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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 12:04 PM
Original message
Algae power-exhaust scrubber produces BIO-FUEL as byproduct
Isaac Berzin is a big fan of algae. The tiny, single-celled plant, he says, could transform the world's energy needs and cut global warming. Fed a generous helping of CO2-laden emissions, courtesy of the power plant's exhaust stack, the algae grow quickly even in the wan rays of a New England sun. The cleansed exhaust bubbles skyward, but with 40% less CO2 (a larger cut than the Kyoto treaty mandates) and another bonus: 86% less nitrous oxide. Being a good Samaritan on air quality usually costs a bundle. But Berzin's pitch is one hard-nosed utility executives and climate-change skeptics might like: It can make a tidy profit.

GreenFuel has already garnered $11 million in venture capital funding and is conducting a field trial at a 1,000 megawatt power plant owned by a major southwestern power company. Next year, GreenFuel expects two to seven more such demo projects scaling up to a full pro- duction system by 2009.

For his part, Berzin calculates that just one 1,000 megawatt power plant using his system could produce more than 40 million gallons of biodiesel and 50 million gallons of ethanol a year. That would require a 2,000-acre "farm" of algae-filled tubes near the power plant. There are nearly 1,000 power plants nationwide with enough space nearby for a few hundred to a few thousand acres to grow algae and make a good profit, he says.

In 1990, Sheehan's NREL program calculated that just 15,000 square miles of desert (the Sonoran desert in California and Arizona is more than eight times that size) could grow enough algae to replace nearly all of the nation's current diesel requirements.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2006-01-10-algae-powerplants_x.htm
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atomic-fly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. You had me @ Algae power-exhaust!
I love reading about this kind of technology, thanks for the link.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. me too! K & R
:dem:
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wordpix2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
46. and ME!!!
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. Here's a related algae topic
Researchers have found a metabolic switch in algae that allows the primitive plants to produce hydrogen gas -- a discovery that could ultimately result in a vast source of cheap, pollution-free fuel.

Hydrogen, which can be used as a clean-burning fuel in cars and power plants, is virtually limitless in availability, because it is part of the water molecule. It is a candidate to become the world's primary fuel in coming decades.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2000/01/29/MN76411.DTL&type=printable
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yup.
Hopefully when we get a Democrat in office we can earsmark 1 Billion a year for implementation of these various techs. I have no problem throwing money at new power scrubbers that make energy sources.

Probably is that it isn't republican cronies that would get this money. So no funding under a Republican.
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TreeMonkey Donating Member (30 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Oh yea?
If this is going to be the future, then you KNOW eventually, BP, Conoco,and all the big oil cos (who have all the $-thank you oil buddy Shrubbola, ohhhh $3.00 a gallon and only a wimpering of complaints!)
will do development on it...Oil will have to go over$80.00 a barrel for this to happen. China is a big problem with oil also, but Asia might go for development if there is big $$ in it.
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I don't think you read the article.
This is a scrubber that power plants would install that would go from being just an expense, to a profit center. This has nothing to do with the cost of oil. The bio fuel is a bi product of the scrubbing and therefore basically free.

I'd like to know where you get your math on $80 a barrel.

But thanks for barfing out the typical pessimistic conventional wisdom on alternative fuels.
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Hydrogen is hard to store and transport.
We put part of it through a fuel cell on site and use the electricity to combine the rest of it with carbon dioxide to make other more easily transportable fuels.
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jilln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. thanks for posting
I had not heard of this possibility before
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. Sounds good...
and * will try to kill it IMHO....
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. A kick for this post. Such a happy thought - using ingenuity instead
of going, "Well, we have to invade other countries. We have to spy. We have to torture. We have no choice. We need the oil."

When did we have the debate? Did I miss it? I like this alternative better. Let's use our wealth and ingenuity to change our dependence. Let's use our political will to not let the Texass Oil Mob destroy our country and everything good it ever stood for. Let's not let those vets die in vain. Let's take responsibility for our need for energy by finding a legal way of providing it for ourselves.

President Gore would have funded it. President Kerry would have. President Bush's policies are an environmental, economic and ethical disaster.
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Yeah.
It's almost like you have to link campaign finance to clean energy.

We know that Exxon and Enron wrote the Energy Bill afterall.
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. Imagine if the funds for the Iraqi War went to projects like this
:wow:
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Chemical Bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. With Iraq war money we could have replaced all the oil used...
AND given everyone a free biodiesel powered car.

Bill
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. but how would that help the oil companies? That seems to trump everything
else, even our survival as a nation.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. Good post!
Kicked and nominated

:kick:
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WePurrsevere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
12. This sounds like an excellent alternate and a twofer...
cleaner air for and a way to help fuel America without being dependant on outside sources and finite oil supplies.

