Democratic senators call on Bush to pledge he won't pardon Libby

[sabra]

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Democratic_senators_call_on_Bush_to_1108.html

Democratic senators call on Bush to pledge he won't pardon Libby


Democratic senators Harry Reid (D-NV), Dick Durbin (D-IL) and Chuck Schumer (D-NY) will call on President Bush to pledge that he will not pardon Vice President Cheney's former chief of staff I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby if he is found guilty in connection with his role in the CIA outing case, RAW STORY has learned.

Libby was recently indicted for perjury, obstruction of justice, and making false statements to the grand jury investigating the outing of CIA officer Valerie Plame Wilson.

The letter is to be released around 2:15 pm ET. An aide tells RAW STORY the letter is "part of a sustained campaign by the Democratic leadership."

...

Democratic and Republican senators met today to discuss how to handle an continuing probe into intelligence failures that preceded the war.

[murielm99]

1. They are our three wise men. nt

[soothsayer]

2. bwa ha ha! That is HI-LARIOUS! No wonder a WH reporter

asked about this in today's briefing....

[yellowcanine]

3. What did Scotty dog say?

[Brooklyn Michael]

4. "I cannot comment on that at this time."

What did you THINK he'd say?

[yellowcanine]

5. Heh. Figures. Scotty should just record that answer and replay it on

cue. Hell he might not have to show up at the gaggle at all. He could record his top ten responses and have an administrative assistant play the appropriate one.


10. We are continuing to hunt terraists and spread democracy.
9. We are not going to get into finger pointing.
8. The President is going to focus on working for the American people, creating jobs and keeping them safe from terraists.
7. There is an on-going investigation by the special prosecutor. Everyone should remember that in our system of justice people are presumed innocent until proven guilty.
6. Huh?
5. I have answered that question many times in the past. I am not going to rehash it now.
4. The President agrees with the majority leader in the Senate that his nominations deserve an upperdown vote.
3. People should be careful about making accusations that will encourage the terraists.
2. The President has said many times that the United States does not torture people.
1. I cannot comment on that at this time.

[Brooklyn Michael]

7. Take a bet....?

...as to how long it would take the MSM press in the gaggle to realize it was just a cardboard cutout of him at the lectern with a tape recorder stuck to its back?

[Carolab]

17. You forgot, "you obviously have a different view".

The one he uses to paint the jounos as unpatriotic when they ask probing questions about torture, etc.

[Nothing Without Hope]

25. Scotty's terrible day with the WH reporters is in the Olbermann clip below

great video - McClellan is at the end. It's linked to downthread in Reply #24.

[Burning Water]

6. As a practical matter,

Why would George Bush make such a pledge?? What's in it for him? And why shouldn't Libby have as much right to a pardon as any other crook, when you get right down to it? Besides, if he knew he couldn't get a pardon, he might talk!!!

But first, we need a conviction. Pardon talk is premature.

Damn George Bush!!

[lyonn]

8. War is a pretty good reason in my opinion

bushco don't follow the law, why should libby get better treatment than our troops that are dying for lies. Pardon and lies about attacking another country shouldn't go hand in hand.

Edit: Can a president pardon a traitor?

[Burning Water]

10. I was being

a little ironic, although legally, why not?

Yes, a president can pardon a traitor. Besides, Libby is not charged with anything to do with the war, or with treason. You know he's guilty, and I know he's guilty, but he is not charged with either. I said at the time, Fiztmas was a bust.

You know what's worse, IMO? There are people that think something is going to come out of the trial. I don't think so. I think it will remain narrowly focused on the technical felonies that Libby is actually charged with. In fact, I think he will wind up walking. I have slightly more hope for the Congressional inquiry, but not much. The bastards slipped the noose once again.

Damn George Bush!!

[kestrel91316]

27. "ironic"??? Perhaps you meant to say "facetious".

Ironic/irony is now the most mis-used word in the English language.

Nobody seems to care anymore that words actually have specific meanings...........sigh.

[Burning Water]

31. No, I was being ironic

From dictionary.com. See #3.


i·ron·ic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-rnk) also i·ron·i·cal (-rn-kl)
adj.
1. Characterized by or constituting irony.
2. Given to the use of irony. See Synonyms at sarcastic.
3. Poignantly contrary to what was expected or intended: madness, an ironic fate for such a clear thinker.

Nobody seems to care anymore that words actually have specific meanings...........sigh. So true, especially around here.

