Eight people are shot at a shopping mall in downtown Tacoma

[IndianaGreen]

Eight people are shot at a shopping mall in downtown Tacoma, Washington, a fire official says, adding shooter is still at large.

Now breaking on CNN

[Warren Stupidity]

1. Well this will be a good distraction from an administration in

full self-destruct mode.

[Wise Doubter]

33. Hey....

If this guy becomes invisible, you may be on to something.

I wouldn`t put it past `em ! x(

[alarcojon]

2. Down to "at least five shot"

WTF?

[Evergreen Emerald]

3. my daughter and I were just there

Yikes it is getting ugly in Tacoma.

[bahrbearian]

4. I work in most the malls in the Puget Sound area,, Sea-Tac Mall

is usually deemed the most dangerous, but then again Tacoma is not far behind.

[Evergreen Emerald]

9. I did not realize Sea-Tac Mall was considered more dangerous

I thought Tacoma Mall was. I remember when they started posting guards at Tacoma Mall. I guess when you think about it Federal Way has lots of apartments and is more of a transient area.

[progressivebydesign]

13. Tacoma Mall is not dangerous (except for today).

Actually Southcenter Mall is quite frightening, and SeaTac. Tacoma has this reputation that is not earned, for being some scary awful place. It's got some issues, but it's a lovely place. The mall is safe enough that my stepdaughter and her friends spend the afternoon shopping there without a problem. And I go there as well.

[bahrbearian]

23. I don't think any of the areas malls are dangerous,, It's just the

talk from people that work there.

[Megahurtz]

65. Sea-Tac can be a pretty rough area. n/t

[thefool_wa]

12. That's why I shop on the peninsula..

Bremerton street gangs are harmless (relatively), more like the "poser mobile" of northwest hoodlums :)

(we have to make light of things or the darkness will consume us - I'm just glad my Mom is OK)

[progressivebydesign]

16. I live on the Peninsula as well, and have no huge fear of Tacoma.

parts of Tacoma and Bremerton frighten me a bit, tho. I do wonder if this shooting is gang related, a general sniper type, or a domestic dispute gone public.

[u4ic]

19. Welcome to DU, thefool_wa!

:hi:

[bahrbearian]

21. LOL" Poser Moblies" Kitsap mall is quite harmless.

[lumberjack_jeff]

43. Welcome to DU!

I live about a half-hour west of Olympia so I shop on the peninsula too.

But maybe this is another good reason to not shop?

[IndianaGreen]

6. My brother lives in Tacoma. Here is KING Seattle story.

Here is Channel 5 in Seattle:

Shots fired in Tacoma Mall

01:34 PM PST on Sunday, November 20, 2005
KING5.com

TACOMA - The Tacoma Mall was locked down Sunday after a report of shots fired, according to police.

At least one person appeared to have been injured in the incident.

There were no details immediately available, but numerous callers into KING 5 described the scene.

Shopper Dick Waldo described a person running by and shooting as he ran.

“An individual had just come running through a cross section and I heard some fire so I just told everybody to drop,” Waldo said, “And then the individual started running toward the other end of the mall.”

“Chaos just happened,” Waldo said as the shots were being fired.

Waldo said he thought at least one person was hit and within an hour, police could be seen rushing a person out of the mall on a stretcher toward a waiting paramedic unit.

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_112005WABtacomamallJK.15720564.html

[alarcojon]

5. Story up

(CNN) -- At least five people have been wounded in a shooting at a shopping mall near downtown Tacoma, Washington, fire officials said.

"At this time, the situation is still evolving," said Jon Lendosky, deputy chief of the Tacoma Fire Department. "We're still right in the middle of it."

Lendosky said five people had been sent to hospitals. But another fire official, Lt. David Elmer, said earlier that eight people had been reported hurt.

