Fargo moms try to ban Grisham book

[Judi Lynn]

Fargo moms try to ban Grisham book
FARGO, N.D., Nov. 7 (UPI) -- Two women want the Fargo (N.D.) School District to eliminate John Grisham's novel "A Time to Kill" from an English class at North High School.

Pamela Sund Herschlip and Ruth Walsh don't consider themselves censors or book banners, they merely see themselves as two moms who care about their kids, the Fargo Forum reported,

They say the book is too graphic and the antithesis of quality literature.

Their request to have the book removed was denied at the building and district levels. They will appear Tuesday before the School Board.

For them, the novel and the district's support of it is a symptom of a society gone awry.
(snip/...)

http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20051107-23100300-bc-us-bookban.xml

[Fenris]

1. Man, I hope they haven't heard about "To Kill A Mockingbird"

What vulgar trash!:crazy:

[wicket]

29. Don't forget Huckleberry Finn

Who in God's name actually thinks that trash counts as literature?? :crazy:

THese people are insane.

[apnu]

46. That's the most banned book ever, I believe

I'm not a big Twain fan, but I love Huck Finn for all the banning.

I make it a habit to read banned books, they're usually the good ones. Crappy books never get banned.

[asjr]

2. I do not understand these people. It is fiction and

the best of John Grisham. I wonder if they really read it.

[markus]

3. This is weird

Unless I've fallen into a timewarp, UPI has this wrong. They've already been to the board level and lost.

Unless they're trying again, and I missed that entirely.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. Oh for Pete's sake

Can't they come up with a dirtier book to ban?

[drhilarius]

5. Won't somebody pleeeeeease think of the children?!

I have to admit, Grisham isn't exactly quality lit, but the themes the novel deals with are important. Why not assign "To kill a Mockingbird"?

[RoyGBiv]

10. The "funny" part ...

_A Time to Kill_, his first novel, is probably the one that is closest to "quality literature," whatever that really means. In any case, it is at least original for him in that he hadn't already done it ten times over.

The problem some people have with it -- and I'm fairly certain the problem these so-called protectors of children have with it -- is that it questions moral absolutes in a way that hits too close to home for some. Of course there's also the rabid racists who think the little girl got what she deserved, but surely people in Fargo wouldn't be like that. Surely.

[DemInDistress]

6. add that to the IRS threatening churches who

denounce this unholy war in Iraq definitely sounds like a society not
free to dissent.A man detained for having anti-bush material,1,900
arrests for demonstrating against the RNC and many more abuses..

[Kali]

7. must be a scam to get every kid at that school to read it

great idea, maybe I should do that in my town, what book should I try to have banned?

[DBoon]

8. One that I wrote and would receive royalties from

obviously!

Now all I have to do is write a really trashy novel...

[MissMillie]

32. I was thinking the same thing...

Tell them it's not appropriate and watch the waiting list for it at the library soar.

[XemaSab]

45. Chaucer

:D

[bluestateguy]

9. Two women don't like it, so it must be banned

I thought these guys on the right were all about majoritarianism.

Tell these two Helen Lovejoy's to put a sock in and let the educational professionals do their jobs.

[pk_du]

11. Please just google this womans name to see all you need to

...talk about a history....

[saigon68]

20. I GOOGLED Pamela Sund Herschlip

SHE IS A REAL "PIECE OF WORK"

[Doremus]

38. Sheesh, no kidding! How did the folks of Fargo ever get along

without Ms. Herschlip's moral compass to lead them?

:sarcasm:

[lavenderdiva]

12. I can't believe they even read the book...

If they did, they could not have possibly come away feeling this way, IMHO. This book is about how inhuman people can be to one another, the pursuit of justice, and ultimately one man's belief and trust in another.

Also, this book was written back in 1992. If these women have such a problem, where have they been all this time? It was a best seller when it was first published, became a big-time movie filled with well-known stars, and they are just NOW coming to the party?

