GOP senator hits Bush for attacking war critics; Hints Congress endorsing

[RamboLiberal]

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Hagel_blasts_Bush_for_attacking_war_1115.html

Republican Senator Chuck Hagel (R-NE), a Vietnam veteran and critic of Bush policy on Iraq, excoriated the Administration Tuesday in a speech to Council on Foreign Relations Tuesday, RAW STORY has learned.

Hagel blasted the Administration for going after Iraq war critics and turning the war into a political cause.

"The Iraq war should not be debated in the United States on a partisan political platform," the Nebraska senator remarked. "This debases our country, trivializes the seriousness of war and cheapens the service and sacrifices of our men and women in uniform. War is not a Republican or Democrat issue. The casualties of war are from both parties. The Bush Administration must understand that each American has a right to question our policies in Iraq and should not be demonized for disagreeing with them. Suggesting that to challenge or criticize policy is undermining and hurting our troops is not democracy nor what this country has stood for, for over 200 years. The Democrats have an obligation to challenge in a serious and responsible manner, offering solutions and alternatives to the Administration’s policies."

He also suggested the members of Congress who failed to question the war could be responsible for another Vietnam.

"Vietnam was a national tragedy partly because Members of Congress failed their country, remained silent and lacked the courage to challenge the Administrations in power until it was too late," he added. "Some of us who went through that nightmare have an obligation to the 58,000 Americans who died in Vietnam to not let that happen again. To question your government is not unpatriotic – to not question your government is unpatriotic. America owes its men and women in uniform a policy worthy of their sacrifices."

Hagel's full speech.

http://hagel.senate.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=219401&Month=11&Year=2005

[Rosco T.]

1. Attention all Rats... Attention all Rats...

.. your ship is sinking.

[leftchick]

5. LOL!

:rofl:

[Poet Lariat]

37. A sinking ship of fools

...telling us to be optimistic because "the ship is half full."

:beer::spray::beer::spray::beer::spray::beer::spray::beer:

[vogonity]

83. I haven't posted song lyrics before but...

The bottles stand as empty, as they were filled before.
Time there was and plenty, but from that cup no more.
Though I could not caution all, I still might warn a few:
Don’t lend your hand to raise no flag atop no ship of fools.

Excerpted from "Ship Of Fools" by Robert Hunter

Seems appropriate.

[Poet Lariat]

85. "Don’t lend your hand to raise no flag atop no ship of fools."

I like it! Thanks vogonity.:patriot:

[bertha katzenengel]

78. If you look real closely, you can see the rats!

*scurry* *scurry* *scurry* *scurry*

[cantstandbush]

2. I'm sending copies to Rush and FOX, join me.

The public needs to hear or read this too.

[wicket]

9. Will do!

:kick:

[prescole]

3. About 2070 US lives too late

And 30,000+ Iraqi lives too late.

Great bumpersticker: How many lives per gallon does your car get?

[spancks]

4. If I had a car...

...I'd put that sticker on it.

Great idea.
:applause:

[Coventina]

62. the list of losses is staggering

Human life
Artifacts looted & destroyed
Environment poisoned
The reputation of the United States
Resources squandered
A huge LOSS in the fight against extremism

The list just goes on and on......

[jazzjunkysue]

73. Don't forget borrowing more $$ than the last 41 presidents combined

and a historic deficit.

[SillyGoose]

6. Wow! This guy nailed it!

The Bush Administration must understand that each American has a right to question our policies in Iraq and should not be demonized for disagreeing with them. Suggesting that to challenge or criticize policy is undermining and hurting our troops is not democracy nor what this country has stood for, for over 200 years.

...To question your government is not unpatriotic – to not question your government is unpatriotic. America owes its men and women in uniform a policy worthy of their sacrifices."

I was just talking to a friend earlier today about Bush's Veteran's Day speech and we both agreed that speech had large blowback potential. Glad to see not all those on the right are swallowing the BS.

[SoFlaJet]

7. The first part

pretty much echoes John Kerry's speech from yesterday-I just watched it on Can-o-fun-if you haven't seen it yet do yourselves a favor.He called him the "Campaigner In Chief"

[Frustratedlady]

8. I, for one, will send him an email...

and thank him for speaking out. It gives me hope our country isn't going down with this administration.

[deacon2]

35. I'll join you in that.

We must encourage the truth wherever and whenever it is told now. Each time the truth comes out, we are a little closer to regaining our country.

Sorry if that sounds Pollyannish, but in the darkness of even a few months back could you have dreamed of this turn around? It is stunning and must be encouraged to grow.

[deacon2]

36. I'll join you in that.

We must encourage the truth wherever and whenever it is told now. Each time the truth comes out, we are a little closer to regaining our country.

Sorry if that sounds Pollyannish, but in the darkness of even a few months back could you have dreamed of this turn around? It is stunning and must be encouraged to grow.

[Lochloosa]

48. Link to Contact Senator Hagel.....Everyone?

http://hagel.senate.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=Contact.Home

[tvfipp]

54. Emailed - done!

Your suggestion must be working, his site was really slow - lots of traffic.

[raccoon]

51. Me too--let's encourage this.

Rosco T.'s message is correct (thanks for the laugh). But I'm still glad to see other Republicans deserting Bush.

[RamboLiberal]

76. I sent him an email thanking him for saying this

eom

[oxbow]

80. done and done

Hagel joins the ranks of Ben Franklin, Winston Churchill and other greats who understood that dissent is the essence of a healthy democracy

[wordpix2]

10. Joe Biden on MSNBC right now--RIPPING UP BushCo's Iraq "policy" with no

end in sight. Talking about Senate vote today. Very bright man!

[texpatriot2004]

11. Thank you Sen. Hagel. n.t

[Imagevision]

55. One by one repugs are sensing the timeframe to 06 elections

with each passing day of Bush negative by-lines. Will Bush go out of his way to endorse the Republicans seeking re-election -- Will the Republicans want him to??

[rateyes]

12. What happened to him?...

sounds like a liberal to me. Thanks Mr. Hagel. I'll give credit where it's due, and on this occasion, it's due.

[xultar]

17. Ahh, now these are the people we need to look out for and nurture

there are good republicans, that is what I've been trying to say but we need to nurture them!

[rateyes]

23. Love to get them to switch. nt

[janx]

40. There are so few of them remaining...

I hope we can count on those who do remain.

[JoFerret]

68. Voting Machine Man

.

[PATRICK]

69. Mr. E S & S?

He holds one of the keys to the e-vote fraud scam. He is making his move to become President. Totally cynical unless he wants to own up to his own betrayal of America that got him his career and all this mess.

Then he can go to Leavenworth not the White Office.

[rateyes]

72. My apologies....

like what he said to Bush...forgot about his rigging elections...no more credit.

[FlashHarry]

74. He's been a BushCo critic from the beginning.

Nothing new here. Though well said.

[Cha]

13. Wonder how much bush and cheney/

rove are SPUTTERING AND FUMING OVER THIS?

[wordpix2]

16. they are realizing their good friends and employees at BushCo don't want

to work there anymore b/c they don't like the heat. They're getting out of the kitchen.

[keopeli]

14. This needed to be said way back in late 02 when something could have been

done to stop the insanity. Instead, Congress was complicit. I was marching in the streets, writing many letters, telling everyone I knew that it looked as if the war was a fait accompli, even though no inspectors had found WMDs.

I'm glad hagel is saying this now. But, Hagel is responsible for this mess like his colleagues. He himself is only raising the issue when it's convenient for him to do so.

nevertheless, kudos for catching up to reality. Now, Senator, please don't fall behind again.

[karynnj]

59. I think the big protests were mainly in 03

My husband and my daughters and I went to the DC one in Jan 03 and the NYC one in Feb 03. There had been earlier protests but they were smaller. I don't know what Hagel's view was in 03 - between the IWR and Narch 03, the inspections found nothing - I don't know if he spoke up then (several Senators did speak out in Jan and Feb)

Read Kerry's speech from Monday - he very clearly lays out 2 sets of lies, one (what the danger was) and two (what he would do with the authority). In retrospect, the Senators shouldn't have trusted Bush, but as President he could have sent the troops (already massed in the Persian Gulf) in, which was his intent until he was pushed to go to Congress and the UN.

In the presidential campaign, Kerry ofen cited Hagel and Lugar as having problems with Bush's actions in Iraq.