Because the shooter remained at large, "There are still some we can't get to," Elmer said.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/20/mall.shooting/index.html

[Peace Patriot]

7. Oh my God, how awful! My heart goes out to the victims and their...

...families, to the first responders and to the perps themselves for whatever insanity they are suffering. When will this culture of death be transformed? I was very close to one of the victims of the Texas Tower sniper in 1966. That's when it started--as the Vietnam war (over 2 million slaughtered by the end of it) was undergoing major escalation--this extreme alienation and "senseless" mass violence at home. I suffered for some twenty years from the traumatic loss of this close friend, before I could even acknowledge what it had done to me. Nobody who does this sort of thing can be sane. Something in them has "snapped"--disconnecting them from their humanity. At that time, 1966, it was utterly shocking. Nothing like that had ever happened before in the U.S.--someone just shooting up masses of innocent people for no personal gain and with no fathomable motive. It is insane and suicidal. I pray that the good people in our society--and we ARE the majority--can change this country so substantively that no one ever goes without psychological help who needs it, no one goes without friendship and support, and no one "falls beneath the cracks" and becomes so alienated that he or she lashes out compulsively and coldly at innocent others. I pray also that we can bar easy access to guns, if not ban them altogether as the epitome of our society's sickness. We MUST change ourselves and our social context. We must!

God help us all!

[thefool_wa]

8. The world is falling apart

My mom works in one of the stores in this mall. I still can't get ahold of her but my dad says he's spoken to her and she's ok.

What is this world coming to. Apparently the suspect 1) was running through the mall firing at random and 2) IS STILL AT LARGE! One witness said that as many as 18 shots may have been fired.

Things are bad enough these days without we as individuals falling apart. The world may suck, but there is no reason to make it worse. I hope they catch that guy.

[laruemtt]

14. welcome to DU, thefool_wa

glad your ma's okay too.

[Jersey Ginny]

39. I hope your mom is OK. It's very scary

But in general the world/our country is pretty safe-at least I believe that and crime statistics show that to be true. I just heard they caught the guy which is great.

[IndianaGreen]

10. Tacoma Fire Department is reporting 8 injuries

The Tacoma Mall is locked down after a report of shots fired, according to police. Five people injured have been transported to the hospital and a total of eight were injured according to the Tacoma Fire Department.

http://www.king5.com/w/

[progressivebydesign]

11. We're 8 miles away from the mall.

(it's not downtown Tacoma, btw).

It's a regular destination for so many families around here. Our daughter and her friends shop their often. WE've sense no danger there... at all. No more than any other mall in a city.

We're stressing because so many of our friend shop there. I hope everyone is okay. I really love Tacoma, and i know this will be a terrible blight on the city.

[SW FL Dem]

27. I lived in Tacoma in 1984-85

I can't believe this is happening there. It was a pretty nice place to live.

[ThePopulist]

15. Oh swell, another nut job bubble finally makes it way to the surface....

We get about 1 of these every 5 months. I hope everybody involved is okay and the situation is taken under control quickly and expediently.

[Benhurst]

17. If one looks at the Big Picture, it is obvious that such outbreaks

are far less expensive in the long run than a good national health plan with psychiatric benefits.

[IndianaGreen]

18. Update: Eight injured in Tacoma Mall shooting

Eight injured in Tacoma Mall shooting


02:06 PM PST on Sunday, November 20, 2005
KING5.com

TACOMA - The Tacoma Mall is locked down after a report of shots fired, according to police.

The gunman is still believed to be inside, according to fire official John Landoski.

Five people have been transported to the hospital and a total of eight were injured according to the Tacoma Fire Department.

At the same time, police have also ushered people away from the area because of a possible suspicious package.

Numerous callers into KING 5 described the scene.

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_112005WABtacomamallJK.15720564.html

[Mz Pip]

20. I can only hope

that no one was seriously injured and that they catch the shooter before he does anymore damage.

I wonder what motivates people to do this sort of thing. Going on a shooting spree, just randomly targetting innocent people is just creepy. The irrational mind sure can conjure up some scary shit.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[progressivebydesign]

22. Monitoring the situation as we have friends that may be in it.

So far, looks like a random shooter with an AK-47 type gun, simply pulled out the gun and began firing on strangers. One is in critical condition, 2 stable, no word on the rest. There is word that more may be coming. Shooter is holed up in a Sam Goody's, had a child hostage for a while, SWAT Team is there. Two stuck inside injured.

We're absolutely heartbroken by this. We go to the mall all the time. This does not appear to be any type of gang violence, but rather a crazed shooter

OMG... a caller just said that the gunman let the employees and staff in Sam Goody call their homes to tell their families that they love them... and a family member just called to say their loved ones are in there. One hostage is an employee that just returned from Iraq and is in there, called his wife and mother to say he loved them and is being held hostage. This is horrible.

[suffragette]

31. I hope this can be resolved and the people will be safe

Big hug to you :hug:

[izzie]

24. You people are all scary.

I had a store in a very large Mall for years so I just stay away from Malls as they are boring but un-safe? Now the parking lots late at night are to be watched but that is any place late at night for a women and always has been. Yes even in the 'good old safe days' of some age that never was.

[maxsolomon]

25. i like these stores so much i'm going to bust a cap in here!

to paraphrase chris rock.

anyone care to make any predictions concerning the shooter?

a. crazy
b. young male

[BJW]

26. FreeperWorld--Interesting Contrast Here

Here is a link to the thread at FR on this same topic.

It's pretty typical freep stuff. What a stark contrast between this freep thread and the DU thread. The DU thread is, as usual, much more focused on the specific facts.

This freep thread has substantially more activity than any other recent thread, except for one on Cindy Sheehan, which is a close second. Also, the thread includes a fair amount of bigoted, racist remarks (not unusual) with repeated speculation that it's terrorists or gang-bangers, and includes complaints about how the PC media is refusing to report the race of the shooter. And there are are posts directly relating the shootings to gun control laws, and expressing contempt for blue-state Wash Dems, etc. and the "fixed" governor's race baloney.

To top it all off, there are some posters claiming to be from Wash. state relating vague, and factually incorrect info about other shootings in Washington involving police officers.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1525710/posts

[bbernardini]

28. How long until the TV coverage gets a "baba-booey" caller?

Perhaps I'm tempting fate here, but the way I figure it, it's only a matter of time before some ignorant fuckhead tries to grab his or her few seconds of glory on the Howard Stern show by calling the TV station, claiming to have been at the mall, and then yelling "baba-booey".

[Binka]

29. Bush World Has Folks Fucking Cracking Up

Surprised? Crazy making at the top has a way of trickling down. Fuckers. Bastards. They are destroying this country.

[flamingyouth]

30. Scary

I hope the injured people are going to be okay. :scared:

[suffragette]

32. NWCN says suspect in custody and all 3 hostages are safe

http://www.nwcn.com/topstories/stories/NW_112005WABtacomamallJK.15720564.html

edited for typo and to add update on hostages

[IndianaGreen]

34. CNN confirms the suspect is in custody

The suspect in shootings that wounded six at a Tacoma, Washington, mall is in custody after hostage negotiations, police say.

[Straight Shooter]

37. Thank heaven for good news, with the hostages safe and shooter in custody.

And I am also quite grateful that this is not the shopping weekend after Thanksgiving or it might have been much worse. Think of someone mentally crazed and how holidays tend to exacerbate problems, especially if someone feels isolated and alienated from society.

[Tomee450]

48. My heart goes

out to those who were injured. I'm glad the shooter was caught and very relieved that he isn't black. Rush, O'Riley and the other haters would have had a good time castigating black people. The shooter may be mentally ill and in need of treatment.

[meganmonkey]

35. Well, that's good news.

What a horrible situation :(

[suffragette]

36. Yes, it is terrible

I hope the people who have been hospitalized will all be ok.

[oregonindy]

38. sea tac mall isnt that bad wierd....its the tacoma mall that should be

cleared out by the marines.

[progressivebydesign]

40. I shop at the Tacoma Mall sometimes. I like it.. people are friendly.

the stores are nice. Tacoma is a really cool place. People are nice and down to earth. That mall is not a scary place at all. this was the work of a deranged man, not indicative of the safety of the mall. I hope all the victims will be okay, but the emotional scars will be long lasting for the hundreds in there. That jerk had to do this while Santa was there with 200 kids nearby..

[leesa]

41. America wants people heavily armed...what's the problem?

[Danmel]

42. The gunman is in custody

according to CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/20/mall.shooting/index.html

[shanti]

44. is he a soldier?

ft. lewis is very close by.

[jody]

45. Why would you ask "is he a soldier?" n/t

[mitchum]

50. John Mohammed, Charles Whitman, James Huberty, R Gene Simmons...

Howard Unruh, Patrick Sherill...
Okay, maybe the poster should have asked "is he a former soldier?"

[jody]

55. What does being a soldier or former soldier have to do with the incident?

What about a member of a religious group or union member or a particular ethnic/racial group?

[mitchum]

59. Because an incredibly high percentage of adult mass or spree killers...

have a military background. You can check the data yourself.
This is not an attempt to smear the armed forces, rather it calls into question the paucity of services provided for veterans. And that is a shame.

[jody]

60. Please provide a source for your assertion " high percentage of adult mass

or spree killers have a military background."

[mitchum]

66. Sure...as soon as you pick up my laundry for me...

please. I don't do anyone else's errands without a kindness in return.
You can find this out by checking readily available data.
I don't know why this seems to trouble you so much.

[jody]

68. The problem is the statement is not true. n/t

[mitchum]

69. Well, you just keep on believing that...

and have a Happy Thanksgiving

[jody]

72. I will and have a Happy Thanksgiving also. n/t

[newswolf56]

46. Those who describe Tacoma as a "lovely place" are either in denial....

or don't know what they are talking about. Tacoma is statistically one of the most dangerous smaller cities in America and it is surely the most dangerous place I have ever lived, which includes the Lower East Side of Manhattan -- Alphabet City, Avenue B between 3rd and 4th Streets -- my address during the mid-1960s, when Alphabet City was the second most deadly dangerous neighborhood in all the Five Burroughs. But Tacoma is the ONLY place I have ever lived where, if you are elderly (and therefore look like an easy mark), you become potential prey the minute you step out onto the sidewalk -- not just in the Hilltop or McKinley ghettos, but even in the "nice" parts of town.

And mine is the voice of infinitely bitter experience: never even once hassled by criminals in New York -- not even when I was on crutches for two months -- here in Tacoma I was forced to flee from street-criminal assaults (or defy the assailants into backing down) FIVE TIMES in the first two months after I moved here last year. Now I do as all Tacoma elderly do: I cower in my apartment, going outside only when absolutely necessary, avoiding entirely the beautiful (but gang-banger-ruled) park directly across the street from my building. I walk for exercise only on the indoor track at a protected local athletic facility to which access is granted by my supplemental Medicare insurance. In short, the criminals and fear of crime has made me (and everyone like me) a prisoner. It is an absolutely wretched, utterly miserable life.

The problem is twofold: gang-bangers made mobile by drug-dealing and property crimes (precisely the sort of people who boiled out of a nearly new SUV to beat an elderly man to death last winter); and the worst law enforcement I have ever seen anywhere. The police are shackled by a policy of politically correct tolerance -- required by the politicians to ignore street crime until the gang-bangers actually kill someone, which happens about once a year. Then there is a brief crackdown: a roust of the savage teens who rule the parks and prowl the streets -- a police charade that soon deteriorates into vote-seeking harassment of homeless people and next, as quickly as possible, defaults back to criminal normalcy.

Tacoma was not always like this. I lived here in the late 1970s and early 1980s, and because of its social consciousness and political awareness -- a thousand times more progressive and tolerant than Seattle and without so much as a trace of Seattle's infamously malevolent hostility to newcomers -- Tacoma quickly became my favorite city in all of Washington state. But now in the election a couple of weeks back, Tacoma voters defeated by 2 to 1 a low-income housing proposal that would have cost the average taxpayer only $34 per year but would have created about 800 units of affordable housing -- accommodations that would have guaranteed secure shelter to at least 3000 families, including all the city's homeless. By every indication, the defeat of this measure was merely yet another expression of white America's malicious racism: New Orleans in miniature.

As to today's Tacoma Mall shooting, in all probability it was gang related, at the very least a gangsta' wanna-be trying to make a reputation: 99:1 odds that's what happened.

Also 99:1 odds The News Tribune will downplay the story, deliberately under-reporting it (especially by the suppression of significant facts) to avoid yet another blemish to Tacoma's reputation -- a reputation already indelibly scarred by David Brame, the internationally notorious police chief who murdered his wife and then killed himself, a police chief hired by favoritism and thereafter methodically protected from charges of rape and domestic violence, kept in office by a corrupt cronyism that is legendary throughout the Pacific Northwest until at last he ran fatally amok.

As to why I live in Tacoma today -- which because of its dangerous streets is the most oppressive and depressing place I have ever lived -- the answer is that economically I have absolutely no choice. When I was forced out of my longtime country home last year, Tacoma was the only place affordable, and now because of economics I am trapped here until death. Frankly, had I known my 30-year odyssey of rural living would end in Tacoma, I would never have left Manhattan.

