National groups won't let Kansas use materials in science standards

[struggle4progress]

JOHN HANNA

Associated Press


TOPEKA, Kan. - Two national groups say the state can't use their copyright material in proposed science standards that critics contend promote creationism.

The National Academy of Sciences and the National Science Teachers Association notified the Department of Education in writing, the groups and state officials confirmed Wednesday to The Associated Press. The department had sought permission to use material from each group's standards.

The State Board of Education expects to vote next month on the proposed standards, which incorporate language sought by intelligent-design advocates expressing skepticism about evolution. The board's conservative majority contends it wants only to give students a balanced view of evolution, but critics say they're promoting intelligent design, which detractors describe as a repackaged form of creationism.

The two groups' positions mean department attorneys must scrutinize any standards the board approves to make sure they do not lift language from the national groups' material. <snip>

http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/state/13003671.htm

[ClassWarrior]

1. That's beautiful.

NGU.

[alcibiades_mystery]

2. Perfecto

Lovely strategy.

Don't like science? Make up you're own friggin' standards. You don't get to pick and choose from ours.

Now, about that accreditation....

[murielm99]

8. Correct.

Imagine kids from Kansas who want to go to college. None of their science classes will qualify. If they want to go to med school, they will have to start from scratch.

I wonder if the board of higher education in Kansas has anticipated any of this. I wonder what their response will be. Will any high school grads from Kansas be able to get admission to college programs outside their own state? This could be interesting.

[KansDem]

10. This is what worries me...

As the father of a 13- and 7-year old, I am deeply concerned about their education in this state, and their chances at college. Imagine what the admissions folks would say at Stanford or MIT when they receive an application for admission from a Kansas high-school student: their applications would be laughed right out of the office.

If the fundies continue with this crap, I fear the only colleges they will be able to attend will be Kansas colleges and Bob Jones University. And I wonder about the Kansas colleges. Talk about irony!

[The Doctor.]

26. Yes...

A child engendered (programmed) with Creatonism cannot become a serious Astronomer, Physicist, Biologist, Chemist, Geologist... any science that requires a basic understanding of the age of the Earth or the Universe it resides in.

It will be very sad to watch some states drop into an impoverished dark-age, from whence young adults have no hope of competing in the academic world.

[northzax]

33. forget out of state schools

think a Nationally known university like Kansas or K-State will take people without science classes? or will KU and KState become useless appendages? That would be a shame.

[peterh]

19. It’s already happening here in California…..

And the UC system is probably the most sought after and toughest to get into…


http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2005/08/27/news/californian/13_06_458_26_05.txt

Lawsuit against UC system claims religious bias

Tyler said that part of the lawsuit also delves into science classes, contending that the UC system is denying some science courses that use common Christian science textbooks because its officials don't approve of the fact that they refer to creationism

[PurityOfEssence]

24. As a product of the U.C. system, it simply makes me proud

The advances of mankind, in all arenas, have been based on scientific method.

Long before the rigors of scientific method were delineated, the understanding among the competent and truthful were working along the same lines: peer review and provability through repeated demonstrations. This is the same for engineering as it is for societies conventions and laws.

To hold oneself above reproach is to disdain others and to dismiss reality. This is why there's a separation of church and state: without it, there's an aristocracy, and that aristocracy doesn't even need to explain itself.

Accepting that one is not above others is the basis of decent society, and this pluralism has triumphed over all sorts of tyrannies and idiocies since the dawn of history. That we get our asses kicked on a regular basis doesn't refute this reality.

Tightly-clutched fantasies are the stuff of scared people, just as foolish consistencies are the hobgoblins of little minds (pluralized from the wisdom of Ralph Waldo Emerson).

Good. The scientific community SHOULD fight back to marginalize the domineering acts of primitives.

[murielm99]

25. I am sure that at least a few other DUers have educational

experiences similar to mine and my husband's.

I attended a university associated with the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod. We learned science in our science classes, and religion in our religion classes. I do not remember a single student arguing with a biology or geology teacher about intelligent design and creationism. We learned the stuff, and that was it. I am a boomer. We questioned everything. In fact, there it was more likely for there to be discussion and disagreement in my theology classes, which were required for graduation.

My husband attended McPherson College, in Kansas. The school is affiliated with the Church of the Brethren. He also learned science in his science classes and religion in his religion classes without conflict. Interestingly, my late father-in-law was always an amateur earth scientist and quite and expert on Indian artifacts. He belonged to a statewide earth science club. I met many of the members at his funeral. I think he had those interests because he was an old farmer who spent much of his life digging up many fossils and Indian artifacts. Pa was a devout man and a pacifist. He saw no conflict between science and faith. He passed his interests and his faith along to my husband.