[Hardrada]

13. When I had a regular brick and mortar book biz

I used to want to make a list of books I had that weren't moving, Daphne du Maurier for instance and try to get them banned.

[yurbud]

14. Why are they reading that pulp crap instead a GOOD novel with graphic

violence?

Why can't a principal ever tell someone they're an illiterate knuckle-dragging jethro?

the sad thing is, this sounds like a battle between dumb and persistent vegetative state.

[LostinVA]

33. "A Time to Kill" isn't pulp crap -- it's a good book

[AngryAmish]

49. All grisham is crap

Just a dissenting opinion.

[donco6]

51. I think he's OK.

But literature? Hmmm.

[RebelOne]

52. I disagree. I have read and enjoyed many of his books.

"The Painted House" is excellent. Read it, you'll enjoy it.

[LostinVA]

57. True -- that one is quite good

I read it because several "highbrow" readers I know loved it.

[LostinVA]

56. A Time to Kill isn't crap

You can not like his writing -- and God knows the writing in many of his books sucks -- but ATTK is a decent book.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

15. I wonder how they'd feel about "In Cold Blood."

Which is a MUCH better crime story and overall work than A Time to Kill. The fact that it's based on a true story is an added bonus.

Even my high school (located in ultra-red central Texas) read much more violent literature.

[Speed8098]

22. No Way

While I like Truman Capotes' writing style, and the true story is a gripping read, "A Time to Kill" was one of the best written novels I've ever read.

Why anyone would want to ban this book is beyond my comprehension.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

62. Seriously?

While Grisham may be a top-tier second-stringer, I'd take In Cold Blood any day.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

40. that is required reading for my sons 10 grade this year

[aden_nak]

16. We're not book banners, but we do want to ban books.

[fearnobush]

17. How about Libby's "The Apprentice" The bestiality will go great

with the Red States christian morals.

[TheGunslinger]

18. I assume the Bible will be next?

[Sgent]

19. A Time to Kill

is one of the few books that IMHO is actually worthy of a Lit class -- and it was Grisham's first.

Of course, that's probably why it didn't sold -- I still remember John peddling them (self published) out of the back of his station wagon.

It wasn't until The Client became a bestseller that anyone read his earlier works (outside of the Oxford, MS area).

[ixion]

21. while I don't agree with book banning, I do agree that Grisham's work

is not quality fiction. ;-)

[DrZeeLit]

43. Um.... I'll bite... who died and made you Arbiter of Good Taste and Lit?

Have you read A Time to Kill?
(no, not the movie....)

Quality? Who's sliding scale are you using?
I'm vexed about tossing around such arbitrary remarks without using criteria.

Quality? Quality fiction?

It's helpful to know that Aristotle believes that art should be an "imitation" of life. It should hold a mirror up to life. It should be "truthful," or "true to life."

"A Time to Kill" is a moral story with depth. Don't dismiss so easily.

[ixion]

44. Well, I'm entitled to my opinion

No, I haven't, in entirety. Usually a paragraph or two tells me what I need to know. I can't stand reading most contemporary fiction, especially by novelists like Grisham.

Grisham is a genre fiction hack, not a shining example of American Literature, and I will stand by that statement.

We'll wait and see, though. Eighty years from now, I wonder if Grisham's work will still be around. Author's like Steinbeck, Hemingway and Twain are timeless. There work survives because of the Quality. There stories are as true today as they were then. I don't think you can make that claim about most contemporary fiction.

[Kali]

50. Normally I can't stand the spelling/grammar police but

for someone lecturing on the subject of "literature" to use "there" incorrectly, well, I can't seem to help myself.


edit for SPELLING!!! :rofl:

[RebelOne]

54. I'm on your side. Also, it is authors and not author's in the possessive.

[ixion]

63. yeah, sorry... long day

:dunce:

[hiaasenrocks]

55. One thing is for sure...

"Steinbeck, Hemingway and Twain are timeless."

