( NYT) U.S. Rejects Truce Offer From bin Laden (why not at least try?).

[rodeodance]

with terrorists" (Cheney)


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/20/international/middleeast/20tape.html?th=&emc=th&pagewanted=printJanuary 20, 2006
U.S. Rejects Truce Offer From bin Laden
By HASSAN M. FATTAH

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates, Jan. 19 -

.....He said the lack of Qaeda attacks in the United States since Sept. 11 was not related to improved security, and he pointed to terrorist attacks in Europe as evidence that his fighters could penetrate all such barriers.

As to what attacks Americans can expect, he said, "The operations are under preparation and you will see them in your homes the minute they are through, with God's permission."

Vice President Dick Cheney, asked by Fox News about the tape, said it now seemed likely that Mr. bin Laden, whom some had believed dead, was alive. But, the vice president said, Mr. bin Laden has clearly had trouble getting his message out and added, "We don't negotiate with terrorists."

"I think you have to destroy them," he said. "It's the only way to deal with them."

[rodeodance]

1. I think cheney/bush are very upset by this comment by OBL

......Regarding an American withdrawal, he said, "There is no shame in this solution which prevents the wasting of billions of dollars that have gone to those with influence and merchants of war in America who have supported Bush's election campaign."

[ixion]

4. why would they be upset?

they wrote it. :evilgrin:

[rodeodance]

6. I do not think "they' wrote it--. One reason is that exposes the $ being

made by supporters of BushCo and the war.

[rodeodance]

8. I just that it was a poll question on capitalnews.org

heard this on cspan.

[rodeodance]

44. here it is

Should the U.S. pursue truce discussions with Osama bin Laden?
Yes
31%
No
69%

Total Votes: 369

[trogdor]

56. My poll over at DailyKos this morning.

No. 10 votes - 24 %
Hell no. 27 votes - 65 %
Maybe. 1 vote - 2 %
Sure, why not? 3 votes - 7 %

I was kinda taken aback at the fact that one out of ten Kossacks were open to the idea of saying, "OK, Osama, what did you have in mind," as stupid an idea as that sounds.

[rodeodance]

57. any peace talks would take a skilled person to bring people to the table--

Who? would be the arbitor?--How to begin is the question.

[rodeodance]

58. getting past the NO to me is the first step--and it is not a baby step -as

witnessed by both the polls thus far.

[ixion]

10. which has conveniently given the GOP this idiotic talking point

that is nonetheless being repeated by the MSM: "Gee, OBL sounds like a liberal democrat."

[rodeodance]

13. i know--so lets change the subject and focus on potential truce/talking

with 'them'---whoever they are.

[ixion]

17. I'm all for stopping the fighting.

But herein lies the problem with the so-called War on Terror. Just who is the 'them', in this case?

Let's say that we make a 'deal' with OBL. Who's to say that deal will stand for ALL members of ALL organizations?

How do you declare a truce with Terror? Where does Terror live? What does Terror's flag look like? Does Terror have an ambassador that we can contact to start to negotiate a truce?

I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to point out some flaws in the over-simplified premise that OBL, or Saddam or any one individual controls all the Terror in the world.

As long as the US pursues these ludicrous wars of abstraction, we will have nothing but war, because war is what is desired.

[rodeodance]

19. You make many excellant points to which I do not have answers. But I

do know that this killing is senseless--on both sides--continuous killing will not lead to any fruitful 'victory'. That I know.

[ixion]

20. we defintely agree on that point

:hi:

Violence solves absolutely nothing. The only result is that innocent people are injured or killed, and lives are ruined.

[rodeodance]

23. and because we hear so little of these 'others' that are being killed--the

civilians (or we dismiss them as colateral damage)---we put them out of our minds (i talk of very little news coverage in the press/media--DU readers not included in the 'do not know')

[roseBudd]

94. Every civilian killed has relatives who may hate the US & who could become

a so-called terrorist. Losing a loved one to a violent, horrible death can be a powerful motivator.

