As Time Passes in Leak Probe, Rove is Seen as Less Vulnerable (WSJ)

[CoffeeCat]

WASHINGTON -- Two weeks after a White House aide's indictment in the CIA-leak case, political adviser Karl Rove and possibly other Bush administration officials remain at risk of being charged in the investigation.

But some lawyers believe that with each passing day, the odds of further indictments are diminishing. Unless the indicted aide, I. Lewis Libby, implicates others, or special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald gains some other new evidence, the investigation could end with no one else being charged, they say.

"The longer this goes without any other action by the special prosecutor, the higher the likelihood" that no additional charges will be filed, said Frank Zimring, a criminal-law expert at the University of California at Berkeley.

Some lawyers believe that Mr. Fitzgerald might be hoping to obtain evidence against Mr. Rove from Mr. Libby. Mr. Rove's camp believes he is likely to learn the prosecutor's final decision on an indictment within a matter of weeks, not months, a person familiar with the situation said last week.

(more at link)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB113175592838395449.html?mod=home_whats_news_us

[rodeodance]

1. wait till the actual sentence is handed down for Libby--!!

[marylanddem]

2. I think not.

To me this is pure hopeful spin from Rove's camp.

[wtmusic]

4. "Some lawyers believe" - the FOX spin tactic

that the WSJ is only too happy to trot out.

[merwin]

25. "Some people say" "Some people believe". That's what FOX says when

they want to propegate lies without actually flat out lying themselves.

That was a big pat of OutFOXed :-)

[UpInArms]

11. LOL! I wonder if this guy works with Yoo?

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/faculty/yooj/

John Yoo is a professor of law at the University of California at Berkeley School of Law (Boalt Hall), where he has taught since 1993. From 2001-03, he served as a deputy assistant attorney general in the Office of Legal Counsel of the U.S. Department of Justice, where he worked on issues involving foreign affairs, national security, and the separation of powers. He served as general gounsel of the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee from 1995-96, where he advised on constitutional issues and judicial nominations.

...more...

http://rwor.org/a/020/conservative-ass-john-yoo.htm

A former law clerk to Clarence Thomas and a member of the right-wing Federalist Society, John Yoo was among a group of Bush administration lawyers—including Alberto Gonzales, now Bush's attorney general—who crafted legal justification giving Bush a free hand to order the torture of those he has declared as “illegal combatants” and held at Guantanamo and elsewhere

According to the PBS documentary "The Torture Question," after 9/11, John Yoo

“wrote the first draft of a sweeping war powers authorization designed to give President Bush unprecedented power... The new statute would vest virtually unlimited power in the President to fight the war on terror. Congress passed it overwhelmingly.”

...more...

[HereSince1628]

3. Over time the known leads will be checked, investigation will remain open

until it just can't be justified anymore.

The hope will be that something will spill out during the continuing discovery and possibly the trial.

[rocktivity]

5. PUFF PIECE ALERT!!!

Consider the source, and file under Wishful Thinking.

:puffpiece:
rocknation

[LaurenG]

6. "But some lawyers... are involved in wishful thinking"

Well I am not a lawyer but I believe with each passing day the information becomes more and more damning.

In the words of Drowning Pool, 1- somethings got to give, 2-somethings got to give, 3....

[DeepModem Mom]

7. I admit -- I've started to worry about this. Rove...

does seem his old, evil self.

[DoYouEverWonder]

9. That's why Fitzgerald is a patient man

and is willing to give Rove plenty of rope to hang himself with.

[DeepModem Mom]

10. I just wish he could be gone soon, and not be available to Bush...

for the remainder of his term.

[DoYouEverWonder]

12. Don't worry Rove is spending most of his time now a days

with lawyers figuring out how to defend himself. I hear being indicted is a full time job.

[MojoXN]

19. I hear it's "hard work".

:D

MojoXN

[DoYouEverWonder]

20. At least he'll have less time to steal elections

I think that's part of what happened last week. The wheels are coming of the Repug machine and they didn't have the resources to steal as many votes.

[MojoXN]

23. I think that they were afraid of getting caught...

Pick your battles, and all that. You can fool all of the people some of the time, and you can fool some of the people all of the time. They're called Republicans. :)

MojoXN

[flyarm]

21. while FITZ IS A PATIENT MAN..ROVE WALKS AROUND A

dangerous man with all the security clearences of this nation!!

bullshit on patients...get his clearences pulled asap!!

this is dangerous to all our national security..i don't give a damn how patient fitz is...i want that sob's clearences pulled..now!!

fly

[DoYouEverWonder]

29. That is up to Congress to demand this

Fitzgerald tried to explain that in his press conference.

