Castro Attends Peace Concert in Cuba's Lennon Park

[Say_What]

Yoko Ono's sister, Setsuko Ono, former World Bank loan official reiterates was James Wolfensohn, World Bank President said a few years ago "learn from Cuba".

Meanwhile, SmirkBoy continues to make war.


<clips>
HAVANA (Reuters) - John and Yoko spent a week in bed to give peace a chance. Cuban leader Fidel Castro (news - web sites) sat through a concert on Wednesday night and watched artists cover a Sherman tank with white sheets to protest wars.

The peace concert in Havana's Lennon Park drew at least 2,000 people.

Yoko's sister Setsuko Ono, a sculptor and former World Bank (news - web sites) loans official, took to the stage to praise communist-run Cuba for contributing to peace by building an egalitarian society with free access to education and health care for all.

"The words peace, democracy and human rights are being manipulated by politicians around the world," Ono, 62, said.

<http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20031106/people_nm/cuba_peace_dc_1>







Cuban President Fidel Castro (news - web sites) (L) shakes hands with Setsuko Ono, the sister of Yoko Ono (news) and a sculptor who is attending the 8th Biennale of Contemporary Art of Havana, during a concert for peace, Nov. 6, 2003. The concert was held in Havana's John Lennon (news) Park, where a sculpture of the former Beatle sits on a park bench. (Rafael Perez/Reuters)

[htuttle]

1. That is so cool...

...that they have a Lennon park, instead of a Lenin park.

Maybe Fidel is a bit of a 'Groucho' Marxist? ...:)

[Screaming Lord Byron]

2. Please lets stop pandering to Castro.

It makes us look like we condone Communism. The right wing love it.

[htuttle]

3. F*ck the right wing

If I lived my life in such as way as to avoid doing things that set off the right wing, well, then I'd be a right winger, wouldn't I?

:eyes:

[DisgustipatedinCA]

4. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I was about to reply, but you've said it all already.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

7. Castro is not a democrat. He is a dictator.

[Say_What]

11. So says the US propaganda machine about every other leader

who doesn't kowtow to Uncle Sam.

<clips>
America's Allies
THE FRIENDLY DICTATORS
Meet the Friendly Dictators - three dozen* of America's most embarrassing "friends", a cunning crew of tyrants and corrupt puppet-presidents who have been rewarded handsomely for their loyalty to U.S. interests.

Traditional Dictators seize control through force and often are self-styled "Generals." Constitutional Dictators hold office through voting fraud or severely restricted elections and are frequently mouthpieces for the military juntas which control the ballot boxes. Both types of dictators are covered here, along with a few tyrannical kings. but don't look for "enemy dictators" (communists and the like) in this set of cards. These are America's allies, strange and undemocratic as they may be.

Friendly Dictators often rise to power through bloody CIA-backed coups and rule by terror and torture. Their troops may receive training or advice from the CIA and other U.S. agencies. "Anti-communism" is their common battle cry and a common excuse for political repression. They are linked internationally through extreme right-wing groups such as the World Anti-Communist League (see card 17). Strong Nazi affiliations are typical - some have been known to dress in Nazi paraphemalia and quote from Mein Kampf, while others offer sanctuary for actual Nazi war criminals.

Friendly Dictators usually grow rich, while their countries' economies go down the drain. U.S. tax dollars and U.S. backed loans have made billionaires of some; others are international drug dealers who also collect CIA paychecks. Rarely are they called to account for their crimes.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/Cards_Index.html

[Screaming Lord Byron]

12. Simple question. Is Cuba a democracy.

Just because the right hate Castro, I don't know why we should run to his defence. Cuba is a Communist dicatorship.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

14. What? I support the Cuban people, but I don't support Castro.

I don't support Communists. I also don't support the embargo, or those idiots in Miami who long for the Batista way of life. I am a democrat. I support democracy. The Castro regime is a dictatorship with a lousy human rights record. I want democracy in Cuba. I don't see why I should get these seriously nasty flames for supporting Democracy. I thought that was the whole point.

[Say_What]

17. Hmmm, human rights in the US of A?? LOL Another HYPOCRITCAL

statement.

When you clean up your own back yard, MAYBE then you can preach to other countries about their *human rights record*. You can start with Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, but then there are those other issues that go on right here in your own back yard. Atrocities such as:

Executing juvenile offenders

Executing the mentally retarded

Being the world's biggest jailer (2 million and counting)

The good ol' US of A, along with China and Iran is considered the "Axis of Executioners"

and this latest article about Criminalizing being Mentally Ill says plenty about the *free and democratic* US of A.

<clips>
United States: Mentally Ill Mistreated in Prison
More Mentally Ill in Prison Than in Hospitals

(New York, October 22, 2003) Mentally ill offenders face mistreatment and neglect in many U.S. prisons, Human Rights Watch charged in a report released today.

One in six U.S. prisoners is mentally ill. Many of them suffer from serious illnesses such as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and major depression. There are three times as many men and women with mental illness in U.S. prisons as in mental health hospitals.

The rate of mental illness in the prison population is three times higher than in the general population.

According to the 215-page report, Ill-Equipped: U.S. Prisons and Offenders with Mental Illness, prisons are dangerous and damaging places for mentally ill people. Other prisoners victimize and exploit them. Prison staff often punish mentally ill offenders for symptoms of their illness – such as being noisy or refusing orders, or even self-mutilation and attempted suicide. Mentally ill prisoners are more likely than others to end up housed in especially harsh conditions, such as isolation, that can push them over the edge into acute psychosis.

http://www.hrw.org/press/2003/10/us102203.htm

[Screaming Lord Byron]

18. Why would I want to defend America's HR record.

I'm Canadian. Again, thanks for the burn.

[Say_What]

20. Thought that "they'll think we're commies" bullsh*t ended at the

northern border of the US. Only brainwashed 'muriKans are that self-centered and obsessed with communism.

[Judi Lynn]

21. There's a Cuban "exile" who makes the rounds of message boards

who claims to be a Canadian. One of his incarnations was, among so many, "First Cowboy." He is always easy to spot because he speaks from the perspective of an over-focused, right-wing, violence-favoring Miami gusano who labels everyone else "Castro lovers," "Castro apologists," and probably "Castro humpers." Sad.

On edit:

To soothe the frayed nerves of any possible Miami Cuban "exile" or his/her offspring who miss a touch of home, here's a photo of the American supported brutal, murderous Fulgencio Batista, sampling a delicious lychee nut at his estate:

[Screaming Lord Byron]

22. I'm sorry, I don't get it. I don't like Castro

So I must be some sort of crazed Cuban exile nut-case? Am I not allowed my own viewpoint?

[Say_What]

23. "Am I not allowed my own viewpoint?" BWAHAHAHAHA

Sure. If you allow others theirs instead of accusing them of *pandering to Castro* like some Gusano from Calle Ocho.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

25. Where do I suggest that I can't let you have your own viewpoint?

[htuttle]

27. Post #2

Unless you meant, "You can have your own viewpoint, but keep it to yourself..."

[Screaming Lord Byron]

28. That was my suggestion. Not an order.

[Judi Lynn]

19. If you support the Cuban people

you may as well allow them to live in peace, without continuing the load of hardship from the U.S. gummint, and the still-active program of violence from the Cuban "exile" community.

Do you stand at odds with the C.I.A. in its findings?

(snip) The CIA believes there are many reasons Cubans are content to remain in their homeland. Some don’t
want to be separated from home, family and friends. Some fear they would never be able to return, and still
others just fear change in general. Officials also say there is a reservoir of loyalty to Fidel Castro and, as in
the case of Juan Miguel Gonzalez, to the Communist Party.

U.S. officials say they no longer regard Cuba as a totalitarian state with aggressive policies toward its people,
but instead an authoritarian state, where the public can operate within certain bounds — just not push the envelope.
More important, Cuban media and Cuban culture long ago raised the banner of nationalism above that of
Marxism.
The intelligence community says the battle over Elian has presented Castro with a “unique opportunity” to
enhance that nationalism.
There is no indication, U.S. officials say, of any nascent rebellion about to spill into the streets, no great
outpouring of support for human rights activists in prison. In fact, there are fewer than 100 activists on the island
and a support group of perhaps 1,000 more, according to U.S. officials. (snip/...)

http://www.rose-hulman.edu/~delacova/cuba/loyal.htm

I would look for them to slant facts favoring the 40+ years of intense economic, psychological, and subversive warfare, but it doesn't look like their official position.

[Judi Lynn]

29. You tend to find the loudest Cuba hysterics are usually the ones

who don't actually know anything about the way the Cuban government works. A lot of them are people who ran off from Cuba, afraid of retaliation from the Cuban community when Batista's corrupt, vicious government fell, and THEY certainly wouldn't have any worthwhile understanding of Cuban government, WOULD THEY? Nor would their children, unless they either went there and found out, or in someway tried to acquire what their educations had not given them.

Propaganda flourishes ONLY when people refuse to educate themselves. Often bright, alert, conscious people can grasp, through recognition of patterns and awareness of the lack of real intelligence in the propaganda, that what they have been told may be bogus. You can start helping yourself by taking the time to learn about Cuba. Here's a quick, helpful article:

(snip)The Cuban political system is based on a foundation of local
elections. Each urban neighborhood and rural village and area is
organized into a "circumscription," consisting generally of 1000 to 1500
voters. The circumscription meets regularly to discuss neighborhood or
village problems. Each three years, the circumscription conducts
elections, in which from two to eight candidates compete. The nominees
are not nominated by the Communist Party or any other organizations. The
nominations are made by anyone in attendance at the meetings, which
generally have a participation rate of 85% to 95%. Those nominated are
candidates for office without party affiliation. They do not conduct
campaigns as such. A one page biography of all the candidates is
widely-distributed. The nominees are generally known by the voters, since
the circumscription is generally not larger than 1500 voters. If no
candidate receives 50% of the votes, a run-off election is held. Those
elected serve as delegates to the Popular Councils, which are intermediary
structures between the circumscription and the Municipal Assembly. Those
elected also serve simultaneously as delegates to the Municipal Assembly.
The delegates serve in the Popular Councils and the Municipal Assemblies
on a voluntary basis without pay, above and beyond their regular
employment.


The Municipal Assemblies elect the chief executives of the
Municipality, who have supervision over the various ministries, such as
health and education, within the Municipality. The Municipal Assemblies
also elect an electoral commission, which develops a slate of candidates
for the Provincial Assembly for ratification by the voters in the
province. The Provincial Assemblies have responsibilities in the Province
which parallel those of the Municipal Assembly in the Municipality,
including electing an electoral commission which develops a slate of
candidates for the National Assembly for ratification by the voters in the
nation. The National Assembly is the legislative branch, and as such it
makes the laws. It also elects the President of the Council of State, who
appoints a cabinet and makes a government. The President of the Council
of State is Fidel Castro, a position to which he has been re-elected
since, I believe, 1975, when the Constitution was established.


The role of the Communist Party in the political process is very
different from what I had previously thought. The Cuban Communist Party
is not an electoral party. It does not nominate or support candidates for
office. Nor does it make laws or select the head of state. These roles
are played by the national assembly, which is elected by the people, and
for which membership in the Communist Party is not required. Most members
of the national, provincial, and municipal assemblies are members of the
Communist Party, but many are not, and those delegates and deputies who
are party members are not selected by the party but by the people in the
electoral process. The party is not open to anyone to join. About
fifteen percent of adults are party members. Members are selected by the
party in a thorough process that includes interviews with co-workers and
neighbors. Those selected are considered model citizens. They are
selected because they are viewed as strong supporters of the revolution;
as hard and productive workers; as people who are well-liked and respected
by their co-workers and neighbors; as people who have taken leadership
roles in the various mass organizations of women, students, workers, and
farmers; as people who take seriously their responsibilities as spouses
and parents and family members; and as people who have "moral" lives, such
as avoiding excessive use of alcohol or extramarital relations that are
considered scandalous. The party is viewed as the vanguard of the
revolution. It makes recommendations concerning the future development of
the revolution, and it criticizes tendencies it considers
counterrevolutionary. It has enormous influence in Cuba, but its
authority is moral, not legal. The party does not make laws or elect the
president. These tasks are carried out by the National Assembly, which is
elected by the people.


Prior traveling to Cuba, I had heard that the Cuban Communist Party
is the only political party and that in national elections the voters are
simply presented with a slate of candidates, rather than two or more
candidates and/or political parties from which to choose. These two
observations are correct. But taken by themselves, they given a very
misleading impression. They imply that the Cuban Communist Party develops
the slate, which in fact it does not do. Since the slate makers are named
by those who are elected, the ratification of the slate by the voters is
simply the final step in a process that begins with the voters. The
reason given for using a slate rather than presenting voters with a choice
at this stage was that the development of the slate ensures that all
sectors (such as women, workers, farmers, students, representative of
important social service agencies in the jurisdiction, etc.) are
represented.


(snip/...)

http://csf.colorado.edu/mail/wsn/98.jan-apr/0186.html

[Screaming Lord Byron]

30. What am I being hysterical about?

I have no connection to Cuba. Can't even speak a word of Spanish, myself.

[Say_What]

32. Whining better describes it--

whine, whine, whine. Start a flame war that didn't go the way you expected it to go and then you whine and whine and whine. :spank:

[Screaming Lord Byron]

34. What flame war? I merely expressed an opinion.

I didn't realise you couldn't respect another viewpoint on the matter.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

33. I'm a member of Amnesty International. Why don't you look at our web site

For info on Cuba. You'll see the term "massive crackdown" fairly often.

[Judi Lynn]

38. Have you ever checked the A-I reports on the U.S.?

Terms like "police brutality," "Torture and ill-treatment in prisons and jails," "cruel and inhuman treatment" appear without flourish.

Here's a peculiar one:

Juvenile detainees


• There were reports that Native American children in the Pine Hills School Youth Correctional Facility, aged from 14 to 17, were subjected to frequent bouts of pepper spray by staff. Documentation revealed during court proceedings in February showed that some youths at the facility, including several with histories of mental illness, had been sprayed as many as 15 times each.
  
