California City Bans Even Outdoor Smoking

[RedEarth]

The city of Calabasas, Calif., has passed one of the nation's toughest antismoking laws, including restrictions on smoking in outdoor public spaces, the Los Angeles Times reported Jan. 21.

The city has banned smoking in outdoor public spaces when other people are present. Nonsmokers who ask smokers to put out their cigarettes but are refused can file a complaint with the city attorney's office.

"Everything is forbidden here," said Tal Genin, a smoker. "No skateboarding, no rollerblading; you can't swim in the lake. It's like 'The Truman Show': Everything looks really nice, but you can't live life."

Mayor Barry Groveman defended the law, saying he hoped it would prompt restaurants, malls, and other businesses with outdoor public spaces to create separate outdoor smoking "outposts."

"We are not trying to pit neighbor against neighbor," Groveman said. "We're trying to do this in the least punitive and least disruptive way. But we mean it. We hope that people who believe in their right to smoke equally believe in a person's right to breathe clean and healthy air."

http://www.jointogether.org/sa/news/summaries/reader/0%2C1854%2C578921%2C00.html

[stevedeshazer]

1. God Bless Amerika

Land of the free and all that. :crazy:

[slackmaster]

2. I wonder if there's an exemption for medical marijuana users

I smell a lawsuit coming. Oh wait, maybe that's skunk weed.

:hide: :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide:

[Charlie Brown]

57. It is interesting that a lot of progressives support legalizing drugs

but when it comes to second-hand smoke, you should be locked up. hypocrites.

[NaturalHigh]

58. That's because smoking is bad for you.

:sarcasm:

It's not as if I don't know that cigarettes are bad for me. Hell, the surgeon general's warning on the box practically says it will kill me.

Look for tobacco to be banned sometime in the near future, in the interest of "public health."

[Charlie Brown]

62. and drugs aren't?

'Look for tobacco to be banned sometime in the near future, in the interest of "public health."'

So social conservatives and autocratic liberals have joined forces to tell us how to live. Wonderful. They'll proably criminalize having sex one day for the same "public health" reasons.

How do you feel about marijuana?

[NaturalHigh]

74. I don't care about marijuana one way or the other...

but I think we have better things to do than bust people smoking a joint. I feel the same way about cigarettes. It's my business if I want to smoke. I don't smoke in my house because of my kids, and I'm respectful of nonsmokers around me. I just wish others would respect my right to light up if I'm not bothering anyone besides my own lungs.

[Charlie Brown]

78. I agree

It's our own business if we want to smoke, and it's a waste of time to cite people who light up, especially out doors. Is it so much trouble for those offended to walk somewhere else?

[NaturalHigh]

75. By the way, check out what Washington wants to do.

Smoking would be banned even in private clubs. I'm telling you, the ban on tobacco is coming somewhere down the road, and it's coming sooner than people think.

Washington Smoking Ban Would Be Toughest in Country



So social conservatives and autocratic liberals have joined forces to tell us how to live.



More and more every day, unfortunately.

[MADem]

77. Well, then smokers will just have to get good 'n drunk, I guess!!!

Land of the free, indeed!!!

You have to wonder if everyone started smoking banana skins if they'd be all over folks for that too...or is it just tobacco that is the problem? How long before they outlaw campfires and burning logs in the fireplace???

[htuttle]

3. Can people still drive cars there?

Huh. Go figure.

[slackmaster]

4. Only ones that don't smoke

Leave your beloved diesel Peugeot at the city limits.

[merwin]

9. One thing at a time... Can't get rid of all pollution at once!

It has to start somewhere.

It would be like saying we shouldn't impeach Bush/Cheney because there will still be rampant corruption in the administration.

[400Years]

13. I guess rollerblades pollute as well, fact is this is not about pollution

but social control

[AngryAmish]

34. When you exercise your output of CO2 increases

So, don't move fast. We must control greenhouse gasses, you know.

A boot stepping on a human face forever. When they came for the jews...

[ninkasi]

5. Sometimes, though, laws and rules are strange

I know of a very upscale B&B, which forbids cigarette smoking in the bar area, but invites customers to enjoy smoking fine cigars. Isn't smoke smoke, or is some smoke worse than other smoke?

[demigoddess]

6. one cigar equals one pack of cigarettes.

guess they cant do the math

[TX-RAT]

18. How did you come up with that figure.

Also you might note.
Very few people actually inhale cigar smoke.
I've been a cigar smoker for over 25 years. Good hand rolled, not junk.

Interestingly enough, the only smoke i find offensive around here is fire place smoke.

[400Years]

26. not inhaling is impossible according to the 2nd hand smoke theorists

[TX-RAT]

30. I would agree with that.

Lets just say, theres an extreme change in density.