[rodeodance]

59. kick

[rodeodance]

66. kick

[superconnected]

79. I assume they wrote it too.

Of course they're going to try to make it look like they didn't.

[Evergreen Emerald]

2. When will people wake up?

Isn't it suspicious to anyone else that he comes from under the rock at the most opportune times for Bush? Election / bad debate / polls plummeting / NSA.

And, could it be more blatant that he is helping Bush?

Bush and company are creating the tapes.

[justice4all]

31. How convenient - good point

I was thinking that myself as soon as I saw the headline.

If I were a neocon and wanted to take attention away from the lawlessness and failures both here and abroad, one option would be to scare people again. It's worked well starting with 9/11.

The CIA that "authenticated" the tape is the same organization that "knew" Saddam had WMDs.

This tape will probably be used by the neocons to equate an Iraq withdrawal with "trying to make a truce with Bin Laden". I would like to ask how Al-Jezeera got the tape. If I were a foreigner who stood to benefit from the continued presence of the US in Iraq and Afghanistan, I'd consider making a tape like this to goad the US into doing the wrong thing (staying there indefinitely).

[rodeodance]

35. points taken--but I do not 'know; that. It is speculation.

[justice4all]

43. there are many things we do not know because

the government has kept them secret and the press is too timid to ask probing questions.

Like, exactly how did the towers and building #7 (which was not hit by a plane) collapse? Engineers disagree and some contend that it could have been a planned demolition.

Why did the Air Force, with its super-fast fighter planes, not shoot down the hijacked planes before they hit buildings? Much information concerning this matter has been hidden from the public.

[rodeodance]

52. your comments make the tape very suspect and it is not that I reject

it totally. I just do not know what to believe at this point. For example, one minute I am swayed by the morphing, the next not.

Others have suggested an independent analysis of the tape-this one and the others. I do not believe they were ever subjected to an independent analysis and think they should be.

[Carni]

55. Oh I'm definitely with you on that--

The context of what was in that so called announcement yesterday doesn't sound even remotely like the crap bin forgotten was spewing in the 90's.

I also think the tape is BS

[Mad_Dem_X]

75. That's what I thought when I read the part

where OBL mentioned God. I thought that was strange, to say the least.

[nookiemonster]

88. It's refreshing to see that someone else gets it.

:thumbsup:

n/t


edited for spelling

[rodeodance]

91. yes, it is suspicious--mind boggling actually. but OBL needs BushCO

to feed his rebellion--they need each other. Bush needs a OBL figure to give him justification to continue this 'war on terror' and OBL needs a BushCo type to recruit into his revoltion.




...Isn't it suspicious to anyone else that he comes from under the rock at the most opportune times for Bush? Election / bad debate / polls plummeting / NSA.......

[Evergreen Emerald]

93. This likely will be a great response to Murtha's proposal

Just when the reasonable voices were being heard--another tape appears. Bush will use it to counter the idea that we need to withdrawl from Iraq.

[Caution]

3. You don't make a truce with a terrorist and murderer

He needs to be personally brought to justice to answer for the crimes of killing 3000+ people.

A cessation of hostilities in Iraq and Afghanistan can only be negotiated with the legitimate governments of those countries not with some fanatic living in a cave!

[ixion]

5. you don't really believe that the guy lives in a cave, do you?

I mean, he requires dialysis, at best, which requires a steril environment. You don't normally come across those in caves.

[Caution]

7. Whatever, The point stands regardless of where the bastard lives

[ixion]

14. Interesting, because the US did just that when Russia occupied

Afghanistan in the 80's. Just sayin'.

[Caution]

16. And it turned out to be a massive mistake

[ixion]

18. though it's not stopped us from making deals with

dictators again and again and again.

So let's say that we suit up and hunt down OBL once and for all. You think that would be the end of it?

[Caution]

22. Nope. But anyone who thinks that cutting a deal with him

would end it is deluding themselves just as much.