[indepat]

15. Senator, it is happening again

[wordpix2]

18. john thune (r-SD) on Armed ServicesComm just on Hardball. He voted w/ Dems

to send BushCo a message---report to Congress and get Iraqis to do heavy lifting so we can get out of Iraq.

Supporting Bush but cracking...he,he

[wordpix2]

22. Hegel just on Hardball. Sounded like a DU'er, talking about black sites &

how they are against American principles. Dana Priest who broke the story says prisoners are taken to non-democratic countries where they have no rights or laws to protect them. WTF? Liar BushCo is always talking about spreading democracy but they sure like to use non-democratic nations to export torture at the hands of Amerikans.

[David Zephyr]

19. Senator John McCain, Behold the Man You Might Have Been: Chuck Hagel

Senator Hagel deserves great respect today from all those who truly love freedom and not just the sound of the words.

John McCain, you just lost the independents in the New Hampshire Primary that once stood with you. Senator Chuck Hagel will now win the New Hampshire Primary in 2008. Take this to the bank!

[fbahrami]

20. yeah .... HILLARY

"He also suggested the members of Congress who failed to question the war could be responsible for another Vietnam."

[indie_voter]

21. Vietnam is to LBJ as Iraq is to Bush

Iraq is so much worse than Vietnam.

We didn't create generations of suicide bombers in Vietnam, we have in Iraq.

It is a far dangerous game we are playing in Iraq than any other time in our history.

MHO of course!

[mike_c]

28. I agree with you-- the death toll in Iraq is higher than the toll in...

...Vietnam three years into the conflict, and the conflict is spiraling outward very fast. This is on track to be FAR worse than Vietnam, IMO.

[apnu]

44. Great, does that mean there is a Nixon floating around here?

Because, that would really suck.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

46. No....Herr Busch is worse than Nixon ever dreamed he could be....

...Herr Busch is LBJ and Nixon rolled into one.

[BuelahWitch]

49. Don't be so rough on LBJ

He lamented that Vietnam took away from his Great Society programs. He also inherited the Vietnam war, as did Kennedy. They all thought they were fighting the Great God Communism (and no, it doesn't make it better, but you have to look at it from a perspective of the times).

The Iraq war is Bush's vanity war. It was begun on a lie. Big difference.

[Stand and Fight]

64. Bullshit.

Vietnam begun on a lie as well. Do your research before you post such nonsense.

[AnneD]

79. He (Nixon) is rested and he's ready....

and if Ca get's flooded, he just might be floating out there...He could be as useful a puppet as Bush. I'll even get out a 'Nixon's the One' tee. Boy did that slogan come back to haunt him.

[superconnected]

24. The rw will slam him and try to throw him out

then he'll come back like McCain, all pro bush regime.

But yes, cool he nailed it.

[Vinnie From Indy]

25. I'll clap for Hagel with one hand.

n/t

[lovuian]

26. Ya Iraq is heading into another Vietnam!!!

hagel is right on!!!

[saigon68]

71. Its Iraq-Nam

It doesn't have the usual (insert racial epithet here)

It has (insert racial epithet here)

[alcibiades_mystery]

27. I have always liked Chuck Hagel

And, since I don't agree with the "vote rigging" lunatics - who seem to be the only people who vehemently oppose him (on some laughable basis that he owns some stock in voting machines - as if he needs them to win in NEBRASKA!?! :rofl:) - I'm happy to see him living up to his honor again. He's an honorable Republican, and one of the few. And this speech proves it.

[OKNancy]

67. Well he beat Nelson ( DINO )in1996

so I don't know why the vote riggers think it's such a bad thing - lol

I've said it before... he will be a formidable foe if he runs in 2008 and not because of the machines garbage, but because of who he is.

[JoFerret]

70. On the voting machine lunacy

Check out the disrepancies bewteen predictions, expectations, polls, exit polls and the final outcome of his elections.

Something sure smelled.

[JanMichael]

29. Isn't Hagel the former CEO of one of those EVIL voting computer companys?

While I'll take the hit on Bush I'm sure as shit not going to fawn all over him.

IIRC he won a rather touchy come-from-behind election with his own firms machines tallying most of the votes.

