Dell to Hire 5,000 People in India

[shugah]

Dell to Hire 5,000 People in India
Dell to Hire 5,000 People in India, Boosting Work Force in Nation to 15,000

NEW DELHI Jan 30, 2006 — Computer maker Dell Inc. said Monday it planned to add 5,000 jobs in India over the next two years, bringing its work force in the country to 15,000.

Dell is also looking to set up a manufacturing center in India, a move that could help boost the sale of Dell computers here, President and CEO Kevin Rollins told reporters after a meeting with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

~snip~

The other new hires will staff call centers in the cities of Bangalore and Hyderabad in southern India and Mohali in the northern state of Punjab. Also this year, the company plans to double the staff at its product testing center in Bangalore, which currently employs 300 engineers, Rollins said.

During his previous visit to India in April last year, Rollins had said Dell would make India a hub for its software development and back-office work.

Currently, the company has three call centers in India, a product testing center for corporate customers and a global software development center. Some 10,000 people are employed at these facilities.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=1556218

[Cooley Hurd]

1. Another red company stabs the US in the back...

Unsurprising...x(

[BlueEyedSon]

3. I will never buy a Dell product again.

[medeak]

79. ditto!

It's bad enough I can't get tech support with someone I can understand.

[saigon68]

2. They will work for $5 a day

[IndianaGreen]

4. and no benefits!

I wouldn't blame Dell for doing what other companies, such as General Electric, have done for years. GE closed down their warehouse in Indianapolis right after NAFTA passed, and transferred its workers next to its shipping and manufacturing facilities in Bloomington. GE then got the workers in Bloomington to agree to major pay and benefits cuts. A couple of years later, GE closed its Bloomington operations and moved the jobs to Mexico.

The Income Statement is America's Bible. Investors want their money. Corporations are under pressure to increase dividends. The only way to do that is by finding cheaper labor markets.

The problem is that many workers are now organizing against the capitalist exploiters, and succeeding because the US is bogged down in Iraq, unable to invade their countries.

The workers in India are on the same boat as the American worker. Jobs that went to Mexico after NAFTA are now going to other countries because Mexican workers are too expensive for our greedy capitalists.

[pokercat999]

65. The solution to outsourcing is a tariff on all imported goods

to bring the cost of goods in-line with those manufactured in the US. Including the cost of health care and a real living wage. A level playing field for American companies and the American worker.

[cannabis_flower]

78. And also...

These call centers don't import or export anything. They are service. Most of them are outsourced to another company and Dell would be paying the outside company. They are usually paid according to contract on either a per call or per month basis. Their needs to be a tax on these contracts. Although I am not sure how you would enforce honesty about how much service they do.

And by the way, I would guess that they don't have benefits but they do make a bit more than $5 a day. I saw a documentary about a call center in India. While US workers at call centers are usually paid anywhere from $10-$20 or more per hour, (I ought to know, I work in one) these workers in India were being paid the equivalent of about $3 to $4 an hour for a 10 hour day - without overtime - that would be about $30-$40 a day. It isn't much - but it's better than the $5 a day that someone here mentioned. Of course, this call center might be paying more than most. However, the cost of living in India is way lower and I've often wondered if it might be worth it to move to Mexico or India. They do need people who speak English.

[ikojo]

92. From what I've heard people in India tend to live with

their parents until they get married.

What India offers that many other countries do not is a VERY LARGE population who speaks English.

We hear how the US is the largest market, blah, blah, blah but corporations will turn their back on Americans as soon as even a small portion of Indian and Chinese society take on middle class American levels of consumption. Even if only ten percent of Indians and Chinese start consuming at the same levels as Americans, that's a lot of people.

[Deja Q]

86. Why not? That's a goldmine compared to the usual...

India's economy is booming because of it.

When our corporations push for the transition of the default currency from gold to (name it), is the day we all need to be afraid.

[ClintonTyree]

5. Another reason to never buy a Dell computer.............

as if I needed any more. Hewlett-Packard (Compaq) as well.

[bballny]

56. my last PC was a hp and it broke

next time I did not buy a HP instead a Toshiba is on my dsek

[pdurod1]

6. Dude,.. I won't be buying a Dell

IT people (or former IT people) tend to remember this shit.

[Generator]

55. No Dude..you are going to Delhi

[President Jesus]

7. complete list of Micheal Dell campaign contributions

link to list: http://www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_political_donations/Michael_Dell.php

donates 153-to-1 in favor of the GOP!

[theHandpuppet]

10. Michael Dell is a "close personal friend" of Bush

Not to mention a major contributor to the GOP and the Bushreich. ($250,000 to the Bush Inagural fund alone!)

[Tight_rope]

50. Well we know who is Daddy is! (Fahrenheit 9/11)

[marmar]

8. I was very close to buying a Dell...

and I'm very glad I didn't. Dude, I'm never gettin' a Dell.