[IA_Seth]

43. Impossible.

I am not arguing your premise...cigar smoke might be worse, whatever...I don't know.

But to say one cigar equals one pack of cigarettes can't possibly be true. There are so many types and sizes of cigars, as well as cigarettes...

[William Bloode]

7. Allow cigars over cig's pretty much reeks

Of elitism.

[enid602]

8. pollution

And yet they get brown lung from standing out on the corner. Go figure. If these people ever want to get serious about health, they'll curb automobile emission to the absolute minimum.

[longship]

10. Smoking outside is forbidden,

but smog and pollution are not a problem in California.

[nolabels]

63. And don't even think of farting into the wind

I think they should require everyone to smoke tobacco. Back in the sixties when so many people did it seemed the world was a little more stable and contemplative of other people (even though the smoke in the eyes sucked).
No more chill pills and your neighbor is fair game if you can get a bead on him :scared:

[Tight_rope]

69. Yeah farting into the wind could get you 10 - 20 years in prison!

[400Years]

11. jackasses also banned skateboarding or anything else fun

morons

[Kolesar]

38. WTF is this place, Singapore?

[Sequoia]

45. Is right down the mountian from Topanga Canyon

in Southner Cal. The valley were it gets really smoggy in the summer. All that smog and you can't smoke outside. What a real drag. I'm glad I don't smoke anymore or I'd really be mad. Oh, and if I had to live there of course. Singapore would be kinder to smokers I'm sure.

[barb162]

54. why, did they outlaw gum-chewing too?

[Kolesar]

64. That was the analogy I was making, barb

[lynne]

12. HIDE YOUR LIQUOR!

Trust me, they'll be coming for it next.

[Bandit]

40. You mean they can drink liquor out in Public

and not in a designated location? Let's Party!!!!

[lynne]

48. Smoking has been banned in restaurants, bars and outdoors -

- I drink in all three places. UNTIL someone comes for my beer, too. And don't think they won't.

[Imalittleteapot]

14. When are they going to ban

CARS? We hope that people who believe in their right to drive equally believe in a person's right to breathe clean and healthy air.

[Sandpiper]

15. The next time an 18 wheeler belches out a black plume of diesel exhaust

I'll breathe deeply and be thankful that at least it's not cigarette smoke.

:eyes:

[Fridays Child]

16. Interesting that the burden is on the non-smoker to make the request...

...and to file a complaint if it's not honored. I wonder how well that will work.

[Sandpiper]

19. I also wonder how vigorously the City Attorney

Would actually pursue these smoking complaints.

I just don't see the City Attorney spending alot of city dollars and resources to determine if someone smoked or not. Especially since it would mostly be an issue of he said/she said.

[Fridays Child]

20. That's just what I was thinking.

:)

[Lance_Boyle]

21. interesting question.

AFAIK, one is not required to identify one's self to perpetually offended smokenazis on demand. I foresee a bunch of complaints being filed against Heywood Jablomi and Oliver Closeoff.

[Sandpiper]

25. LOL

AFAIK, one is not required to identify one's self to perpetually offended smokenazis on demand. I foresee a bunch of complaints being filed against Heywood Jablomi and Oliver Closeoff.

:rofl:


Don't forget about Mike Rotch and Amanda Hugandkiss!

[Fridays Child]

29. Took me a second but...

:rofl:

[IA_Seth]

44. That's what I was thinking...

If someone was bothering me for my name to file a "smoking in public" complaint he would soon meet the real me...

Phil McCracken.

[newblewtoo]

51. Hey dude .....

can I have your name for my complaint? Say what ya going to do with that tire iron???
Yea this is going to work out swell.

[moriverrat]

17. Big Drug's Nicotine War

http://www.forces.org/evidence/pharma/index.htm

[moriverrat]

22. Pharmaceutical Multinationals: Buying Governments, Selling Anti-smoking

http://www.forces.org/evidence/money/introph.htm

[400Years]

23. Prohibition all over again really

[KT2000]

24. Pesticides!!!

Bet their perfect community is sprayed with tons of pesticides - the more the better.

[lumpy]

28. Barbecues, fireplaces, field burning, vehicles,

but cigarettes are the worst offenders?

[TX-RAT]

33. You forgot

Gas heating of air for heating, water for bathing, stoves for cooking. But you pretty much covered it

[Synnical]

27. This is stupid - file a complaint?

How are you going to know who to file the complaint against - unless it's someone you know personally? Waste of time and money.

[AngryAmish]

35. You must inform on your neighbor

Isn't that what good government is all about?