:puke:

[Judi Lynn]

47. Nice work if you can get it, isn't it?

I've heard the same thing, JanMichael. He can afford to point out problems with _Bush yet he's got so much to explain about himself and his own personal voting machines which got him elected in a complete surprise victory people did not see coming (from what I've heard).

I hope a Nebraska DU'er sees your posts and adds his/her comments.

[Blaze Diem]

30. Strategy ??GOP MUST retain 2006 House & Senate majority or

Bush REALLY WILL BE IMPEACHED!!

Its that close folks.
Its better for them to begin sounding like true American loving statesmen than to give up their majority. Bush will still be President after Nov 2006, BUT his majority may be lost..then shit will certainly hit the proverbial fan.
GOP knows that.
Siding with Bush at this time will certainly NOT gain any votes for incumbents. So was just proven in the last election.
George showed up and his guy lost.

"Protect Bush by Saving Your House & Senate Seat First" I believe, is the motto being whispered throughout the hallowed halls of the neocon re-election 2006 Rovian team.

GOP has gone from "vote with Bush on EVERYTHING" to Distance yourself from Bush on EVERYTHING." Save the GOP Majority.

Just don't trust the whole sorry lot of them.

Thanks anyway
Blaze

[beltanefauve]

39. I don't trust them!

I agree with you, and I smell Presidential aspirations. No, I want a Dem prez for 2008, not a "moderate" repub. When Clinton ran, he campaigned as a moderate, and when he got in, he governed as a moderate. Bush* campaigned as a moderate, and when he got in, took a hard right turn, first day in office, no less. (Not that anyone here at DU was fooled, of course) Do not trust these Repubs under any circumstances!

[Historic NY]

31. Thank you Sen. Hagel for clarifying this...........

"Suggesting that to challenge or criticize policy is undermining and hurting our troops is not democracy nor what this country has stood for, for over 200 years"

I support the troops and want to keep them alive. No one should have to die for a lie.

[twaddler01]

32. Well done!

Me likes :D

[Habibi]

33. Heh. I went "over there" so you don't have to!

Some choice bits:

"Hagel has been a blathering idiot since the moment he first opened his f*****g mouth."

"What a jerk!"

"Chuck Hagel (R-France)!"

"What an a@@ho&e"

"F*** you Hagel"

Gosh, they must not allow honest cussin' over there.

'Scuse me while I go wash my hands . . .

[TroglodyteScholar]

84. You can judge a person's intellect by...

You can judge a person's intellect by whether they believe saying "f***" on the web is somehow better than saying "fuck." Are you a more wholesome person because you can't bring yourself to piece together the actual letters in that NASTY NASTY thought you just had?

:eyes:

[FlaGranny]

88. You CAN ?

I always thought it was the other way around. I rarely hear intellectuals use the word in social situations and in mixed company.

[BikeWriter]

34. Salute!

:patriot:

[readmylips]

38. Attention bush supporters: We got you surrounded....

You got no place to go but to jump ship. You have helped bush shame this country. You will go down in flames with the lier president of criminals. It's time for you to look at the facts and support your country instead of such a slime like bush.

[Voltaire99]

41. "War is not a Republican or Democrat issue." Heh.

In fact, it's a Republican *and* Democrat issue.

The corrupt duopoly brought us this war, and the corrupt duopoly maintains it.

[november3rd]

42. Bu$hco Going Down In Flames

Once the GOP starts bailing in the House and Senate, Bush will be a nonfunctional President with no base and no support in Congress.

[Domitan]

43. Excellent!

While I don't know enough about his overall policies, I've found Hagel to be a real maverick within his party, especially in regards to Iraq.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

45. Damn. Why didn't a Democrat make that speech?

[apnu]

50. They have, several times

The press isn't interested in what the Dems have to say unless its something stupid.

[Lorien]

52. Do we have copies of those speeches?

I know there have been a few, but I don't recall how strongly worded or direct they were.

It will be interesting to see if the MSM gives this speech any coverage.

[apnu]

53. Well that's the difference there.

the wording isn't all that strong. Democrats, today, have lost the fiery speech abilities of yesterday. Gone are the great, stirring orations of "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself"

Dems would get more press if they had a bit of fire, daring and backbone in their speech deliveries.

