Democrats in 2 Southern States Push Bills on Bible Study

[rodeodance]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/27/politics/27religion.html?_r=1&th&emc=th
January 27, 2006

Democrats in 2 Southern States Push Bills on Bible Study

By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK

WASHINGTON, Jan. 26 — Democrats in Georgia and Alabama, borrowing an idea usually advanced by conservative Republicans, are promoting Bible classes in the public schools. Their Republican opponents are in turn denouncing them as "pharisees," a favorite term of liberals for politicians who exploit religion.

Democrats in both states have introduced bills authorizing school districts to teach courses modeled after a new textbook, "The Bible and Its Influence." It was produced by the nonpartisan, ecumenical Bible Literacy Project and provides an assessment of the Bible's impact on history, literature and art that is academic and detached, if largely laudatory.

The Democrats who introduced the bills said they hoped to compete with Republicans for conservative Christian voters. "Rather than sitting back on our heels and then being knocked in our face, we are going to respond in a thoughtful way," said Kasim Reed, a Georgia state senator from Atlanta and one of the sponsors of the bill. "We are not going to give away the South anymore because we are unwilling to talk about our faith."

In Georgia, the proposal marked a new course for the Democratic Party. The state's Democrats, including some sponsors of the bill, opposed a Republican proposal a few years ago to authorize the teaching of a different Bible course, which used a translation of the Scriptures as its text, calling it an inappropriate endorsement of religion. The sponsors say they are introducing their Bible measure now partly to pre-empt a potential Republican proposal seeking to display the Ten Commandments in schools.
......

[rodeodance]

1. "I think teaching the Bible as literature is a good thing." says Dean

... Democrats in other states are moving in the same direction, jumping into a conversation about religion and values that some party leaders began after the 2004 election, when President Bush and the Republicans rode those themes to victory.

In Indiana, Democratic legislators are among the leaders of a bipartisan effort to preserve the recitation of specifically Christian prayers in the Statehouse. In Virginia, Gov. Timothy M. Kaine relied heavily on religious themes and advertised on evangelical radio stations to win election last fall; Democratic Party leaders have called his campaign a national model.

In an interview, Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, promised that Democrats would do a better job talking about values to religious voters. "We have done it in a secular way, and we don't have to," he said, adding, "I think teaching the Bible as literature is a good thing."

[rodeodance]

2. The headline is very misleading--as the Bible will not be used as the text

The textbook they endorse was the brainchild of Chuck Stetson, a New York investment manager and theologically conservative Episcopalian who says he was concerned about public ignorance of the Bible.

Mr. Stetson helped produce "The Bible and Its Influence" as the centerpiece of a course that seeks to teach about the Bible and its legacy without endorsing or offending any specific faith.

The textbook came to the attention of Democratic legislators in Alabama and Georgia through the advocacy of R. Randolph Brinson, a Republican and founder of the evangelical voter-registration group Redeem the Vote.

Mr. Brinson, who said he was working with legislators in other states as well, described his pitch to Democrats as, "Introducing this bill will show the evangelical world that they are not hostile to faith."

[punpirate]

3. Note that there're no similar courses proposed...

... to foster greater understanding of Hinduism, Shinto, Buddhism, Islam, Sufism or any other world religion.

Poorly-disguised pandering is what this is.

[Judi Lynn]

4. At least as holy as thou, if not HOLIER than thou! Bare-knuckle Bible

thumping! Isn't this amazing? The Republicans are getting hopping mad about it, scared, apparently, some of the public they thought they owned might get the impression Democrats are just as "Christian" as they are.

From the article:

"Their proposal makes them modern-day pharisees," State Senator Eric Johnson of Georgia, the Republican leader from Savannah, said in a statement. "This is election-year pandering using voters' deepest beliefs as a tool."
(snip)

Let the general public see the Republicans explode with rage at the thought of having to share claims of piety with Democrats. It should be a real education in case anyone is still open-minded enough to notice.