[Child_Of_Isis]

31. "We are not trying to pit neighbor against neighbor,"

Really? :eyes:

[LibDemAlways]

32. "You can't swim in the lake"

You wouldn't want to. The "lake" is a man-made, smelly, algae-ridden mud hole that only homeowners who live directly on it (or adjacent to it) even have access to.

As far as breathing "clean and healthy air," Calabasas is on the fringes of the often smog-ridden San Fernando Valley. The air isn't very clean to begin with.

As far as smoking goes, the only place smokers can smoke in California besides their own homes and cars is outdoors. I don't smoke and I don't like being around cigarette smoke, but when I see someone smoking outdoors in a public place, I try to position myself away from it. It's usually not a big deal.

[truthInCO]

36. Turn in your neighbor

Nonsmokers who ask smokers to put out their cigarettes but are refused can file a complaint with the city attorney's office.

Sweet! I can turn in any smoker that doesn't listen to me and immediately put it out! Maybe we can run around with camera phones photographing and exposing them publicly. What fun. :sarcasm:

[superconnected]

39. actually, what next.

reporting your neighbor is of course what the facists did.

This is sickening. They should know better than to go down that road. I doubt they care.

[regnaD kciN]

47. Maybe not "your neighbor"...

...but I was sorely tempted to file a complaint about a computer store here in Maple Valley last weeekend.

The law here in Washington state is that smokers must be 25 feet away from the entrance to a business. However, when I arrived, a sales clerk and one of his pals were leaning against the front window a foot or so from the door, puffing up a storm right at the door. There was no way to enter the place without getting gassed. I gave them a dirty look, but that was about it -- they returned it with "fuck you -- what are you going to do about it?" expressions.

Needless to say, I didn't buy anything there, and don't plan to return.

[truthInCO]

71. power of choice

Shoot that store manager a note that you will never shop there again because of your experience. They may take your complaint seriously if they know it will hit their pocketbook. Similarly, continue boycotting bars that allow smoking.

Bars and restaurants here in CO that ban smoking aren't going out of business, they just have a different clientele now. The places that do allow it have a higher concentration of people 'gassing' each other.

Smoking disgusts me, but not as much as totalitarionism does.

[Up2Late]

37. Not LBN, this is an edited ditortion of a L.A. Times artical from Saturday

Januart 21, 2006. Here's the link to the original:

<http://www.latimes.com/features/health/medicine/la-me-calabasas21jan21,1,6005449.story?coll=la-health-medicine>

January 21, 2006
latimes.com : Health : Medicine

Calabasas Snuffs Out Public Smoking

Citing health concerns, the small West Valley city takes a stand that even some of its nonsmoking residents say may go too far.

By Amanda Covarrubias, Times Staff Writer

Nestled amid rolling hills on the western edge of the San Fernando Valley, Calabasas has become an unlikely trailblazer in the debate over secondhand smoke — and even some nonsmokers wonder whether their upscale suburb has gone too far.

The city of 30,000 this week adopted an ordinance — considered by experts to be one of the toughest in the nation — strictly regulating smoking in public places. The rule bans smoking in outdoor spaces when other people are in the area.

Backers argue that the campaign is just another step in improving their town's quality of life. But others say the rules go too far.

"Everything is forbidden here," said Tal Genin, a smoker and mother of two who moved to Calabasas from Israel four months ago. "No skateboarding, no rollerblading; you can't swim in the lake. It's like 'The Truman Show': Everything looks really nice, but you can't live life."

(more at link below)

<http://www.latimes.com/features/health/medicine/la-me-calabasas21jan21,1,6005449.story?coll=la-health-medicine>

[truebrit71]

41. This makes me laugh..."breathe clean and healthy air"...

...in order to do that first remove ones' person from the greater L.A. area...THEN worry about someone sparking up....:eyes:

So when do they ban the Harley's from starting up outside the Sagebrush Cantina? Surely that exhaust is more toxic than my ciggie....???

[onehandle]

42. Good. Big Tobacco loves the GOP.

Fuck them.

[slackmaster]

76. I don't smoke and think it's a nasty, dirty, disgusting habit

But your attitude is divisive. There are plenty among us who DO smoke.

[baby_mouse]

46. "We are not trying to pit neighbor against neighbor,"

Meaning that they are.

[northzax]

49. and what about the 'dedicated smoking outposts' the Mayor cites

can't someone simply walk up and ask them to stop? strange.

[Thor_MN]

50. Gee Tal, I'm thinking that it's not skateboarding or rollerblading ,per se

but the dumbasses that think they need to bounce off walls, grind on handrails, deny the space to others, etc. Not to mention the potential liabilities of morons using public and private spaces as their own "Jackass" set. I'm guessing here, but if I were a store owner, I wouldn't want my customers feel like they risking their lives to get into my store by darting through idiots zipping back and forth.

