Mo. lawmaker seeks to ban cold beer sales

[Judi Lynn]

Thursday, January 5, 2006 · Last updated 7:01 p.m. PT

Mo. lawmaker seeks to ban cold beer sales

By CHRIS BLANK
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. -- A state senator wants to force Missouri stores to sell warm beer. Under a bill by Sen. Bill Alter, grocery and convenience stores would risk losing their liquor licenses if they sold beer colder than 60 degrees. The intent is to cut down on drunken driving by making it less tempting to pop open a beer after leaving the store.

"The only reason why beer would need to be cold is so that it can be consumed right away," Alter, who has been a police offer for more than 20 years, said Thursday.

He said the idea came from a fifth-grade student in Jefferson County who was participating in a program to teach elementary students about state government. He sought their suggestions for new laws and chose the cold beer ban from a list of the top three ideas.

"I thought it had the best chance at getting legislative attention," said Alter, R-High Ridge. "Plus, I think it's a good idea whether or not other people do."
(snip/...)

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110AP_Warm_Beer.html





Why not have only warm beer?

Biography for Senator Alter

Bill Alter was born on May 15, 1944 in Iowa City, Iowa. After graduating from Parkway school district, Sen. Alter attended the U.S. Navy Electronics School from 1963 to 1965. From 1982 to 1984, he went to Jefferson College Law Enforcement Training Center and since then has gained 22 years of law enforcement experience.

He began his legislative career with Missouri's House of Representatives when he was elected in 1989. In 1993, he was re-elected and completed eight more years of service as a lawmaker. He was elected to the Missouri Senate in 2005.

Sen. Alter currently serves as a reserve police officer, owns a management business and is the vice president of a national company.

He is a member of the Republican Club and National Rifle Association. He is the former president of the High Ridge Rotary, and was the co-founder and former treasurer of the Northwest Jefferson County Chamber of Commerce.
(snip/)

http://www.senate.mo.gov/05info/members/bios/bio22.htm

[hlthe2b]

1. heh heh... yeah, that will go over!

My heavens... how many members of my dearly departed family just rolled over in their graves! Unless things have changed dramatically since I last spent time in MO, that's going to be construed a bit like throwing out Mom, Pop and the apple pie. :shrug:

[saigon68]

65. This person is AN ASS CLOWN

What the Fuck is wrong with people to VOTE for this ASSHOLE?

Too bad apparently there are no hungry children or ill Seniors needing medication, in this ASS WIPES District.

[BrainRants]

2. Hmmm, MO must not have too many other probelms to solve

if this is how they spend their legislative time.

OTOH, interesting idea.

[Warpy]

3. Anybody who drinks a commercial beer warm is gonna notice

that it tastes like carbonated cat pee.

Drunks generally don't mind, though, as long as it gets them there

[acmavm]

5. Exactly. Alkies can drink it warm, cold, or in between. Why doesn't

this guy just try to ban beer sales altogether. That's what he really wants to do.

And he takes his political points from 5th graders?

By the way, I don't drink so I personally don't care what state anyone's beer is in. But I do know that if you're mowing the lawn on a hot Saturday and feel like a beer, you don't exactly want to wait for two hours until the stuff cools down. Anyway, people I know wouldn't.

[DemonFighterLives]

4. I wonder if he likes his sh*t warm?

:puke:
This fellow probably has a full stock in the cooler and wine cellar and refrigerators and freezers dedicated to keeping his stuff cold.
It takes energy to cool the beer. Chilled beer is therefore a better value and is cooler ready and won't melt the ice so fast.
I'm sure there are other reasons.
:toast:

[Kolesar]

6. Great Lakes Brewery procucts are shipped cold because they have...

..no preservatives. They are dated and must be consumed in a matter of a few weeks. I have never had a problem with the last requirment becausse, well, they are delicious. I am going to miss the Christmas Ale. I may get more work done, though, ha ha ha

[mopinko]

67. bell's also

they tried for a long time to get there retailers to always keep it cold. hard to do tho.
the really good beers are better a little warmer, anyway. 60 is not bad.