[IndianaGreen]

9. Would you have pardoned Adolf Hitler?

We must demand that a plank be put on the 2008 Democratic platform in which the Presidential nominee pledges to not pardon Bush, Cheney or any of their henchmen, and to order the Justice Department to conduct an investigation of war crimes committed by officials of the Bush Administration.

[Burning Water]

11. No, but

Goering might have. My question was: why should Bush agree to do any such thing? He's not on our side. It's not in his interests, insofar as I can see. I'm not asking about the rights and wrongs. I know what those are.

[Pacifist Patriot]

21. Nope, not premature at all.

This is an astute political move and put Bush between a geological formation and a dense spot.

[Burning Water]

32. I don't know.

I think it is exceedingly clumsy. All Bush has to do is keep saying that Libby hasn't been convicted of anything,that he is entitled to a presumption of innocence, and that talk of a pardon is premature. He will try to make us look like we are vindictively trying to kick the man when he is down by foreclosing his legal options and defenses.

But maybe it will work. I just don't think so.

[kestrel91316]

26. Wrong. He can pardon him anytime. He could have pardoned him

even prior to the indictment.

Read up on your history. I think there was somebody in Iran-Contra (Walsh???) that Reagan or Bush I pardoned prior to indictment.

[Burning Water]

33. Sure he can, but why bother?

It's not needed yet. Also, he will look like he's abandoning a comrade to the RW. He can't afford that.

Nope, IMO, by saying there is no need for a consideration of a pardon until there is a conviction, he takes the moral high ground (PR-wise), I think.

Yes, as you say, there is precedent. I probably know as much history as you do, so don't think my opinion is based on an insufficiency of relevant facts. It's just tactics on both sides, and I really think Bush has the proper (i.e., effective) defense for this.

[sofa king]

12. I gotta ask: what's the point?

As we speak, the President is busy restoring honor and integrity to the White House. So what's the point of having him make a pledge that everyone, supporters and detractors alike, knows he's gonna break?

A pledge isn't legally binding, and the press will happily report that the President promised. But nobody--nobody--is going to be surprised when he breaks that promise, and in the meantime it gives the brownshirts something to parade around as their own idea.

So seriously, what's the point of this?

[Mechatanketra]

13. E-X-A-C-T-L-Y

It is absolutely critical for Democrats in front of a microphone to realize the GOP are not sincerely interested in responsible governance, and stop acting like it.

Don't frickin' "call on" the President or Congressional Republicans to do anything. Just point out that they don't. Never waver from the stance that REAL public servants with REAL ethical and/or moral values shouldn't have to be told to do this stuff.

In this case, don't say "I call on Bush to pledge no pardons for Libby." Say "We remember Nixon and Reagan. We know the chain of command here. Everyone can be sure, if Bush signs a pardon for Libby, he may as well have it printed on a Hallmark 'Thank You' card."

[goforit]

14. This is what pisses me off about the Dems!!!...

If your gonna act like a wuz then you are a wuz.

They should be placing cuffs on Cheney and Bush combined and they're
just F*cking sit there whining to bush empowering him with
even MORE POWER to do as he damn pleases!!!

I like Durbin and Reid .....but come on!!!

Beg a criminal not to do wrong is absolutely imbecile!!!

[Burning Water]

34. My opinion exactly,

expressedfar more succintly than I have done so in my other posts on this thread.

[dkofos]

15. What a waste of time, lke asking the sun not to come up

Come on guys GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER

[Imagevision]

29. The point is to call BUSH on promised pardon before trial begins

Harry Reid asked Bush if anyone in his administration has already discussed a pardon so when Bush wave's his magic wand and pardons Libby he'll just make the GOP appear more crooked -- better that the suggestion of the pardon comes out now before the sentencing.

[Imagevision]

30. Democrats challenged Bush on Tuesday to rule out a pardon for Libby...

"We also urge you to state publicly whether anyone in the White House — including White House counsel Harriet Miers or Vice President Cheney — has already discussed the possibility of a pardon with Mr. Libby," added the letter, signed by Democratic Leader Harry Reid of Nevada and three other members of the leadership.

Senator Harry Reid challenged the president in personal terms, urging him to "avoid falling in the footsteps of his father who pardoned six men, some were convicted, some were indicted in the
Iran-Contra scandal."