Most likely because of school reading lists. Most of these authors' works would have long ago gone out of print, but for the fact that they are required reading. As someone who follows the publishing industry very closely (for business reasons) I can tell you that it's the "genre fiction" (crime/suspense/mystery and, yes, romance novels) that keeps the money flowing, thus allowing so-called "classics" to remain in print.

"There work survives because of the Quality."

Not true. (And it's "their.")

[LostinVA]

58. I've been in publishing, and you're right

The movie business works the same way.

[LostinVA]

60. "A Time to Kill" is very good

Yes, quality fiction -- and I only read about five fiction books a year because so much of it is sucky now. This is his first book, and it really shines.

[xchrom]

23. we must have ignorance!

lol -- this so not surprising from creature like these.

[Rowdyboy]

24. What horrible lessons for children...racial reconciliation, justice, and

the idea that good triumphs over evil are filthy things to allow an innocent child to read. Let's replace it with Scooters book about "girl/bear sex" or maybe Lynn Cheney's "romance". That'll teach 'em good Republican family values.

on edit: I admit, I'm a bit prejudiced. They filmed most of the movie about four blocks from my home. I'm friends with 4 extras who were in the jury, and was lucky enough to score tickets to the premiere down in Jackson.

[izzie]

25. I love it when they do this. Crazy but it makes me laugh

:banghead:

[leesa]

26. What on earth is an English class studying Grisham for? How NOT to write?

[Jim__]

27. That was my first thought.

I've never considered Grisham a quality writer. But, the subject matter of this book does sound interesting - controversial. If it can spark thinking and discussion in a high school English class; then I think it's worth a shot.

[Occulus]

37. That's WHY they want it gone.

It induces thoughtful discussion. It makes kids actually think about the world they live in.

Scary that some parents would want to keep their children ignorant of reality for as long as possible. We are raising an entire generation of people who are going to go out in the world and have to deal with the ignorance that their parents inflicted upon them, and our society will deeply suffer as a result.

[LostinVA]

28. "A Time to Kill" is a very, very good -- and decently written

It was his first, when he was still a lawyer who wrote, not "John Grisham." Excellent read. And I am NOT a JG fan...

[Bombero1956]

30. also

Not a book banner? This is the second book she's tried to ban. She and her husband went after "Mick Harte Was Here" last October. Mick Harte Was Here deals with a young girl's grief after her brother is killed in an accident. Now they're after Grisham. I'm not a book banner is like saying I'm not a bigot, what they claim to not be is what they are.

[LostinVA]

34. Exactly -- like when someone runs around crying, "I'm a good

Christian," I'm always like.... uh-oh. The Christians I know that really ARE Christian and emulate Jesus are very quiet about it and live a good life -- to paraphrase the NT: they don't stand on the corner screaming prayers and rending clothing.

[PDX Bara]

36. "A Quiet Christian"

I once read an essay titled "A Quiet Christian" or something like that. It was about living the Christian life by example and not by ramming it down someone's throat - much more effective in my opinion.

[Terran]

31. My thought too--Grisham isn't "literature"

He's not even representative of current serious writing. His stuff is pop culture, nothing more. So why is this book even in the school's curiculum?

[Jed Dilligan]

35. Well, I agree on one thing

"the antithesis of quality literature."

[AnneD]

39. OMG

In HS I read McBeth, Julius Ceaser, Romeo and Juliet, and Hamlet. No wonder I am a depraved member of society and the DU. Shakespeare had it all, murder, incest, premarital sex, and vocabulary that will break your jaw bone.....May I suggest they read from the Bible say Cain and Able, David and Bathsheba, Abraham (dallying around with the maid Hagar then trying to kill his son). Or try the New Testament-God forbid they ever try to actually live like Christ.

[GoldenOldie]

41. Eliminate, Ban, Censor

If these ladies can't comprehend the meaning/intent of these words they probably have difficulty reading themselves therefore they are or should be unqualified to say what books should be pulled from the schools/libraries.

