Dean's attacks hurting party, Smith claims

[Feanorcurufinwe]

Congressmen don't normally get involved in presidential politics this early, but Rep. Adam Smith of Tacoma says former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean and his activist supporters are threatening to tear the Democratic Party apart and ensure the re-election of President Bush.

"I don't think it cuts in our favor if the electorate sees a frothing-at-the-mouth Democratic Party," Smith said.

Both in an interview and a guest column in the Capitol Hill newspaper Roll Call, Smith said Dean has used "shameless opportunism" and "wedge politics" to divide the Democratic Party and fashion a message that could keep Bush in the White House and leave Republicans in control of Congress.

Smith said Dean has emerged as the leader for the Democratic presidential nomination by vilifying his opponents as "cockroaches" and denouncing their politics as "Bush lite."
http://www.tribnet.com/news/local/story/4331229p-4340279c.html

[matcom]

1. "wedge politics"

you mean like actually standing up and PUBLICALLY DISAGREEING with:

War
Tax Cuts for the Rich
War
Social Program Cuts
War
Patriot Act
War
Etc...
Etc...
Etc...

DAMN those "wedge politics"!!

:eyes:

[The Magistrate]

5. The Use Of 'Wedge Politics' Against Other Democrats In The Primaries, Sir

Will do great damage to the eventual nominee, even if this should prove to be Gov. Dean. Better to attack the current administration, and show how well it can be done, rather than stigmatizing intramural opponents.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[matcom]

14. respectfully disagree sir

when your opponents voted for neverending wars, voted to stomp on our freedoms and voted to let the rich get richer and the poor get drunk, its time to seperate yourself from the DLCers

BUT

i DO FULLY agree that whilst seperating one's self from those wannabees, one MUST slam the current Admin at the same time.

just my .02

[markus]

24. The use of "wedge" issues against the GOP

is precisely what we should be doing. The GOP has secured the loyalty of people who have not common economic interest with the GOP what-so-ever by the use of "wedge issues". And that, in my view, is how we are going to pry them loose, primarily by economic wedge issues.

It has been the other candidates, I belive, who have really tried to use wedge issues "internally".

[AntiCoup2K4]

2. Leave it to Adam "barely a Dem" Smith to support the DLC position

Adam Smith is the right guy for the wishy washy 9th district, but he's not by any means the spokesman for Washington State Democrats.

[nocreativename]

31. I'd Say

From what I can tell. Washington is Dean Country.

[metisnation]

34. Smith

Should worry about his chances for re-election given his whorish voting record!


:kick:

[newyawker99]

56. Hi nocreativename!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Hawkeye-X]

3. Smith is a Kerry/Edwards supporter

or something like that.

Sorry to hear that Smith doesn't support Dean, but it sure ain't hurting OUR Democratic Party.

The old guard of the Democratic Party which is screeching towards to the right is dead.

The new, and fresh air of the Democratic Party has just started, and Dean is it.

Hawkeye-X

[blm]

6. Smith has NOT endorsed anyone at this point.

His concern is reflected in the internal polls which show that Dean brings down the ticket in more districts across the country. That is a legitimate concern for congressmen in swing areas.

[jburton]

Wrong-O

Did you read the article?

quote

Smith is one of the few members of Congress to have endorsed a presidential candidate and one of only two Democrats from Washington state. Smith announced his support for John Kerry months ago and has campaigned for the Massachusetts senator in Iowa.

[UpInArms]

4. well, we can hope that the

Repub-Lite version of the Dem Party takes a dirtnap.

[DinahMoeHum]

7. Smith can blow it out his rear end. . .

n/t

:evilfrown:

[Emillereid]

8. If Dean, who I consider a moderate,

can be marginalized this way, then the political landscape has gone through a seismic shift high on the richter scale.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

32. Marginalized? He's just asking Dean to

grow a brain. And I know that's asking for a lot but still....

[Flaming Meaux]

9. Frothing at the mouth?

You mean like Bill O'Really :puke: does EVERY SINGLE NIGHT on Faux News when somebody dares make a point that's differs from what he 'knows' is right?

You mean like Tony Snow :puke: has been doing for THREE SOLID HOURS every single day subbing for Rush Limbaugh?

You mean like Laura the Unloved :puke: has been doing for THREE SOLID HOURS every single day at women who dare work outside the home so their kids don't have to live in a shit neighborhood?

You mean like Sean Hannity :puke: does EVERY SINGLE NIGHT on Faux News at those 'soft and chewy' libs the network handpicks for him?

'Conservative' Republicans get to froth at the mouth all they want, but Democrats don't dare think about it? Give me a break!

[killbotfactory]

10. Bringing in more people to the democratic party = destroying

Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean.
Whine, whine, whine, whine.

Let's all dogpile on Dean, he's mean!

[Vogon_Glory]

11. Time To Unite Behind A Candidate Who'll Kick Butt!

I think it is time that the Democrats had a presidential candidate who'll come out swinging against the greedy, amoral, ruthless right-wing opportunists who have seized control of the federal government because the then-controlling factions of the Democratic Party weren't able to stand up to them.

My politics are close to those of the DLC, but I went to the polls in 2000 and in 2002 fearing that my candidates were too busy being Mister and Ms. niceguy to their GOP opponents and not going out and raising hell.

I fear that in these times that gentle centrists finish last when pitted against the sort of right-wingers currently holding the country by the throat. I hope Dean, or Clark, or whoever wins the nomination carries the fight to the neo-Falangists masquerading as "traditional conservatives."

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Ok, have some of the people in Congress

gone completely limp?

Dean is bringing more poeople into the party, if they only
realized it

[wryter2000]

13. Wait, wait, wait....

I see the light. How could I have been so blind, so stoopid? Smith and Zell Miller have shown me the light. Where do I sign up to support our great President?

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[matcom]

16. "We"?

you SURE about that?

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[roughsatori]

19. please don't include me in your "we"

I have serious doubts about your party affiliation and your ability to reason.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[roughsatori]

21. You mean Hitlery don't you?

[roughsatori]

22. You are not a very clever Republican RIP

[Spirochete]

23. Typical Repub...

dumber than a sack of hammers.
BTW - the caps lock key is on the left. It's the one with TWO words on it.

[roughsatori]

17. Smith is Republican-lite so he would hate the label

Smith is the kind of Democrat who is sapping the vitality of the party in the quest for "moderate" votes; so, it is impossible for me to take his opinion seriously.

[dolstein]

25. Please name a single Republican who votes like Adam Smith

I checked out the Project Vote Smart web site. Smith gets a perfect score from NARAL, a perfect score from the Human Rights Campaign, a perfect score from the National Education Association, and gets pretty high marks from the AFL-CIO, the NAACP, and the ACLU. He was endorsed by the Sierra Club.

While nobody would confuse him with Bernie Sanders, the only socialist member of the Hosue of Representatives, no rational person would ever mistake him for a Republican.

[tsipple]

33. Christopher Shays

Republican, Connecticut. Gets great scores from the alphabet groups.

On edit:

90 from Planned Parenthood
63 from NARAL (100 last year)
100 from Americans for the Arts
100 from Human Rights Campaign
Endorsed by the Sierra Club

[dolstein]

35. Let's compare the two, shall we?

NARAL Scores (2002)
Smith -- 100
Shays -- 63

Planned Parenthood Score (2002)
Smith -- 100
Shays -- 90

Chamber of Commerce (2002)
Smith -- 63
Shays -- 95

ACLU (2001-2002)
Smith -- 64
Shays -- 53

Human Rights Campaign (2002)
Smith -- 100
Shays -- 100

NAACP (2001-2002)
Smith -- 72
Shays -- 44

American Conservative Union (2002)
Smith -- 23
Shays -- 76

Christian Coalition (2001-2002)
Smith -- 17
Shays -- 42

National Education Association (2002)
Smith -- 100
Shays -- 0

League of Conservation Voters (2001-2002)
Smith -- 82
Shays -- 73

Children's Defense Fund (2001)
Smith -- 82
Shays -- 18

Brady Campaign (2002)
Smith -- 62
Shays -- 100

AFL-CIO (2002)
Smith -- 63
Shays -- 11

US Public Interest Research Group (2003)
Smith -- 76
Shays -- 38

Except for the issue of gun control, Smith consistently receives higher scores from liberal interest groups than Shays, and Shays consistently receives higher scores from conservative groups than Smith. And Chris Shays is not your typical Republican -- he's among the most liberal Republicans in Congress.

[sendero]

37. I am ...

Sooooooooo freaking tired of these effing 'ratings' that don't mean JACK SHIT!

These Republican ass kissers can KISS MY ASS. We are done with the "appeasement" phase of Operation America, IT DID NOT WORK. Name ONE FREAKING VICTORY, SAVE THE BLOCKING OF A COUPLE OF JUDICIAL APPTS, THIS CROP OF LOSERS HAS GIVEN US. ONE!

The more the "moderates" whine about "rending the party" the madder I get. THEY HAD THEIR FUCKING CHANCE AND WERE FOUND LACKING IN A MAJOR WAY. SCREW THEM ONE AND ALL.

Ok, I'll stop shouting now.

[dolstein]

51. Sorry, but facts are inconvenient things

And the fact is, Adam Smith doesn't vote like a Republican. Conservative groups don't think he votes like a Republican. Liberal groups don't think he votes like a Republican. The only people who seem to think he votes like a Republican are the people who are so far to the left of the political spectrum that they've lost sight of both parties.

[Scott Lee]

26. GOOD!!!!

Congressmen don't normally get involved in presidential politics this early, but Rep. Adam Smith of Tacoma says former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean and his activist supporters are threatening to tear the Democratic Party

The statism of the Decrepitcrat Party MUST be torn apart so we can have a DEMOCRATIC party again.

Froth away.

[edzontar]

27. Dean is being targeted because he threatens special interests....

Like the ones supported by whoring so-called Dems (or Dem Lites) who support Bush's criminal war, his tax cuts for the rich, and Fascism overall.

Smith is just performing his expected duties for the pigs who control the world.

Smith has been bought and paid for, and, as the man suggested, could be fairly labelled as a cockroach.

[blm]

36. Dean is the most corporate friendly candidate in the field.

His advisor, Toby Moffett, was a Monsanto VP who now lobbies for Iraq business with BOB LIVINGSTON (R-pervert).

Get a grip on the CATO Institute's highest rated Democrat, gang...Howard Dean.

I can't believe it when some of you actually repeat that bologna as if Dean really was a populist.

[quaker bill]

42. Wrong, that would be Edwards

Edwards program of targeted tax cuts and 'enterprise zone' styled incentives for business makes him by far and away the most qualified for this title. Dean has proposed nothing like this kind of public largess to business.

[AP]

46. Edwards is the guy who will make America the richest, but...

...he's definitely not the guy who's going to concentrate that wealth in the hands of the richest or the corporations.

In case you haven't noticed, he has made a living making sure money flows to the middle class and the working class and to people who were wronged by large corporations.

Also, his tax plan is the best for people who work for a living.

[Upfront]

28. Dean Is Going

to kick these Republican lite boys away from the trough. Go get um Howard!

[jsw_81]

29. I live in Smith's district

He can kiss my ass. He shunned Clinton in 1998 when he flew up here to visit and has been attacking liberals ever since. Hopefully we'll get a REAL Democrat in that seat someday.

[tex46]

30. I think everyone would do well to

read this opinion piece on the DU home page.

[Vis Numar]

38. Funny story on Adam Smith

Last year, Dean came to speak to the Kings County Democrats. Smith was in attendence. Before the gig, Smith got lambasted by a few Dems for having voted FOR raising the debt limit (which is fiscally irresponsible), he was only one of three Democrats to vote for it. Anyway, Dean got up to speak, and in the middle of his speech, said hi to all the reps present, and after mentioning Smith, said "and thank you all for your courageous vote against increasing the debt, and burdening future generations with fiscal irresponsibility". The crowd clapped, and I roared in laughter as Smiths ears turned red.

[dolstein]

39. If Smith is Repub-lite, that must make Castro a New Deal Democrat, right?

Sorry, but I have to laugh at all these posts calling Smith Repub-lite and "barely a Dem". I actually visited the project vote smart web site and look at the ratings he gets from interest groups on the right and the left. While he gets pretty high scores from the NRA and the Chamber of Congress, he's still well to the left of all but the most liberal handful of Republicans in the Congress. The fact is that Smith is far more representative of the Democratic Party that most DU'ers would care to admit.

[MGKrebs]

40. Somebody better tell Larry Sabato that Dean is dividing the party.

He seems to think that Dean has the most money, the most people, the best organization, and the best poll numbers. Very divisive.


5 points---money raised and available to spend, plus potential for future fundraising
* 4 points---‘people power’
* 4 points---NH poll results
* 3 points---IA poll results (IA may be first, but NH has a full field and IA in ’04 does not)
* 2 points---Phase Two ‘Firewall’ polls (IA and NH may change these polls, but there is still some significance to the early lineup)

Now, drum roll please...

Our first semi-predictive Theory of Political Relativity
(with apologies to Albert Einstein)

The DEMOCRATIC CRYSTAL BALL FORMULA - V=MP2
(Victory=Money times Polls&People squared)

Tier....Candidates...$$$...People Power...NH...IA...Firewall States...TOTAL
I................Dean..........5.................4.................4.....3...............2...................18
II...............Kerry..........3.................1.................3.....2...............1...................10
.............Gephardt.......2.................3.................0....3................1....................9
III..............Clark..........1.................3.................1....0................2....................7
.............Edwards........2.................1.................0....1................2....................6
...........Lieberman......1.................1.................0....0................2....................4
IV..........Kucinich........0.................1.................0....0................0....................1
.............Sharpton........0.................1.................0....0................0....................1
................Braun...........0.................0................0.....0................0....................0

http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/pres_newrating.htm

[liberalmuse]

41. Aw, toughen up, will ya?

The politico's in DC and in the media haven't even scratched the surface of how incredibly angry people are with the Bush administration. We need Dean, Kucinich, Clark, Kerry--all the candidates to speak out voraciously against the destructive policies that are driving this country into the ground. We need a REAL opposition party, and I sure as hell don't like what I've seen from the Democratic party in the past decade.

On edit: left out some words.

[quaker bill]

43. Exactly.

Dean has inspired the entire field to a depth of criticism of the current misadministration that will serve us well in 2004.

[shoopnyc123]

44. IF

"A Bush aide searched for a silver lining: "If we were smart, we would take advantage of this to concede the obvious and talk about how we're trying to solve the problem."

Operative word: IF.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/27/timep.rumsfeld.tm/

[MGKrebs]

45. HeeHee!! 4 leaks in the first 3 paragraphs

of that story. Too funny!

[goforit]

47. Anyone have Smith's voting record????.....Calling the kettle black?

We'll see how exposed you really are.

[dolstein]

48. If you want to know about Smith's voting record . . .

just go to the Vote Smart website.

[leesa]

49. Yes, of course, because the elitist rich DNC and DLC want to keep things

just the way they are. They worked long and hard to get the Bush machine into office. The rich love this and want it.

[truthisfreedom]

50. hahahaha

you may be right. perhaps both dean and clark are "tearing the party apart." forcing the useless, right-leaning losers out into the open and letting us see them for what they really are.

[stickdog]

52. Yeah. The Dem Party was just rocking & rolling until that damn Dean

showed up with all those energetic supporters angry at Bush and proud to be Democrats!

[DemBones DemBones]

53. Read it all and pay attention to the scary part:

Over the years, Smith has emerged as one of the leaders of the moderate Democratic faction in the House with strong ties to the centrist Democratic Leadership Conference.


But Smith said his comments were not driven by his links to the DLC, which has been highly critical of Dean.


Prior to his decision to run for president, Smith said, Dean was "Mr. DLC," supporting such moderate positions as a balanced budget. But Smith said Dean saw an opportunity to jump-start his presidential campaign by playing to party activists.


"They wanted someone to stand up to Bush and punch him in the eyes," Smith said. "He saw an opportunity and jumped. He's a totally different person."



What if Dean gets the nomination and beats Bush*? Will he go back to being "Mr.DLC" at that point?

[stickdog]

54. Dean stepped up and said what needed to be said.

Most of us are "different people" as well.

Bush's term has made most sane informed political observers "different people." Only those inside the beltway don't get it because they're involved in so many layers of lies that they can't see the fundamental horror of how the thuggish, gangster-like neocons play to anyone with a scrap of idealism left.

[Voltaire99]

55. The attack on Dean is just picking up steam

There'll be more. Corporate-friendly centrist or not, he's transgressed the rules of the gentlemen's club - and his "fellow" Dems will be drawing their rhetorical knives in greater and greater number. The only question is whether they'll settle for gelding Dean or destroy his candidacy entirely.

Frankly, I think the cockroaches remark is probably the most useful thing Dean has ever said. If he continues saying as much, I'll even vote for him.