[sleipnir]

83. Ummm...if that's true, that's an advertising scam they're running.

Beer will still be consumable for years after the brew date as long as the bottle is closed at the brewery.

Now, the real issue is in flavor. The true flavor the beer-master is attempting to achieve will be lost in 2-3 months due to several factors, not limited to the yeast continuing to ferment, yeast rot (dying cells of yeast that got by the filters,) the color of the bottle and if it's been in direct sun or not, temperature the beer was stored at and so on.

The truth is there are no preservatives in beer because it doesn't need them, technically. I can open a beer from 1989 and as long as it's been stored in a glass bottle in decent conditions, I'm not going to get sick. It may taste like shit, but that's about it.

Most Macro-brew domestics have such a poor and indistinguishable taste from crap that you can't tell if it's gone "bad." Budweiser and all the rest use no additives, it's just that their beer tastes like shit so no one cares about the subtle nuances in hops, water, and other flavorings.

There is no way a beer will go bad in a few weeks. If it does, then the brewery or distributor is certainly at fault.

[Kolesar]

85. So, if kept cold, it will taste better longer--and that's about it

Do you want to be in charge of refreshments for the next meetup? :beer: I was on a 13 day backpack trip and came upon an old mining site where someone had stashed a few cans of what you call macro-brew. I call that stuff "rice beer", because they are cost-reduced pilsners with the cheapest ingredients. Our party passed it around too see if anyone would open it and down it. No one would. Last time I go on a 13 day trip. Not so much because of the weight of the pack, but 13 days is too long to go without a beer.

[jamesinca]

7. He has a point

Warm beer sucks, unless it is Guinness. That is best at room temperature in a pint, right from the tap. The problem I see with his knee jerk, short sighted (Republican) point of view is that it does not take into account places called bars, pubs, bar and grill, restaurants, concerts, sporting events, county fairs, private residence, etc....

This guy was just elected, he has 3-1/2 years to be stupid and 6 month to be pretty before re-election.

[muriel_volestrangler]

27. Room temperature is too warm for Guinness

Draft technicians show bartenders how to pour a pint, they preach about the importance of clean glassware and clean lines, about serving Guinness at the right temperature (stored at 38 degrees Fahrenheit, poured at 44), and they emphasize the importance of a fresh product.
...
Another Bud drinker joins in: But Guinness is served at room temperature in Ireland, right? "Actually, it's served a little warmer in the United States," O'Callaghan explains, smiling.

http://www.beertravelers.com/lists/drafttech.html

60 degrees is even a bit warm for English bitter: http://www.ratebeer.com/Story.asp?StoryID=479

Nevertheless, this does sound like an evil English plot to take over the Missouri beer market ... :evilgrin:

[joeunderdog]

70. Bad beer tastes worse warmer. That's why they tell you to ice it.

Bud figured this out when they cheapened their product in the 40's. The colder the food/drink, the less able your taste buds can respond. The cold masks the bad flavor. That's why well-made beer tastes better at cellar temerature.

But the question I have is: will they make ice illegal in MO, too?

[depakid]

8. That'll go over well with the constituents- LOL

If his Dem opponent doesn't find a way to weave this into a clever campaign ad, he or she deserves to lose....

[Trajan]

13. Hey JJ ....

Just tell a state full of gun totin camo wearin beer guzzlin conservatives they cant buy cold beer ....

And wait for the bullets to fly ...

JJ ? ... We are having another Portland MeetUp ... check out the Oregon forum ...

I hope all is well with you and yours ....

[depakid]

15. Bubba don't like warm beer!

I'll check it out. May just make it this time-

[moggie]

9. Riiight

So, non-drivers never buy beer? No driver ever buys beer for their passengers?

This is probably motivated more by distaste about public drinking.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. Open container laws

In many states, no one in the car can have an open container of alcohol.

[panzerfaust]

10. In the beginning, ALL beer was good

... and was as good either cold or warm (just different).