[leesa]

8. Some say.....Well, won't they be surprised then!

[maryallen]

13. Total BS!

[cliss]

14. If I were Rove, I wouldn't be uncorking that champagne bottle

just yet. "It ain't over till the Chubby Lady sings", as they say in opera circles. Chubby Rove has a long way to go before he does the victory celebration.

His administration is in a shambles. Bush is sinking like a rock. Cheney's approval rating is at 19%. People are starting to openly question why we went to war in Iraq.

The economy is tanking; most indicators are down.

And then there's the indictment. Just imagine the headaches when people have to start testifying. Maybe Cheney. And maybe Rove.

Fitzgerald: 'There's more than one way to win the war'.

[Olney Blue]

15. It was highly disturbing to see KK laughing it up at the

Federalist Society the other night.

Meanwhile, troops are dying......

:puke:

[sofa king]

16. Less vulnerable? He's INvulnerable.

When are we going to realize and understand what's happening here? This is the most criminal Presidency in our history, supported by the most criminal political party in modern history. The only reason these guys got close enough to steal the election in the first place is because they successfully deceived the public, and they will never, ever stop trying to do that. They're doing it for a reason.

They've set up a judicial, prosecutorial, and bureaucratic network designed to keep their policies in place and their asses out of jail. It's could take us decades to dismantle it. With Presidential pardons, the ability to kill investigations, the ability to decide not to prosecute, and the ability to toss cases out of court, all set to the Fox News symphony of disinformation, these criminals will be protected by their own.

Karl Rove is going to die a fat, old, free, fabulously wealthy and powerful man. They all are.

Our objective is far larger and more difficult than merely removing Karl Rove from the White House, which we may well fail to do. We must return this nation to the people in the face of all of this criminality. We must pray that the people who have stolen our government from beneath us are so greedy and petty that they will focus all of their enormous power on protecting themselves, while we quietly wall their self-serving policy up with grassroots legislation and strong public pressure.

They have committed the perfect crime: they stole the government, cemented it in place with terrorists and a fallacious war, demented the nation's policies to enrich themselves beyond their wildest dreams, and left the country with a ticking bomb of economic and military self-destruction in order to safely make their getaway.

[Joe Chi Minh]

42. "Less vulnerable? He's INvulnerable."

"They have committed the perfect crime:"

Go back to sleep, laddie.

[lovuian]

17. No it means Fitz is putting on more charges to get rove and

staffers!!!

[skipos]

18. No one knows what will happen. Why hypothesize either way? nt

[goforit]

54. great point!...Fitz runs a tight ship.

Hope he has the muscle behind him.

[DeepModem Mom]

22. See also this article if you missed it; he seems to think he's home-free

NYT: Rove Is More His Old Self at the White House
By ANNE E. KORNBLUT
Published: November 11, 2005

WASHINGTON, Nov. 10 - The architect, it seems, is back.

Hunkered down for almost all of October while a grand jury considered his fate, Karl Rove has rebounded as a visible presence at the White House over the last two weeks, according to administration officials and Republican colleagues. He is running meetings and pursuing candidates for the 2006 elections - and, associates say, devising long-term political plans that suggest he does not believe he will face future legal trouble despite the C.I.A. leak investigation in which he has been involved.

On Thursday night, Mr. Rove made his first major public appearance in several weeks, speaking at the Federalist Society in Washington. The remarks on judicial restraint were hardly newsworthy in themselves, but his presence was. Just three weeks ago, at the height of the administration's worst troubles over the Supreme Court and as anxiety in the leak inquiry consumed the White House, Mr. Rove canceled a speech for the Republican candidate for governor in Virginia.

Since then, Mr. Rove has remained in legal limbo, neither cleared nor charged. But the frenzy surrounding his role has subsided since the Oct. 28 indictment of I. Lewis Libby Jr., and associates say there has been an elevation of Mr. Rove's persona inside and outside the West Wing - a shift that has the added benefit of assuring conservatives that the White House is trying to regain its footing after a spate of recent disasters....

***

White House officials have insisted that the legal complications did not subtract from Mr. Rove's ability to do his job in recent weeks - disputing, among other things, that the botched response to Hurricane Katrina and the Harriet E. Miers nomination resulted from the political director's distractions. Nonetheless, Republican officials are now relieved to be able to demonstrate how engaged Mr. Rove is. Several have gone so far as to suggest that Mr. Rove's recovery is a harbinger of brighter days for the administration....

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/11/politics/11rove.html?oref=login

[wordpix2]

24. methinks this is spin from WH: Rove "rebounding" and "elevation of

Mr. Rove's persona," yada, yada, bs, spin, spin. Nothing's wrong, investigation is off, (yet Fitz is hunting for more info on Rove), the WH is on message, Iraq is going well, Katrina response was great, Dem wins are wins for Repugs---it is all spin.

[SomewhereOutThere424]

26. They also predicted...

That bush's ratings would start going up. They haven't.

[goforit]

55. LOL!!!!! So true.

[Halliburton]

27. Read this!

http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2005/1112nj_waas.htm

This must be why they're trying to spin this. They know it might be a while before Fitz can charge him, so why not start spinning away by saying that the fact that Fitz is taking so long must mean Rove's in the clear.

[CoffeeCat]

30. Thank you for that excellent article. Everyone should read it...

That article laid out the tangled Web very well.

Also, regarding Rove:

He says that Russert told him about Plame. Russert calls bullshit.

Cooper says that Rove told him about Plame. Rove didn't tell Fitzgerald about his conversations with Cooper. Cooper did. Then--after the fact--Rove says that he FORGOT to tell Fitzgerald about his conversations with Cooper--because it slipped his mind.

Also--Rove is insinuating that Robert Novak told him a lot of info on Plame and gave him insight he didn't have on Plame. It hasn't been revealed what Novak has said. There's a tight lid on that. I bet you anything that Novak called BS on Rove--the same way that Russert and Cooper have.

Also--did you catch the part of the article where it says that Rove believes that he may have been misled by Libby? Rove told Fitzgerald that Libby told him that Libby learned of Plame from journalists--but Rove is saying that this might have been false, and Rove is saying that Libby lied to him. Gee, Rove is backstabbing Libby. How eager will Libby be to fall on the sword for Karl--if Karl is making Libby look even more guilty? There's a good chance Libby might roll over on Karl--especially when he sees that he's going to do some serious prison time if he doesn't.

There is a GREAT DEAL of TESTIMONY against Rove.

This article clearly points that out.

Thanks again for this informative article.

[Halliburton]

39. here's another interesting tidbit from the article

<snip>
Even if no plea bargain occurs, a federal grand jury could compel Libby to testify about others under a grant of immunity. If he still refused to testify, Libby could then be jailed for civil contempt, or charged anew with criminal contempt or obstruction of justice.
<snip>

fitzgerald doesn't have to negotiate a deal with scooter to get his testimony. if Scooter refuses to testify he could end up like Judy. How ironic would that be.

[Garbo 2004]

46. It was Libby not Rove that claimed that Russert told him about Plame.

It's in Libby's indictment.

Obviously Fitz is trying to play people off oneanother. And we don't know what Ari Fleischer said, but from the indictment it would appear that Ari's cooperated with Fitz. Also Novak. And whoever else may have provided info to Fitz.

I suspect Rove isn't yet entirely off the hook despite all the evident spin in the media to suggest that's the case.

[Orsino]

32. Because Fitz gets it right and doesn't leak...

...the bad guys get to spin the story, unmolested by fact, for a good long while. If indictments are coming, they'll come after much of the public is already convinced Fitz has nothing.

[Joe Chi Minh]

43. All the sweeter when the hammer drops.

[Orsino]

45. The hammer doesn't appear to be about to drop on Cheney or Bush...

...more's the pity. All indictments are likely to do is tar them, and that effect will be lessened, unfortunately, because Fitz seems to be doing it right.

But them's the breaks.

[Joe Chi Minh]

47. We'll see. Your kindred spirits seem to have got most of

what's happened up to now, quite wrong. No indictments, indeed...

[Corgigal]

28. said the spider

to the fly.

[Wordie]

31. Here is National Journal article with exact opposite conclusion:

http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2005/1112nj_waas.htm

<snip>
Libby Testimony Is Key To Rove Inquiry

By Murray Waas, special to National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Saturday, Nov. 12, 2005

Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald delayed a decision on whether to seek criminal charges against Karl Rove in large part because he wants to determine whether Lewis (Scooter) Libby, the former chief of staff to Vice President Cheney, can provide information on Rove's role in the CIA leak case, according to attorneys involved in the investigation.

Even if Fitzgerald concludes in the near future that he does not have sufficient evidence to charge Rove, the special prosecutor would not rule out bringing charges at a later date and would not finish his inquiry on Rove until he hears whatever information Libby might provide -- either incriminating or exculpatory -- on Rove's role, the sources said.

On the last day of its two-year term, the federal grand jury in the leak case indicted Libby on five counts of making false statements, perjury, and obstruction of justice as part of an alleged effort to conceal his own role, and perhaps that of other Bush administration officials, in publicly disclosing the identity of CIA officer Valerie Plame.

Fitzgerald did not seek an indictment of Rove, opting to present any potential new evidence on the White House deputy chief of staff to a new grand jury. In recent days, Fitzgerald has reinterviewed several witnesses with knowledge of Rove's role in the Plame leak and talked with attorneys of other potential witnesses. <unsnip>

...and here is a link to a DU thread discussing the above:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5343154

[Enraged_Ape]

33. Whistling past the graveyard

I remember papers publishing this kind of bilge during the Watergate investigation. "Third-rate burglary", "Americans are more concerned about other things", etc.--as if they just say it enough times, it will really come true. It's like when a little kid tells you every single time that you see him that he's getting a real live pony for Christmas. Some kids never grow out of that.

[Eurobabe]

34. BULLSHIT!

what maroon wrote this piece? Rove's not getting away with anything, that little prick.

[Halliburton]

37. someone like kornblut

[Eurobabe]

35. KKKarl sealed his fate the day he did THIS:

The hubristic ASS!

[tanyev]

48. So close, so close.

[Wordie]

36. Better that Rove is removed CLOSER to the 2006 elections, imho. ;) n/t

[Halliburton]

38. by all indications fitz wants an airtight case on rove before charging him

and needs scooter's testimony to tie the last loose end. fitzgerald doesn't need to negotiate a deal with scooter either. he can put him in jail if he refuses to testify just like he did with judy.

[Octafish]

40. 'Wishing makes it so.'

Typical Wall Street Urinal spin.

[Joe Chi Minh]

41. "But some lawyers believe that with each passing day, the odds

of further indictments are diminishing."

A freeper can dream, can't he...?

[MellowOne]

44. wishful thinking and spin to sugar-coat n/t

[symbolman]

49. Oh yeah.. SOME Lawyers believe that..

SOME lawyers believe that Satan is Innocent too, when given the proper amount of money :)

my Film "ROVE'S WAR" has 150 minutes of TRUTH on 2 DVDs, after a year of research I've got the GOODS on these Monsters, and so does Fitz.. he's going for the airtight case, and he may take years - but Rove might as well invest in Kevlar Depends for a good decade or so..

There's too much of a trail for them to get out of it so they go straight for the bald faced LIE..

ANd HADLEY of all people is now out lying about all this - might as well trot out Cheney, maybe he'll be next, Hadley is about as nasty to look at as Cheney.. fearless fly glasses, all the charisma of a child molester, skin like a shaved mole..

I've got the WHOLE STORY, the Definitive Chronology of PlameGate on "Rove's War" at http://www.takebackthemedia.com - watch the 12 minute trailer and listen to my cover of the a great song, "Secret Agent Plame" (Randi Rhodes sang the LYRICS to my cover TWICE on Air America Radio a few weeks ago :) ) ..

GOt people getting this 2 DVD set to members of Congress as a TOOL!

Adopt a Congressman today :)

[stlsaxman]

50. "Recommended by dentists for their patients who chew gum"

"Four out of five doctors recommend... "

"Some lawyers believe that..."

"...the investigation could end with no one else being charged, they say."

spin spin spin spin...

Too bad there are stupid people who'll believe that shit.

Was this Paul Gigot?

[MADem]

51. ONLINE WSJ=printed equivalent of Faux on steroids!

They retain JOHN FUND, who knocked up his ex-girlfriend's teenaged daughter, and then had her get an abortion, while maintaining a prolife stance! And then, he slapped her around! What a prince of a guy!

http://www.americanpolitics.com/20020116Editors.html

[symbolman]

52. Yeah Bartcop used to run a pic of that guy

and under it it said,"Hit, I'm John Fund - I like to knock up teenagers and BEAT women!"

I was hilarious, unless you actually KNEW him of course..

I still don't see how these scumbags all seem to find each other and clump into one group and screw all of us decent folks :)

I KNOW, how about us DECENT FOLKS bring back the Guillotine! Now THAT would be PAY PER VIEW TV *I* could get behind..

[MADem]

53. For guys like that, just the mini-guillotine!!! n/t

[symbolman]

57. LOL

bwahahaha!

[glitch]

56. Rope a dope.

gotta big fat one on the line.

[Hyernel]

58. That pudgy fuck just won't go down!

C'mon Fitz! If you had enough to indict Libby, you already have enough to indict Rove.

Take him out!