  
• There were allegations that girls held at the Chalkville Campus, a juvenile facility for girls operated by the Department of Youth Services in Alabama, were tortured and ill-treated. Allegations levelled against the authorities included rape, resulting in at least two girls becoming pregnant; pressure on girls to have abortions; sexual abuse and assault of inmates; beatings; punitive solitary confinement; and lack of adequate medical care.
  

~~~~ link ~~~~

Don't you read anything in the newspapers? Haven't you heard of things like the story in the last year in Florida of some U.S. prison guards who stomped an Cuban-American to death in a jail there?
A witness to the event was just killed in the last few weeks, on the "outside" after he was realeased.

THESE are the things Amnesty International looks into.

You think it might be more important to reflect on the rounding up of some U.S. paid Cuban "dissidents" and "independent journalists" who had been carefully, and patiently indentified after some Cuban undercover people worked with them for YEARS.

Do you have any idea what would have been the fate of people in this position had this group of people been U.S. citizens, operating in the same manner, taking money from a foreign government? No biggie, right? There is a law against it.

Here's a good article you apparently missed:

"'Torture, plain and simple': Amnesty International reports abuse in women's prisons" (Amnesty International reported on this)
http://www.cnn.com/US/9903/04/amnesty.women.prison/

"Report criticises United States for bad example on human rights."
http://www.amnesty.org.au/airesources/press-03-08-19.html

"U.S. accused of human rights abuses in prisons

Inmate at Rikers Island prison
October 6, 1998
Web posted at: 12:58 a.m. EDT (0458 GMT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- For the first time ever, Amnesty International is launching a worldwide campaign against a Western nation: the United States.

Amnesty International accuses the U.S. prison system of a "persistent and widespread pattern of human rights violations."
(snip)

(snip) And Amnesty says the United States sometimes executes people for crimes they committed as children. That puts the United States in the same category as Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Yemen.

Amnesty International alleges that 3,500 child convicts are being held in adult U.S. prisons in violation of an international convention on civil rights.

Other violations cited by the Amnesty report include police brutality, sexual abuse of female prisoners and the mistreatment of people seeking asylum. It cited cases of asylum seekers who were detained more than a year alongside convicted criminals. (snip/)
http://www.cnn.com/US/9810/05/human.rights/

Here ya go!

(snip) Amnesty Wants U.S. to Review Cuba Embargo

Associated Press

Tuesday, June 03, 2003

NEW YORK - Amnesty International wants the U.S. government to rethink its embargo against Cuba, a measure the group said has not helped improve human rights.

"We recognize that the embargo is an ineffective mechanism for promoting human rights, and the organization is gravely concerned that in some situations it has contributed to abuses," said Dr. William F. Schulz, executive director of Amnesty International USA.

http://www.cubacentral.com/article.asp?ID=50

[Bridget Burke]

6. You're Canadian....

Fine country. But, doesn't it "pander" to Castro? I've heard that Canadians can even vacation there.

[Minstrel Boy]

8. Regretably, the only pandering Canada does

is to the Imperial States of America.

A nation can do much worse than enjoy friendly relations with Cuba.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

9. We should be able to travel where we want.

But Cuba is still not a democracy.

[Say_What]

10. If I was self-centered enough to worry about what the REICH WING

thinks, I'd bury my head in the sand with the rest of the brainwashed and Bushwacked sheeple.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

24. Don't worry about it. Most Neocons think Canada's communist

because of socialized medicine.

Charlie Chaplin was a commie too. Scary, eh?

[Say_What]

15. Learn from Cuba, says World Bank

<clips>

Washington, 30 Apr 2001 (IPS) - World Bank President James Wolfensohn Monday extolled the Communist government of President Fidel Castro for doing “a great job” in providing for the social welfare of the Cuban people.

His remarks followed Sunday’s publication of the Bank’s 2001 edition of ‘World Development Indicators’ (WDI), which showed Cuba as topping virtually all other poor countries in health and education statistics.

It also showed that Havana has actually improved its performance in both areas despite the continuation of the US trade embargo against it, and the end of Soviet aid and subsidies for the Caribbean island more than ten years ago.

“Cuba has done a great job on education and health,” Wolfensohn told reporters at the conclusion of the annual spring meetings of the Bank and the International Monetary Fund (IMF). “They have done a good job, and it does not embarrass me to admit it.”

http://www.twnside.org.sg/title/learn.htm

---

From the CIA Factbook

Cuba:

Infant mortality rate: total: 7.15 deaths/1,000 live births

Life expectancy at birth: total population: 76.8 years

Literacy: total population: 97%

HIV/AIDS - adult prevalence rate: less than 0.1% (2001 est.)

HIV/AIDS - people living with HIV/AIDS: 3,200 (2001 est.)

HIV/AIDS - deaths: 120 (2001 est.)

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html#People

[Judi Lynn]

16. Here's the statue

link to large photo:
http://www.estudiocaos.com/molodoi64/lennon.htm





Interesting article, Say_What. It was interesting to see the urge to spin when the reporter found it signifigant to mention the Beatles music was banned in the '60's, and '70's. (Presumably it slipped his mind that in the American south, some towns built bonfires, and threw tons of Beatles records on them, and that there was a nation-wide upheaval of rage when some slow-witted people believed John Lennon was claiming he was more important than Christ. These anti-Beatles spasms went on and on and on in the U.S.) Apparently the concept of change is a hard one to grasp for some reporters, eh? Someone should ask him if he still dispises broccoli or some other vegetable which made him wild as a kid.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

26. Look. I'm big on Human Rights and I don't like one-party states.

For my crimes I get called a pussy and it's implied I'm some sort of Cuban-exile disruptor. Why?

[Say_What]

31. If it looks like a duck, walks like duck, and quacks like duck

then guess what?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

35. What are you talking about?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

36. So, you're seriously suggestion that because I disagree

I am not left-wing and don't belong on DU. Why so defensive of Castro?

[TahitiNut]

37. Locking

Please read "Personal Attacks, Civility, and Respect." The discussion in this thread has become counterproductive, focusing on messengers instead of either messages or the LBN story itself. Thus, I'm locking this thread.

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation,
TahitiNut - DU moderator