[bleedingheart]

9. I laugh at all the Americans who buy Dell products

they are crap, they are poorly supported and Mike Dell is an ass...

[IndianaGreen]

11. How many computers and electronic gadgets are made in USA?

Where is the once great American industry?

[bleedingheart]

20. very few if any are produced here in the US

my husband and I assemble our own boxes in many cases...but the internal stuff is from all over the world...with some pieces made here in the US.

Last year my husband got a Sony laptop for use at work, the damn thing was a piece of crap. Meanwhile an HP laptop that we own is about 5 years old and made in the US (probably one of the last ones)...is still working.

[Lost4words]

12. to hell with dell

I have learned to REALLY dislike India.

[htuttle]

13. Oh, don't blame India -- blame US corporations

Given the choice, I'd rather see our jobs go to India than China. At least they're a democracy, and have a far better chance of eventually unionizing than China does (which is the only way to ultimately stop this global race to the bottom on wages).

Besides, they're hungry -- are they supposed to turn down the work?

I don't blame India at all. It's the greedy rich in the United States who can go fuck themselves...

[Deja Q]

82. If a spouse cheats, how much blame do you put on "the other (wo)man"???

Takes two to tango and India has no qualms in taking away our infrastructure while laughing in our faces...

Still, I think it'd be great if only the cheater was held responsible. I know three people I'd love to get jiggy with and hate the notion I'd be just as much to blame for my part in the affair. (:sarcasm: I've actually kept my distance despite temptation. I consider myself a halfway decent person and I will not break up a relationship; let them do it on their own. Single people are as open as they want to be; a relationship is a far more special bond that you do not break.)

Same for corporations. If they are American companies and choose to take government subsidy and take tax breaks, they shouldn't be offshoring one job. Period.

[OneBlueSky]

14. what's India doing that's wrong? . . . they're simply accepting . . .

new jobs brought to them by US corporations -- as most countries would . . . save your dislike for BushCo and their corporate partners who are taking good American jobs elsewhere to benefit their bottom lines and the pockets of their stockholders . . . in this case, that includes the very deep pockets of Michael Dell . . .

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[htuttle]

16. Hopefully you'll realize someday that you've got a lot more in common...

...with the 'Frank' from 'Punjab' on the other end of the help line than you do with Michael Fucking Dell.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bridget Burke]

34. "Indains" ???

Mad because they have better language skills than you?

[Lost4words]

47. Spelling !!!

OK so I'm dyslexic, dont get so alarmed, geeze

[manic expression]

70. Are you serious?

No, seriously, are you serious?

You don't like an entire race of people...WHY? GET A GRIP.

Oh, so you have so much "experience" now? Based on in-laws!? PLEASE! I have a GREAT amount of experience with Indians, and I can confidently tell you that your views are myopic, ignorant and effectively full of crap.

They have "your" job because a company offered them it. Don't blame them for any of this; blame the US companies that sent your job there and blame the government for letting them. To feel spite for the person simply taking the job that s/he is offered is as insane as it is misguided.

I really can't fully express how wrong and ignorant your views are, so I'm just going to have to settle with that.

[Bhaisahab]

98. I'm an Indian

What are you going to do? Evict me from DU? Punch me in the face should we meet? You musn't generalize man. Like I keep telling my friends in India who work in call centres - don't judge americans by the kind of inane insults they hurl over the phone. I point them towards DU to bust the myth of the 'brainless american' that is gaining ground in India.

Similarly, you must not brand all Indians with the same stereotyped brush. Fact is, most Indians love big-screen plasma TVs as much as most Americans do, they are as much in love with the nuclear bombs of the country as Americans are with their ICBMs, and yeah the majority of hindus in India hate muslims, just like the majority of white americans hate them.

Read about other cultures, and then read some more. You'll find that save the colour of our skins, there's nothing to separate us. we could all have been birthed from the same mother. and perhaps we are.

who knows man....

[Lost4words]

22. Frank from Punjab and Mdell have a way to earn a living, I dont!

so in this case Frank from Punjab and Michael Dell have the more in common than I do with either.

[manic expression]

71. No,

in fact, you and Joe Crustacean have more in common, as you are showing similar output of thought (my apologies to all crustaceans).

Frank from Punjab has more in common with you, as both of you are trying to find work. Michael Dell is laughing all the way to the bank as you show ignorance for an entire race because he moved American jobs to India.

[Lost4words]

21. Many so called Americans have gotten rich donig this

the future I wish for them is very different than my saying I dislike india of that you can be sure.

I do not blame Indains for taking advantave of a golden opportunity. But I have decieded that this is a group that I can dislike en masse.

And by being the tools of outsourcing they are aiding the enemy in a way, yes no!?