At a news conference, Reid launched an extraordinary attack on Cheney, whom he said had been involved in the "manipulation of intelligence to sell the war in Iraq" as well as "leaking classified information to discredit White House critics."

[crossroads]

16. * will do what Cheney advises him to do!

He is just the hand puppet!

[daleo]

18. That's a good idea

Sure, Bush will ignore his promise if it is convenient, but every broken promise helps build the case that the neo-cons can't be trusted.

[Rose Siding]

19. AP: Democrats Don't Want Libby to Be Pardoned

WASHINGTON - The Senate's top Democrats challenged President Bush on Tuesday to rule out a pardon for I. Lewis Libby, a former top White House aide who faces trial on charges of obstruction of justice and perjury in the CIA leak case.

"We also urge you to state publicly whether anyone in the White House — including White House counsel Harriet Miers or Vice President Cheney — has already discussed the possibility of a pardon with Mr. Libby," added the letter, signed by Democratic Leader Harry Reid of Nevada and three other members of the leadership.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan declined to rule out a pardon when asked about the issue by reporters before Democrats sent their letter. "I'm not going to discuss an ongoing legal proceeding. And I'm not going to speculate about any matters relating to it," he said.

Yahoo link

[mzmolly]

20. WOO HOO! WTH did they put in the water?!

:toast: Go Dems!

[vickitulsa]

22. After reading other posts on this thread...

I'm wondering if perhaps what Reid, Durbin, et al were thinking in making this "request" formally and on paper and ahead of time is to either

A) GET the damn pledge from the faux-Prez,

OR

B) Have him on record as REFUSING to pledge not to pardon Libby.

Then if he makes such a pledge (he might be trying to win back some favor in American citizens' eyes when he so badly needs some) but later blatantly BREAKS it, he will be in deep shit as a liar (one more time).

And if he flat-out refuses to say he will not pardon Libby, then he's declaring himself as unwilling to commit to staying OUT of the legal process he has been touting so loudly and long as the investigation has developed and questions were asked that he refused to reply to using that excuse.

Frankly, given the very latest I'm hearing about this "rift" between Cheney and Bush, I'm beginning to wonder if something I speculated on quite a while back could be coming true. Could GWB POSSIBLY be beginning to believe he will have to turn on the whole damn batch of neocons including Dick and Karl, Scooter and the "thinktankers," the entire evil CULT, in order to save his "good name"?

How much have we heard the more traditional Republican "sages" (and many other "experts" as well) saying everywhere in the media since the Libby indictment that W MUST "clean house" at the White House and bring in new, trusted (and it's clear they mean more traditional, widely respected, old school) Repugs? This advice to him has been flying like wildfire in a Santa Anna wind, and it's *still* being heard frequently.

COULD IT HAPPEN???

I think the Dub-Dumbya is getting downright desperate these days. He always has found being President too much goldarned hard WORK, after all, and he's bound to be sick of it all now that it's gone so very wrong and he has to listen to scathing criticism from all sides here at home -- and even put up with riots against him in other countries when he tries to get away from it for a while.

I frankly think his psyche just can't TAKE much more of this, so I'm not ruling out the possibility that he MIGHT actually "dump the neocon bastards" if he is convinced that might actually improve some of his sagging poll numbers AND win him approval and support from the old school conservative crowd.......

Who knows what he might be willing to try at this point?

[confludemocrat]

23. This is a smart move, I just wish more than these two had stood w/Reid

As said here, this calls him on his honor and responsibility and accountability bullshit and puts it front and center and between a rock and hard place. It is astoundinmg how many naysayers there are here on this. Dems are speaking out on this clearly and it needs to be joined by others.

[Nothing Without Hope]

24. ***TERRIFIC VIDEO OF REID'S STATEMENT ON OLBERMANN/COUNTDOWN***

This is wonderful, a must-see! Keith Olbermann says Reid is on fire and he surely is. This video also contains other historic tidbits, including the demands by WH reporters that Scot McClellan answer questions on torture. At one point, he suggests that questions be put to the Vice President's office and a well-spoken reporter asks him if that implies that the VP is independent!!!

Start with Harry Reid and sail on through this, courtesy of Can-o-Fun. (Home page of the Can-o-Fun site is here:
http://www.canofun.com/blog/default.asp

Demanding Answers -Nov 8 05
HERE IS THE COUNTDOWN VIDEO LINK (windows Media):
http://www.canofun.com/blog/videos/demandinganswersnov805.wmv

:patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

[Name removed]

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