Prohibition. Now which amendment was that?

Oh yes, it was the one that had the unanticipated side effect of creating nation-wide crime syndicates and which thus started the recently culminated process of handing our government over to the criminals.

سبحان الله (Glory be to God)

[bling bling]

11. There are other reasons people like to buy cold beer.

Like, so they can drink it when they get home. Or if you run out of beer at a party and need to go buy some more. Or, if you're on the way to a barbeque and you want to grab the beer on the way.

I wonder what percentage of drunk-driving accidents are due to the driver drinking cold beer in the car straight from the store.

[mindem]

12. Here is the proof!!

The right wing functions at a 5th grade level. They let 5th graders push legislation now. Gawd help us.

[Inland]

14. DUH. Beer is sold very cold so it is drinkable HOURS LATER w/o refrig.

It's put right in the cooler, not consumed, from the store.

[justabob]

16. Doesn't OK have a similar law to this

I seem to recall that some beer can't be sold cold, depending on its alcohol content. It has been a very long time since I bought beer there so I may be totally wrong.... but I am curious if that is still the case there.

[karlrschneider]

51. Yes, kind of. Supposedly only 3.2% beer can be sold chilled

and anything stronger(?) can only be sold warm in a state-licensed liquor store. Personally, I can't tell the difference, I think it all comes out of the same faucet.

[justabob]

54. Thanks

I knew it was something like that.

[SaintLouisBlues]

17. The Anheuser-Busch lobby will crush him like an insect,

just like they do with any legislation from Jeff City that they don't like.

[Sequoia]

42. Coors too. Their beer must always be cold.

Idiot repub as usual.

[proud2BlibKansan]

46. Nuff said

Those were my initial thoughts as well.

[Roland99]

18. And so starts the slide down the slippery slope. A new Prohibition coming?

And here in Ky we just finally got rid of the blue laws banning liquor sales on Sunday. Now, if we could just remove the restrictions of not being able to buy it before 1pm (I think that's what is).

[onenote]

60. sounds like the slide is running the other way

A bit over the top in linking this goofy idea (motivated I think by an authentic, if misguided, concern about drinking and driving) into the first step toward prohibition, especially since you ackowledge that restrictions on alcohol sales are loosening in your neck of the woods. If someone posted that the relaxation of Sunday alcohol sales represented the first step on a slippery slope to the elimination of all laws relating to alcohol (including age limits and penalties for drunk driving), I'd say they were stretching. Well, so is your post.

onenote

[MadHound]

19. I heard that this morning on local radio

And laughed my ass off. People like their beer cold here in Missouri, and for that very reason such stupidity will never get out of committee. In addition, this guy is fucking with the Busch brewing conglomerate, and they will roll right over him. In fact I think that this guy just signed his own political death warrant, because the Busch people don't take kindly to anybody even vaguely threatening them. I expect that the next time this idiot is up for election he will be facing a well backed, well financed opponent in the primaries, and if manages to win there, then in the general election as well.

[trogdor]

20. If I'm entertaining, and I need to make a beer run.

I sure as hell ain't gonna serve my guests warm beer. Considering how convenience stores live on beer sales, I figure this will go over like a lead balloon.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. Please post this in the MO forum too

This is just another idiot running the state of MO into the ground. In the meantime, the highways are so bad it is dangerous to drive across MO. And the roads are peppered with signs advertising juice bars and gentlemen's clubs.

Friggin idiots.

[Judi Lynn]

24. Thanks for the suggestion! Glad to see that section for the first time.

Missouri politics are very important to me, too, since I live just a few miles away in Kansas.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. Where in Kansas?

Are you in KC?

[Judi Lynn]

29. Shawnee-Mission. What about you? n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. Me too!

We are having a meetup tonight at Jazz at 39 and State Line. Come!!

[KansDem]

37. Damn! And I just got a Berbiglia shopper's discount card...!

What to do...what to do...

[proud2BlibKansan]

66. Don't buy that liquor and bring it across

the state line!