[flordehinojos]

5. i wonder ...

i wonder what GOD thinks about the fact that HE or SHE is being sold as a bag of political goods! What a hurtful insult. How opportunistic of politicians, usually Republicans, in this case Democrats, mostly human beings who, like the bushes, don't care what the means are as long as they get to the end. The means justifies the ends. That is not what God is about. ... how sad that people who hardly kow God, hardly practice what God has wanted us to learn ... are now selling God to the highest bidder--the American public and the Diebold machines--

[Teaser]

6. If the book is as described...

this may be OK. I'm not thrilled at the lack of classes on the impact of other religions, though.

[drhilarius]

7. Why do i get the feeling that....

the "neutral" text will kinda gloss over little blips like the Crusades and the Inquisition?

[ingac70]

9. That is history, not bible.....

The bible has plenty of ugly things to read about without getting into all that.

[drhilarius]

10. Indeed, the bible is full of nasty stuff....

However, the article mentions the the textbook discusses the buy-bull's impact on history, and I'm fairly certain it won't be the most accurate depiction.

[ingac70]

8. If it is an elective, sounds like a winner to me!

Hopefully it will nip all that tampering with science classes in the bud.

Plus, anyone who actually reads and studies the whole bible word for word, will be so put off, it will help create more atheists!(take it from me, I went to a Baptist college),

[IndianaGreen]

11. Religion is the people's drug of choice!

We have seen how good Jesus has been at helping coal miners with mine safety issues.

:sarcasm:

[fasttense]

12. If the bible were written today it would be banned from class rooms

I'm serious look at all the war, murder, incest, slavery, murder, war, and murder in it. When at twelve I read the bible from cover to cover, I was dumbfounded. It was full of murder, hate and injustice. I didn't expect that from a religious book. This is the best we could come up with to reflect god? It was very disappointing.

[tinymontgomery]

13. Why do repubs hate christianity?

These two dems should be screaming at the top of their lungs that the repubs are attacking christians, hate america etc!

[Bridget Burke]

14. The question is NOT whether the Bible will be taught in Public Schools

It's already being taught in these two states & others. But the Democrats are favoring an alternative to the course created by the National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools. Dr. Mark Chancey, who teaches biblical studies at Southern Methodist University, critiqued the NCBCPS course for the Texas Freedom Network.

The group's Board of Directors, Advisory Committee, and endorsers make up a virtual “who's who” of the religious right, including the American Family Association, Concerned Women for America, Eagle Forum, Focus on the Family, WallBuilders and the Texas Justice Foundation. Many of these groups oppose the separation of church and state and assert the primacy of Christianity in this nation’s government and legal system.

The NCBCPS curriculum goes beyond a study of the Bible as literature or a description of the importance of the Bible for beliefs and practices of religious groups. It, in fact, improperly endorses the Bible as the “Word of God.” It also attempts to persuade teachers and students to adopt views of the Bible that are common in some conservative Protestant circles but rejected by most scholars. While such views are certainly appropriate for individuals or religious groups, public schools should not present them as fact.

The curriculum almost exclusively reflects views held by certain conservative Protestant groups. The role of the Bible in Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Christian thought receives little attention.

The curriculum depicts the United States as a historically Christian nation. It even erroneously implies that historians generally believe that the Bible, even more than the Constitution, is the nation’s “Founding Document."

www.tfn.org/religiousfreedom/biblecurriculum/execsummary/

Here's what the NCBCPS has to say about the course promoted by the Alabama Democrats:

Adding to citizens’ concerns is the fact that the subject textbook, The Bible and Its Influence, has created controversy since its publication this fall. The book, published by The Bible Literacy Project, and endorsed by liberal and secular organizations such as People for the American Way, the ACLU, and the Council on Islamic Education, has come under fire from conservative scholars and Christian organizations because many passages are critical of Christian doctrines and encourage students to question their faith and God’s character, rather than remaining neutral.

You can link to this .pdf press release here. www.bibleinschools.net/sdm.asp?pg=nud

Again--the Bible is already being taught as an elective in public schools. The Democrats are promoting the more reasonable curriculum.

[AUYellowDog]

15. Such a bill passed the Alabama house

On a party line vote. Dems supported and Repubs opposed. Funny thing is, the College Repubs sent out a press release endorsing the bill right before the vote.
In Alabama they are making it an elective class that highschoolers can take, which I have no problem with allowing people to choose such a class. It's also not teaching that the Bible is the truth, but the Bible's influence around the world, which I think most of us, regardless on what we think of it, can agree that it's probably one of the 3 most influential books in the history of the world. I can't come up with any two others that are even near it, except for Locke's Treatise of Government or Smith's Wealth of nation, and both of those are relatively new.