[rodeodance]

25. 'cutting a deal' can be such things as reading 'Rogue State'-and thinking

about what we 'do' to 'them'.

[ixion]

27. I don't think that it would in the slightest

so we do agree on that. ;-)

[rodeodance]

33. if people could somehow realize what we 'do' to them with our policies

, then maybe it is a start? a little step, but worth a try.

[ixion]

37. yeah, I think that would help, but it's difficult to get people

to believe that we actually to harm to other nations, if you can believe that.

My dad, an apparently naive conservative, still supports *, and still believes that everywhere we go in the world we 'help'. It's odd, because he has a doctorate, so it's not a lack of education. I think it's more akin to denial and/or rationalization. To accept that we do harm is to rewrite 50+ years of history in your mind. I think that's going to be difficult for many (most?) people to handle.

What I hear when I try and convince people is: "Oh, I can't believe we'd ever do something like that."

As long as we're in that phase, collectively speaking, we're going nowhere fast.

[rodeodance]

40. Thanks for your story--i have similar experiences but one good story also-

my sister -a few years back--went to college--young carefree, indifferent to what was going on around the world. One day she just--out of the blue -started talking about the US and its policies around the world--said it was brought up in a class. It opened her eyes--she said--we just do not realize we can forever tell others what to do and expect them to agree with it. Boy, was I pleasantly surprized. but, many like your story also.

[ixion]

63. that's a story with a good ending

it's always nice when people wake up from the dream. Thanks! :-)

[rodeodance]

61. see post 60 please.

anything to it?

[ixion]

83. yeah, saw that...very possible

although without some (unfabricated, unplanted) concrete evidence, it's just another in the long string of theories that make up the Flying Spaghetti Osama. :-)

[rodeodance]

9. recall Ireland--we HAVE to start talking.

[rodeodance]

11. The WH WANTS you to dismiss talk/truce/negoiations. Get it.

[justice4all]

46. there is a third option

that the WH would probably like to ignore. That is of doing the right thing for our country regardless of what Bin Laden has or hasn't said.

[rodeodance]

53. It has been so long since I heard those words--yes, the WH WOULD

like us to forget this notion.

[rodeodance]

65. "I think you have to destroy them," he said. "It's the only way to deal wi

th them"

quote from Cheney.

[pitohui]

77. agreed, whatever happened to "no justice, no peace"

it is the admittedly thankless role of the left and the progressive community to demand justice for those who can't demand it for themselves

i cannot support any truce w. bin laden any more than i would support a truce w. john gotti or anyone else who paid others $$$ to commit murders, men who hire murder done should be brought to justice and made to pay for their crimes

we already have a system of "steal a little, go to jail, steal a lot and they make you king"

are we now going to make it a system of "kill a few, go to jail, kill a lot and they make you king"?

no truce w. osama

some things really are worth fighting for, justice is one of them

[rodeodance]

80. I think it is time to think about justice for the 'good of the many"--the

ones who get caught in the middle--the civilians who are continually bombed (on both sides).

I have no doubt that obl will get his justice someday somehow (if he is not already dust in the hills of Tora Bora).

[pitohui]

81. so we pick and choose who deserves justice?

how does that work?

osama obviously hasn't gotten his, he has hundreds of millions of dollars and is apparently doing quite well and winning the so-called war on terror while he's at it

the dude should be hunted down, put on trial, and made to pay for his crimes

period

anything less -- and what we've seen from cheney and the rest despite all their tough talk is WAY less -- is completely unacceptable

bushco fucked up, perhaps deliberately, but obviously osama didn't die in tora bora, he freakin got away due to their incompetence and this is the theme we need to keep hitting on rather than giving them a free pass

[rodeodance]

89. I have not the foggiest HOW a truce/peace talks would work/play out.

Would the talks initally involve 'lower level' persons? suspect so>
What groups would be involved?

And where and what role would obl take? (maybe none if he is already dead).
Could "peace talks"--even begin as long as obl is alive?
Daunting task.

[WhereThereIsFire]

12. Cheney ignores that to 75% of the world WE are the terrorists!

So what danger (if the only thing to do is totally distroy terrorists)does that put us in? If we act like terrorists, what is to keep us from being a continued target? The administration ignores the principle made clear in MUNICH that "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

[rodeodance]

15. here is the polll. Only 36% say YES--(pursue truce discussions)-218 votes

Should the U.S. pursue truce discussions with Osama bin Laden?
Yes 36%
No
64%

Total Votes: 218

[stepnw1f]

21. When American's Die Bush will Be to Blame

He is essentially giving Bin Laden a green light to attack.

[Village Idiot]

24. Who really gives a shit?

The tape is a FAKE, so any response to it is scripted BULLSHIT.

[rodeodance]

26. I do. I care that people (on both sides) are dying and injured. We need

to start a dialogue.

[Village Idiot]

29. How do you have a dialogue with an imaginary friend?

It's ridiculous. You might as well believe that 19 Arabs blew up the WTC with a couple of planes!!!

[rodeodance]

32. I do not see them as imaginary--not when 'they' kill/use bombs and

I see people die.

[stepnw1f]

28. Is It? Where's the Proof?

I think this "Fake" tape hurts Bush more than helps him.

[Village Idiot]

30. "Proof?" Proof of WHAT?

Proof that the tape is real, and not some voice-morphed piece of shit translated to Arabic from English by PSYOps?

They don't have any. Don't expect them to have any, either.

[stepnw1f]

50. So Why Believe a Theory that has no Proof

We have a tape that has been confirmed by the CIA and Al Jazeera. The burden of proof is on those believing it's a fake. I do however believe Bush would send out a fake tape, and I'm not saying it isn't possible, I just don't see a strong argument based on pure theory.

Besides... the trolls on another forum seem to parrot the same assertion you just made, so I am inclined to be very skeptical of this theory that it is a fake.

[rodeodance]

62. FYI--quotes about tape from the article

Nearly all of the video and audiotapes attributed to Mr. bin Laden in the past have turned out to be authentic. His voice, this time, sounded somewhat more labored, lacking the energetic quality typical of earlier recordings. There was also a pronounced echo as if he had been inside a room, in contrast to previous recordings that seemed to have been made outdoors or in large spaces.

Like some of his other recordings, this one made reference to recent events, including in this case to a report in a British newspaper in November that President Bush wanted to bomb the headquarters of Al Jazeera in Qatar, a claim dismissed by both the American and British governments.

The bin Laden broadcast comes just days after the United States launched airstrikes on a Pakistani village aimed at Mr. bin Laden's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri. Mr. Zawahiri was not at the site, but two senior members of Al Qaeda and the son-in-law of Mr. Zawahiri were among those killed in the strikes in remote northeastern Pakistan, Pakistani officials said.

[stepnw1f]

82. I Do Think the Tape is Real

I think it is BAD news for Dumya.

[rodeodance]

87. my gut says it is--and yes, bad news for JR et al--they are downplaying

it.

[rodeodance]

34. "I think this "Fake" tape hurts Bush more than helps him." I agree.

[rodeodance]

36. declarative comments such as yours really shuts down what could be

a fruitful discusion.

[rodeodance]

38. having said that, I do believe the tape is suspect. For me, the CIA

validated its validity too quickly. and I heard the FBI was taking a crack at it--but have not heard the outcome.

[rodeodance]

39. Should the U.S. pursue truce discussions with Osama bin Laden? poll

at Capitalnews.org


Should the U.S. pursue truce discussions with Osama bin Laden?
Yes 33%
No
67%

Total Votes: 333

[rodeodance]

41. Please nominate--as I think this an important topic for us all.

I know, I know--i started it--I have a stake in it. but....

[rodeodance]

42. another discussion thread that hits on some of this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x188761

[madmark]

45. pass on the truce; quit wasting time (people and money) in Iraq

and devote the resources and national focus necessary to kill this ahole.

[MakeItSo]

47. Let's hire an independent analyst to listen to the tapes

Like the scientists in Switzerland who said 4 years ago that they were "95 percent certain" that a tape the CIA claimed was OBL was in fact NOT OBL.

[rodeodance]

49. yes, that is an excellant path to pusue. We can pursue many paths at

the same time. Not only the 'truce' option.

[rodeodance]

48. Yes, we should focus our energy in Afgan--but what happens after

we kill the ahole?---My point is--this killing will go on and on. I would like to think that we as a country would at least say--yes, lets talk--lets give it try--lets listen to both sides of the story. Utopian?--maybe.

[madmark]

85. even if OBL had the most brilliantly thought out reasons for being

sidewise with the US, he became dead man walking when took his shot at us on 9/11 (and when he blew up our african embassies, and he blew up the Cole in Yemen, and when he took the first shot at the WTC, and when he blew up the Khobar Towers in Saudi, and when he supposedly arrange for the Somali firefights); that said feel free to understand his reasoning all you want. There's no harm in understanding someone that murdered thousands of your countrymen; understanding him will better enable us to kill him and snuff out the wahabi anti-west hate propaganda that fuels him and his followers. As far as ongoing entanglements with the middle east, paying for a Greater Israel, and reliance on oil as an energy source, I'm all for eliminating all of these US weaknesses (which may also coincide with purported collateral aspiration of OBL) because it in our best interest to do so regardless of what OBL wants.

[Hyernel]

51. Accept his truce offer, ask for a meetup, then put several rounds into him

Doesn't matter either way...Bushco controls Osama's message and activities.

[rodeodance]

54. I shake my head!

.....ccept his truce offer, ask for a meetup, then put several rounds into him............

[rodeodance]

60. but can you put a round into a dead soul?--M. Leeden says he is dead.

a rumor?



http://www.nationalreview.com/lopez/ledeen200601090808.asp

January 09, 2006, 8:08 a.m.
One Moment in Time
Our age of revolution.

There's an old Chinese theory according to which the best way to understand historical events is not to reconstruct the sequence of "causes" by which the events were "produced," but rather to look at the unique characteristics of the moment in which the events occurred. I know there's an old Chinese theory for most anything, but this one has stayed with me ever since I first read about it in an essay by Carl Gustav Jung, and back in the Eighties it occurred to me that Pope John Paul II had understood its wisdom. The pope once remarked that there were times when dramatic change was impossible, and at such moments anyone who tried to achieve it was like the fool beating his head against a stone wall. But there were other times when the acts of a single individual could change the world. He knew he was living at such a time, and he saw his mission as inspiring individuals to take those actions, and change the world for the better. That was one reason why his famous call, "be not afraid," was so right for those times, and why a handful of brave individuals famously changed the world.

This historical moment is not easy to understand, since we are in transition from a relatively stable world, dominated by a handful of major powers, to something we cannot yet define, since it is up to us to shape it. It seems clear, however, that there is a greater rapidity of change, accompanied — inevitably — by the passing of the leaders of the old order. This is particularly clear in the Middle East, where seven key figures have been struck down in the past six years: King Hussein of Jordan in February, 1999. King Hassan of Morocco in July of the same year. Syrian dictator Hafez al Assad in June of 2000. Yasser Arafat of the PLO in April, 2004. King Fahd of Saudi Arabia in May of last year. Ariel Sharon of Israel was incapacitated by a stroke in early January. And, according to Iranians I trust, Osama bin Laden finally departed this world in mid-December. The al Qaeda leader died of kidney failure and was buried in Iran, where he had spent most of his time since the destruction of al Qaeda in Afghanistan. The Iranians who reported this note that this year's message in conjunction with the Muslim Haj came from his number two, Ayman al-Zawahiri, for the first time.

