounds to me like

A racist RW relegious nutcase who is frustratred after taking an Academy job for the prestige and is not getting offers to bigger programs.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

10. I don't know if you read the whole article, but he harped on and on about

his lack of "Afro-American" football players. He only credited their ethnicicity and did not credit anything else such as their execution, team work or understanding of and adjustment to their opponent's game plan.

MKJ

On edit:

A fuller text of his remarks, per the Denver Post:

Coming off a 48-10 loss Saturday to the Horned Frogs, DeBerry was quoted as saying at a Tuesday news conference: "It's very obvious to me the other day that the other team had a lot more Afro-American players than we did, and they ran a lot faster than we did. It just seems to be that way, that Afro-American kids can run very, very well. That doesn't mean that Caucasian kids and other descents can't run, but it's very obvious to me they run extremely well.

"Their defense had 11 Afro-American kids on their team, and they were a very, very good defensive football team. That's exactly what I was talking about."

DeBerry mentioned Monday that the academy needed to recruit more minority athletes than its opponents.

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_3151661

[psychopomp]

11. White people CAN'T JUMP

lol just kidding. Seriously, though, he wants a black team. I say, give him what he wants, he's the coach!

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

13. Well, I hate to think of the drills he'd demand of his black players.

Again, he would expect a much higher performance based solely on ethnicity. I can already hear the "C'mon boy, your people are natural runners, that's why the white guys got to finish two hours ago. Now, move your ass!"

And, I wonder how his "Caucasian descent" players feel about now. MKJ

On edit, how could he possibly coach a culturally or ethnically diverse team after making these statements?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

19. Here's a video of the charming gentleman's remark's. Must be a joy to

play for...not! MKJ

http://www.9news.com/includes/buildasx.aspx?fn=http://wm.gannett.speedera.net/wm.gannett/kusa/june05/1130301272280-DEBERRY%20RACE%20BITE.transfer.wmv&sp=http://wm.gannett.speedera.net/wm.gannett/kusa/pre-stream/elway9-7-05.wmv

[RT_Fanatic]

27. He may be the coach, but...

...he's also a racist asshole. He wants "Afro-Americans" on his team not because he believes they deserve the opportunity, but because having them on the team might make his sorry caucasian ass look better. Sheesh!

[onenote]

12. "Afro-American"?

Totally clueless.

onenote

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

14. Yep, parked firmly in the South 1950's.

MKJ

[AspenRose]

58. At least he didn't say "negro" or "colored."

eom

[MadisonProgressive]

62. Also he forgot the fact that black atheletes

are commonly lazy and undisciplined.

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[onenote]

15. Air Force Acad Volleyball team on 12 game losing streak:

Must be the lack of "Afro-Americans" -- how else to explain losing to Brigham Young twice in the last month. http://www.airforcesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=13941&SPID=805&DB_OEM_ID=3000&ATCLID=203530

And hey, I guess that's why the San Francisco 49ers lost 52-17 to Washington last week...

Or...maybe its a coach that can't coach or recruit?

onenote

[MadisonProgressive]

63. Nah, Washington's blacks were just faster than SF's

[ovidsen]

16. Coach DeBerry? Bill Bennett on line 2... (n/t)

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

17. ROFLMAO! n/t

MKJ

[Norquist Nemesis]

54. And Rush Limbaugh on line 3 to chat about Donovan McNabb!

:rofl:

[plasticsundance]

22. Two things here ...

This racist pig not only uses a cowardly excuse for losing by conjuring the backward and inane thinking that has kept African-Americans at a disadvantage in this country, but he is implying that African-Americans are not suited to join the Air Force.

Oh yeah ... who would have guessed it ... he's on Team Jesus Christ ... Jesus frickin' Christ.

I am really growing impatient with these bastards. They have to be called out at every chance we get.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

24. My husband and I were watching this on the news this morning and

my husband said, "I can just hear this guy saying, Please Lord, I need lots of Afro-Americans for Team Jesus right now!"

As I've said previously, how do the players on his team feel about him right about now? Or do they buy into this BS, too?

Our local news station in Denver is having a field day with this. I hope the AFA does the right thing and fires him, but the AFA is not known for their principled actions. MKJ

[rocktivity]

51. DING DING DING! Plasticsundance, you're our grand prize winner!

This racist pig...is (also) implying that African-Americans are not suited to join the Air Force.