That is changing, slowly, with the likes of Dean and many others. And there's a lot of passion in the House, but rarely do House speeches get air play.

[il_lilac]

60. when dems get fiery

they are forced to apologize. ie Durbin

[karynnj]

61. If you think that you are not listening

Feingold, Kennedy, Durbin, Levin, and Kerry have all made "fiery speeches" in the last week.

Kerry's speech on Monday was one of the strongest, clearest indictments of Bush's leading us to war - some of the information coming from the indictments and some from DSM (that Bush never intended to not invade (though he repeatedly claimed otherwise) and that Cheney sought to derail inspections altogether.)

Kerry's speeches on Thursday were good as well. The first on his amendment to get information on the clandestine prison sites in addition to dealing with a disgusting situation talked about Congress taking back real oversight functions. The second was his Iraq plan - which (like Feingold's)seeks a quicker end to the war and brings up the issue of NO permanent bases.

Neither the House or Senate speeches get much airplay or they get a 10 sec clip that doesn't convey any information. Broadcasting more would keep them from appropriately covering Paris Hilton and Jessica Simpson.

[apnu]

63. I'm talking about differences in levels of intensity

Kerry gave a good speech, a strong speech, but by GOP standards not a 'fiery speech'

What I mean by 'fiery' I mean a speech so well crafted that it hits a cord with the people of the day. (See FDR) In a tone that has such a way that the M$M has to cover it because its so galvanizing, exciting and shocking that it will generate big ratings. The GOP excels at delivering speeches and talking points that accomplish this and that joe-sixpack can understand instantly.

The big name Dems (Kerry, Kennedy) have lost this ability. Either through marginalization (Kennedy, Edwards) or they never really had that talent (Kerry). Dems need to get that back, they need to get some 'in your face speeches and messages out there' Saying a Dem speech is 'fiery' by DU standards is like the pot calling the kettle black. Of course we, here, get riled up by Dems who show some calcium in the back, but does that resonate with 'swing voter' and 'non voter' in America?

I think this is changing with the likes of Dean and others. But I still think that today's Dems have a long way to go in speech making.

Do you get my drift now?

[Stand and Fight]

66. No, you're the one who doesn't "get the drift." n/t

[Stand and Fight]

65. Get your head out of the sand!

Have you not heard the recent speeches given in the Senate and on the floor of the House? Where the hell have you been?

Senators Kerry, Kennedy, Reid, Feingold, Boxer... Or have you just not been paying attention?

[apnu]

86. I work and don't have time to watch C-Span all day...

... like many around here apparently do. What I do see is the M$M who shape the opinions of the voters out there and they aren't running any speeches by any Dems. C-Span doesn't count, general people don't watch C-Span, just the political junkies like DU and Freeperville do.

If the Dems want more airplay (and I'm not convinced that they do) then they need to change their rhetoric so that its attractive to the M$M for airplay. If they can do that, then the Dems will walk to victory in 06, 08 and beyond.

Kerry (or any of the others you listed) can deliver 100 speeches a day, if none of them show up on the nightly news, then he hasn't accomplished a damn thing. My head isn't in the sand, people who support the Democrat's status quo have their heads in the sand.

[Kolesar]

56. But he's still happy Max Cleland got knocked out

And those tax cuts for the millionaires are sweeeet!

[UrbScotty]

57. Looks like he won't get the '08 nomination. (nt)

[PassingFair]

58. Hello!

We better get out in front of this guy...

[rmgustaf]

75. Somebody's running for Prez in '08, huh? n/t

[nickgutierrez]

77. "Turning" the war into a political cause?

This war was a political cause since before it was started.

This war was a weapon in the 2002 midterm elections. This war was a weapon in the 2004 Presidential election. This war has never been anything but a political cause, and for Hegel to claim that it's just now becoming one isn't just dishonest, it's absurd.

[benburch]

81. BZZZT! We Disrupt This Thread For An Important Announcement!

[Nothing Without Hope]

82. Sounds like he's revving up the election engines - Bush is toxic so he

is pretending that he himself is blameless. Similar to McCain's strategy, but McCain is more cunning with it.

The rats are leaving the ship...

[truthisfreedom]

87. jeeperz! someone's not drinking his kool-aid!

wow, what an upstart. don't fly in any small planes, dude!