[Bridget Burke]

33. You've obviously got family issues....

No, the Indians are not to blame for outsourcing. US corporations are. Please--ensure that NO product or service you use outsources. If they start, send it in or stop the service. Let corporate HQ know exactly why.

Let me guess--you're one of the folks who get rude on tech help lines if you think you're not talking to an American.

"I have decieded (sic) that this is a group that I can dislike en masse." Racism? Xenophobia? Both?

[Lost4words]

43. I am not perfect, as you point out

but did you notice I said dislike rather than hate or any other emotion filled descriptor?

And yes I know my statements may sound and or indeed be raciest and xenophobic never the less it is a change of attitude that has come over me personally over the past decade or so as I witnessed the outsourcing wave. And through personal experiences.

So, you are right, you caught me venting from frustration.

And no, I dont get rude on tech help lines but I do get rude at the multitude of solicitation calls our home receives every day no mater what nationality they call from!

[Bridget Burke]

46. Perhaps your trouble in finding employment....

Comes from within. It's much easier to blame others, though. Even a whole country!

[Lost4words]

51. Well thank you for that kind note of support (-:

I can assure you I am not trying to assess blame, and I Think you might be mistaking my little hissy rant about India with my frustration with our nations leaders being asleep at the wheel.

Iraq, Economy, Katrina, Education, Poverty, Health Care, Election fraud,

Not to mention global climate issues.

Corruption has become commonplace and its open season on the American worker.

And for the sake of my ego, whats left of it anyway, I have been fairly successful in the span of my career, the past 5 have been the most difficult in finding work and the level of compensation has dropped dramatically. This is not just my observation but every member of my family and most of my friends as well.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saigon68]

102. Adios

[fujiyama]

42. Who is the "enemy"?

As far as I know, India is not considered an enemy to the US...

You've got some real issues.

[Lost4words]

45. I know, I am checking myself into an asylum later today

but at the very least I am not name calling.

[fujiyama]

49. You're accusing people of name calling

and you're openly stating "I have decided I don't like Indians".

If you want to hate a billion people, fine, but you've got issues. I'm not a big fan of racists and I'll call them out when I see them.

[Lost4words]

52. Good for You and as you should.

You are right and I am sorry my post incited you as much as it did, but try to get over it.

My momentary indiscretion shouldnt cause you to carry additional stress today. Save your wrath for those who are truly racists. It was an off the cuff remark, I was typing out my backside, so to speak.

And yea ,.... I' got issues, I've got lots of issues, I guess cause I am old.

If you dont have Issues ,as you call them, you're fooling yourself.

Oh and you can do allot to class yourself up by not calling people a f*ing idiot.
It adds nothing and only takes away from you. It does not get to me because I already know I am
f*ing idiot.

I am a F*ing Idiot for not saving every cent I ever earned because when I got older democracy would cease in my country and the rich would turn on the working class.

I dont Hate anybody fuj, hate is a word in your post not mine, my word was dislike, very different in meaning.

I respect your strong feelings on racism, I hope you speakout equally against all racism regardless of who the target is.

[Dogmudgeon]

104. Folks, let's not kick 8643 too much

The man is out of work and may be under much pressure. Lots of people go through what he's going through. I myself lost my last well-paying full-time job to outsourcing to India -- I was a programmer. I contacted hundreds potential employers, as far away as the opposite side of the country, and came up empty. It wrecked my life; I'm still broke. I didn't hate Indians, but the pressure was unbelievable -- and I'm not even married or have kids. If I was/did, I would have probably killed myself.

What 8643 has got is a bad case of reactive hate, not bone-deep KKK-style genocidal loathing. And we don't have to approve of it to avoid "countering" his hate with hate of our own. It may be acceptable for Liberals to turn the hate on haters, but that doesn't make it right, either.

Education and a sympathetic ear are usually enough to undo that kind of bigotry. He'll eventually -- probably quickly -- come to his abused senses. He then may be able to keep others from falling into the same pit that snared him.

Hate is contagious -- don't spread it around. One DUer is enough!

--p!

[manic expression]

72. You're not 'name calling'??

What do you call slighting an entire race of people? Healthy criticism?!?!?!

[Deja Q]

84. See my other post; it takes two to commit infidelity.

And that's what offshoring is. Infidelity; India being a real cheap slut.

Now before you take THAT out of context, consider this: The nanosecond when prices for necessities and wages in America match those of the Indians - who are prospering BIG-TIME right now, then we all end up sluts - but we all are able to survive because we would THEN AND ONLY THEN be in a TRULY globalized market. Right now, wages are going down but prices for necessities are NOT. This means the jobless end up with no money, no shelter, no food. Do you know what that equates to? Death.