Brandon

[superconnected]

16. interesting

"Their Republican opponents are in turn denouncing them as "pharisees," a favorite term of liberals for politicians who exploit religion."

What do they call Republican politicians who exploit relgion?

The problem with teaching the bible in schools, is the interpretation can be twisted all ways. The book these dems want sounds fine but as soon as they let religion in, I think it will go too far in many areas, and this choice of book will be left out/switched eventually for more extreme books, the Bible included.

Do you really want Jonny studying Deuteronomy and Leviticus. What if he decides to practice it. Cut off your limbs when they offend God and kill, then rip limbs from your wife and send them to every corner of Israel, when they practice sex outside of marriage, but first put them outside and invite all men in the neighborhood to rape them for a night. Oh, and kill the Gays. No thanks.

[progressivebydesign]

17. They're deluding themselves thinking it's going to be taught as literature

Case in point. My daughter is in the "religions" section of her social studies/english class in high school. They are supposed to be learning about other religions, and christianity, of course. They are studying the books... so far The Bible and the Hebrew Bible. Nothing about the Koran, or anything else... AND.. the teacher is doing things like assuming all the kids know how old jesus was when he died, and is saying things like.. 'well, we all know that jesus threw them out of the temple', etc. As if all the kids are christians and know the bible. Well.. we're not christians, so my daughter is struggling because the teacher is teaching it like a preacher. And she wears a LARGE cross necklace, and often cross earrings. It is not the way she should be teaching this unit, but we've found that as much as some people complain (even in our small town) to the newspaper that liberal teachers are "poisoning young minds", that the born-again christian teachers are shoving religion into any class they can get away with. Teaching a course like that just INVITES evangelism, and why would high schools and younger NEED a literature class based on ONE BOOK??? Sorry.. but that's so fucking backwards. College, yes! High School? Jr. High? No. They barely have enough money or time for general classes that encompass a variety of books. Anyone who is involved in public educations knows what I'm talking about... It's just a scuzzy way for the christians to insert themselves into public schools. Why don't they just leave us alone? Why don't they put their children in private RELIGIOUS schools? Welcome to the fucking taliban .

[papau]

18. Democrats in 2 Southern States Push Bills on Bible Study(shed secular imag

Efforts in Georgia and Alabama to shed the secular image often associated with the National Democratic Party.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/27/politics/27religion.html?_r=1
January 27, 2006

Democrats in 2 Southern States Push Bills on Bible Study

By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK

WASHINGTON, Jan. 26 — Democrats in Georgia and Alabama, borrowing an idea usually advanced by conservative Republicans, are promoting Bible classes in the public schools. Their Republican opponents are in turn denouncing them as "pharisees," a favorite term of liberals for politicians who exploit religion.

Democrats in both states have introduced bills authorizing school districts to teach courses modeled after a new textbook, "The Bible and Its Influence." It was produced by the nonpartisan, ecumenical Bible Literacy Project and provides an assessment of the Bible's impact on history, literature and art that is academic and detached, if largely laudatory.

The Democrats who introduced the bills said they hoped to compete with Republicans for conservative Christian voters. "Rather than sitting back on our heels and then being knocked in our face, we are going to respond in a thoughtful way," said Kasim Reed, a Georgia state senator from Atlanta and one of the sponsors of the bill. "We are not going to give away the South anymore because we are unwilling to talk about our faith."

In Georgia, the proposal marked a new course for the Democratic Party. The state's Democrats, including some sponsors of the bill, opposed a Republican proposal a few years ago to authorize the teaching of a different Bible course, which used a translation of the Scriptures as its text, calling it an inappropriate endorsement of religion. The sponsors say they are introducing their Bible measure now partly to pre-empt a potential Republican proposal seeking to display the Ten Commandments in schools. <snip>

[geomon666]

19. So screw the Jews and Muslims and everyone else!

They never really affected history anyway. :eyes:

[papau]

21. Teaching History is wrong if every variation of every religion is not

mentioned?