[KansDem]

71. I believe at one time Kansas ABC officers used to sit in their cars...

...in the parking lots of Missouri liquor stores waiting for cars with Kansas plates to park and the drivers to go into the store to buy their hooch. Then the agents would follow them back across the state line and pull them over to issue a citation.

As the story goes, this was standard practice until the agents pulled over a driver who had just purchased a case of wine. Turned out the driver was a Johnson County judge!

on edit: at least I believe this story to be true...

[proud2BlibKansan]

80. I know that is true

I can remember very well when the TV news used to ride along with the cops in Prairie Village and film the busts.

[yellowcanine]

22. Downright unAmerican. Why does Bill Alter hate America? Cold beer

is an American right, along with Sunday football, protected by the Constitution.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. No way will this pass

Anheuser Busch is headquartered in St. Louis and OWNS Jeff City. MO was one of the last state to change its laws lowering the blood alcohol level necessary to be considerd drunk. I think some open containers are still allowed in vehicles.

This guy has a major uphill battle ahead of him.

[spunky]

28. Indeed, you can have open containers

My sister lives in MO and is married to a lawyer. We were visiting once, and I nearly had a heart attack when he got into the car with a mixed drink. He said as long as the person driving isn't drinking it, its legal there. . . . I was dumbfounded.

[proud2BlibKansan]

48. It was just recently changed

For many many years the driver could have an open container.

[The Straight Story]

56. like smoking bans would never pass, or seat belts laws, and

so on and so on.

Everytime I see something I think would not pass somewhere it does. From legislating permits for garage sales to some states wanting to up the smoking age now to 19, and on and on.

Guns are another example - already enough laws on the books about them and killing/stealing/etc but those aren't working so they keep making more laws.

This one may not pass now, but give it time.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. As long as Anheuser Busch owns MO,

this law won't pass.

[CreekDog]

76. Seat belt use is up with the seat belt laws

And that was responsible in the declining rate of fatalities on the highway, along with tougher and more public enforcement of drunk driving laws.

Laws frequently help reduce the prevalence of a problem.

[spunky]

25. Heh, you can't buy cold beer in the county I live in.

It totally sucks. If you don't have any beer at home in the fridge, you have to wait when you get off work until it gets cold. Annoying as hell.

[MountainLaurel]

30. Didn't MO just cut health care for the poor?

Tell me this motherfucker doesn't have more important things to be dealing with?

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. Yes they cut nearly 1,000,000 off of medicaid

[leesa]

31. Well, at least he got something out of his 20 year career..."cold beer to

drink right away"

[UpInArms]

32. Here's an idea for Bill Alter!

No operational bullets should be sold - they should only sell re-load kits - that way no one can buy a bullet and immediately shoot their guns and commit crimes.

What a stupid freak.

[UpInArms]

34. and here's another idea!

No fully prepared food should be sold - only the "fix-ins" - that way no one can immediately consume foods that are poorly made and they will learn the necessary skill of putting food on their families.

[darkstar]

64. Likewise, all hard liquor should be kept frozen on

liquid nitrogen so it can't be consumed for hours after purchase.

[Samurai_Writer]

33. Well I guess that puts all the microbreweries out of business

Most microbreweries do not use preservatives in their beers, and it must be kept cold at all times. Good thing St. Arnold's (my favorite micro-brewed beer) is located in Texas and doesn't sell in Missouri.

[Norquist Nemesis]

35. People who "pop a beer" immediately after purchase at package

don't really care whether it's cold or not. Does MO law define intoxication at the level of one beer? Even here in Illinois, one beer isn't legally intoxicated and we have some of the toughest drunk driving laws in the country.

[KansDem]

36. "Warm beer, cold women..."

I just don't fit in,
every joint I stumbled into tonight
that's just how it's been
all these double knit strangers with
gin and vermouth and recycled stories
in the naugahyde booths

with the platinum blondes
and tobacco brunettes
I'll be drinkin' to forget you
lite another cigarette
and the band's playin' something
by Tammy Wynette
and the drinks are on me tonight

[evlbstrd]

38. Jesus H. Christ on a bicycle.

Please, Sen. Alter. Talk to another fifth-grader. Preferably one that drinks.

[HuffleClaw]

41. haahhahahhaaaa

yeah, is he next going to go to a panel of kindergartners for advice on juice box packaging?

[MindPilot]

39. How about making a law against drinking and driving?

Oh there already is one? Well then maybe you should try to figure out why that law doesn't work before you try to make more.

[Dulcinea]

40. That'll make ice sales go up!

Does he think that'll make people drink less beer? Please.

[Seedersandleechers]

43. The fifth grader that suggested this bill may have had a parent

who drank beer while driving with the excuse that he needed to drink before it got too warm.

[Initech]

44. Is he kidding? This is the same state that's home to Budweiser.

Anheuser Busch will probably bribe the guy not to get the law passed.

[CreekDog]

75. Missouri isn't the home of Budweiser...

Budweiser is made wherever urine is available.





*ok, not technically true :0)

[oneoftheboys]

50. Lagers and pilsners must be kept cold at all times.

[Bassic]

52. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard... nt

[mongo]

53. Day by day -- inch by inch

We are on our way to a facsist theocracy.

[onenote]

59. I think this is a dumb idea, but what does it have to do with theocraacy

I see no evidence that its being pushed by anyone with a religious objection to alcohol. And there are plenty of religious conservatives who don't object to alcohol. He thinks its a good measure for addressing drunk driving. Some DUers (hardly theocrats) agree. Some disagree. Calling this a fascist theocratic idea is really quite a stretch.

onenote

[earth mom]

55. I think it's a VERY good idea but then...

my mom was killed by a drunk driver almost 25 years ago and I probably have a different perspective than most on this thread. I also think cell phones should be banned from use while driving. Yeah, I'm turning into an old fogie...but NEVER a rethug!!! :grr:

[sandnsea]

69. Here's why it won't help

One cold beer won't get anybody drunk enough to become a hazard on the road. So it won't change that situation. The other situation is somebody who regularly drives drunk, and he/she won't care about the temperature of the beer. So it won't change that situation either. It's just annoying legislation that wastes time and doesn't fix anything. Alcoholism treatment? Something that really DOES work, when done correctly, oh Mr. Alter doesn't want to hear a blessed word about that. Disingenous bullshit to bamboozle their holier than thou voters, that's all these Republicans are ever about.

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. LOL - on the KC paper's blog site

Warm beer for the road?
Your Missouri legislators at work:
Lawmaker backs bill to ban cold beer

JEFFERSON CITY — A state senator wants to force Missouri stores to sell warm beer.

Under a bill by Sen. Bill Alter, grocery and convenience stores would risk losing their liquor licenses if they sold beer colder than 60 degrees. The intent is to cut down on drunken driving by making it less tempting to pop open a beer after leaving the store. Star story

This could work. Also: sell hard liquor with time-release caps that can only be opened, say, 20 minutes after leaving the store.

And am I the only one who remembers the store just off westbound I-70 a few miles east of Kansas City with a big sign that said "GUNS-AMMO-LIQUOR"? I always wanted to go in and say, "Give me a .38 and a fifth of Jack Daniels. I want to settle a dispute." Is that sign still there?

http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_scene/2006/01/warm_beer_for_t.html

[SKKY]

61. How cute of him to assume I would have a problem with warm beer..

[barb162]

62. No cold brewski on a humid 100 degree day in MO?

[blindpig]

63. Is this what they call "jumping the shark"?

:rofl: Yep, that'll get the bubba vote.

[Megahurtz]

68. I guess that's going to stop those people

with the little flasks in their suit coats. :eyes:

[WhiteTara]

72. does that mean that he would take suggestions

from his CONSTITUENTS? If so, call him today! Give him the wish list. Impeachment, trials for war crimes and restitution

[area51]

73. Ah, the republinazi party strikes again.

Yes, it's the party of less govt. interference in one's life. </sarcasm>

[CreekDog]

74. Drunk driving is a huge problem and he has a point

Frankly, if they brought a bill like this and/or one that forces all liquor to be sold only by the government, I would probably support it. One thing that has always bugged me is how easy it is to buy liquor in the poorest neighborhoods and the incentives those owners have for selling to minors.