Keep in mind that the military academy coaches can't go out and recruit just anybody--they're confined to taking those who are committed to military careers. Players who have other career goals (including professional football) are simply not going to be attracted to places like Air Force and West Point. That has nothing to do with race, and absolutely nothing to do with whether or not one has the ability to meet AF's academic standards.

:headbang:
rocknation

[AztecGringo]

26. I Don't Agree

Perhaps, his delivery was flawed, but, as a football fan (and sociologist), I understand where he was coming from. Perhaps the greatest variable in determining team success at the Division 1 level of college football (assuming coaching is adequate) is team speed. Moreover, while there are extremely fast non-Black players and slow Black players, it is naive to ignore the statistics that reflect that most fast players are black. If any of you have watched sprints at the NCAA finals, virtually every elite runner is African American.

His choice of words might have been flawed in the sense that he could have simply said they needed more team speed, but perhaps his remarks were addressed to certain sectors of the school that needed to hear his specific statements. I say, cut the guy some slack....

[onenote]

30. Sorry, this guy deserves no slack -- and you might check the stats

"Perhaps the greatest variable in determining team success at the Division 1 level of college football (assuming coaching is adequate) is team speed. Moreover, while there are extremely fast non-Black players and slow Black players, it is naive to ignore the statistics that reflect that most fast players are black."

Okay, so explain this: so far this season, Air Force has defeated San Diego State (41-29), UNLV (42-7) and Univ of Wash (20-17). Every one of those teams has 3 times as many African American players as USAF. So gross generalizations about speed and race aren't going to cut it as a defense of USAF's idiot coach.

onenote

[AztecGringo]

38. Speed is a key variable

Other things being equal, SPEED is a key variable similar to size in the sense that these things are given and not taught. Air Force, as other service academies, have traditionally executed very well, been highly disciplined, and, when successful, have used offensive and defensive schemes to maximize their limited talent. For instance, Air Force was just about the last team to continue to play the wishbone given its inability to compete with DI teams any other way.

I am in no way racist; however, I would venture to bet that the teams Air Force beat might have been faster, but weaker in other areas (i.e., discipline, execution, general talent). By the way, the three teams you mentioned as having lost to Air Force all suck terribly....

[onenote]

44. I certainly wasn't suggesting racism on your part; but the coach

seems to be viewing things through a racial prism. First, as you point out, there are factors other than speed that impact a team's performance. I'm sure USAF has trouble recruiting the top prospects. The speed of its white players probably doesn't measure up to that of the white players at the schools that have defeated USAF. So if the problem is speed, suggesting that more African-American players would rectify it is bull.

Second, the subtle, but nonetheless real, undercurrent of his remarks is a sort of "woe is me" position: if only I could get more minority players we'd be better, but of course, we're a service academy with really high standards and African-Americans don't meet those standards. You may disagree, but I think that is the undercurrent of his remarks that is particularly offensive. I notice that USAF lost to Navy -- and both schools have pretty much the same percentage of minority students.

onenote

[K-W]

67. Except that correllation does not equal causation. EOM

[ChairmanAgnostic]

28. I wonder why his prayers for victory are not working?

maybe that would tell him something?

[PunkPop]

31. Ignorant nutjob

nt

[bigtime]

33. "Afro-Americans"??

So he thinks that their hairstyle makes them run fast? :shrug:

[MadisonProgressive]

64. No it would slow them down because they'd weigh more

[kentuck]

35. This is a hot story in Colorado Spring...

It's brings back memories of Jimmy the Greek...

[Karenina]

39. And we all remember what happened to him!

:bounce:

[Squatch]

36. He's a coach of people who tend to do a lot of running...

Sounds like a statement based on professional experience.

[K-W]

68. Yah, watching people run qualifies him to make claims about genetics. nt

[Jed Dilligan]

41. I guess I would run pretty well too

If people on Team Jesus were following me around racially profiling me all the time...

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

47. LOL, excellent riposte! n/t

MKJ

[av8rdave]

42. I'll be at the Air Force - Army game on the 5th...

Wish I could pass on some of the comments to coach DeBerry.

I'm a graduate of AFA. It's ironic how much this coach seems to put his foot in his mouth. One of the things that impressed me with the Academy (granted - this was back in the late 70s) was how non-racist the place truly was. The faculty and staff would absolutely not tolerate racial discrimination at all - not in word or in deed.

Being in the first class that had females, I can't say the same for the treatment of women then, and only hope that situation improves over time.

As far as coaches go, during my days there, the football coach was an odd fit, as he was one of the few non-military faculty members. I don't know all that much about DeBerry other than his recent behaviors that put him in the spotlight. He certainly doesn't make a good impression!