We WOULD be economically competitive, but only when the cost of living adjusts with wages. It's a simple enough conclusion. So, hopefully, the cost of living will start to go down too.

But then, only NOW are the masses finally burbling over the oil problem (we DUers have known for a lot longer...) and even republicans are no longer keen on who they've voted for, which amazes me.

And I don't want to die so, like the Indians, I'll take anything I can get. I'm a bit of a sleaze too. :shrug:

[Skittles]

59. I talk to people in India at work, jobs that have been outsourced

mine will be outsourced too eventually - I have nothing against the people of India - they are just trying to do what we are trying to do - make a living, support their families.....the problem I have is with the executives lining their pockets; also, I cannot compete with people overseas for a job so that hardly makes this a "global economy" to me.

[endarkenment]

17. More benefits of neoliberal globalization.

Hey Friedman, you toady, tell me again how people, working people, right here in the USA are going to benefit by having our jobs exported to countries with 1/4 of our living standard? Huh? What? DVD players will be cheaper? What the fuck are we going to buy them with?

Meanwhile the manufacturing facilities being developed in the emerging industrial nations are environmental disasters, are unsafe, are non-unionized, provide few benefits to workers and pay miserable wages even adjusting for the lower cost of living in those countries. Who benefits?

[HughBeaumont]

27. DINO Friedman can kiss my ass

His stupid theories only barely work if you have occupations/careers REPLACING the offshored jobs, a problem which the US Right-run Corptocracy refuses to address or remedy on both the white and blue-collar sides.

[sarcasmo]

19. Kick to the top. I told Dell I would NEVER buy another computer from them.

One month exactly after our warranty expires the hard drive crashes. I had to call customer service and talk to, we will call him Jim. I, in no way could understand Jim's broken English, because he was not really Jim he was in India. Jim tried to walk me through changing a hard drive at midnight. Unable to understand Jim I gave up and went to the local computer shop. Dell is everything that is wrong with America. Outsourcing thousands of jobs and selling junk while offering terrible service. To HELL with DELL.

[Virginian]

94. Had the same problem with Lexmark printer...

Unsatisfactory tech support. They didn't know any more about the product than I did by reading the online documentation. THEY treated ME like an idiot and maybe I am for buying a product supported in India. The problem was never resolved. Threw out the Lexmark and won't buy another one.

[lovuian]

23. I won't be buying a Dell...

Terrible news......

[AzDar]

24. F*&k Dell, and every other U.S- based Company that exports jobs

out of greed, not necessity. How long will it take for them to figure out that if people have no jobs, they have no income with which to buy their crap??

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

25. Great news!

If you live in India.....................

[barb162]

26. another example of that quaintly called globalization killing US labor

layoff by layoff by layoff. That hiring should have been done here

[symbolman]

29. Well, they just lost MY new laptop purchase

my old one is getting too wonky so I'm shopping around, I need a monster laptop for video work, etc and was looking at maybe a Dell for the price, maybe an HP the ZD8000 keeps popping up as a good unit, then I go online and hear that they die in weeks or the very day the warranty is over.. PLUS to me it's ALL about customer service and from what I've been reading on the web I keep hearing that people who call HP get little or no help, get accused of breaking the computer when they take it out of the box after FedEx dumps it off.. HP will assume no responsibility for shipment damage, and that when you call you either get someone that doesn't speak english or they start charging you 3.50 a MINUTE to jack you around..

It's like talking to the Indian guy on the Simpsons..

Pisses me off to no end.. but now I KNOW I won't be buying DELL, not now, not ever, they've screwed the pooch this time..

Anyone who does video and has suggestions I'm open - I seem to notice that most hard drives on Laptops run at 5400 and you need 7200 if you expect to have a lot less problems..

I've had a Lifebook for three years now and the power supply is shorting out INSIDE the thing, so I don't want to dismantle it..

Can't someone make a power cord that LOCKS so that you can swing the machine around like a cat by the tail with no ill effects? It's worse for Macs, my wife has been through THREE power supplies in a year - I even fixed one with a pair of needle nose pliers and a little pinch :)

Any Video hardcore laptoppers out there with suggestions, it would be appreciated, can't go over a few thousand, maybe a little more if I KNOW it's worth it..

Meanwhile F*CK DELL.

Maybe that "retarded" guy they thought was so funny in their ads is running the company now..

[Sadie5]

30. My Dell days are definitely over

It will be US made or I won't buy it.

[Bridget Burke]

35. Which PC is made in the US?

With all US-made components, of course....

[Deja Q]

83. None, we exterminated our manufacturing base long ago...

Engineering is halfway down the shitter and IT is fleeing even more rapidly.

So, do these short term profits mean the twerps will haul their butts to India before killing us? Or will it end in global nuclear annihilation?

Probably the former, they do want to live, after all and the US is a real pig of a resource waster... still, who knows? It works either way or any number of scenarios I'm unable to fathom right now... and that's just it, we don't know.

[jsheriff]

31. Workers of the World Unite, Baby!

What happened to international solidarity? Jobs is jobs. Whether they're in India or the US.

[HughBeaumont]

28. Enjoy your brief stay.

Jobs are NOT jobs. If that were the case and if your corporate friends had their way, you'd be living in a cardboard box because THEIR standard (they can live like kings making 8 dollars an hour) would be YOUR standard (We CAN'T).

[endarkenment]

32. I don't think that was necessarily a freeptoid position.

Your point is well taken that the end result of the neoliberal outsourcing of manufacturing and services to emerging industrial nations will be a degradation of our living standards until we reach equilibrium with those nations. However, the people in India, China, South Asia etc. deserve good jobs at good wages as well. Whether the OP meant it or not, the solution eventually is going to require international worker solidarity to oppose the neoliberal nightmare.

[HughBeaumont]

37. Yes they do, but not at the expense of someone ELSE's economy.

When you deal with the free-market batty neo-cons, the corporations they run, and the neo-libs that support their position, it's either THAT way or the highway. "You MUST believe the free market WILL work" . . . but it's all BUNK if you have nothing replacing what's going out. It's all BUNK if the corporations aren't even willing to address that there IS a problem. It's all BUNK if there isn't enough widespread effort to care for the workers losing their jobs (both blue AND white collar) and less effort to build a strong manufacturing base in this country.

Worker solidarity needs to happen again and it would definitely be nice to see on a worldwide level, but face facts - American workers would most likely not join their foreign counterparts or emulate their robber-baron-busting union ancestors should the battle turn physical (which it NEEDS to, since diplomacy obviously doesn't work with people who have minimalized the modern unions and hold all of the cards). We've become too fat and civil and not nearly hungry enough. The embarassment and fear factors would set in, the "socialist" wet carpet mountain would be on their backs and the RNC media would go into overdrive to marginalize the message of workers and the unions fighting for their deserved rights.

[barb162]

44. There was an article in the Wall Street Journal

a few months ago that "regrettably" the jobs will keep disappearing here and end up elsewhere around the world and there was no way to stop it. The implications that it would destroy the US economy, labor force, prosperity, the middle and lower classes, etc., was there as a fact and regrettable. Our science and technology are not coming back here and our economy will in fact collapse and it is, you know, regrettable. I was watching some interviews with Ford workers who were forcing back their tears and they thought Ford would be coming back somewhere along the line and they'd maybe get their jobs back. Most people are clueless about what is really going on. The corporation chieftains and corporations are amoral and have as their goal, increase of stockholder value plus enormous benefits for themselves. As production, tech and science are shifted elsewhere more and more, there is only one result for this country. It's been going on for an easy twenty years and I expect the pace to keep picking up. People are also under the illusion that high tech and design are staying here and it isn't. People who think they are safe, like teachers, won't be, as their salaries depend on tax bases.

[tenshi816]

54. That's a very good point you make there.

I've backpacked through India, so I've seen it first hand. You'd be able to live well there on a tiny fraction of what it would cost to have a basic standard of living in the USA.

[fedsron2us]

60. You have obviously never tried to rent a flat in Mumbai

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4603636.stm

[tenshi816]

100. Obviously it's easier to be a tourist there!

I'm still betting Mumbai's an exception to the rule. India's still going to be, overall, a cheaper place to live than the USA or the UK.

[Deja Q]

88. Because we are a nation first. Would you starve yourself to feed others?

No.

So why is America starving itself?

Not out of altruism or even lower prices at walmart, it's deeper than that.

NOTHING is so glib, nor is it so black'n'white.

[dogfacedboy]

36. 15,000 AMERICANS should have those jobs. Period. n/t

[fujiyama]

41. Why because it's an "American" corporation?

No, Dell is a multinational corporation and doesn't give a shit about Americans.

[WhiteTara]

38. time to get those passports in order so we can go

to foreign countries to get our jobs back....at a much smaller salary, but at a lower cost of living.

[Endangered Specie]

39. Its called global competition

...and I still like my dell

[Daphne08]

63. In twenty years when you will be working for $2 or $3 an hour,

perhaps you will understand the real impact of global competition!

I wouldn't buy a Dell computer today even if they cut the price by half!

[Endangered Specie]

93. I didnt say I liked global competition...

course, the truth often hurts.

[Tight_rope]

48. Yeah about this, this morning...More Outsourcing...Just what we need!

[Rex]

53. Pennies on the dollar.

I wonder if Ford will outsource 25,000 new jobs to China or India? Just can't beat 14 cents an hour!

[carnie_sf]

57. Lending further credence to the old saw

The rich have no country...
I recall the old ad campaign from the 50s and 60s that said
"look for the union label". Sounds like better advice now than ever.
http://www.unionbuiltpc.com/umc.php

[area51]

58. Will the last job in America...

... please turn off the lights? </sarcasm>

It makes much more sense to offshore the CEO's job ... that's where the real cost savings can be found.

[MadMaddie]

61. So what is everyone's recommendation for a PC

So I have been tasked by my parents to conduct some research and help them find their very first computer. They mentioned Dell...but I told them from my experience with Dell products and their poor customer service I wouldn't be looking at them. My folks live in Kathleen, GA about 2 hours outside of Atlanta.

Any Computer Recommendations?

Thanks!!

[kurth]

62. Fuck Michael Dell and his crappy greedy company

[truebrit71]

64. Man I almost, ALMOST bought a Dell recently...

...so glad I didn't........ :grr:

[high density]

66. Tax cuts making more jobs!

For loving Indians!

[thelimey]

67. Just Testing, First post

Testing

[twaddler01]

68. outsourcing is evil

:cry:

[Yavin4]

69. Don't Blame India Nor The Greedy Corporations

The blame lies squarely on U.S. IT workers who did not form unions, and used their union's political power to protect their jobs and their incomes. U.S. IT workers throughout the 80s and the 90s were very arrogant. They believed that their "skills sets" would protect them from corporate abuse. They were wrong.

Outsourcing IT jobs could easily be stopped or amended. The government bends over backwards to protect agriculture from foreign competition. They could do the same with IT, but they don't. Why? Because U.S. agriculture has tremendous political clout. IT workers do not, and it's their own damn fault.

[Deja Q]

90. See post #89. BTW, labor creates ALL wealth...

I also prefer loyalty and do a damn good job. Unlike most in IT, I stayed where I was. Loyalty and devotion. Most Gen X'ers will hop, skip, and jump to whatever pays more (just how corporate execs are hoppingh, skipping, and jumping to any country that pays penny on the dollar...)

Jobs are also stressful and the more stressful the job means the more such work should be rewarded.

Here's a parallel: Security folks in airports make piss-poor incomes. I just wonder how loyal they are in their jobs, and how often they skimp on details because they're treated like shit... I'd expect turnover to be high as well - for the same reasons.

If somebody treated YOU like shit, how long are you going to sit there and let them do it, before you walk away in abject anger?

Are you in IT, BTW?

[Dogmudgeon]

105. Ri-i-i-ight

It would be easy to stop outsourcing. All we need is a Union. Because, as you know, Unions are doing so well now.

So ...

It was our fault.

We were arrogant.

Oh wait, it was because we didn't unionize!

No, I've got it -- it's our own damn fault!

Face it -- you read some of the overheated rhetoric about Silicon Valley and how all of us IT workers were driving around in Beamers and buying condos and showing up at work at noon and boinking all the hotties in town, and you found your new object of hate.

The reality for us rank-and-file IT workers was MUCH different.

But who cares about reality, anyway?

You don't know WTF you're talking about.

--p!

[Yavin4]

111. I Work in IT

And I see the arrogance every day. I see it at work. I see it in my classes. I see it online. I see it every where among U.S. ITers. Your ignorance of unions shows how brainwashed you are about union power. In CA, the municipal unions took Arnold head-on, and they kicked his ass. In entertainment, unions have fought hard won a ton of concessions for their workers. Yes, auto workers are losing their jobs, but they would have lost their jobs decades ago if it weren't for the unions.

[Chrisduhfur]

116. I am an arrogant IT worker.

I will never lose my job to an Indian. Why? Because I am damn good at what I do, lol... Plus it would be kinda hard to outsource my job to someone tens of thousands miles away. The union can stay away from me, I ain't paying them any dues.

[StrafingMoose]

73. Am I just too idealistic

or US IT workers should work for THEIR economy, Indian IT workers should work for THEIR economy ? Both sides should strive for better conditions in their own countries. I agree, maybe US IT community should have payed more attention to this by preventing trough unions this move, but why aren't the Indians doing the same over there to ask local employers to do better than foreign Dell's 4$/hr ?

I mean, this starts to look like a plan to turn the West into a global, cashless gulag where we will work for 0.10$ an hour, producing the services and goods for others that didn't have access to these for the last 50 years.

[fairandunbalanced]

74. The Out--> source of the high tech industry!

It been going on for sometime, Dell can pay engineers in india $6000 a year which is what a engineer makes in a month in the USA.

[lakeguy]

75. dell sucks. you may save a few bucks on their cheap crap

but you will pay for it in the long run if you ever have any problems and need to call customer "support". Spent 8-10 hours over the course of a week trying to get them to take back a hard drive I never ordered. That was three years ago and I haven't returned since.

for those looking for an alternative, try building your own. it isn't that hard...i taught myself. if you can post on the DU you can probably build your own! good luck finding american made parts though.

[demnan]

76. Like he said

I've got this Dell but from service I received when the time comes I'm going to my friendly hardware providers and I'll have them build one for me cheaper, better and with great service. Plus I'll be employing people who live in my community.

[thefool_wa]

77. I hate outsourcing

It should be illegal. F*ck what they say it will do to the economy. Japan doesn't outsource and they do just fine.

[Deja Q]

91. Very true. They also took advantage of OUR outsourcing...

I don't blame them either, even though they were "the other woman" at one point.

But they learned and adapted and outdo the US at every turn.

But the problem remains unaddressed.

Of course, some problems are cheaper to throw out - like a tv set gone bad because the idiot owner plugged the 110v set into an outlet marked 220v. I just worry that America is the TV set with the burnt out capacitor and is about to be bunged out the back door; the owners now fooling around with electricity in other countries...

[Art_from_Ark]

96. Actually, Japan has been outsourcing for a couple of decades

or more. It's known as "sangyo kudo-ka" in Japanese and literally means "hollowing out of industry". It became noticeable in the '80s and has been accelerating in some sectors, such as electronics. For example, 10 years ago I could go to nearly any electronics shop in Japan and find that nearly all the products were made in Japan. Today, the vast majority of the low-end stuff, and much of the high-end stuff, is made in China (or sometimes Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, etc.).

The same goes for clothes-- most of the stuff on sale at men's wear stores, shoe stores, family clothing stores, etc., seems to be made overseas.

Here's an overview of the situation, in Japanese (starts with Section 2):
http://www.ide.go.jp/Japanese/Publish/Report/pdf/2002_02_09_073.pdf

However, in Japan's case some of the work that had been outsourced is being repatriated. In some of these cases, though, very few real jobs are gained through repatriation since the newly repatriated factories are mostly automated, with just a skeleton crew to watch the controls.

But Japan does not seem to be outsourcing things like customer service call centers, in part because it would be next to impossible to hire a competent Japanese-speaking staff in a low-wage country and make a success out of it.

[medeak]

80. Apple? n/t

[Deja Q]

81. So much for reversing offshoring...

Meanwhile, I want to know where people hear that the offshoring trend is reversing...

[barb162]

110. It's not reversing

and anyone who says it is, is probably a corporation or foreign lobbyist who is doing it bigtime or encouraging it bigtime. THey try to get stories out that obfuscate what's really going on.

[HockeyMom]

85. Mr. SADDAM from Dell

Last summer my daughter was having problems with her Dell laptop. We called and they said a techie was coming to fix it, Mr. SADDAM, to be exact. Yes, I DID ask him. He played dumb. Didn't steak English very well. lol

Anyway, when he came to our house, I tried to watch him. Unfortunately, I didn't watch him enough. Her dad had given her a American Flag hand rest for the laptop. When Mr. Saddam left, the flag hand rest was GONE. He said he didn't take it, according to Dell.

We called and tried to get it back, but Dell would only reimburse us for the cost of the hand rest.

I couldn't make this up if I tried. Unbelievable!!!!

[Jayhawk Lib]

87. Why are they leaving the US?

I think the reason is simple. WE are the ones driving them over seas. They are getting a better value for their invested dollar out sourcing. It is up to us the American worker to give them a better value than going abroad.

Stop and think about it. There is only one reason for a company or corporation to exist. That is to make as much money as possible for the stockholders. It is not to be nice and provide jobs and health care for the workers. This is a cold, cruel, and nasty fact of life.

WE, and that means all of us, seem to be bent on making life as hard as we can for business through tough labor negotiations and through unreasonable government regulations. After a while all of this gets so burdensome that is is much easier to outsource offshore.

Putting high import tariffs on goods coming in may seem like a good idea and may work temporarily but in the long run screws up more than it fixes.

[Deja Q]

89. Utter bollocks. Oh, and I wouldn't mind living on $5/day either...

but prices of goods don't even begin to match that.

Yet prices of goods in India are a match and then some.

Their economy is booming. And that's because they can afford necessities and far more.

Our corporations gave us our economy. They made the wages AND the costs. They are as responsible as you or I. Probably more responsible; those with money have power. And we have no money when compared to them.


BTW: Deregulation is why we're so damn dependent on oil. Regulation ensures resources aren't overly used... :think:

[fujiyama]

106. I agree with most of your point

and at the heart of this, it's a political problem. The only way to stop the corporations from going overseas is to penalize them. But as we know, these corporations write all legislation. An outsource tax might be needed. In fact, this would be a very political smart move by Dems.

These corporations so far are saving a ton by moving overseas. The overhead is so much cheaper as are the wages. Any corporation that wishes to remain competetive will outsource to some extent. I don't believe it would be possible to stop all outsourcing from happening.

India and China are playing the game that the West set up. The treaties and intenational trade institutions were mostly set up at the behest of US based corporations. I suppose "US based" can be interpreted loosely. I really have no idea why anyone expected any loyalty from them.

Ultimately, India and China are the 'hot' outsourcing destinations and my guess is that the situation for us here in the US will get worse before it gets better.

But one issue not addressed in this thread is the failure of our education system. In the long run, we have to invest more in science and math education. I would not be surprised if India and China invested a greater % of their GDP on that than us. India and China are also NOT having disputes over 'intelligent design' and creationism in their schools (may not apply to IT and engineering but it still shows the appeal of anti intellectualism here in the US). Granted, the real advantage is in the numbers (even if they're graduating a smaller % of engineers it's still going to be more than us because of their population sizes). But the quality of those being produced can be greater than it is.

[StrafingMoose]

95. Uhh, yeah

I think the reason is simple. WE are the ones driving them over seas. They are getting a better value for their invested dollar out sourcing. It is up to us the American worker to give them a better value than going abroad.

Uhh, try to compete against someone who will work for way less than your minimum US wage. You really want to try that a year?

[sandnsea]

101. States authorize corporations

They're actually supposed to exist for some particular benefit of the people in the State. They are not supposed to be able to exploit resources, pollute and leave a starving group of citizens in their wake. Existing purely to make money for the stockholder with absolutely no consideration of any of their other corporate responsibilities is strictly Reaganommics and does not represent the values Americans expected of their corporations before that.

[fujiyama]

103. The problem is

when the SC recognized that corporations have the rights of individuals.

I recall hearing that they should have charters set forth by the states, but obviously that has never been interpreted that way.

I agree that they should not be "able to exploit resources, pollute and leave a starving group of citizens in their wake" but there's a lot of things they should and should not be doing. With the trade agreements signed by our own government and the trade organizations and treaties created (mostly at the behest of the US and US based corporations), I don't see any immediate and practical solution to this.

India and China are playing the game started by the West. If US lawmakers wanted they could try to reign these corporations in (by enacting tax penalties for moving previous jobs that were in the US), but those have to be some firm and strict tax penalties. The major problem is that any company that wants to be competetive is outsourcing to some extent.

[ShadesOfGrey]

118. Bravo! Couldn't agree more! n/t

[Dogmudgeon]

107. That's a joke post, right?

Irony -- it's the most popular form of humor in our age. Am I right, or am I right?

You really had me going there for a moment. I half thought you were going to advocate that we all volunteer to work without pay just to help out the poor rich folks.

That Jayhawk Lib! What a card!

--p!

[Daphne08]

108. Go back to your Republican masters! n/t

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saigon68]

112. Adios

Vaya con Dios

[zann725]

99. Great! Now when I call for Tech Assist., I won't be able to understand

a word being said by Tajib, who on the other end of the line, will keep putting me on hold for over a half hour (until I finally hang up in despair)...as he flips loudly through the Dell "user's manual"...trying to answer my question that he hasn't a clue either how to answer.

I've already had the same problem with Sony Tech.

[insane_cratic_gal]

115. They use fake names now like Bob with a english accent

to give the illusion your speaking to a english citizen of some sort.

Problem is, 90 percent of them don't know how to solve your problems, and the language barrier always seems to be a problem.

But i'm former help desk, outsourced to India so I might be a little biased and still angry about it.

I love the country.. love all things india, however, there isn't anyway we can compete with their wages and cost of living.

[Javaman]

109. See! there are jobs to be had, you just have to give up your..

American citizenship, move to another country, learn a new language and take a giant ass pay cut.

but hey, that's it, once you get over those little hurtles the rest is easy...

"hello, Dell computers!"

[loveandlight]

113. What computer company would be good to use then if not Dell?

I would like to stop using Dell, but what do I switch to? I see people complaining about other companies too, like HP, which I think has crappy computers. But what to use instead? Just cuious what people think are good computer companies to buy from. And going to Apple is not a choice for me. My office won't go there.

Thanks for any suggestions people can provide.

[insane_cratic_gal]

114. I'm shocked there are 5,000 people not working

there already! I thought dell had pretty much hired the entire country by now.

This is why I'm trying to get out of IT... I spent 20k on an education that was mute 3 years after I finished.

[HockeyMom]

117. I called Optimum today

First guy I got said his name was Alexi. Yeah, right. He then switched me to somebody's whose name I couldn't even pronounce. He spent about 20 minutues trying to add up what my new package would cost. If I had a CALCULATOR on hand, I could have done it faster myself.

Don't you just LOVE INDIA?

[The Governor]

119. Well, it's only a matter of time before Indians will be buying

a whole lot of computers.

I call it a good business decision.