I'm not going to put forth much of an opinion on smoking - I don't care for addiction driven irrationalities.

[progressivebydesign]

53. I've seen so much public property destroyed by skateboarders.

The worst being a beautiful, hand-made mosaic sculpture.. this thing was beautiful, and massive, and meaningful. took a year to build.. and the areas that were even remotely accessible to a skateboard were broken and chipped. Santa Barbara, calif., lost so many historical walls and even walls of some historical building due to skateboarders. Most cities ban skateboarding on public property for that reason.. that and the fact that they are so rude and run people off the sidewalks. They are the ones that brought the laws onto themselves...

[progressivebydesign]

52. I sat outside enjoying the lovely day at a Starbucks, recently..

i purchased a bagel and cocoa, and was set to enjoy the day... until two chain smokers arrived and sat at the table next to me. They nursed one cup of coffee and literally lit ciggy after ciggy. Even when I moved to another table, the smoke kept coming over. They were smoking unfiltered Camels (tough chicks), and it was nauseating. I think restaurants should be able to ban smoking on their patios... and should so so. It's still a biz and people who don't smoke should be allowed to eat outdoors without having their meal spoiled.

[Wabbajack]

55. Good.

You have a right to stink up your private property. No where else.

[Fountain79]

60. So are we going to start charging...

for public emmissions of bodily gas?

[Buns_of_Fire]

61. All that methane eating a hole in the ozone layer...

Remember, cows pass gas with impunity, too. And they burp. I estimate that the conflagration caused by even one inconsiderate cow within a herd of 50 could eliminate a town of roughly 2,000 in one big fireball. (Maybe Condi intends to drop smoking cows on Iran, along with a few cases of unfiltered Camels.)

So far, the only thing that has saved mankind is the fact that cows haven't figured out how to use Bic lighters.

It therefore follows that the only long-term solution to our own survival is to eat all the cows. Or at least don't allow them to have cigarettes. And the next time a cow asks you for a light, RUN!

What were we talking about, again?

[Habibi]

79. I don't usually do this, but . . .

:rofl:

[Charlie Brown]

56. Der Smoke ist verboten!

I can't wait for all the anti-smoking taliban on this board to celebrate this.

[Fountain79]

59. oh man...

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


That's all I have to say about that....

[displacedtexan]

65. BBQ Grills and fireplaces must be next!

Just like smoking (secondhand variety), only they smell better.

[sendero]

66. Well...

....well, more tyranny of the majority. Laws like this are simply indefensible, I hope these morons get turned out come next election.

[QC]

67. Next: Ugly people cannot leave their houses without hoods.

Aesthetic pollution no more!

[SoCalDem]

80. There was a time when handicapped people WERE kept hidden

The whole world has gone nuts.. No one has one iota of tolerance for anyone else.. It's like we have regressed to toddler-time..

Where we live, most restaurants have added outdoor patio dining FOR the people who smoke..so you just watch.. the smoking nazis will suddenly develop a taste for outdoor dining, just so they can complain and get someone in trouble.. They LIVE for this stuff..

Surely there can be some accomodation made to share this planet..People around me do stuff every day that pisses me off and drives me crazy, but I do not attack them..

As I sit next to a Suburbo-Exploro-Hummer with one person in it, at a stoplight, I just roll up my window instead of inhaling the belching exhaust. I do not flip them off or give them dirty looks.. I just get away from them ASAP, and enjoy the thought that they are eating macaroni if they want to fill that beast up:)

[Tight_rope]

68. WTF..."Nonsmokers...can file a complaint with the city attorney's office."

How the hell are you going to file a complaint when you don't know the damn person's name.:spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:

[Bushy Being Born]

70. I've been trying to find out about this guy's political leaning

but his own sites are bland and unrevealing, and it doesn't say anywhere else I've looked either. Does anybody know? It wouldn't surprise me one bit if he's a Democrat.:banghead:

[anotherdrew]

72. meanwhile - the local toxic waste goes undelt with...

and the cars keep pumping out deadly exhaust... (it is deadly, smog kills)

[nini]

73. Rolling Hills Ca used to ban smoking in your own yard

but that was because of brush fire issues. You couldn't drive in your car either there because idiots would flick their cigarette out the window and start fires.

I'm not sure if that's still enforced or not, but it made a big stink there.

[rinsd]

82. Throwing a lit cig from a car is severely enforced.

Especially here in San Diego.

A younger co-worker got a $250 ticket and had to do community service for being seen doing so.

And you can report people you see doing it.

[JeffR]

81. hmmm

:smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke:

:popcorn: