NSA Gave Other U.S. Agencies Information From Surveillance

[cal04]

Fruit of Eavesdropping Was Processed and Cross-Checked With Databases
By Walter Pincus

Information captured by the National Security Agency's secret eavesdropping on communications between the United States and overseas has been passed on to other government agencies, which cross-check the information with tips and information collected in other databases, current and former administration officials said.

The NSA has turned such information over to the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) and to other government entities, said three current and former senior administration officials, although it could not be determined which agencies received what types of information. Information from intercepts -- which typically includes records of telephone or e-mail communications -- would be made available by request to agencies that are allowed to have it, including the FBI, DIA, CIA and Department of Homeland Security, one former official said.


At least one of those organizations, the DIA, has used NSA information as the basis for carrying out surveillance of people in the country suspected of posing a threat, according to two sources. A DIA spokesman said the agency does not conduct such domestic surveillance but would not comment further. Spokesmen for the FBI, the CIA and the director of national intelligence, John D. Negroponte, declined to comment on the use of NSA data. Since the revelation last month that President Bush had authorized the NSA to intercept communications inside the United States, public concern has focused primarily on the legality of the NSA eavesdropping. Less attention has been paid to, and little is known about, how the NSA's information may have been used by other government agencies to investigate American citizens or to cross-check with other databases. In the 1960s and 1970s, the military used NSA intercepts to maintain files on U.S. peace activists, revelations of which prompted Congress to restrict the NSA from intercepting communications of Americans.

Today's NSA intercepts yield two broad categories of information, said a former administration official familiar with the program: "content," which would include transcripts of a phone call or e-mail, and "non-content," which would be records showing, for example, who in the United States was called by, or was calling, a number in another country thought to have a connection to a terrorist group. At the same time, NSA tries to limit identifying the names of Americans involved.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/31/AR2005123100808.html

[aquart]

1. How many times have we done this illegal violation of American privacy?

How many Americans have been violated?

And a New Year shoutout to our boys at the NSA!

[hootinholler]

3. If you've sent an email

You can assume you've been violated. They couldn't even go to FISA because FISA couldn't have authorized such a dragnet operation.

My guess is even money they just grabbed everything inside and out of the US they could grab.

-Hoot

[madeline_con]

2. Who leaked this to WaPo?! Bwahahahahahaha! n/t

[bluestateguy]

4. Duh

How else will the IRS know who to audit? Just like the Census Bureau's insistence that they don't pass on information to other agencies. Um hm, right, sure.

I'm all for information sharing, when the information is obtained legally.

[hang a left]

5. Check this out

But other agencies, one former official said, have used phone numbers or other records obtained from NSA in combination with wide-ranging databases to look for links and associations. "What data sets are included is a policy decision when they involve other than terrorist links," he said.

Wide ranging databases, would that be like library records, or amazon.com purchases, or websites you visit, or internet comments you make?

Are they making lists? Do I need to get some sleep?

[badgervan]

6. Cause To Worry

33 years ago, I spent my last year of Naval service at the NSA. Even back then, we could hear a fly in a room - hundreds of miles away. What they are capable of now, I don't even want to guess.
What I worry about is not the intel being gathered ( although I do worry about that - if it is being done illegally; without a federal warrant, etc. ) - it is who is putting it together, and for what cause(s)it is being used. Raw intel by itself is worthless. However, if someone or someones wants to manipulate the intel ( usually from many different sources ) to fit a certain preconceived plan, or outcome, that is BIG cause for worry. And it is the folks at the top of the intel chain who fit the pieces together.
Do you trust the likes of cheney and rummy to look at this stuff objectively? I sure don't, and that is what I worry about - just as much as I worry that these slime have hijacked our intel agencies for their political purposes. That ain't the way its supposed to work, this I can say for sure.
There are some mighty pissed off good people at the NSA right now, of this I have no doubt. A useful agency has been manipulated and smeared by the very people who should be trusted. Number 1 rule at NSA used to be: we do not listen to our own citizens. Once that line is crossed, it is a slippery slope to the loss of our cherished open and free democracy. I fear that we have crossed the line already.

