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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-16-06 10:45 PM
Original message
Cuba: Economic Growth Hand in Hand with Social Benefits
Cuba: Economic Growth Hand in Hand with Social Benefits
16-01-2006

The 11.8 percent growth in Cuba’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in 2005 —the highest recorded in Latin America and Caribbean during last year— is all the more significant for the general population because the resulting benefits are evenly spread due to the social nature of wealth distribution in Cuba.

The upswing in the economy does not mean that all of Cuba’s problems are solved. There are countless necessities that have accumulated as a result of the combined effects of the economic crisis of the 1990s, the tightening of the US blockade (which in 2005 alone caused direct losses worth some 1.8 billion dollars) and the erratic behavior of the world economy, with sudden rises in the price of oil and other essential commodities like food. Particularly damaging to the island was the impact of adverse weather conditions such as a prolonged drought and several hurricanes.

-

GROWTH NOT ALWAYS A SYNONYM OF DEVELOPMENT

Martinez, who is also the director of the CIEM, noted that historically the western schools of thought have exaggerated the significance of economic growth, portraying it as an automatic generator of development. A current example of the lack of such correspondence is the case of Mexico. In the years following the implementation of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), the Mexican agriculture sector has recorded growth, but this growth is entirely a result of the rise of maquiladoras (assembly plants in Mexico run by the United States or other foreign interests) and the increased presence of large US transnationals in Mexico. Meanwhile, approximately six million Mexican agricultural producers have been ruined and pushed out of the sector because of "free" trade practices and the country finds itself forced to import such traditional Mexican food staples as corn, an item that used to be locally produced in abundance.

As such, economic growth is associated with an unfair redistribution of revenue, the degradation of the environment and greater structural deformations in the economies; this is the current economic panorama of Latin America after two decades of free market and neo-liberal policies, Martinez stressed.

-

NO MACRO-ECONOMIC FETISHES

The growth of the Cuban GDP in 2005 has a concrete expression in the numerous social, educational and cultural programs and in countless other projects being implemented in key sectors of the economy under what in Cuba is known as the Battle of Ideas. The revamping of the public transportation system, improvements in social and community services, further development of tourism and increased exports are all reflections of the GDP growth, Vice Minister Alfonso Casanova said.


More here.

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newswolf56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-16-06 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. And the Bush Regime still claims (just as it did about the Iraqis)...
the Cuban people will rise up and greet a U.S. military invasion as "liberators."

Guess again, fascists! The Cuban people will rise up all right, but in a no pasaran resistance the intensity of which has not been seen since the Nazis invaded Russia.

Support the troops: oppose ANY U.S. invasion of Cuba.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-16-06 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. Untying their economy from sugar...they're finally reaping the rewards.
Having allies like Chavez helps too. Venezuela buys books from Cuba, Cuba sends doctors to Venezuela -- the payment terms are easy and they trust each other. It must make life easier.
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Ben Ceremos Donating Member (387 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Historically,
"democracies"don't wage wars...piffle. Luckily, socialist states that are dedicated to egalitarian economic development don't wage war on each other...Viva Chavez, Viva Fidel, Viva La Revolucion Socialista!!! Venceremos!!!
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 03:02 AM
Response to Original message
4. It was interesting being nudged to consider the massive prison
industry which has sprung up almost overnight. The numbers are simply horrendous. No wonder we have more people per capita than almost every other country. We have to feed the prison industry now, and must make sure prison populations don't deteriorate, or it will enrage the stockholders when they have to consolidate and close some of them.

What a damned stupid idea, privatising prisons, anyway, among so many stupid Republican ideas.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 05:39 AM
Response to Original message
5. I am assured by ideologues that this is, in fact, impossible
And contradicts selfish human nature.

Therefor it must not be true.
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
6. Cuban economic growth is about as reliable
as Stalin's reporting on the famines of the 30's.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Not as reliable as the US private gulag industry.
The US uber capitalist model is reliable..

Researcher Gladys Hernandez reported on the social disparities that continue to exist in Latin America. The situation in the region has worsened with 213 million poor (40.6 percent of the population); 41 million children under the age of 12 currently living in poverty; 53 million people who suffer from hunger; and 42 million illiterate.




But, nothing could be as reliable as the growth market in privatizing fascism - BushCrimeInc style..

But inequalities also find fertile ground in the United States, whose GDP is infamously buoyed up by profits generated from the production and sale of weapons (no less than 25 percent of the GDP) and the construction of private prisons.

While ten years ago there were barely five private prisons in the US, today there are more than 100, managed by 18 large corporations, spread across 27 states of the Union, with a total of more than 100,000 prisoners. In 1994, the private prison business generated profits that did not surpass 394 million dollars, in 2004 profits had soared to 2.7 billion and they are estimated to have reached the 3 billion mark in 2005
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coldiggs Donating Member (274 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
8. Fuck them the sooner Fidel Castro dies and goes back to hell the better
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Fidel has outlived quite a few US regimes....
He may just yet outlive Bush & Co.

Cubans won't throw away all they've gained, although the professional "exiles" will try to convince them.
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coldiggs Donating Member (274 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Fidel is a evil dictaor who has thousands of political prisoners.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Why not provide a link to your claim?
Edited on Tue Jan-17-06 12:33 PM by Judi Lynn
In the meantime, I've got an article quoting the CIA on the subject:
CIA: Most Cubans loyal to homeland
Agency believes various ties to island bind the majority
By Robert Windrem
NBC NEWS PRODUCER

NEW YORK, April 12 <2000> —
Minority Leader Dick Armey’s invitation to Gonzalez, offering him a tour of a local supermarket. But U.S. intelligence suggests otherwise.
THE CIA has long believed that while 1 million to 3 million Cubans would leave the island if they had the opportunity, the rest of the nation’s 11 million people would stay behind.
While an extraordinarily high number, there are still 8 million to 10 million Cubans happy to remain on the island.
(snip)
The CIA believes there are many reasons Cubans are content to remain in their homeland. Some don’t want to be separated from home, family and friends. Some fear they would never be able to return, and still others just fear change in general. Officials also say there is a reservoir of loyalty to Fidel Castro and, as in the case of Juan Miguel Gonzalez, to the Communist Party.

U.S. officials say they no longer regard Cuba as a totalitarian state with aggressive policies toward its people, but instead an authoritarian state, where the public can operate within certain bounds — just not push the envelope.
More important, Cuban media and Cuban culture long ago raised the banner of nationalism above that of Marxism. The intelligence community says the battle over Elian has presented Castro with a “unique opportunity” to enhance that nationalism.
There is no indication, U.S. officials say, of any nascent rebellion about to spill into the streets, no great outpouring of support for human rights activists in prison. In fact, there are fewer than 100 activists on the island and a support group of perhaps 1,000 more, according to U.S. officials.
(snip/…)
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ019.html
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mrbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. what's a "dictaor" ?
n/t
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Back up your statements.
No gusano sites, please.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. Bring back Batista & US control of Cuba!
Edited on Wed Jan-18-06 10:15 AM by Mika
Oh yeah. Things were just GREAT for Cubans before the revolution, when the US & organized crime/corporations ran things.



Before the 1959 revolution

  • 75% of rural dwellings were huts made from palm trees.
  • More than 50% had no toilets of any kind.
  • 85% had no inside running water.
  • 91% had no electricity.
  • There was only 1 doctor per 2,000 people in rural areas.
  • More than one-third of the rural population had intestinal parasites.
  • Only 4% of Cuban peasants ate meat regularly; only 1% ate fish, less than 2% eggs, 3% bread, 11% milk; none ate green vegetables.
  • The average annual income among peasants was $91 (1956), less than 1/3 of the national income per person.
  • 45% of the rural population was illiterate; 44% had never attended a school.
  • 25% of the labor force was chronically unemployed.
  • 1 million people were illiterate ( in a population of about 5.5 million).
  • 27% of urban children, not to speak of 61% of rural children, were not attending school.
  • Racial discrimination was widespread.
  • The public school system had deteriorated badly.
  • Corruption was endemic; anyone could be bought, from a Supreme Court judge to a cop.
  • Police brutality and torture were common.





  • Then came the brutal dictatorship after the revolution..



    After the 1959 revolution
    “It is in some sense almost an anti-model,” according to Eric Swanson, the programme manager for the Bank’s Development Data Group, which compiled the WDI, a tome of almost 400 pages covering scores of economic, social, and environmental indicators.

    Indeed, Cuba is living proof in many ways that the Bank’s dictum that economic growth is a pre-condition for improving the lives of the poor is over-stated, if not, downright wrong.

    -

    It has reduced its infant mortality rate from 11 per 1,000 births in 1990 to seven in 1999, which places it firmly in the ranks of the western industrialised nations. It now stands at six, according to Jo Ritzen, the Bank’s Vice President for Development Policy, who visited Cuba privately several months ago to see for himself.

    By comparison, the infant mortality rate for Argentina stood at 18 in 1999;

    Chile’s was down to ten; and Costa Rica, at 12. For the entire Latin American and Caribbean region as a whole, the average was 30 in 1999.

    Similarly, the mortality rate for children under the age of five in Cuba has fallen from 13 to eight per thousand over the decade. That figure is 50% lower than the rate in Chile, the Latin American country closest to Cuba’s achievement. For the region as a whole, the average was 38 in 1999.

    “Six for every 1,000 in infant mortality - the same level as Spain - is just unbelievable,” according to Ritzen, a former education minister in the Netherlands. “You observe it, and so you see that Cuba has done exceedingly well in the human development area.”

    Indeed, in Ritzen’s own field, the figures tell much the same story. Net primary enrolment for both girls and boys reached 100% in 1997, up from 92% in 1990. That was as high as most developed nations - higher even than the US rate and well above 80-90% rates achieved by the most advanced Latin American countries.

    “Even in education performance, Cuba’s is very much in tune with the developed world, and much higher than schools in, say, Argentina, Brazil, or Chile.”

    It is no wonder, in some ways. Public spending on education in Cuba amounts to about 6.7% of gross national income, twice the proportion in other Latin American and Caribbean countries and even Singapore.

    There were 12 primary school pupils for every Cuban teacher in 1997, a ratio that ranked with Sweden, rather than any other developing country. The Latin American and East Asian average was twice as high at 25 to one.

    The average youth (age 15-24) illiteracy rate in Latin America and the Caribbean stands at 7%. In Cuba, the rate is zero. In Latin America, where the average is 7%, only Uruguay approaches that achievement, with one percent youth illiteracy.

    “Cuba managed to reduce illiteracy from 40% to zero within ten years,” said Ritzen. “If Cuba shows that it is possible, it shifts the burden of proof to those who say it’s not possible.”

    Similarly, Cuba devoted 9.1% of its gross domestic product (GDP) during the 1990s to health care, roughly equivalent to Canada’s rate. Its ratio of 5.3 doctors per 1,000 people was the highest in the world.

    The question that these statistics pose, of course, is whether the Cuban experience can be replicated. The answer given here is probably not.

    “What does it, is the incredible dedication,” according to Wayne Smith, who was head of the US Interests Section in Havana in the late 1970s and early 1980s and has travelled to the island many times since.


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    rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 01:17 PM
    Response to Original message
    13. Not too shabby, made it in decade 5 of the century plan (nt)
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    Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 02:07 PM
    Response to Reply #13
    15. Right. Fifty years under a crushing embargo the U.N. General Assembly
    has condemned many years straight.
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    rfkrfk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 10:34 AM
    Response to Reply #15
    17. Cuba trades with 96% of the world.
    crushing?

    hardly
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    Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:47 PM
    Response to Reply #17
    18. Either you haven't taken time to get informed, or you are deliberately
    Edited on Wed Jan-18-06 03:48 PM by Judi Lynn
    attempting to misinform others. Fortunately, many, many DU'ers are very aware of the impact of the Cuban embargo, just like all the UN delegates who condemn the CRUSHING effects of the embargo every year. I always wonder why it is people like you make this claim. If the embargo doesn't do any damage, why not lift it, as its intention has been nullified. Just remove it, and bow to the wishes of the majority of the American public.
    The U.S. Embargo and the Wrath of God
    by Juan Gonzalez
    In These Times, March 8, 1998

    Havana: Gilberto Duran Torres couldn't devote much attention to Pope John Paul lI's historic visit here in January. While Cuban journalists and thousands of foreign journalists recorded the pope's every move, Duran and the other doctors at Calixto Garcia Hospital, Cuba's largest and most prestigious medical center, spent another hair-raising week quietly concocting their own miracles-a string of patchwork procedures to keep their patients alive.
    Duran is chief of the intermediate care unit. He has worked at the hospital for 25 years, but nowadays he watches helplessly as the country's awesome cradle-to-grave, free medical system slowly disintegrates. Duran's department, for instance, is making do with artificial respirators that are more than 20 years old. . . . "We should have at least 12 for my unit," he says. "We have far fewer, and they are always breaking down. When one goes, we don't have the parts to fix it, so we have to search around the city, find a hospital that's not using theirs, and transport it here." So much of the world's advanced medical equipment and drugs are manufactured by U.S. firms that the three-decade-old American embargo is now literally killing Cubans, according to a 1997 report issued by the American Association for World Health (AAWH) following a year-long investigation.
    Back in Washington, the proponents of the embargo insist that needed medical supplies can still get to Cuba. But the 300 page AAWH report, "Denial of Food and Medicine: The Impact of the U.S. Embargo on Health and Nutrition in Cuba," provides startling documentation of dozens of cases in which Cuban hospitals could not secure the medicine and equipment they needed because of the sharp restrictions imposed by the 1992 Cuban Democracy Act.
    Dr. Julian Ruiz, a surgeon at Calixto Garcia, recounts his 15-day search last September for a Z-Stent Introducer, a small contraption that he needed to operate on a man with colon cancer. Not one could be found in the country. The manufacturer of the Z-Stent, Wilson Cooke Medical Inc. of Winston-Salem, N.C., refused to sell it to the Cubans. Ruiz' staff, scouring the world, finally found a Z-Stent they could buy in Mexico. By that time, the man's cancer had spread.
    Exacerbating the shortages are takeovers of foreign firms by U.S. pharmaceutical companies. In 1995, for example, Upjohn Co. merged with Pharmacia, a major Swedish drug company that had been supplying Cuba with millions of dollars worth of chemotherapy drugs, growth hormones and equipment for its medical labs. Within three months, Pharmacia closed its Havana office and stopped all sales.
    That same year, Nunc, a Danish firm that supplied Cuba with materials for HIV and hepatitis screening tests, was absorbed by Sybron International of Wisconsin. Eight days after the merger, Nunc executives notified Cuba by fax: "Much to our regret, we have to inform you that unfortunately our cooperation of many years has to be terminated.... In future, we therefore have to follow the directions laid down by the U.S. Government in relation to Cuba."
    Nothing has drawn the Catholic Church and the Cuban government closer together than their mutual opposition to the U.S. blockade of medicine and food supplies to Cuba's people.
    "Even in warfare, you don't bomb hospitals and schools," says Patrick Sullivan, the pastor of a church in Santa Clara and the only American priest permanently stationed in the country.
    A Cuban official in charge of finding and paying for food from abroad recounted her frustration with the embargo. "To ship a thousand tons of powdered milk from New Zealand, I must pay $150,000, when bringing the same amount from Miami would only cost me $25,000," she says.
    While the U.S. government forces Cuba to pay six times more than necessary for children to drink milk and shuts off the supply for medical screening tests, it scurries to sell more Boeing planes to China, to open new Nike factories in Vietnam and even finds ways to ship food to North Korea. The last time anybody looked, these were socialist countries too, at least in name.
    (snip/...)
    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Human_Rights/Cuba_embargo.html
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    rfkrfk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:55 PM
    Response to Reply #18
    20. Fidel charges too much to import stuff, so what?
    not a blockade,. by the way.

    Cuba can buy anything it wants easily,
    except from the US, where they have to use
    a front buyer.
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    Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 04:09 PM
    Response to Reply #20
    21. You're barking up the wrong tree here. +
    Denial of Food and Medicine:
    The Impact Of The U.S. Embargo
    On The Health And Nutrition In Cuba"
    -An Executive Summary-
    American Association for World Health Report
    Summary of Findings
    March 1997
    After a year-long investigation, the American Association for World Health has determined that the U.S. embargo of Cuba has dramatically harmed the health and nutrition of large numbers of ordinary Cuban citizens. As documented by the attached report, it is our expert medical opinion that the U.S. embargo has caused a significant rise in suffering-and even deaths-in Cuba. For several decades the U.S. embargo has imposed significant financial burdens on the Cuban health care system. But since 1992 the number of unmet medical needs patients going without essential drugs or doctors performing medical procedures without adequate equipment-has sharply accelerated. This trend is directly linked to the fact that in 1992 the U.S. trade embargo-one of the most stringent embargoes of its kind, prohibiting the sale of food and sharply restricting the sale of medicines and medical equipment-was further tightened by the 1992 Cuban Democracy Act.

    A humanitarian catastrophe has been averted only because the Cuban government has maintained a high level of budgetary support for a health care system designed to deliver primary and preventive health care to all of its citizens. Cuba still has an infant mortality rate half that of the city of Washington, D.C.. Even so, the U.S. embargo of food and the de facto embargo on medical supplies has wreaked havoc with the island's model primary health care system. The crisis has been compounded by the country's generally weak economic resources and by the loss of trade with the Soviet bloc.

    Recently four factors have dangerously exacerbated the human effects of this 37-year-old trade embargo. All four factors stem from little-understood provisions of the U.S. Congress' 1992 Cuban Democracy Act (CDA):
      1. A Ban on Subsidiary Trade: Beginning in 1992, the Cuban Democracy Act imposed a ban on subsidiary trade with Cuba. This ban has severely constrained Cuba's ability to import medicines and medical supplies from third country sources. Moreover, recent corporate buyouts and mergers between major U.S. and European pharmaceutical companies have further reduced the number of companies permitted to do business with Cuba.

      2. Licensing Under the Cuban Democracy Act: The U.S. Treasury and Commerce Departments are allowed in principle to license individual sales of medicines and medical supplies, ostensibly for humanitarian reasons to mitigate the embargo's impact on health care delivery. In practice, according to U.S. corporate executives, the licensing provisions are so arduous as to have had the opposite effect. As implemented, the licensing provisions actively discourage any medical commerce. The number of such licenses granted-or even applied for since 1992-is minuscule. Numerous licenses for medical equipment and medicines have been denied on the grounds that these exports "would be detrimental to U.S. foreign policy interests."

      3. Shipping Since 1992:The embargo has prohibited ships from loading or unloading cargo in U.S. ports for 180 days after delivering cargo to Cuba. This provision has strongly discouraged shippers from delivering medical equipment to Cuba. Consequently shipping costs have risen dramatically and further constricted the flow of food, medicines, medical supplies and even gasoline for ambulances. From 1993 to 1996, Cuban companies spent an additional $8.7 million on shipping medical imports from Asia, Europe and South America rather than from the neighboring United States.

      3Humanitarian AidCharity is an inadequate alternative to free trade in medicines, medical supplies and food. Donations from U.S. non-governmental organizations and international agencies do not begin to compensate for the hardships inflicted by the embargo on the Cuban public health system. In any case, delays in licensing and other restrictions have severely discouraged charitable contributions from the U.S.
      (snip/...)
    http://www.cubasolidarity.net/aawh.html

    I've got to get off my computer as someone else needs it, but I will be happy to bring a whole lot of information later which applies here. Remember, your willingness to discuss the matter allows the people who have real information to post it. That's a big help.
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    Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 11:00 PM
    Response to Reply #20
    23. I used the word "embargo." How does that connect with your
    declaration "not a blockade?" That there is a complex, dense embargo on Cuba is well known throughout the world.

    Many people in the world call it a "blockade." Cubans certainly do.

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    rfkrfk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 10:25 AM
    Response to Reply #23
    26. Cubans can use any words they want, for anything
    their choice, not mine.

    Do you know what the 'Cuban Missle crisis' was?

    That was a real blockade.
    The US Navy kept ships out.

    Today, any ship can sail over to Cuba, if Fidel lets them in.
    For companies with ties to the US, the US has restrictions/prohibitions,
    for visiting Cuba. anybody else, can just float over to Cuba.

    Do you see the difference?
    Do you know that the US is not the whole world?

    Lots of ships, never visit the US. They can sail to Cuba,
    as they please.
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    Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 10:32 AM
    Response to Reply #26
    27. What you're saying doesn't make much sense, as no one said
    foreign ships don't go to Cuba.

    I would refer serious DU readers who haven't read much on the embargo, and I have ALWAYS called it an embargo, to become familiar with the Helms-Burton law and the Torricelli Amendment, both, I believe attach all kinds of additional extra-territorial conditions to the embargo, which have been deplored and reviled by other countries as being contrary to international law.

    Don't try to be flippant with me. It discredits you.
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    Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 11:05 AM
    Response to Reply #26
    29. Get your "facts" straight.
    Edited on Thu Jan-19-06 11:06 AM by Billy Burnett
    Do you know what the 'Cuban Missle crisis' was?

    That was a real blockade.
    The US Navy kept ships out.




    No, the US did not keep ships out of Cuba. The US unilaterally decided that it would board ships that left from USSR ports to inspect them for missiles/missile parts. The US did no boarding of USSR vessels. Some of the suspect vessels continued, some slowed down, some turned around w/o being stopped. Ships from other nations were not affected. Then JFK and Khrushchev came to an agreement and the missiles were taken out of Cuba.(Although there are newly released documents that suggest that it was Castro who wanted the missiles out after he learned via back channels that the agreement between JFK and Khrushchev -in exchange for the removal of US nukes out of Turkey- was for the US to push for UN nuclear arms inspectors to get into Cuba, hoping Castro would refuse, as a pretext for UN invasion - like the US's unrealized plans to use UN inspection violations as the pretext to use the UN approval to invade Iraq. Castro wanted no part of the US/USSR global cold war territorial brinksmanship and shipped the missiles out of Cuba back to Khrushchev.)

    Americans can use whatever words they want, but it was not a "blockade".



    --

    on edit:

    Hi Judi Lynn :hi:

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    Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 11:13 AM
    Response to Reply #29
    30. Hello there, Billy Burnett! Your post makes good sense.
    It's as though time has stood still, unfortunately! Same guys, no doubt.
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    rfkrfk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 11:50 AM
    Response to Reply #29
    32. blockade --> attempting to control, someone else's ports
    the fact that non-Soviet ships were allowed in,

    and the fact that an arrangement was reached before any ships were intercepted,
    does not change the fact that, suspect ships that would have
    refused to be boarded by the US Navy, would have been blocked
    from off loading in Cuba, {or at least that was Kennedy's threat}
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    Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:47 AM
    Response to Reply #20
    24. At 1:42 a.m., E.S.T., ESPN said the U.S. has had a "blockade" on Cuba.
    They were discussing Cuba's championship baseball team and its wish to participate in the international tournament which starts in March, in Puerto Rico, for which they have to have Bush's administration's permission to attend. They have been refused, although they have always participated in U.S. sports activities for all the years leading up to the Bush seige of the pResidency.

    As soon as I heard ESPN's use of the word "blockade" on my husband's sports program, I felt I should let rfkrfk know that even ESPN is calling the embargo a blockade, contrary to what he declared in his post here.

    Question, now that I have time to post: what information do you have concerning Cuba's use of a "front buyer?" Would you please post a link. It should be very educational for DU Cuba-watchers. Sounds interesting.
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    rfkrfk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 10:46 AM
    Response to Reply #24
    28. no such thing as an inward blockade
    Edited on Thu Jan-19-06 11:04 AM by rfkrfk
    countries can control imports/immigration,
    that is not a blockade

    -------------------------------------
    concerning 'front companies'.

    first of all, Cuba can buy anything it wants
    from 96% percent of the world.
    except for some meaningless restrictions on ships visiting
    Cuba, and later trying to visit the US, , and likewise a
    meaningless secondary boycott.

    if Cuba wants general consumer stuff,
    food, TV sets, car parts,
    somebody in Mexico could buy it, and put it on another ship,
    and sail to Cuba, any non-US shipping company could do this.

    Suppose some European company is worried about the US secondary boycott.
    Two ways around that, set up a front company to sell to Cuba, or,
    sell to Mexico, and ship it to Cuba.
    Its not that hard to understand.
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    Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 11:49 AM
    Response to Reply #28
    31. I wish you knew more about the subject you're trying to discuss.
    It's frustrating seeing you try so hard to make sense and missing.

    Take deep breaths and focus. It might work yet.
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    Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 03:48 PM
    Response to Original message
    19. kick for the truth
    thanks mika
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    Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 06:03 PM
    Response to Original message
    22. Kicking for embargo information. n/t
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    applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:48 AM
    Response to Original message
    25. There economy has been crap. Now they are into joint ventures and
    such. Goes to show us. Communism doesn't work. Still - if US has not embargoed - I don't think they would today still be under Castro's rule.
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