Academies typically have a tougher time fielding a competitive football team, but that's because nobody with professional aspirations wants to go to a service academy due to the active duty service commitment that follows. I fail to see how one can play a race card on that, although DeBerry tried.

I watched Saturday's game on TV. I'm no football expert, but they didn't lose the game because of race or speed. They lost because of poor execution and poor coaching. Even painting Mr. DeBerry a different color wouldn't fix that!

av8rdave

[rocktivity]

53. Another example of great minds thinking alike!

Originally posted by Av8rDave:
(D)uring my days there, the football coach was an odd fit, as he was one of the few non-military faculty members...

Academies typically have a tougher time fielding a competitive football team, but that's because nobody with professional aspirations wants to go to a service academy due to the active duty service commitment that follows. I fail to see how one can play a race card on that, although DeBerry tried.

SIR! Seeing as I am a mere civilian, I am pleased that our posts so closely resemble each other, SIR!

:headbang:
rocknation

[av8rdave]

74. I am a mere civilian these days as well....

You made the point eloquently!

av8rdave

[Strawman]

45. What is it about Colorado and kooky RW football coaches?

McCartney the Promise Keepers guy and now this guy?

[Hand]

46. I wonder if it's occurred to him that his team may have a shitty coach? nt

[mahatmakanejeeves]

48. In that case,

we'd better hope that al Qaeda doesn't start handing out 40s of Schlitz Malt Liquor as a recruiting tool.

http://www.40ozmaltliquor.com/bluebull.html

Look out for the bull.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

49. Are you serious or missing the sarcasm smiley? n/t

MKJ

[mahatmakanejeeves]

60. I never use those things

.

[Miss Chybil]

50. Man says girls better communicators.

Woman says men have more upper body strength.
Man says women have more strength in their abdominals.
Woman says men mostly wear pants.
Man says women wear pants, but look better in them.
Biologist says birds fly better than dogs.
Dog trainer says dogs like bones.
I say people are very sensitive.

[AspenRose]

55. Jimmy the Greek! Is that you?

*sigh*

Race is a social construct, people....no magical powers or evil tendencies inherent biologically in ANYONE.

[rocktivity]

57. I wonder how Mr. DeBerry would react to my saying

that service academy athletic teams don't do as well because they can only hire bottom-of-the-barrel coaches who would NEVER be able to "cut it" at a "real" college!

:headbang:
rocknation

[Coastie for Truth]

59. "Immigrants" - we called them "Green horns"

whether from the valleys of the former Yugoslavia or up from the rural south -- always sought after by the football powerhouses.

My dad was a former college foot ball player (first generation American) and his cousin (a former college basketball player also a first generation American) always said - for "immigrants" (and they included African-Americans who were still "excluded" - just like "green horns") sports was the front door to the American dream.

I grew up in the "Rust Belt" - and a football scholarship was the path out of the coal mine or steel mill -- white or black.

[bballny]

61. I hate to quote this guy

but OJ said the same exact thing about 25 years ago. Anyone who has ever played a lot of sports knows African Americans are faster. Name all your white running backs. Denver was the last team I can remember havind=g 2 white guys start in the backfield and they had no chance of winning. That being said the reason why this "attitude" is so bad is that it plays into the stereotype of Mandingo and better athletes- smaller brains. This is a very touchy subject. What gets to me is that white kids in America don't think they can compete in basketball so they don't even try while the Europeans have no such feelings and they compete just fine in the NBA.

[K-W]

69. It is a commonly held belief, but that doesnt make it true.

It might be true. There might be significant genetic differences between various racial populations that effect athletic performance.

It is one potential explenation for what we observe.

But we wont know until we have a better understanding of those genetics, and once we do have such an understanding, race wont really matter because genetics, not race will be what counts.

If a coach wants fast players he needs to recruit the fastest players he can find, not the blackest players he can find. If the fastest players happen to be black, fine, but its the stopwatch, not the skin color that inform the coach who is fast. Speculating on whether or not blacks are naturally faster has nothing to do with his job.

The problem here is that the coach is speculating about racial differences. It is certainly not wrong to speculate about racial differences but there is a time and a place.

[Allenberg]

70. Hmm.

Perhaps this would explain why in the six years I served in the Air Force I could count on one hand the number of black officers I met.

[sakabatou]

72. "I am a member of Team Jesus Christ."

:spray:

[bobbieinok]

76. the real question here: why aren't there more blacks at the AF Academy?