[Warren Stupidity]

10. Some of us have been pointing this out for weeks.

The NSA system snarfs everything into a huge database. The question is not who was monitored (the answer to that is easy: everyone) the question is who had access to the database and to what use did they put that access, The answer to that question is starting to appear: lots of people had access. Did any white house groups have access? Did they have access last year during the political campaign?

[Journeyman]

7. What agencies are allowed access to illegally obtained information? . . .

Information from intercepts -- which typically includes records of telephone or e-mail communications -- would be made available by request to agencies that are allowed to have it. . .

[alfredo]

8. Other Agencies like Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Bank of America?

[Stephanie]

9. So essentially we have the Pentagon illegally spying on US citizens?

is it too late to end this insanity?

[Supersedeas]

23. A govt by for and through the Oligarchy--keeping tabs on their Commoners

[lostnfound]

11. Framing: "a number thought to have a connection to a terrorist group"

For casual readers (themselves a small subset of the general public), the WP is reiterating that this is a concern only for people who might be contacting suspected terrorists. I.e., "NOT ME!"

What evidence is there that the targeted population is so narrow? Zero.

[Theduckno2]

12. I used to think I was a little paranoid.

When I set up my Windows screensaver with the phrase "Remember, the telescreen is watching and listening", I did it more out of respect for Orwell. It is a whole lot spookier now though! Fortunately, my house is old and there is a corner in the basement, where the telescreen can't see me as I sit and scribble entries into an illicitly obtained writing book.

Oh-oh I have said too much.:tinfoilhat:

I do think that even the powers that be will have a problem with this type of information gathering and move stridently to fix this abuse of executive power. The fact that Bush is seeking to punish those who revealed the existence of NSA spying on U.S. citizens and still the MSM continues to report on the issue, gives me some hope.

[PSPS]

13. They left out John Bolton

> Information from intercepts ... would be made available by request to
> agencies that are allowed to have it, including the FBI, DIA, CIA and
> Department of Homeland Security

and John Bolton

http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/12/16/142620/20

[LizW]

14. So, essentially, they are doing EXACTLY what they were doing

in the 70's?

In plain English, the NSA has access to EVERYTHING. They can hear and record ANYTHING you say on the phone or post on the Internet, or say in e-mail. They can see your financial transactions if they want to. Your medical histories can be legally accessed. You have to sign a form every time you see a doctor or get a prescription filled that says it's okay for the government to see your records.

They can isolate your information without a warrant, and they can share that information with other agencies, including the Pentagon. Now we know where the information came from that led to those lists of protes groups around military facilities, don't we? We know what they consider a "threat", because of the leaked pages we've all seen.

Why should we believe for one moment that our information won't be used to create a preconceived pattern that they want to create? It is EXACTLY what they did with the intelligence leading up to the Iraq war. They got access to the raw data, and they cherry-picked it to fit their plan. Why wouldn't they do that to make you or me look like a criminal? They would.

And they don't have to worry about any of it holding up in court, because there is not going to be any court. That was the FIRST thing they fixed, back in 2001.

[Warren Stupidity]

15. Exactamundo.

The NSA snarfs everything. That is the part the whoremedia keeps leaving out, pretending this is about a bunch of wiretaps put on mythical 'bad guys'. It ain't. They already had the power to do THAT through FISA. This is about snarfing everything and then browsing through it look for ANYTHING YOU WANT TO LOOK FOR. And now we learn, as predicted, that access to the NSA database went far beyond the NSA. Who wants to bet that access went to Cheney's WHIG and it successor?

[Patsy Stone]

16. You know...

If this whole thing weren't such a violation of privacy, I'd be very pleased that this administration finally got around to coordinating ANYTHING into a cohesive database.

So, they can do all this on the DL, but when it comes to a completely dynamic searchable database of terrorists for transportation and surveillance watch lists, this they can't do in four years?

If you're gonna do something illegal, while you're at it, why not also use the technology for good to throw people off the scent?

[The2ndWheel]

17. Negroponte, confirmed 98-2 for DNI

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00107

That's confirmed 98-2...98-2...in 2005. You know, after Negroponte made a name for himself. Ninety-eight, to two. That means two, 2...1, 2...not 3 or 4, but 2...Senators did not vote to confirm him as the central authority in the intelligence community. That's 98 Senators, in 2005, voting to confirm him. That was after they voted to confirm him as ambassador to Iraq by about the same margin a year earlier. Not 1985, but 2005.