...........
— Michael Ledeen, an NRO contributing editor, is most recently the author of The War Against the Terror Masters. He is resident scholar in the Freedom Chair at the American Enterprise Institute

[rodeodance]

64. now 34% say YES 963 votes.

capitalnews.org poll

Should the U.S. pursue truce discussions with Osama bin Laden?
Yes
34%
No
66%

Total Votes: 963

[rodeodance]

72. falling again.

Drats.

Should the U.S. pursue truce discussions with Osama bin Laden?
Yes 25%
No
75%

Total Votes: 1594

[lakercub]

67. If any of this is genuine

and it isn't, no truce should be had with Osama. He murdered far too many people to be allowed to walk away. I have always supported the action against Afghanistan because we had proof (from their own mouths) that their government had sponsored an attack on us. That kind of thing must be answered. I obviously would support truce talks in Iraq. Iraqis and others have killed many American soldiers, but we have, likewise, killed many Iraqis. The USA is more to blame for that situation than anyone. Frankly, an offer of truce from Iraq would be quite magnanimous as it our President who is the war criminal in that case.

The problem is that this whole thing is bullshit. Osama gets trotted out whenever Bush needs him to distract attention from the high crimes and misdemeanors being perpetrated by the administration. The more this happens, the more I think Bush knew all about 9/11 beforehand (and I've thought that for years). I try not to think people are capable of that level of evil, but he and his cronies prove it more and more by the day. It is becoming glaringly obvious that the Bushies have been coaching Osama all along. It is interesting that, as poll results show support for the "War on Terror" waning drastically, we now have Osama saying a truce is possible. The Bushies want us to think that their course of action had led to this weakening by Osama and that we should stay that course. We continually see Osama come out when Bush is in the deepest trouble. It has happened far too often to be coincidence. Take for example Osama's "endorsement" of Kerry. Was there ever a more obvious ply to get Bush votes?

What is most depressing, however, is that much of the population is too stupid to see what is going on. Bush and his cabal of evil should have been led away in irons years ago and then been offered blindfolds and cigarettes. Instead he still sullies the reputation of the country at every turn with seeming impunity. How much more do we have to take?

[rodeodance]

68. yes. it is far too convient. Yes--to say that bushco somehow is in

cahots with obl--well, I just cannot wrap that around my heard (yet?)


......The Bushies want us to think that their course of action had led to this weakening by Osama and that we should stay that course. We continually see Osama come out when Bush is in the deepest trouble. It has happened far too often to be coincidence.

[rodeodance]

69. if your contention is true--why would something this devistating to Bushco

be allowed in the tape?

......Regarding an American withdrawal, he said, "There is no shame in this solution which prevents the wasting of billions of dollars that have gone to those with influence and merchants of war in America who have supported Bush's election campaign."

[lakercub]

70. my hypothesis

......Regarding an American withdrawal, he said, "There is no shame in this solution which prevents the wasting of billions of dollars that have gone to those with influence and merchants of war in America who have supported Bush's election campaign."

First, I don't know that my theory is true, but it gets more plausible every time Bin Laden comes out. As for the referenced quote, it looks to me like they have Bin Laden parroting the lines the dems use. It is not particularly damaging to Bush to say that he has made the war merchants rich because the same thing has been said over here. Also, that particular criticism never seems to gain any traction when the dems use it. If they want to make these Bin Laden tapes "look real," then Bin Laden has to criticize Bush. But if the criticisms are the same ones that failed to resonate when the dems used them, then Bush and his cadre can't be overly worried about Osama using them. Also, since the public hates and distrusts Osama, they view anything he says with skepticism. The public is not bright. If Osama says something, they believe the opposite, no matter what. Republicans do the same thing with dems. Any dem who puts forward a logical, common-sense approach to a problem will be vilified by the repubs just because he is a dem. It is amazing.

[rodeodance]

71. I had to chuckle--as you are prob. right. Yet, I guess I think/thought

the idea of making $$ off the war (while troops die)--was just to serious a contention to play around with, much less insert into the tape. maybe--

....The public is not bright. If Osama says something, they believe the opposite, no matter what. Republicans do the same thing with dems. Any dem who puts forward a logical, common-sense approach to a problem will be vilified by the repubs just because he is a dem. It is amazing.

[lakercub]

74. You would think it would be

the most serious charge imaginable. Treason resulting in thousands of American deaths really ought to be something that is discouraged (to put it lightly). Yet he has skated by it time and again. It's too depressing for words.

[rodeodance]

76. suspose that is why it flies over so many heads-too painful to admit.

[Moosepoop]

92. Now the repubs will declare that any mention of war profiteering

equates the person(s) saying it with Osama himself.
"You are pointing out that the Pretzeldent's friends are making bazillions off of this so-called war on terror while our troops and innoncent Iraqi civilians needlessly die?? You are making the same statement as Osama Bin Laden, you must be a terrorist!"
Bet me, they'll use OBL saying it as a way to dicredit the truth of it.

[lakercub]

73. One thing may be in our favor

If my theory is correct, Bush may be doing himself long-term damage every time he trots out Bin Laden. If the dems have any brains they will absolutely hammer the fact that Bin Laden is still alive to begin with. If the "War on Terror" is such a rousing success, how come public enemy #1, the man who did us the most harm, is still running around making tapes. This would seem to me to be political gold for the dems. If Bush is so wonderful then Bin Laden should be captured or dead by now. Hammer this point ad nauseum. Then Bush will be hurt by his own little distraction mechanism. That would be poetic justice indeed.

[rodeodance]

78. Too many people at time justify the diversion to Irag--therefore our

diversion FROM afgan--or they link it thinking they are one and the same. Thus, for Dems to argue that Bush did not pay attention to obl does not 'ring' with these people (the link between iraq and alquida/obl is Still ALIVE for many). They 'see' them as one and the same.

.....If Bush is so wonderful then Bin Laden should be captured or dead by now. Hammer this point ad nauseum. Then Bush will be hurt by his own little distraction mechanism. That would be poetic justice indeed.

[killbotfactory]

84. We can't let terrorists influence our actions either way

Once they know how we will react to them and their actions, they can control us.

[rodeodance]

86. Think of how they are controling us already--esp. the Admin--and that

dribbles down to all of us.

[rodeodance]

90. Should the U.S. pursue truce discussions with OBL?-Yes 25%, Votes: 2623

capitalnews.org

Should the U.S. pursue truce discussions with Osama bin Laden?
Yes 25%
No
75%

Total Votes: 2623

[Igel]

95. The title is inaccurate--not the OP's fault.

The MSM and nearly everybody else has read the passage for its import, not what it actually says.

UBL, real or fictitious, did not offer a truce, assuming that the translation on the AJ webside is correct. Hence the lack of conditions. He said he'd be willing to accept a truce, if the conditions were fair. This places him, and AQ, in a position of having the US express respect and humility or humiliation, and him in the position of being the tolerant, merciful, but ultimately powerful emir, his authority to negotiate for the Muslims being claimed by him and acknowledged by the US. Hence the lack of fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq would be due to his intervention, and he would thereby be able to assert some sort of authority and claim respect.

There is much to be said in a culture that values honor for having the US come asking you for a truce, and your rejecting the petitioner's terms (once? a dozen times?) until they suit your unexpressed conditions.

In any event, if it's a hudna he's asking for--and I must say that I do not understand Arabic well enough to listen to the tape and get much out of it--under Salafist interpretations such truces have a prescribed, Qur'aan-mandated time limit and purpose.

On edit: I, for one, think that this is grounds for *not* thinking the US government is behind the tape. It's a nicety that everybody has overlooked as trivial and irrelevant, but which is unlikely to be a mistake.

[DuaneBidoux]

96. Bush is an idiot--but there can be no truce with OBL