Zogby: Kennedy bumps Roosevelt from top of Presidential Greatness Scale

[Robb]

Zogby - President Kennedy, enjoying a surge of fresh popularity among
Americans who have rated him the greatest President of the
modern era, surged past Franklin D. Roosevelt for the first
time since early 2002, a new Zogby International poll shows.

Roosevelt usually tops the Zogby Presidential Greatness Scale, but
Kennedy has rebounded nicely after hitting a low point in
1997, when the American news media was filled with stories of
Presidential peccadilloes during the Bill Clinton/Monica
Lewinsky affair. Also aiding Kennedy’s numbers: Americans who
have a personal memory of the Roosevelt presidency are dwindling.

Ronald Reagan held third place, rounding out a trio of former
Commanders in Chief who continue to stand head-and-shoulders
above other colleagues in the eyes of their countrymen. Reagan,
who died in June, 2004, retained the big gains he made in the
survey following his death, enshrining him well above fourth-place
Harry Truman, the only President to authorize the use of a
nuclear bomb and, in doing so, presided over the end of
World War II.

Kennedy was rated as "great" or "near-great" by 73% of those
surveyed by Zogby, compared to 71% who felt the same way
about Roosevelt. Reagan was rated as "great" or "near great"
by 63% of respondents.

(more)

[WI_DEM]

1. It has to do with memory more than anything

because there is no way JFK was as great a president as FDR and I think the record is pretty clear about that. Many people still remember JFK while many people who lived thru FDR are dying off.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

29. And they're sure as hell not going to read it in history books.

I shudder to think that the day will come when Raygun is remembered as the greatest president of modern times. And I'm afraid the powers that be will see to it that he is. :puke:

[hlthe2b]

2. Wow....

I have tremendous appreciation for JFK, but geez, FDR was in office, what almost 4 times longer than JFK? Perhaps they should leave the ratings up to the Presidential Historians, who have truly studied the entire life and terms in office?

[SiobhanClancy]

3. I have no personal memory of FDR...

but,although I do have a memory of JFK from childhood,there is really no logical basis for an opinion that Kennedy was greater than FDR.

[WI_DEM]

4. Despite Vietnam, Johnson deserves a better showing

for the landmark legislation passed during his term including in the fields of civil rights.

[Charlie Brown]

9. I agree. Johnson deserves better

Civil rights, public broadcasting, women's rights, fighting poverty. I'd be ecstatic if another Dem with Johnson's principles arrived on the scene.

[Vidar]

5. Kennedy was a wonderful man, but not in the same class with FDR

[bklyncowgirl]

6. No way.

Roosevelt got us out of the Great Depression, lead the country through WWII. While I have nothing against President Kennedy, his accomplishments are rather puny compared to FDR's.

[Grateful for Hope]

7. But, his life was cut short

so we don't know the great things he would have accomplished had he been in office for two terms.

[rpannier]

16. And we don't know what his failures would have been either

Based on their records FDR exceeded Kennedy.

[Grateful for Hope]

21. I don't think they can be accurately compared n/t

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

30. I think you're right, there...

It's like arguing who was the best second-baseman of all time. There's really no clear-cut answer -- but I think that as long as we talk about what constitutes greatness among our presidents, that's a positive thing.

And for purely partisan reasons, it does nothing but highlight the shallowness of the current administration.

[Grateful for Hope]

36. So true!

"And for purely partisan reasons, it does nothing but highlight the shallowness of the current administration."


:toast:

[bklyncowgirl]

39. I agree with that but compare a very real record of achievement ...

...with what might have been. Sadly, we'll never know what would have happened had Kennedy lived.

I still have to go with Roosevelt though. There's no question about what he did.

[WePurrsevere]

8. Partly memory & partly the sad fact that many Americans don't know

enough about American History... or want to.

[aquart]

10. Sheer bloody ignorance.

Our schools are terrified to teach the Great Depression and Roosevelt's remedies for fear of seeming leftist.

[adriennui]

11. if kennedy wasn't assassinated

he'd be a blip in the poll. he was handsome, intelligent and wildly charismatic BUT he never got a chance to attain greatness. if he lived it is quite possible he would have been slightly better than mediocre.

[Catch22Dem]

13. Equally possible he could have been the greatest ever

One can never know.

[jobycom]

18. I think Civil Rights, the lunar landing, the Peace Corps and the arms race

make him significant even in his short time, and I think they point to the probability of greater significance if he had lived. We'll never know--he could have failed completely if his penchant for playing both sides exploded in his face--but I think it's far more likely he would have gone on to be an important, perhaps even great, president. Without his assassination, he would charted the nation through Civil Rights and Viet Nam. We know he was not a strong on Civil Rights as LBJ, but he was still a strong supporter of them, and we will never know for sure whether he would have pulled out of or increased our involvement in Viet Nam--since he told different people he would do both--but with his military background and his greater self-confidence over foreign affairs, I tend to think he would have handled Viet Nam better. A few things we know: LBJ lied to involve us more heavily, LBJ did not want to get into Viet Nam but was brow-beaten by his military advisors, LBJ felt inadequate to their greater military and foreign affairs experience, JFK had stood up already to the more ridiculous plans of his military advisors (Bay of Pigs, Operation Northwood), JFK was rarely browbeaten by anyone, and JFK didn't seem to want to get into Viet Nam, either.

I think all in all the odds are far greater than JFK would have been great than that he would have been a failure, and I think that the plans he laid already make him a significant president. But he's certainly not over FDR. We could have a good debate whether he was better than Clinton, maybe.

[Charlie Brown]

32. If Kennedy had lived, he would have been devoured by Vietnam

instead of Johnson.

[Chomskyite]

33. He did have his "greatness" moments IMO

Not letting LeMay get us into "nuclear war toe-to-toe with the Russkies" as he was demanding in October 62.

Not giving up on Civil Rights legislation when it was showing signs of stalling. Facing down Wallace. Keeping Hoover in temporary check. Insisting on as much openness as he could. Assuming the responsibility for the Bay of Pigs thing EARLY even though Eisenhower's people put it together and he merely okayed it and balked at providing air power cover which would have escalated tensions with the Soviets.

There were those other moments too, but the guy had some shining ones, I'll admit. Not a tenth as many as FDR, but the ones he had were hard to miss.

[Catch22Dem]

12. To think fucking Nixon is even ALLOWED on the list!!!

It's a travesty and shows true American ignorance.

[54anickel]

25. I dunno, yeah he was a "crook" but accomplished a helluvalot more good

for the country Raygun could have dream of...the EPA (though he did insist on OMB's cost-benefit analysis), The Clean Air Act, OSHA, inflation adjustments to SS, SSI (some considered COLAs and SSI his worst decisions), desegregation of southern schools, he was a huge supporter of civil rights and equal rights for women, and was pretty good at foreign diplomacy.

Sure, he was sneaky, Tricky Dicky - no one trusted him, he tended to have purely political motivations for many of his decisions. But if you're looking at accomplishments while in office, I've got to wonder....what's Raygun doing on the list?

[rpannier]

14. I find that ridiculous

FDR was a greater President than Kennedy. Roosevelt ushered in a whole new era for government and it's relationship with ordinary Americans. Reagan as third is just ridiculous. He wasn't even the greatest Republican President of the modern era. I guess it's all about people's VERY short memories.

[Charlie Brown]

17. Eisenhower was by far greater than Reagan

for the space program, alone, he deserves more credit, and also his role in Civil Rights (can you imagine Reagan sending Army troops to Little Rock to enforce integration?), and he appointed Earl Warren.

[Benhurst]

19. I agree. And what about Teddy Roosevelt, as long as we're

talking about Republicans?

As for all modern presidents? There is no choice, really. FDR.

[jobycom]

20. Eisenhower appointed Warren to kill desegregation, though

Or at least that's the rumor. He appointed a conservative former governor of California expecting him to strike down desegregation, probably more because he thought it would be a bad political move than out of any personal hatred. And though he sent troops to Little Rock, he did so to enforce a Supreme Court ruling he didn't like, and he refused to do the same thing in Texas, causing a bad seen.

Eisenhower later called the appointment of Warren to SCOTUS "the biggest damned fool mistake I ever made in my life."

On foreign affairs, he authorized the overthrow of the democracy in Iran and he aggravated conflicts with Russia around the globe, which set up the American policy which led to Viet Nam.

On his good side, he respected both parties and the laws of government, he refused to cut taxes until a budget could be balanced, and his sharp, experienced military mind helped guide the world through a dangerous time, though not always as peacefully as it could have.

He was a hell of a lot better than Reagan, but I don't think of him as a nice guy. An effective president, though, and that, too, makes him better than Reagan.

[jobycom]

15. Pop Culture Greatness

Just meaningless popularity polls of an uninformed and misled public who have been convinced by Republicans that the opinions of the average person is more accurate than the learned knowledge of experts.

[CatholicEdHead]

22. Both Bushes are behind Clinton

That says alot. Clinton also leads all living Presidents.

[marmar]

23. Nixon fans need not worry...

He's going to get replaced at the bottom, real soon.

[UTUSN]

24. Bizarro. Lack of education. n/t

[Bombero1956]

26. just goes to show you

that a dead Kennedy is better than a live Bush.

[goforit]

27. OH no!!!....Bush Sr. must be crapping out a big one on this poll!

ROFLMAO!!!!

Bush Sr. and his bozo sons will never match this one!!!

[burrowowl]

28. How in the hell is

RayGun third! :banghead:

What IGNORANCE or Love of no-brain and destruction of Democracy!

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

31. Gve it a generation....

It will go away.

[f-bush]

34. Kennedy's a great president but...

he sure as hell didn't lead people out of a depression, provide a social safety net, nor held the country together safely during a prolonged World War!

[the other one]

35. JFK does too beat FDR.

Longevity proves nothing. If it did then WBush is going to rank higher than JFK also.

FDR helped see this country through national crisis and in the process laid the framework for the cold war and korea and vietnam. He was instrumental in foisting the nuclear age on us. Because of him all americans are now assigned a code number which is not an option. And let us not forget WWII. When Hitler offered the jews in exchange for trucks, the US replied in no uncertain terms that Germany can keep their jews, there is no way they are getting any trucks. Great stuff.

JFK was a product of idealism and an idealist himself. He was assassinated because he was a TRUE THREAT to the establishment. JFK was determined to do the right thing. Granted that he was a political animal and knew almost instinctively which direction the winds were blowing, he did not let his idealism get compromised. And when have you seen a pres. take the blame like the bay of pigs?

[lanlady]

37. hah! Dubya's "below average" rating

in this poll is 40%! Second only to Nixon's 47%.

That's an injustice to Nixon, who at least had some accomplishments (ending the war, the opening to China, and so on).

[pinniped]

38. Executive Order 9066.

What about his greatness, Raygun?

He singlehandedly ended the Cold War!

[zann725]

40. And most recently, all the FDR-bashing by Bushco re: Social Security and

all Entitlement programs being miscontrued in the famous Repug up-is-down reality.

Once again, I do wish I had ansered that Zogby poll. I just kept putting it off. In the future will not...as issues like FDR being my "fav" Dem Prez of all time...are things I'd like to keep 'kicked' in what little REAL History does NOT get re-written by the current Admin.