[newspeak]

18. I'm not forgetting anytime soon

the Iran-Contra BCCI scandal---Negroponte has so much blood on his hands, I wonder how he sleeps at night--Oh, sociopaths have no conscience. I won't forget the Salvadoran death squads, and now we have death squads in Iraq? Now, who do you think is responsible?

[donkeyotay]

19. I have two problems with letting these scumbags spy on us

Talon is a system that civilian and military personnel use to report suspicious activities around military installations. Information from these reports is fed into a database known as the Joint Protection Enterprise Network, which is managed, as is the Talon system, by the Counterintelligence Field Activity, the newest Defense Department intelligence agency to focus primarily on counterterrorism. The database is shared with intelligence and law enforcement agencies and was found last month to have contained information about peace activists and others protesting the Iraq war that appeared to have no bearing on terrorism.

Problem # 1: They will abuse their power, absolutely no doubt:

This is CIFA and 2 of the republican defense contractors were MZM and White Oak Technologies Inc. (WOTI). MZM is one of the contractors revealed in the Cunningham scandal, and White Oak is "linked" (if "link" is the new standard, I can use it too.) to Abramoff. Who is going to check up on the right-wing war-mongering rat-bastards to see who they are selling US out to?

Problem #2: If all these billions are being so well spent, and these wonderful, patriotic companies have America's best interests in mind, HOW COME THEY COULD NOT EVEN MANAGE A FEMA DATA BASE TO COORDINATE ACCOUNTING FOR THE MISSING IN KATRINA?

Noooo, just like the intell couldn't see 9-11 coming and our bazillion dollar defense industry could defend us. WHERE THE HECK IS OUR MONEY? The secret national security industry must be a rathole the size of a blackhole. There. Put that in my file.

Oh, and by the way, The Enterprise was the name of a multinational outfit that Ollie North helped found to do the dirty deeds the CIA might not be able to do since Congress told them not to. Interesting that the name is still in use as the GOP seems to have a very international flair these days. I don't know who they work for, but it sure isn't us.

[0007]

20. The farther this goes the stinkier it gets.

When will we be told that every police chief in America has assess to NSA? And all of junior's ermines were on the list?

[Boo Boo]

21. Of course they have

The NSA obtains information by listening in on phone conversations and other electronic communications (e.g. the Internet), but if they don't share that information with other agencies it would all be rather pointless.

To get an idea of the scope of what is being discussed WRT "wiretapping" American citizens, consider the database of anti-war groups (like the Quaker group we've heard about) that the Pentagon is know to have compiled. Where is the Pentagon getting their data from? Since they don't have the capability to collect this information with "boots on the ground," they must be discovering these groups through data-mining. So, again, where does the data come from?

Take a wild guess.

"Total Information Awareness" cannot be accomplished without using the capabilities that uniquely belong to the NSA. They can tap into main communication arteries and use their massive computational power to sift through huge amounts of data for "suspicious" activity. But, they are producing information to somebody's specification---that is, what to focus on and what to ignore. The consumers of the NSA's product then do whatever it is they intend to do. In the case of the Pentagon, they review/classify the data in a huge database of groups/actors that they are nominally interested in, then they instruct the NSA as to which entities they would like more information on. (Note: I'm guessing here, obviously.)

I guarantee: DU is in that database. Any type of search at all would turn this site up, because "suspicious" keywords appear on this site all the time. But, that doesn't really mean anything; they could quite easily decide to ignore it after having a look. We don't really know if this gets abused in any serious way. It's the precedent, the subverting of law, the lack of oversight and, therefore, the potential for abuse that's important.

Obviously, if Bush's actions come to be considered "legal," then political repression is a fait accompli---it is only a matter of time (if it isn't already happening). What the Bush Admin is putting in place here is like the East German Stasi on steroids.

All hail the Patriot Act!

Hey, speaking of patriot acts, did they ever catch that Anthrax guy?

[oasis]

22. It's time for Americans to shed themselves of all vices. (eom)