[progressivebydesign]

47. I love Tacoma and I'm not in denial.

I live nearby, I apparently don't live in the neighborhood YOU do, if you're claiming to be a victim of crime constantly, then I have to wonder where you're hanging out. I have acquaintances and neighbors who are Tacoma cops and they are good people. I know tons of people who live in Tacoma and love it. I am there daily and have not had one incident. Not one.

The brame shooting happened in Gig Harbor, not Tacoma. The shooting today had NOTHING to do with gangs, it looked actually like a clean cut guy in a shirt and tie. As far as the mall goes, and the area in general, we shop all the time there, no threat. My husband plays music until late in the night at places all over Tacoma, no problem. I go to parks, I go downtown, and no problem.

Sorry your life is so miserable.

[newswolf56]

49. Brame was the police chief of Tacoma; to obfuscate the issue by...

the coincidental detail he murdered his wife in Gig Harbor rather than Tacoma is like trying to absolve the Germans of guilt for World War II atrocities merely because so many were committed beyond the borders of the Third Reich: "these weren't German atrocities because they happened in Russia." The fact remains that Brame was not only the police chief of Tacoma, but -- all the more irrevocably damning -- his tenure as police chief was ruthlessly protected by the Tacoma political establishment long after it was known he was a rapist and a wife-beating maniac.

As to "hanging out," I don't do that anywhere anymore: I can't afford to go beyond Tacoma, and in Tacoma proper the dangers imposed by street criminals and the politically motivated failure of the cops to adequately police the streets -- the fault of the same politicians who inflicted David Brame on us -- makes it absolutely unsafe for an elderly person (of any race) to be out any time anywhere in Tacoma. Indeed most of the encounters with the street savages who drove me out of Wright Park (and terrified me out of walking anywhere in my neighborhood) occurred in broad daylight; one such incident took place in the very courtyard of the apartment complex in which I live: not in a slum, but in a rather (superficially) pleasant, extremely well-kept-up middle class neighborhood.

But -- given the mobility of the criminals -- neighborhood is not any protection at all. The most frightening of the incidents that have made me a virtual prisoner occurred one evening in the distinctly upscale North End, when a gang of punks cruising in a new SUV attacked me -- apparently intending to rob me -- while I was walking toward my parked car. I ran and hid; the gang cruised the area for a while and then went away, after which I went very shakily home. Since the elderly man I mentioned in my other post above was beaten to death only six hours later, these may well have been the same assailants, who admitted they had been prowling Tacoma since well before midnight, strung out on drugs, thirsty for blood and hungry for an apparently easy victim. As I said: if you are elderly and live in Tacoma, you are prey.

As to the identity of the Mall shooter, his race (as reported by mass media) means nothing: in Tacoma, "gang-banger" is not a racial euphemism -- Tacoma's gangs are uniquely interracial. Indeed, fueled by the meth epidemic, Tacoma's street-criminals are often Caucasians -- just like two of the approximately dozen youths who beat a man to death in Wright Park three years ago merely because the gang thought he was gay.

And while the Tacoma Mall shooter's reported white-shirt-and-tie attire suggests I was apparently wrong in my prediction this crime would turn out to be gang related, I will not apologize for what I said: the fact remains that most violent crime in Tacoma is gang-related -- which you would surely know if you know the cops as you say you do.

No offense, but your attitude -- "if it isn't happening to me it isn't happening to anyone" -- is a big part of the problem: precisely one of the attitudes responsible for the 2-to-1 defeat of the low-income housing measure.

[omega minimo]

52. Are you elderly?

[newswolf56]

54. Hi, OM: she almost certainly is not elderly.

[omega minimo]

56. Astonishing clarity obscured by...?

A wise man solved the riddle of DU:

"Said before, said again ...
Hating George Bush & the RWers
does not give a person the desire or the ability
to empathize."

[opiate69]

67. FWIW..

Back about 12-14 yers ago, I used to walk from So 15th and Sprague to So 27th and Tacoma Ave every morning (usually left the apartment around 6)and then back after my shift ended at 4:30. As you can probably surmise, during the winter months, both commutes were in the dark, and my route took me directly through Hilltop (which wt the time was ground-zero for gangs). The only incidents I ever had involved dogs following me. I never had any problems with any people. Tacoma's reutation, in my opinion, is greatly undeserved..

