NYT: Spy Agency Data After Sept. 11 Led F.B.I. to Dead Ends

[deminks]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/17/politics/17spy.html

WASHINGTON, Jan. 16 - In the anxious months after the Sept. 11 attacks, the National Security Agency began sending a steady stream of telephone numbers, e-mail addresses and names to the F.B.I. in search of terrorists. The stream soon became a flood, requiring hundreds of agents to check out thousands of tips a month.

But virtually all of them, current and former officials say, led to dead ends or innocent Americans.

F.B.I. officials repeatedly complained to the spy agency, which was collecting much of the data by eavesdropping on some Americans' international communications and conducting computer searches of foreign-related phone and Internet traffic, that the unfiltered information was swamping investigators. Some F.B.I. officials and prosecutors also thought the checks, which sometimes involved interviews by agents, were pointless intrusions on Americans' privacy.

As the bureau was running down those leads, its director, Robert S. Mueller III, raised concerns about the legal rationale for the eavesdropping program, which did not seek court warrants, one government official said. Mr. Mueller asked senior administration officials about "whether the program had a proper legal foundation," but ultimately deferred to Justice Department legal opinions, the official said.

[Canuckistanian]

1. Not only illegal, but totally disorganized

Now, where have I heard that phrase before??

[DoYouEverWonder]

7. And it wasted valuable time and resources

that should have been spent tracking real terrorists.

[ShockediSay]

2. If they paid attention to the leads BEFORE 9/11

but then you wudda needed a competent administration

THERE IS SO MUCH MORE STRENGTH IN INTEGRITY, HONESTY AND COMPETENCE

[Pirate Smile]

3. more

"But the results of the program looked very different to some officials charged with tracking terrorism in the United States. More than a dozen current and former law enforcement and counterterrorism officials, including some in the small circle who knew of the secret eavesdropping program and how it played out at the F.B.I., said the torrent of tips led them to few potential terrorists inside the country they did not know of from other sources and diverted agents from counterterrorism work they viewed as more productive.

"We'd chase a number, find it's a school teacher with no indication they've ever been involved in international terrorism - case closed," said one former FBI official, who was aware of the program and the data it generated for the bureau. "After you get a thousand numbers and not one is turning up anything, you get some frustration."

-snip-
But, along with several British counterterrorism officials, some of the officials questioned assertions by the Bush administration that the program was the key to uncovering a plot to detonate fertilizer bombs in London in 2004. The F.B.I. and other law enforcement officials also expressed doubts about the importance of the program's role in another case named by administration officials as a success in the fight against terrorism, an aborted scheme to topple the Brooklyn Bridge with a blow torch. Some officials said that in both cases, they had already learned of the plans through prisoner interrogations or other means.

-snip-
In response to the F.B.I. complaints, N.S.A. eventually began ranking its tips on a three-point scale, with 3 being the highest priority and 1 the lowest, the officials said. Some tips were considered so hot that they were carried by hand to top F.B.I. officials. But in bureau field offices, the N.S.A. material continued to be viewed as unproductive, prompting agents to joke that a new bunch of tips meant more "calls to Pizza Hut," one official, who supervised field agents, said.

[deminks]

4. Thanks, that paragraph really got to me

"We'd chase a number, find it's a school teacher ..."

[lyonn]

8. "more calls to the Pizza Hut" was that to check out the terrorist

or the pizza, nothing to see here type stuff. Sheesh

With this kind of info seeping out we may begin to feel like "terrorism" is bush.

[hang a left]

21. I think what that meant is that they wouldn't be making it home

for dinner anytime soon.

[rodeodance]

15. they mention at least a dozen in the FBI who knew of evesdropping prog.

....."But the results of the program looked very different to some officials charged with tracking terrorism in the United States. More than a dozen current and former law enforcement and counterterrorism officials, including some in the small circle who knew of the secret eavesdropping program and how it played out at the F.B.I., said the torrent of tips led them to few potential terrorists inside the country they did not know of from other sources and diverted agents from counterterrorism work they viewed as more productive.

[Rose Siding]

5. This is amazing, and exciting - more than a DOZEN anon sources

How timely, on this day, to read of some FBI reluctance in this operation. Some great quotes, too:

...in bureau field offices, the N.S.A. material continued to be viewed as unproductive, prompting agents to joke that a new bunch of tips meant more "calls to Pizza Hut," one official, who supervised field agents, said.
...
"This wasn't our program," an F.B.I. official said. "It's not our mess, and we're not going to clean it up."

[lyonn]

6. Well now, that is interesting

Would like to real whole article. NYT? Sounds like they may be trying to redeem themselves, a little bit maybe?

[savemefromdumbya]

9. Sibel Edmonds didn't find a dead end did she?

[ConcernedCanuk]

10. US intelligence - that's GOTTA be an oxymoron by now - -

.
.
.

if not just a complete fallacy

sheesh!

[deminks]

11. Smirky lies when he says this NSA program is a vital tool

snip

The law enforcement and counterterrorism officials said the program had uncovered no active Qaeda networks inside the United States planning attacks. "There were no imminent plots - not inside the United States," the former F.B.I. official said.

[Up2Late]

12. Reuters just picked this up too. One question, who goes to Jail? * or...

...his Justice Department lawyers? Because it seems like they might have it set up so that the DoJ Lawyers are the "fall guys."

<http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=10867582&src=rss/topNews>

[rodeodance]

13. so--in the end, the FBI had been convinced by WH that it was OK--I fear

this will happen also to members on the Senate hearning committee.


As the bureau was running down those leads, its director, Robert S. Mueller III, raised concerns about the legal rationale for the eavesdropping program, which did not seek court warrants, one government official said. Mr. Mueller asked senior administration officials about "whether the program had a proper legal foundation," but ultimately deferred to Justice Department legal opinions, the official said

[rodeodance]

14. and I am glad that the two lawsuits were filed-

[HuffleClaw]

16. funny how their abuse of power

didn't actually accomplish anything except to muck up the system.

[cantstandbush]

17. Where the hell is our Congress on this? Where are all those "law and

order Republicans who like nothing better than to chase down pot smokers? Where are the calls for impeachment for REAL high crimes and misdemeanors?

[LizW]

18. So they spied on people at least once removed from international calls?

"Suspected Al Qaeda Guy" calls John Q. Citizen in the United States. They get John Q. Citizen's phone number, and spy on all his calls to other people in the United States, apparently using a pen register. Then they turned all those numbers over to the FBI to follow up on.

Combine that with the Patriot Act's "sneak and peak" provisions, and you've got a recipe for a police state.

The mere fact that you received a call from John Q., and innocent person, could trigger a secret search of your home and computer. And apparently the FBI was just assuming that the NSA had gotten FISA warrants.

You have to wonder if the FBI arrested anyone in the United States for other crimes (say, having some marijuana) after the NSA spying tips led them to investigate that person. This could conceivably taint more than just "terrorism" cases. It could taint a wide array of other criminal cases.

[hang a left]

19. I am sure you have...

snip>

"I can say unequivocally that we have gotten information through this program that would not otherwise have been available," General Hayden said. The White House and the F.B.I. declined to comment on the program or its results.

snip>

[Gin]

20. sounds like a diversion from the real cause of 9-11.....this just

confirms my belief that 9-11 was a MIHOP.

[Catrina]

29. *lol* ~ notice he doesn't say it was information that led to anything of

importance. Of course they got info that would not have been available otherwise!! Like ordinary Americans' planning weddings or birthday parties.

If they have nothing to hide, they need to release the list of those who were spied on. Just saying 'trust us' won't work.

[niceypoo]

22. FBI disputed spy policy: Concerns over legality, worth of NSA evesdropping

WASHINGTON -- In the anxious months after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the National Security Agency began sending a steady stream of telephone numbers, e-mail addresses and names to the FBI in search of terrorists. The stream soon became a flood, requiring hundreds of agents to check out thousands of tips a month. But virtually all of them, according to current and former officials, led to dead ends or innocent Americans.

Some FBI officials and prosecutors also thought the checks, which sometimes involved interviews by agents, were pointless intrusions on Americans' privacy

The law enforcement and counterterrorism officials said no active al-Qaida networks planning attacks had been uncovered inside the United States by the program.