If these people want ignorant children, I guess it is their right. But the rest of us are entitled to our standards. If they have so little respect for science, why do they use modern science-based technology? Do they choose doctors based on faith instead of science?

I am glad someone is holding these people accountable. I hope they lose their California lawsuits, too.

[Pirate Smile]

27. I went to Catholic schools and it was the same. Science in science

class - religion in religion class. The two don't get mixed up.

[MisterP]

3. this'll make them mad that they can't hold the nation hostage again:

like those old prunes in Texas who censored Texan--and thus national--textbooks

[MuseRider]

4. God I am glad my kids are in college now!

Good for them. This will be very interesting to watch. LOL, as much as I hate to see this for the kids it is about the only thing left to be done.

[fearnobush]

5. May they include his most noodleyness.

<>
<><><>
<><>
<http://www.venganza.org/index.htm>

[reprobate]

11. Have you considered a car stick-on similar to the jesus fish? I'd love

to have a couple.

[jonkronz2003]

15. You can buy them here.........

http://www.rof.com/

[reprobate]

21. Than you, jon. Just ordered two. I'm now officially a Pastafarian.

Finally found a faith I can sink my teeth into!

[A Simple Game]

32. That's just not right.

Funny, but not right.

Thanks for the chuckle.

[bluedawg12]

6. Clearly the kids in Kansas will have great jobs as farmers, mechanics

and preachers. We'll just keep sending the engineering jobs, tech jobs, and medical jobs over seas, or import those workers.

Their kids will have fine jobs slinging patriotic christian burgers for minimum wage. Nice legacy to leave their kids. Well educated for the 1500's!

[Viking12]

12. Farmers need a good science education

Modern agriculture depends on good science and a working knowledge of evolution.

[Realityhack]

22. ?

I know modern agriculture is based on these things... but that does not necisarily mean you need them to DO it. Cars are based on various scientific principles but you do not necisarily need to know them to work on a car.

Am I missing something?

[northzax]

34. I think it's the difference

between being a farmer and working on a farm.

[sleipnir]

7. Fucking A....

This is getting beyond ridiclous....

I'm glad I got my solid science education out the state while I did...

And I was soooooo close to becoming a field/research biologist after high school. Damn, what's happened?

[fasttense]

9. I'm glad my last child is graduating in 2006.

I wont have to worry about these fake christians polluting her with their fake science.

[anotherdrew]

13. to hell with Kansas, this is what they want, let them have it

Kansas can become a Traditional White Christian Reservation. Let all these brain-damaged mind-controlled fools get the hell out of my state and move to the so-called Christian nation of kansas. The internet will stop at the boarder, along with all those other evil satanic lies that science has brought us.

[Bridget Burke]

16. Why should those folks leave your state?

I've seen the election maps. The Coast may be all groovy & blue, but there's plenty of red in eastern Oregon.

[anotherdrew]

18. because they don't want to live in America

America has seperation of church and state. These super-christians want their view and only their view to hold sway over everything. This is as un-american as it gets.

[yellowcanine]

14. "They are such adamant evolutionists," said board Chairman Steve Abrams,

Well cry me a river Stevie. You want to use their standards because it would offer credibility but you want to deviate from the standards when they conflict with your religious views. Suck it up buddy - you can't have it both ways.

[Zenlitened]

17. That's exactly it. The Talibornagains want the credibility...

... NAS and NSTA standards would impart. Good move by both groups not to get suckered in. The decision may actually help schoolchildren in Kansas in the long run, by helping show what a bucket of nonsense the fundies' come up with when left to their own devices.

[triguy46]

20. they should have no trouble making up their materials...

they seem to be able to create fiction at will, they'll just need to put their pointy little heads together and intelligently design the scientific side to be weak, dumb, difficult, anti god, anti US, anti repug, and all the other things they think science is.

And I'm from Kansas. Shit.

[sarcasmo]

23. Kick and a nom, if they teach ID they have to teach

WWFSMD

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

28. Hurray for the scientists! Let these people have their 'un'science world

That's what they voted for/wanted.

Glad the scientific community is taking a stand.:applause:

[roguevalley]

29. about time. I hope they kick Kansas so hard, they come to their

senses. For the sake of Kansas children, I hope so. If people don't like evolution, they can leave like they did during segregation. they will be back. trust me.

[A-Possum]

30. Copyright protection

Hmm, where are all the shouts now about "copyright nihilists" and "information wants to be free!"

How come DU'ers are so happy to see these organizations be able to invoke copyright to prevent the use of their work in a way they don't want it used, but when I try to defend my right to protect my novels from, say, Google Print, I get flamed as being selfish and retro and too stupid to realize what's good for me?

Double standard, anyone?

[Mythsaje]

31. Somebody should just tell them

that we'll put faith over science the minute any one of them can pray him or her self into orbit.