[greyl]

23. strawman. nt

[geomon666]

28. Yeah....

Especially if it's in a public school. All or nothing. Shouldn't be going to a bible class to learn history anyway.

[leftstreet]

20. "a new course for the Democratic Party"

I certainly hope not. This would only pave the way for a third party. What the fuck are they thinking?

[greyl]

22. There's a a thread on the DU homepage about this. :)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2396798

[papau]

24. Good catch - I missed Madfloridian's post - thanks for the heads up

From her post

madfloridian (1000+ posts) Thu Jan-26-06 11:15 PM
Original message
Dems want to have some Bible classes in schools...GOP cries foul.
I started to scream when I first read this, but when I saw the GOP calling them Pharisees and read some of the quotes...well, I realized this was really getting their goat. The Democrats are blatantly taking their issue from them, Dean says it is good idea...and they don't like it. IMHO, perhaps studying the Bible would lead to more understanding of it...lead to seeing the better more sensible parts instead of all the hatred.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/27/politics/27religion.html?_r=1

And some comments to het post

Comparative religion is a wonderful idea. stickdog Jan-27-06 10:21 AM #136

It is studying the Bible as literature, not teaching it as a religion.

And there a lot more - a great read!

[greyl]

25. You're welcome - it was early this morning.

Your quote from stickdog is irrelevant to the facts, though.

[Xenotime]

26. This is outrageous!

How did this happen?

[happyslug]

27. This was handled last week in this forum

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2038679

Bridget Burke provided the following citations:

Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Jan-13-06 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
7. There are 2 competing Bible Curricula......


The one the Conservative Christians are fighting is the less fundamentalist option. This article gives more detail:

www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=...

The Bible Literacy Project has produced a book that uses excerpts of differing translations of the Bible. It's been approved by representatives from most Christian denominations & some Jewish scholars, as well. (It's the one that was rejected.)

www.bibleliteracy.org/Site/PressRoom/Press20050922/Pres...

The Conservative Christians prefer the curriculum from National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools. (Per the article I posted.) Here's their website; check out the links.

www.bibleinschools.net /

The Texas Freedom Network had Dr Mark Chancey from Southern Methodist University critique the NCBCPS's text.

The NCBCPS curriculum goes beyond a study of the Bible as literature or a description of the importance of the Bible for beliefs and practices of religious groups. It, in fact, improperly endorses the Bible as the “Word of God.” It also attempts to persuade teachers and students to adopt views of the Bible that are common in some conservative Protestant circles but rejected by most scholars. While such views are certainly appropriate for individuals or religious groups, public schools should not present them as fact.

The curriculum almost exclusively reflects views held by certain conservative Protestant groups. The role of the Bible in Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Christian thought receives little attention.

The curriculum depicts the United States as a historically Christian nation. It even erroneously implies that historians generally believe that the Bible, even more than the Constitution, is the nation’s “Founding Document” .

The text was also found to be full of factual errors, shoddy research & plagiarism.

http://www.tfn.org/religiousfreedom/biblecurriculum/execsummary/

I'm not sure that Public Schools need Bible courses at all. But, if they insist on offering them as electives, the rejected course is far superior to the other.

[Bridget Burke]

30. Thanks! The "rejected" course is the one the Dems are supporting.

This happened in Odessa, I think. They went with the NCBCPS course, which teaches that the King James Bible is the inerrant word of God. And the Bible is the Founding Document of the USA & all Western Civilization, as well. Plus other drivel.

The Bible is already an elective in Public Schools. Not that I think our overstressed schools need the course. But the curriculum the Dems are supporting is better than the NCBCPS's.

[magellan]

29. I oppose this race to the bottom

"The Bible and Its Influence"? There's an obvious and far more urgent need to educate the children of this country on the laws that founded it...complemented by a course on critical thinking.

It alarms me to see Dems hypocritically lowering the bar, yet again, just to compete for votes.

[Up2Late]

31. THIS IS GREAT! I FULLY SUPPORT THIS! Way to go Dems!

Note: I am a Confirmed, but Former, Roman Catholic. I now consider myself a Buddhist (Tibetan School).

If you go back and read the article and NOT just the Headline, you might begin to understand.:woohoo: :applause: