Challenge to Bush ("Faith-Based") Initiative Reinstated

[jefferson_dem]

Challenge to Bush Initiative Reinstated
By RYAN J. FOLEY, Associated Press Writer

A group can sue the federal government over claims that President Bush's faith-based initiative is an unconstitutional endorsement of religion, a federal appeals court ruled.

A three-judge panel of the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals on Friday reinstated the lawsuit brought by the Freedom From Religion Foundation. The group claims Bush's program, which helps religious organizations get government funding to provide social services, violates the separation of church and state.

"Bush says this is constitutional, but it's never been tried by the courts. So we're pleased," said Annie Laurie Gaylor, co-president of the foundation, said Saturday.

Bush sidestepped Congress by issuing executive orders to create the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives and similar centers in 10 federal agencies during his first term. He said the goal was to help religious and community groups compete for federal funding to fight poverty, substance abuse and other social problems.

<SNIP>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060114/ap_on_go_pr_wh/faith_based_lawsuit

[pinerow]

1. Yeehoo...signs of sanity...

nt

[MissWaverly]

2. You have made my day!

that's the best news I have heard for a long time, god bless them every one. no more
money for Pat Robertson and his wacko threats. Woo Hoo!

[kikiek]

3. You made my day too. Hopefully will end the repug buying of "faith" votes.

[Coastie for Truth]

4. And Bushie/Brownie were trying to give more Fed Money to the

Salvation Army during Katrina---

Doctrines:

1. We Believe that the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments were given by inspiration of God; and that only they constitute the divine rule of Christian faith and practice.
2. We Believe that there is only one God who is infinitely Perfect - the Creator, Preserver and Governor of all things - and who is the only proper object of religious worship.
3. We Believe that there are three persons in the Godhead - the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost - undivided in essence and co-equal in power and glory.
4. We Believe that in the person of Jesus Christ the divine and human natures are united, so that he is truly and properly God and truly and properly man.
5. We Believe that our first parents were created in a state of innocence, but by their disobedience they lost their purity and happiness, and that in consequence of their fall all men have become sinners, totally depraved, and as such are justly exposed to the wrath of God.
6. We Believe that the Lord Jesus Christ has, by his suffering and death, made an atonement for the whole world so that whosoever will may be saved.
7. We Believe that repentance towards God, faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, and regeneration (being born again) by the Holy Spirit are necessary to salvation.
8. We Believe that we are justified by grace through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ and that he that believes has the witness in himself.
9. We Believe that continuance in a state of salvation depends upon continued obedient faith in Christ.
10. We Believe that it is the privilege of all believers to be wholly sanctified, and that their whole spirit and soul and body may be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thessalonians 5:23)
11. We Believe in the immortality of the soul; in the resurrection of the body; in the general judgment at the end of the world; in the eternal happiness of the righteous; and in the endless punishment of the wicked.

Often classified within the taxonomy of Christian denominations as a Methodist faith community, The Salvation Army has always seen itself primarily as a Christian church.

The Salvation Army has come under attack for what some people see as discrimination in hiring and for its requirements on how employees should behave. Despite the tax breaks it receives as a registered charity, and its government funding (about 11 percent of total revenues, in the form of grants and payments for services), it has a stated policy of "discrimination" against applicants and employees whose faith or sexual orientation are not acceptable to The Salvation Army. The Army's position is that because it is a church, Section VII of the US Civil Rights Act of 1964 explicitly guarantees its rights to discriminate in hiring.

In a recent case, the New York Federal Court ruled that organization could use religious criteria in its hiring; that ruling is being appealed by the New York Civil Liberties Union. Other issues in the lawsuit by 19 current and former employees are still under consideration by the trial court.

The State of New York has proposed legislation that requires businesses to offer health benefits to same-sex partners of employees. The Salvation Army opposes this policy and has threatened to close its soup kitchens and shelters across New York.

The Red Cross may be too closely tied to whoever the incumbent President is (that's the law) - But the Salvation Army is a CHURCH (that's its charter)

[anitar1]

13. * was pushing Red Cross, Salvation Army and

Roberson's charity after Katrina. I saw it on the TV screen many times. I would not give a dime to those 3.

[greiner3]

17. The salvation navy sucks! n/t

[napi21]

5. There's something else that's interesting about this "faith based funding"

I have several relatives who are very involved in different churches. One is a minister, the others are volunteer or paid workers. I've specifically asked each of them if they or their organizations have applied for any federal funding. EACH of them said NO!!!! I asked why? They all told me it was because there are strings attached, and they want to be free to operate their religious groups as they see fit WITHOUT federal strings!

I guess I can't say these people speak for all or even most authentic religious groups, but I bet there are many like them!

[Flabbergasted]

8. Yeah its not popular with churches

Despite strings (which I had not heard about) but some pastors don't believe its biblical to accept money from the govenment. They say it should come from members.

I'm worried about Alito in this regard.

[hang a left]

9. Do you have any idea what kind of strings they were referring to?

I would be interested in knowing. Thanks. Recommended. Nice to see it making it's way through the courts. I can't even imagine this being constitutional.

[napi21]

10. Here are a few reasons. The churches don't want to abandon their goals.

Another problem is helping the faith-based organizations preserve their distinctive character. As I argued in an article for the Texas Review of Law & Politics, when government funds faith-based social-service providers, it risks destroying the very thing it seeks to promote if the organizations must secularize themselves in order to receive the money. Stanley Carlson-Thies has observed that, although the Bush administration's goal is to avoid precisely this difficulty by implementing regime changes, many faith-based organizations still opt not to participate because they do not wish to limit expressions of their faith to conform to the law. A voucher program could alleviate some of these problems, as indirect aid has fewer legal constraints than direct aid, but Carlson-Thies reports that little progress has been made in this area.

http://www.taemag.com/issues/articleID.18030/article_detail.asp


Mr. Ashcroft insists that Charitable Choice prevents coercive religion by requiring states to contract with secular service providers as well, allowing welfare recipients to pick the program that works best for them-and accept the terms of that program. Additionally, a crucial but sometimes overlooked clause in the law prohibits service providers from using government money to "proselytize" those who turn to them for aid. That means that federal funds may not be used to pay for worship services or direct evangelism.

Ironically, the anti-proselytizing clause has made almost no one happy. Secularizing groups such as People for the American Way and the ACLU are not convinced it will protect people from religious strong-arming. Meanwhile, some Christians wondered how any faith-based organization can agree to muzzle the gospel message in exchange for government money.

http://www.leaderu.com/socialsciences/poverty.html

[hang a left]

12. Thanks napi....n/t

[Coastie for Truth]

19. I was on the Board of a Parochial School

and while we complied with all federal, state, and local laws, and had an affirmative action/equal opportunity program (faculty, staff, students, financial assistance)- we neither sought nor suggested government funding because of the strings.

[HuffleClaw]

6. oh good, but...

won't their newly neocon supreme court simply just rubber stamp it?

[Charlie Brown]

7. If it had been approved by Congress, maybe

This is a program that Bush created, which makes it legally hazy (the Executive authorizing federal funding for groups that have a blatant agenda of prosetylization has never come up before).

Even the "conservatives" would claim Bush overstepped his constitutional authority here. No telling how the SC will rule.

[Wordie]

11. Very good news, but now we have to think WWAD

(What Would Alito Do?)

[robbedvoter]

14. Yup. Just in time for him to catch. And will the missus cry?

[Toots]

15. Will this be the case that showcases Alito?

We all know how the right wing Extreme Court will rule on this. Bush* can do what ever he wishes "we are at war".......

[greiner3]

16. Damn;

And just when I was about to start Steve's religion and get me some of that cash. :sarcasm:

[jazzjunkysue]

18. Anything in the bible about stoning killers? Liars? Bombers? Intel fixers?

Even if there is, I'll settle for a simple impeachment. Well, ok. One or two stones.

[jamesinca]

21. There are a few things

The big one is Thou shall not kill, that is one of the big 10. Psalms 50:16 says But to the wicked, God says: What right have you to recite my laws or take my covenant on your lips? You hate my instruction and cast my words behind you... These things you have done and I kept silent; you thought I was altogether like you. But I will rebuke you and accuse you to your face. Consider this , you who forget God, or I will tear you to pieces, with none to rescue.

[rocktivity]

20. CUE THE VONAGE THEME!

But between this and Paul Hackett calling Pat Robertson "a religious fanatic," perhaps "Halleujah!" would be more appropriate!

:woohoo:
rocknation