I would wager that they have Harry Potter on their list of baaad books too.

[geckosfeet]

42. Yeah - how about the bible - some graphic depictions in there.

How about that part where they nail a guy to a cross.

[superconnected]

47. one of them is a university instructor...and has a history of wanting

books banned.


http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:yhVt8bsOn7EJ:www.angelfire.com/scifi/dreamweaver/bannedbks/chrono7b.html+Pamela+Herschlip+&hl=en

Another book Pamela Sund Herschlip tried to get banned:

"The presence of the book in elementary schools in Fargo, North Dakota, is being challenged by Pamela Sund Herschlip and her husband Mark Herschlip, on the grounds that the book is inappropriate for elementary students. Ms. Sund Herschlip is an adjunct instructor at Minnesota State University, in Moorhead, and Minnesota State Community and Technical College. She teaches art, poetry, research writing, and reviews art exhibitions and books. The book contains profanity, including use of "damn" and "suck", and the phrase "Oh Jesus." In Ms. Sund Herschlip's evaluation the book has redeeming qualities, but has themes that require an "adult" mind to be dealt with. The passages to which they object were cited as: "...


The other doesn't think her 10th grader is ready for it:

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:wg5yvgp4aj8J:www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm%3Fid%3D95331+%22Ruth+Walsh%22+fargo+ban&hl=en


Ruth Walsh filed the original complaint to school officials in mid-April, arguing the book was inappropriate because of graphic rape and murder scenes.

Dahlen said Walsh's daughter was assigned the novel in her 10th-grade accelerated English class in the fall. Substitute teacher Deborah Meyers asked students to compare the work to Harper Lee's "To Kill a Mockingbird," Dahlen said. Both novels depict racial injustices within the U.S. court system.

Dahlen said students were warned about the content of "A Time to Kill" and were given the option to choose a different assignment.

"Students had an option of either reading the novel, or choosing something off our summer reading list," Dahlen said. "And they have an option of either staying in the classroom to discuss the novel, or leaving the room."

.
.
.

"There has been no indication of any sensitivity to the student who had been harmed by this very obscene material or to her family," Sund Herschlip said."


Gee, the book HARMED a kid?

[hughee99]

48. Christmas with the Kranks sucked...

If you want to ban something from Grisham, that should be it.

[LostinVA]

61. He didn't write Christmas with the Kranks

He wrote Skipping Christmas, which was a fun satire. Chris Columbus wrote CWTK, which took this fun, satirical book and made it into a brainless slapstick movie.

[donco6]

53. It's not the first go-round for Pamela Sund Herschlip:

She's been involved in book banning before:

Mick Harte Was Here details the grieving process of thirteen-year-old Phoebe after her twelve-year-old brother dies in a bicycle accident. The eighty-eight-page novel is told from Phoebe’s point of view. An author’s note in the back said she wrote the novel to encourage students to wear bike helmets. The book contains profanity, including use of “damn, “ “suck” and the phrase “Oh Jesus.”

The Herschlips also were disturbed by a discussion of unplanned pregnancy and what they viewed as a glorification of eating disorders. As Phoebe describes Mick’s personality, she mentions he was a surprise. “He loved it, too. Being a surprise, I mean,” Phoebe tells the reader. “He was always teasing my parents about it. Telling them that even before he existed, he could outsmart two chemistry majors with birth control pills.”

Mark Herschlip, a chemical engineer, said the mention of birth control isn’t appropriate in a book for younger students. It isn’t something he wants his daughter to talk about. “The problem is there is no rating system on books,” he said. “There’s no indication of what might be in the book unless you read it, so we rely on our professionals in the schools to choose appropriate materials.”

http://www.abffe.com/bbw-ala-anchorage.htm

[yurbud]

59. shouldn't they have a literacy test for parents before they complain?