......good, more trial witnesses against Bush at the impeachment hearings.... The NSA and the FBI were both appaled by the policy....go figure

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/255930_spy17.html

[EFerrari]

23. Are they appalled or having they checked in with their lawyers?

:eyes:

[HereSince1628]

24. Bush/Cheney will argue the FBI doesn't have the whole story.

And that's perfectly true. They have none of the fabrications put together by the OSP.

[MrPrax]

25. In other words...

The FBI couldn't find any collaborative evidence supporting the 911 narrative either...amazing how the 'five Ws' were nailed days after the attack, but months and years of follow-up tips from the controling agency finds NO 'bit players', 'no networks' and no 'dinner invitations' that went unanswered, just ethnic and political targets.

But I am sure :eyes: America is still unsafe and the US requires NO justification of 'acts of war'

[superconnected]

26. The first place I would investigate, is a ranch in crawford.

Because like most crimes, I would look into who benefited most.

[MrPrax]

27. Yup...

without being too obvious...agreed, there probably is evidence we won't see that would put the final pieces of this puzzle into place.

Good to see that someone else uses simple 'consequentialism' as a viable investigative tool in politics...


:yourock:

[woodsprite]

28. Anybody wanna bet that the NSA was feeding the FBI bogus

info to make them look like they didn't know what they were doing, give them "busy work" to keep them out of the admins hair, or purposefully kept the real info from hands that could harm the perps?

Maybe my tinfoil hat is a bit tight this morning, but it seems that EVERYONE in the gov't couldn't possibly be bought with medals of freedom or big oil dollars. There's gotta be someone who can blow a hole in this story wider than you can float an oil tanker thru.

[Vyan]

30. NYT: NSA Spy data shared with FBI led to investigations of innocent people

The New York Times reports that far from being a "limited" program which "only focused on people with connections to al-Qaeda" - the NSA domestic spying has led to a massive influxing of information being fed to the FBI - enough to overwhelm and drown them into stagnation on their anti-terrorism efforts.

WASHINGTON, Jan. 16 - In the anxious months after the Sept. 11 attacks, the National Security Agency began sending a steady stream of telephone numbers, e-mail addresses and names to the F.B.I. in search of terrorists. The stream soon became a flood, requiring hundreds of agents to check out thousands of tips a month.

But virtually all of them, current and former officials say, led to dead ends or innocent Americans.

F.B.I. officials repeatedly complained to the spy agency that the unfiltered information was swamping investigators. The spy agency was collecting much of the data by eavesdropping on some Americans' international communications and conducting computer searches of phone and Internet traffic. Some F.B.I. officials and prosecutors also thought the checks, which sometimes involved interviews by agents, were pointless intrusions on Americans' privacy.

As the bureau was running down those leads, its director, Robert S. Mueller III, raised concerns about the legal rationale for a program of eavesdropping without warrants, one government official said. Mr. Mueller asked senior administration officials about "whether the program had a proper legal foundation," but deferred to Justice Department legal opinions, the official said.

President Bush has characterized the eavesdropping program as a "vital tool" against terrorism; Vice President Dick Cheney has said it has saved "thousands of lives."

But the results of the program look very different to some officials charged with tracking terrorism in the United States. More than a dozen current and former law enforcement and counterterrorism officials, including some in the small circle who knew of the secret program and how it played out at the F.B.I., said the torrent of tips led them to few potential terrorists inside the country they did not know of from other sources and diverted agents from counterterrorism work they viewed as more productive.

"We'd chase a number, find it's a schoolteacher with no indication they've ever been involved in international terrorism - case closed," said one former F.B.I. official, who was aware of the program and the data it generated for the bureau. "After you get a thousand numbers and not one is turning up anything, you get some frustration."

<snip>

In response to the F.B.I. complaints, the N.S.A. eventually began ranking its tips on a three-point scale, with 3 being the highest priority and 1 the lowest, the officials said. Some tips were considered so hot that they were carried by hand to top F.B.I. officials. But in bureau field offices, the N.S.A. material continued to be viewed as unproductive, prompting agents to joke that a new bunch of tips meant more "calls to Pizza Hut," one official, who supervised field agents, said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/17/politics/17spy.html?pagewanted=1

Vyan

[rodeodance]

31. like Steven's bridges to Nowhere. lost taxpayer $$