My opinion won't be popular, I'm sure.

Still, Democrats recognize the need for regulation, especially things which are dangerous. Alcohol is dangerous if abused.

But I must admit, after living in Arizona and spending time in New Mexico, where drive-though liquor stores abound (formerly in NM) and equally present are drunk driving fatalities. I must admit that the 60-degree rule when it comes to selling beer is simply ingenious.

And I don't support Republicans or Puritan-types naturally, but like broken clock, perhaps this time they are right --but I'm sure it won't last long.

[meganmonkey]

77. So let's say I live in a city

and I am walking to my friend's house and I stop at the store to buy a six-pack for us to drink when we get there. I want my beer to be cold.

I think this is kind of absurd. If someone wants to crack open a beer that desperately in their car they won't care if it is warm or not. In fact, maybe they'll switch to something that goes down easier at room temperature like hard liquor.

It's like punishing the innocent for the behavior of the crazy bastards who are going to be crazy whether their beer os cold or not...

[barb162]

78. You have to put it in the trunk and then it's legal, right?

At least I think that is the case in my state

[sakabatou]

79. Who the hell in their right mind would buy warm beer?

Anybody?

[anotherdrew]

81. this is like ANTI-SATIRE how can I even lampoon this nut?

How about he have police pull over assholes drinking a beer in their car?

[me b zola]

82. Wow, what a nut. How about all of the "cold beer & ammo" stores?

Do they still have those in every rural town in MO? It never ceased to amaze me when I would pass one of those signs. :wtf:

[fujiyama]

84. Cutting down on drunk driving

certainly isn't a bad cause, but this really seems like the dumbest and most ineffective way of going about it.

[pinniped]

86. The kid and the repuke might have something if they included...

a ban on those keep-it-cold can holders, ice coolers, and ice.

[Hotler]

87. You want to curb drunk driving put some real meat in..

the law. Some real serious jail time, fines, for first time offenders. My point is, drunk driving laws are weak because to many people in power and/or position drive drunk. Cops, lawmakers, lawyers, doctors etc. I wonder how many times Alter and his fellow cops went to the bar after a shift and then drove home drunk. Happens every day. The repug way to deal with a problem is to penalize everyone instead of going after the real problem.

[currents]

88. Water has a very high specific heat value

that means that it takes a long time for cold beer to become warm.

That also means that it takes it a long time for it to chill from warm to ice cold.

That's why beer is sold cold.


Also, unlike soda, beer isn't served on ice. That is why people don't buy chilled soda.

[struggle4progress]

89. Ya'd make Judge Roy Bean right proud, Billy!

... There was a pile of rocks outside Bean's saloon, and he kept a big sign out there saying 'Ice Cold Beer.' In those days the railroad ran right through town, and in the summer tourists would get off here for a cold drink. They'd ask for beer, but it'd be hot when they got it. They'd say, 'How about that sign?' And old Bean would roar and yell, 'Who in hell ever heard of ice in this country in the summertime? But he never took the sign down ... <Bean's former neighbor Ike Billings, as reported by Ernie Pyle> http://www.healdthurston.com/AmericanPeople.htm

[lakemonster11]

90. I'm no expert...

but it seems to me that most drunk drivers are people who drive after they've been drinking (at a friend's house, a bar, a party, a sports event, etc.), not people who crack open beers on their way home from the liquor store.

[Tace]

91. IRONY -- Warm Beer Gets You Drunk Faster

I had to read through 90 replies to be sure I'm not just repeating the obvious -- you get drunk faster on warm beer, because your stomach absorbs it faster.

A few asides:

--I could care less whether it's warm or cold.
--My wife actually prefers to drink her beer in a glass with ice.