[northzax]

51. how come you never see a headline

"eight people bludgeoned to death with a candlestick at a shopping mall"? I'm sure it's just the anti-gun media making trouble.

what a mess.

[newswolf56]

53. Not to start a quarrel, but Washington is a concealed-carry state:

in fact I have seen one study that says there is a higher per-capita percentage of concealed-carry permit holders here than in any other state. Even the police themselves will readily admit the crime rate would be much higher, especially in places like Tacoma, were it not always in the back of the criminals' minds that a potential victim might have a revolver in his pocket or an automatic in her purse.

The enthusiastic public support for concealed carry (and firearms ownership in general) is the core issue in this state's huge (and often ruinous) schism between Democratic leadership and Democratic rank-and-file: the leadership -- of whom Sen. Patty Murray is typical -- fanatically oppose ALL private ownership of firearms, while the rank-and-file overwhelmingly support unrestricted legal gun ownership and full rights for legal gun owners: the reason the closet Christofascist but outspokenly pro-gun Dino Rossi nearly beat Christine Gregoire in 2004 gubernatorial race, the reason Sen. Maria Cantwell (who is even more fanatically anti-gun than Murray) may tragically lose to a Republican in 2006.

[thefool_wa]

58. Not sure it makes a difference...

This guy had an automatic assault rifle, not a concealed pistol.

If I'm not mistaken, the weapon he had may have been illegal in and of itself.

Take away our guns and all you do is remove our ability to defend ourselves from those who will ALWAYS have guns (and I don't mean just criminals).

[superconnected]

63. I've worked with 3 people so far

who showed me guns they had taped to their backs. Each showed me their guns at work. They all gave me the "how they would never go anywhere without them", talk. I work in high tech. One job where a guy showed me this was when I was working for the City of Seattle in the IT department.

I never understood it.

And btw, all were republicans. But as we know from this site, that was just a coincidence.

[MrBenchley]

70. Let me put some real facts to counter....

As it turned out, there was a Chuck Norris wannabe on the site with a popgun, and despite the claims of CCW enthusiasts, all he did was get himself shot.

http://www.gunguys.com/?p=376

"were it not always in the back of the criminals' minds that a potential victim might have a revolver in his pocket or an automatic in her purse. "
Yeah, the gun lobby hired a racist crackpot named John Lott to produce a whole book based on that fantasy. But it isn't even close to being true.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issues/?page=lott

"The enthusiastic public support for concealed carry (and firearms ownership in general)"
Love to see THAT backed up by an impartial source. Most Americans oppose this crap, and damn few feel safer knowing some twitchy gump might be packing heat.

"the leadership -- of whom Sen. Patty Murray is typical -- fanatically oppose ALL private ownership of firearms"
I'm sure you can back THAT up too....NOT.

[thefool_wa]

57. One more time...

I read about this first on the DU this weekend (funny, huh?). After all day trying her Ceil phone my mom finally called me in the evening to confirm she was ok.

I kinda made light this weekend while I was trying to make sure she was ok (she manages a store near the Santa display) but, in all seriousness, we have to keep it together.

The violence that has been fostered in the world around us drives people who are on the edge across it with reckless abandon. Those who lack (or have been deprived of) the moral compass to realize these things are wrong are only encouraged to behave in this manner when they see so much violence accepted by our society.

War sucks, the world sucks, and life can really suck, but there is already too much terror in the world. Please, lets hold on a while longer. No one ever need die because of another's anger. And help is always better than spreading your pain.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Occulus]

62. That wasn't the point at all

"Getting rid of all the guns" is simply not an option. It never was, and never will be. The post hilighted something usually reserved for fundigelicals: our society is too violent in general. If you think using violence against random people is okay to solve your temporary problems, you'll be more likely to use a gun to do it if you have one.

That's not an argument against guns per se, but rather an argument against being continually inundated with violence and violent imagry. The key to this is a sharp knowledge of the difference between fantasy and reality- we have to consciously choose to ignore the message in that imagry that "this is okay".

[PunkPop]

64. Where did the poster call for getting rid of all guns?

Generally, sarcasm is more effective when it has something to do with the thing it is directed at.

[MrBenchley]

71. It doesn't matter....

The trigger happy see any restriction on their cheezy hobby as a castration threat....