There are so many innovative approaches being develeoped and coming to the attention of the public. It's wonderful and I look forward to a "Greener" future once we get these oil barons and buddies voted (and perhaps impeached) out of OUR government.
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smiley_glad_hands Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
13. How do I invest in this.n/t
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hankthecrank Donating Member (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
15. Very Nice Very Nice
Kicked and nominated
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-12-06 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
16. Now I can go to bed happy. What a concept. Something that could
solve global warming and peak oil and oil wars.
Next time I call somebody "pond scum" it will be as a compliment!
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
17. A little cold water - DOES IT WORK?
Has anyone actually tried this thing on a real-world power plant? Or is it only a laboratory experiment? There are lots of things out in the real world that can kill promising experiments; has anyone really tried it, seen if the system sustains itself without costly monitoring or additional chemicals, et cetera?

If not, than this is probably like one of those mid-1960's Popular Science articles that assured us that we'd be driving 300 miles per hour in computer-controlled hovercraft by 2000. A pipe dream.
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Some things are very possible,
but sometimes not very practical. If someone had set their mind to it, we probably could be going 300 mph in a computer-controlled hovercraft, but, of course, that would be a disaster and totally impractical for everyone to be zipping around like that. The same thing for personal helicopters. To make something like that even thinkable, huge amounts of money would have to be poured into an infrastructure to support it. Not likely to happen.

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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. What are you talking about?
This takes something that power plants are going to have to do anyway (install scrubbers) and instead of being just an expense, it turns it into profit center.
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
44. You weren't talking to me, were you?
I think you meant your response to post #17.
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. RTFA
If you had RTFA you'd know there is a test plant at MIT, and they have millions in funding. This isn't some pie in the sky pipe dream.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
20. The concept can be extended
Edited on Fri Jan-13-06 11:55 AM by GliderGuider
This is an example of the zero-waste industrial clusters championed by organizations like ZERI.

The interesting additions to this cluster are a commercial pig farm and a mushroom farm. The pig waste is used as fertilizer for the algae which is also being fed CO2 from the power plant. Following biodiesel extraction the post-processed algae is used as substrate for the mushrooms. Following the mushroom production, the remaining algal substrate which has been further processed by the mushrooms is turned back into pig feed. The internal wastes from each industrial component (carbon dioxide, pig manure, algal waste and used-up mushroom substrate) are each the input to another component, thus reducing direct waste to very low levels. The human-usable outputs are power, biodiesel, pork and mushrooms.

The problem with this approach is it still involves mining and burning coal, so it's not carbon neutral. It merely diffuses the carbon out into the environment more slowly and in more forms. It's really only a useful idea if we end up having to burn coal (this example, I mean, not the whole concept of zero-waste industrial clusters, which is a very very very good idea).

Be that as it may, I'm glad this idea is being championed with someone who has more clout than I do :-)
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Does it have to be carbon neutral to be a step in the right direction?
Edited on Fri Jan-13-06 12:04 PM by iconoclastNYC
Even Kyoto is a modest goal...to reduce carbon emissions to 1990 levels. Because there is an economic benefit to be derived from the carbon scrubbing technology (it produces a valuable commodity as a byproduct) it means that it will have a better chance of being built. Plus it helps limit fuel imports.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. We need to plan now for carbon neutrality
We always get less than we ask for, and if we are satisfied with asking for interim measures we will be screwed in 20 years.

Personally, I'm horrified by the thought of increasing coal use. If we put the money and skull-sweat into renewables we might be able to soften the Peak Oil downslope without damaging the world. I worry that using more coal will simply guarantee that our kids inherit a toxic cesspool. I also worry that the conventional energy inustry in general, and the coal guys in particular, are so powerful and their worldview so entrenched that we will just keep barreling down the hydrocarbon highway until we run out of pavement. Humans are monstrous creatures of habit.

The problem is too big for us to meekly accept modest solutions. The convergence of oil depletion and global warming has all the makings of humanity's perfect storm. We need to start thinking a little bit bigger than Kyoto.
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
38. Then you should agree that this system is beautiful.
It mitigates two problems at once....carbon from burning coal is sequestered and it makes biofuel that replaces imported oil.

We're not going to get to carbon neutral overnight. It's going to take tons of tweaks to get there. This is a great first step. I don't know why you are negative about it.
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Ezlivin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
24. So as long as we have oil and NG for power plants, this will work?
I love the idea of bio-fuels, but what is the EROI (Energy Return On Investment)? In other words, how many barrels of oil or cubic feet of NG are input and how many barrels of bio-fuel is output?

I hope this is not like ethanol generation, which is a net-energy loss.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Biodiesel is positive EROEI
The numbers are slippery, but the current estimate is 2:1 to 3:1 using field crops. The problem with using food crops is twofold - you take a lot arable land out of food production, and the crops used (rapeseed and soybeans primarily) are energy-intensive crops. Algal biodiedsel solves the first problem because it can be produced on waste land (desert is best), and the yields can be much higher - 15,000 gal/acre compared to 150 gal/acre for rapeseed.

Growing algae requires significantly less energy input, because there's no plowing, planting, weeding, spraying etc., and you can harvest a much more oil-dense crop without using tractors or combines. Siting the algae farm as suggested, in conjunction with fertilizer and CO2 supplies, makes it even more energy efficient while reducing the need for artificial nitrate fertilizers and providing additional pollution reduction benefits.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. don't we have crop surpluses in US, and aren't Third World farmers having
a hard time because we dump our surpluses on them, so they can't farm and make a profit?
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. The US doesn't have enough of a surplus to be a factor
at least not for the large-scale fuel production required to replace the required amounts of oil. Dumping has more to do with acricultural subsidies than with actual supply. The thing is, given that the world population is still expanding (another 1.5 billion people, or 20% in the next 20 years) it seems criminally stupid to turn food into car fuel if we have any other options.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. it should be in the mix, but not the total solution
hybrids, mass transit, and renewables like wind and solar would help too.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. You bet.
We need a multi-factorial approach to the problem. Mass transit, renewables and biofuels, but most especially efficiency and conservation.

I'm more dubious about hybrids for one main reason. Always remember that this isn't just an American problem. It's global. You won't see a Prius in every Chinese or Indian driveway. The major contributors to the solution (if there is one) will be those approaches and technologies that can be applied universally. Hybrids will remain a niche American/European/Japanese solution.

As far as coal goes, my biggest fear is China. They are faced with enormous population pressure along with rapidly rising per-capita energy demand, and they have a brazilian tonnes of coal. The simplest solution for them is to simply burn it and live with the environmental consequences...
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. a car solution for Third World (and here) that's low tech:
It runs on compressed air. It's hard to think of something simpler or cleaner. You don't even have to worry about disposing of the batteries.








Home page:

http://www.theaircar.com/


BBC News stories:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2281011.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/988265.stm
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. How do you compress the air?
Edited on Fri Jan-13-06 05:02 PM by iconoclastNYC
Probably on fossil fuels.....Also...what happens in a crash? Explosion?

The biggest problem with car fuel is switching the fueling infastructure over, that's why biodiesel is a good interim solution.

Something that i read today said that diesel is 30% more efficient. I wonder how many MPG a biodiesel hybrid would get.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. anything you can pump at home can use on or off grid electric generation
so the "fueling" or charging issues are the same. You could do it at home or at a "gas" station that had the equipment.

Come to think of it, in a pinch EVERY garage has an air compressor don't they?


Compressed air would be a hell of a lot safer in a crash than gas or even batteries.

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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. How do you figure?
It's highly pressurized. Could explode in a crash......flying metal isn't exactly safe.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. they crash tested it and air just leaks out
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. About that NG
NG is going to hit a global peak and start declining in the near future as well. Later than oil, but not too much later. When it does, it will deplete faster than oil because of its lower viscosity - it's a gas, so it flows out fo the rocks more easily than oil.

The USA is a net importer of 3.5 trillion cubic feet of NG per year, with a total consumption of 22.5 trillion cubic feet. 15% of American consumption is imported. If you want to increase the use of NG for electrical power, you will need to import more, because US production is maxed out. From here on, the USA will have to rely purely on imports for any increase in oil or gas fired power generating capacity.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. yep--next someone will mention coal and nuclear--anything that big
business can monopolize and use to choke money out of us.
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Ezlivin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. I knew that
And please don't tell me that I sound like that petulant Bush when I said that.

:)

I'm fully up-to-date on Peak Oil/Gas and I fear for our future. (Naturally I'm taking steps to prepare myself and my family, but steps no so large as to alarm my neighbors. No windmills in the backyard. Yet...)
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. Ethanol is made from corn.
This is made from algea. This is not using NG as a feedstock...it's using exhaust from a powerplant....just the exhaust.
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
25. Well, I did RTFA, and this is so cool! Thank you iconoclastNYC
We could all use a dose of optimism in these dark days. From the link:

After the CO2 is soaked up like a sponge, the algae is harvested daily. From that harvest, a combustible vegetable oil is squeezed out: biodiesel for automobiles. Berzin hands a visitor two vials — one with algal biodiesel, a clear, slightly yellowish liquid, the other with the dried green flakes that remained. Even that dried remnant can be further reprocessed to create ethanol, also used for transportation.

. . .

In 1990, Sheehan's NREL program calculated that just 15,000 square miles of desert (the Sonoran desert in California and Arizona is more than eight times that size) could grow enough algae to replace nearly all of the nation's current diesel requirements.

"I've had quite a few phone calls recently about it," says Mr. Sheehan. "This is not an outlandish idea at all."


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slor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
42. Here is some video...
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