Rumsfeld says Chavez rise 'worrisome' (compares Chavez to Hitler)

[allemand]

WASHINGTON (AFP) - US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said that the rise of elected populist leaders in Latin America like Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez was "worrisome".

Speaking at the National Press Club in Washington at about the same time that Chavez announced the expulsion of the US naval attache in Caracas for spying, Rumsfeld said the emergence of populist leaders through elections in Latin American was "worrisome."

"You've got Chavez in Venezuela with a lot of oil money," he said. "He's a person who was elected legally just as Adolf Hitler was elected legally."

"And then (he) has consolidated power. And now of course is working closely with Fidel Castro and Mr Morales and others," Rumsfeld said, said referring to Evo Morales, Bolivia's new socialist president.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060202/pl_afp/usvenezuelarumsfeld_060202203248

[The Backlash Cometh]

1. Bush's rise is closer to home.

Let's fix our own problems first.

[anotherdrew]

79. odd - where are the Julian Bond bashers when Rummy needs a pounding?

seems like only democrats aren't permitted to make comparisons with hitler, nazi's, etc.
particularly when our comparisons are apt, historically informed and on the mark...

Rummy's ramblings here are really more just a sign of senile dementia.

[blm]

2. But he's not Hitler until the Bush family is making money with him.

And wrapping himself in the flag and prutecting himself by using religion to attack others.

[LincolnMcGrath]

60. Ding Ding DIng

We have a winner

[Theres-a]

63. Tell him what he's won Bob!!!!!!!!!!

:hi:

[LincolnMcGrath]

65. He has won a years supply of this

And one of these for every room in the house


:hi:

[arcane1]

3. why does Rummy hate democracy?

and fyi, Bush was elected just like Hitler too... just like ALL presidents

that bastard

[Tempest]

4. Hitler was NOT elected

RumsFAILed doesn't know shit.

Bush is closer to Hitler.

Both used backroom deals to obtain power.

[liveoaktx]

27. VIDEO on CanOFun

Chavez compared to Hitler

[mom cat]

35. LOL! You are so right!

[IChing]

49. Wrong, Hitler was elected Bush wasn't but it a scam in the same lines

But the US fox viewer knows the same amount of history that the
an eighth grader doesn't understand or comprehend.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-hitlerdemo.htm

[pschoeb]

53. No Hitler's position as Chancellor was obtained legally, but this position

is not an elected position, the position is chosen by the President(who is elected for 7 year terms), though theoretically the Reichstag had the ability to dismiss a Chancellor, so the majority coalition opinions would matter somewhat.

[radwriter0555]

59. hitler was NOT elected. He was appointed. Another man won the election and

hitler appointed himself several months later.

Please do your homework.

[Tempest]

71. That's right

Hitler was appointed Chancellor in an attempt to keep him from causing any more problems for the government.

Hitler used the burning of the Reichstag as a way of muscling his way into the presidency.

[Tempest]

70. Since when is getting 36%, and your opponent getting 53% winning?

There were two elections in Germany in 1932. The second was a run-off.

Hitler lost both of them.

[Tempest]

72. Why did you provide a cite which proves you wrong?

You claim Hitler was elected, and they you provide a cite which proves you wrong.

I find that very interesting.

[bballny]

5. I thought we

loved democracy. Oh they didn't elect the people we like. Maybe we don't love it that MUCH. Let's start backing the military coup like we usd to.

[ixion]

6. okay, so where are all the talking heads with the 'out of bounds'

rants?

I mean, when the tables are reversed, they're very quick to call it 'shrill' or 'out of bounds'. :grr:

[Inland]

29. Yeah, doesn't that mean Rummy "loses" the debate?

Coot.

[whosinpower]

7. What a dipsquat

Hitler was elected legally....and now he is consolidating power by helping the poor - using his oil money to fund education and health for the wellbeing of the majority of venezuelans.

Wow - did Hitler do that????? I don't think so.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

8. If he were anything like Hitler. Prescott Bush would come back from the

grave just to cut some "business" deals with him.

[President Kerry]

9. Do you REALLY want to go that route?

The funniest thing is the asshat doesn't even realize how ironically stupid he sounds.

What sovereign nation did Venezuela attack? Who did they illegally detain? Or maybe spy on? When did they rig elections? Un-fucking-believable!

[Emillereid]

10. Chavez like Hitler??? What's this man smoking?

First Hussein was the next Hitler; now Hugo?

How come when folks on the left compare many of this administration's actions and policies with those of Hitler's Germany, we're raked over the coals for daring to point out the parallels -- they always hit back with outrage that we'd dare compare anything to the extermination camps. But these assholes are free to bandy the Hitler comparison about anytime they want??? Hugo Chavez?? Not only was he democratically elected by a wide margin, but the poor of the world have no better friend. Hitler indeed!!

[saigon68]

19. He will soon send his Minions to KILL CHAVEZ

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

37. They're already there.

[uppityperson]

11. pot meet kettle

wrong on so many accounts.

[cantstandbush]

12. I don't remember Hitler taking land from the wealthy to give to the poor.

Chavez is closer to a benevolent dictator than Bush is. Bush is simply a dictator.

[Roland99]

94. Me either. Or forcing foreign companies to cough up more dough

for raping his country's natural resources.

[napsi]

99. This is where I differ from many democrats and DU'ers

I do not support taking ones property (no matter what their wealth) and "giving" it to another. For any reason..... Private property is the one last bastion of freedom we have here in the US and it is slowly being eroded away. Flame away........

[oblivious]

13. Rumsfeld: "Problem is, we can't lie." (serious - here's the quote)

"How do we compete in this struggle in a way that can counter the ability of the enemy to lie, which we can't do, (and) the ability of the enemy to not have a free media criticizing them? You don't see much criticizing of them."

Rumsfeld says U.S. constrained in information war
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=politicsNews&storyID=2006-02-02T001520Z_01_N01383235_RTRUKOC_0_US-ARMS-USA-INFORMATION.xml

[GoddessOfGuinness]

36. snort

:spray:

[David Zephyr]

14. Funny how these "champions of democracy" really don't like democracy.

The democratic elections in Palestine, Venezuela, Bolivia and now Chile are not delivering up the sort of goverments that the Bush Dictatorship likes.

So much for their taking this nation to war for "democracy" huh?

[ima_sinnic]

15. working closely with CASTRO and MORALES???!!! OMG!!! not them!

this "working closely" s**t has got to stop
:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[AndyA]

16. Bush IS Hitler

What the heck is Rummy talking about? There can't be TWO of them!

[Joe Chi Minh]

17. Chavez is a Catholic. There the similarity with Hitler ends.

Chavez practises his faith, and notably that most cardinal of its component, the Church's social doctrine.

Heck, if he were like Hitler, they'd have coopted him into their cabal - if only to pick his brain, (or what passed for one). That photo of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein over the sale of the poison gas he'd just concluded with him, would have given him some kind of credibility with Hitler, wouldn't it. "I could have used a man like you, when I started having all that trouble with the Russians."

They obviously still haven't grasped that Hitler, far from being a strong man and a winner, was a losers' loser. The epitome of weakness.

[peekaloo]

18. So sad when Nazis turn senile.

Everybody looks like Hitler.

[Cha]

41. That's the best description

of rummy that I've seen.

[Theres-a]

64. *Snarf*

:spray:

[fknobbit]

20. Ok that explains why I got this crap from a coservative friend

The hounds, it appears, are loosened..... jeez the repukers are good at this kind of crap. This kind of unification of evil at all levels in the U.S. is a very frightening thing. Notice the way they cover every base (Cindy as well)Dem's gotta get in these peoples faces or loose this country. Notice she uses up the first two paragraphs convincing me that she has done her home work. I have slapped her lil retard regurgitations back at her so many times by simply linking her to Snopes, et al that she feels it coming. One wonders at her tenacity, or why she never learns..

***********************

"Friends and family: this email intrigued me so I went to www.citgo.com and IT REALLY IS OWNED BY VENEZUELA OIL CORPORATIONS. If one googles Chavez' name, he is rabid anti-US everything; of course open mouth insert foot Cheney has not helped the situation.
I will make a conscious effort to NOT stop at a Citgo and I detest Cindy Sheehan.
I do not know anything about the organization that sent this email, but am glad I got it.
Have a good day.......------"

Please forward this e-mail message to your family and friends!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I LOOKED UP THE OWNER AND THE INFO ON THE OWNER IS CORRECT.
WE MUST STAND UP FOR OUR WAY OF LIFE.
Venezuela Dictator Vows To Bring Down U.S. Government
Venezuela government is sole owner of Citco gasoline company
Dear Pastor,
Venezuela Dictator Hugo Chavez has vowed to bring down the U.S. government. Chavez, president of Venezuela, told a TV audience: "Enough of imperialist aggression; we must tell the world: down with the U.S. empire. We have to bury imperialism this century."

The guest on his television program beamed across Venezuela was Cindy Sheehan, the antiwar activist. Chavez recently had as his guest Harry Belafonte, who called President Bush "the greatest terrorist in the world."

Chavez is pushing a socialist/communist revolution and has a close alliance with Cuban dictator Fidel Castro.

Regardless of your feelings about the war in Iraq, the issue here is that we have a communist dictator vowing to bring down the government of the U.S. And he is using our money to achieve his goal!

The Venezuela government, run by the dictator Chavez, is the sole owner of Citgo gas company. Sales of products at Citgo stations send money back to Chavez to help him in his vow to bring down our government.

Take Action

Send an email to Chavez and to Citgo that you will not be shopping at a Citgo station. Why should U.S. citizens who love freedom be financing a dictator who has vowed to take down our government?


Click Here To Send Your Email Letter Now!
Very important. Please forward this to your friends and family. Most of them don't know that Citgo is owned by the Venezuela government.
Thanks for caring enough to get involved.

If you feel our efforts are worthy, would you please make a small donation to our efforts by clicking here.
Sincerely,
Don
Donald E. Wildmon, Founder and Chairman
American Family Association
P.S. Please forward this e-mail message to your family and friends!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Related Resources

Judicial Tyranny:
The New Kings of America
by Sutherland, Meyer, and Federer So Help Me God
by Moore and Perry The Criminalization of
Christianity
by Janet Folger


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[Bridget Burke]

58. We've seen the hounds here at DU....

Actually, the ones who post here are not so much hounds as those annoying little yippy dogs who piss on your feet. Generally, they'll post that Chavez is a THUG! Just like Castro!

They're strangely absent from this thread.

[satya]

21. You mean like the way he allowed a famous building to be destroyed

and used that as an excuse to ram through laws restricting civil liberties? Or the way he hides behind his supposed christianity to gain trust? Or is it the way he demonizes liberals and intellectuals? Could it be the way he uses fear to manipulate people? And stifles dissent? How about this Hitler quote, sound like anyone you know, Dick?

"You are now witnessing the beginning of a great epoch in history," he proclaimed, standing in front of the burned-out building, surrounded by national media. "This fire," he said, his voice trembling with emotion, "is the beginning." He used the occasion - "a sign from God," he called it - to declare an all-out war on terrorism and its ideological sponsors, a people, he said, who traced their origins to the Middle East and found motivation for their "evil" deeds in their religion.

link to Thom Hartmann essay: http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0129-26.htm

No? Sorry, I must be thinking of someone else...

[leftchick]

22. POT, KETTLE!!!! Arrrrggghhh!

These neofreaks ALWAYS accuse others of exactly what they are or are doing. Projection!!! :grr:

[Laelth]

47. You nailed it.

:applause:

-Laelth

[1932]

103. Projection, yes. Call the other guy something they aren't but that you are

so that you corner the market on that crticism.

But it's not calling the kettle black since the kettle is, in fact, not black.

It's the pot calling a coffee cup a black pot.

[tgnyc]

23. Donald, don't go there, homegirl.

Or you will get humiliated.

[Divernan]

24. Hitler used gas to kill people; Chavez saves the poor with free oil

Someone point out to Rumsfeld that Hitler used gas to operate efficient death chambers. Chavez is helping poor people in many countries by supplying oil/gas to poor communities for reduced costs.

[anotherdrew]

25. OMFG - classic case of projection. these freaks are dangerously un-sane

they must be removed from power ASAP, how much longer can their willful disconnect from reality last?

This really really disgusts me, probably as much as anything else I've heard them say, this is really sick.

[0007]

26. Argh! Throw this crock shucker into the Hague immediately!

We have a mad dog running loose in our country.

[Inland]

28. did Hitler have our oil, too? nt

[Art_from_Ark]

46. The Russians had Hitler's oil

in the Caucasus region. And Hitler thought it was such a waste to have foreigners sitting on top of German oil, even if they were Caucasians.

[applegrove]

30. Chavez got an award today from the UN. For promoting South American

Culture.

[Old and In the Way]

31. Not sure about the Chavez-Hitler comparison, but

I wonder about this connection-

<>

[xxqqqzme]

32. oil money that doesn't have

BFEE prints all over it - THAT'S what is worrisome 2 these rethuglicrooks.

[truth2power]

33. I guess Bush can't be Hitler, then..

cause he wasn't elected.

Oh, wait..I guess Hitler wasn't elected. So, um..yeah, that'll work. bush = hitler.

[cmdrzog]

34. And well he should

A strong populist leader successfully serving the needs of the people and not the corporations is a very worrisome idea to those in the castles of wealth. Those who kill their citizens and the citizens of other nations in lands far removed do not want their populations laying siege to them.

[drduffy]

38. from the mystic caverns of Fernando Poo....

The embedded 'Outland' security agent reported via cell phone that the small group of psychic necromancers, whom he had been tasked to infiltrate, were preparing to begin their *PR* ritual (Pat Robertson Codec); i.e., directing the powerful weapon of deadly prayer against.... bizxxpx bliddd aa ...bzzzzzzt.... and signal died abruptly. The 'Heartland Security' boss and former torturer, Negroponte swore as he threw the phone across the room ..... Who? Who, he wondered. Who were the targets......? As he paced the floor he was overcome suddently by a sharp, ice-pick-like pain....

[cmdrzog]

40. Please provide a link to the original story...thanks

[Rose Siding]

39. Freedom's on the march when I say it's on the march, damn it!

If Chavez played ball with the cabal, Venezuela could be in flames and women could be enslaved, but rumsfiend would sing his praises.

[Geo55]

42. Booga Booga !

Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said that the rise of elected >populist< leaders in Latin America like Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez was "worrisome".


populist
Main Entry: 1pop·u·list
Pronunciation: 'pä-py&-list
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin populus the people
1 : a member of a political party claiming to represent the common people; especially often capitalized : a member of a U.S. political party formed in 1891 primarily to represent agrarian interests and to advocate the free coinage of silver and government control of monopolies
2 : a believer in the rights, wisdom, or virtues of the common people
- pop·u·lism /-"li-z&m/ noun
- pop·u·lis·tic /"pä-py&-'lis-tik/ adjective

must be a BAD dude.

[DeadManInc]

43. Then that must mean that Bush is actually Satan!

[Kierkegaard]

44. "You've got Bush in America with a lot of oil money," he said. "He's a

person who was elected legally just as Adolf Hitler was elected legally."

Works pretty well that way too, huh Rumdumb?

[quiet.american]

45. OMG! - ""You've got Chavez in Venezuela with a lot of oil money" --

--"You've got Chavez in Venezuela with a lot of oil money that we can't get our hands on," he said.

All else is baloney. That's all Rummy's worried about.

[IndianaGreen]

48. This like Goering accusing FDR of being Stalin

Guess what, Rummy? You don't have the troops to invade Venezuela and Bolivia! You can rant all your neocon shit but there is nothing you can do. The world no longer fears America, who they see as the biggest threat to freedom since the Third Reich. The world will fight back!

[Harper_is_Bush]

50. RUMMY FINALLY LOST HIS MIND!!! RATE THAT SHIT UP!!!!!

Only 5 votes, 2 stars!

[LynnTheDem]

51. "elected populist leaders" is "worrisome"??? ELECTED leaders

is "WORRISOME"???

ELECTED.

[cliss]

52. Don Rumsfeld has a damn good reason to be worried

He better be paying attention to what's happening to the south of us. Central and South America is turning to the left. They are starting to band together. They are saying, in unison, "Yanqui go home". Hugo Chavez is a very vocal influence, but there are other leaders who are in complete agreement that the usurping has to stop. Spain has also been a big influence on these countries; they now have a socialist leader, and they speak the same language so there is a lot of commonality there.

As if things weren't bad enough in the Middle East, The problem for Washington is quickly becoming unmanageable. We've spent our dough in Iraq. Currently we're broke, so we're not able to bribe and threaten countries like we used to.

There's really not much RumsFailed can do at this point but wring his hands and wonder what they'll do next.

This is exactly what you deserve Don you incompetent old fool.

[balzac]

54. Rumsfeld is responding to the same thing as John Stewart

Someone from the Simon Weisenthal Center accused Chavez of anti-semitism, for some statement which was anything but clear. Chavez made some reference to the people who crucified Jesus and to an elite minority within the same paragraph.

That set off the hair-trigger of someone at the Weisenthal center who accused Chavez of antisemitism. The Jews in Venezuela still are tight with him, and he met with these groups immediately after this to clear up the confusion.

Google it to find out more. John Stewart miscalculated. Weisenthal is a strong name, but he is dead, and someone from the organization he established made the accusation. That's why Rummy thought he could pile on by comparing Chavez to Hitler.

[Cults4Bush]

68. Yep and the unfounded bullshit letter that Cindy supposedly wrote to

abc about Israel and Palestine. That was a swiftboating lieing piece of shit letter (if it existed at all) written by someone other than Cindy claiming to represent her.

So Jon thinks they are both anti-semites probably. Ive noticed he hasn't had her on, and he could have if he wanted to by now. Though I suspect Jon is ok with the status quo in Iraq like so many other "moderates".

[soleft]

78. is there a thread debunking what Stewart said

about there being a law that puts people who criticize Chavez in jail for 4 years.

I've seen articles debunking the Weisnthal claim.

[soleft]

80. never mind I think I found it

[KittyWampus]

83. It's the truth but regarding Chavez, many DU'ers refuse to acknowledge it

from Human Rights Watch website, page one on Venezuela:

Venezuela: Court Orders Trial of Civil Society Leaders
In ordering the trial of four civil society leaders on dubious charges of treason, a Venezuelan court has assented to government persecution of political opponents, Human Rights Watch said today.
July 8, 2005

Venezuela: Rights Lawyer Faces Judicial Persecution
Criminal Investigation Launched to Intimidate Critic of Government’s Rights Record
The Venezuelan government should immediately halt criminal proceedings opened against one of Latin America’s most prominent human rights lawyers, Human Rights Watch said today.
April 5, 2005

Venezuela: Curbs on Free Expression Tightened
Amendments to Venezuela’s Criminal Code that entered into force last week may stifle press criticism of government authorities and restrict the public’s ability to monitor government actions, Human Rights Watch said today.
March 24, 2005

Venezuela: Chávez Allies Pack Supreme Court
The Venezuelan Congress dealt a severe blow to judicial independence by packing the country’s Supreme Court with 12 new justices, Human Rights Watch said today. A majority of the ruling coalition, dominated by President Hugo Chávez’s party, named the justices late yesterday, filling seats created by a law passed in May that expanded the court’s size by more than half.
December 14, 2004 Press Release
Also available in spanish
Printer friendly version

Venezuela: Media Law Undercuts Freedom of Expression
A draft law to increase state control of television and radio broadcasting in Venezuela threatens to undermine the media’s freedom of expression, Human Rights Watch said today. Venezuela’s National Assembly, which has been voting article by article on the law, known as the Law of Social Responsibility in Radio and Television, is expected to approve it today.
November 24, 2004 Press Release
Also available in spanish
Printer friendly version

snip

Letter to President Hugo Rafael Chávez Frías
In a letter sent to President Hugo Rafael Chávez Frías, HRW expressed deep concern about credible reports documenting that National Guard and police officers beat and tortured people who were detained during the recent protests in Caracas and other Venezuelan cities.
April 12, 2004

Venezuela: Investigate Charges of Abuses Against Protestors
The Venezuelan government should conduct a thorough investigation into allegations that state security forces have beaten and abused detained protestors this week, Human Rights Watch said today. The investigation should also examine the circumstances of killings that occurred during confrontations between protesters and police.
March 5, 2004

snip

Caught In The Crossfire:
Freedom of Expression in Venezuela
The Venezuelan government is not doing enough to protect journalists from violence, Human Rights Watch said in a new report released today. Human Rights Watch also urged the government to protect freedom of expression by ending its ongoing investigation of the country’s private television networks, and dramatically revising its proposed law to regulate the contents of radio and television broadcasts. The launch of Human Rights Watch’s report coincides with renewed public debate in Venezuela over draft legislation that the government of President Hugo Chávez has introduced on the “social responsibility of radio and television.” The draft legislation would impose stringent and detailed controls over radio and television broadcasts, greatly limiting what could be aired during normal viewing hours. Under the guise of protecting children from crude language, sexual situations and violence, it would subject adults to restrictive and puritanical viewing standards. The 26-page report describes how journalists face physical violence and threats, often by fervent civilian supporters of President Hugo Chávez. Noting the justice system’s failure to identify and punish those responsible for the attacks, the report recommends that the attorney general set up a special panel to investigate the problem.
HRW Index No.: B1503
May 21, 2003

Investigate Killings of Opposition Supporters in Venezuela
The government of Hugo Chávez should carry out a thorough and impartial investigation into the abduction and murder of four opposition supporters whose bodies were found on February 16 and 17, Human Rights Watch said today.
February 19, 2003

[Judi Lynn]

90. What connection do you see between the Venezuelan President

and the events you highlighted? How is he involved? Please address each charge fully, if you would.

On edit, adding info. written questioning HRW:

Human Rights Watch began as Helsinki Watch in 1975. It was a powerful Cold War instrument against the Soviet Union and the socialist bloc countries of Eastern Europe. Its network became a web of support for pro-capitalist forces and political dissidents in every country.

Multibillionaire George Soros has played a major role in the development of Human Rights Watch and in linking it with his own personal NGO network. Open Society Institute. Aryeh Neier, the director first of Helsinki Watch and then Human Rights Watch moved on to head the Open Society Institute. Many other directors share positions and change titles within a small world of US-based NGOs.

HRW’s Middle East North Africa division has used its position to build support for the continuing US war and sanctions against Iraq. According to the reports of four major UN agencies (WHO, FAO, UNICEF, WFP), UN Security Council sanctions, kept in place at US insistence, have caused the deaths of over 1.5 million Iraqis. Withholding food and civilian supplies is a war crime. However, Human Rights Watch has proposed that to help weaken Saddam Hussein and “encourage Iraqi officials to overthrow him. Saddam Hussein be indicted by an international court for war crimes.” (HRW press release, January 5, 2000). If the US objective is an invasion of Iraq, Human Rights Watch is only too happy to oblige with reports and suggestions.

Human Rights Watch claims its reports are objective, balanced and evenhanded. When it comes to Palestine this has meant equating the violence of the illegal Israeli occupation with the resistance of Palestinians to overwhelming military force. Once Human Rights Watch declared that “no massacre” had occurred in Jenin, the demand for an inquiry and international action against Israeli crimes virtually disappeared. Media coverage shifted sharply. The Bush administration made a new round of demands on the Palestinians to condemn violence while calling Ariel Sharon “a man of peace” and expressing sympathy for Israeli “self-defense” measures. HRW statements echoed these shifts.
(snip/...)

http://student.cs.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen/IPSC/articles/article0003220.html

[napsi]

100. Unfortunately you will not garner much support

here for your dissent against Chavez. He is viewed by many of us on the left as a savior and a role model for social justice. It's the wrong view in my opinion as I beleive him to be no better than the man who currently presides over our (USA) government.

[1932]

102. On what do you base that opinion?

[1932]

101. What if you were told that pre-1998, there were many many many more

human rights abuses, including the murder of over a thousand people on the streets of Caracas who objected to Chicago School Washington Consensus economic polices?

And what do you think Chavez's government has to gain from abusing human rights? There is a wealthy and powerful media aparatus which has no problem getting the message out against Chavez. The opposition had their chance at a coup. Yet, in election after election, people keep VOTING for Chavez.

Why would Chavez's government need to have an organized secret program for repressing dissent when they so clearly tolerate it at every level, including in the media, through recall elections, by agreeing to evacuate Miraflores under threat of bombing during an attempted coup?

Everywhere you read in depth about these issues about which HRW is complaining, only one explanation makes sense: there are elements in the state and local police which existed before and after Chavez was inaguarated and they do do bad things and it makes almost no sense to look at them as an indictment of Chavez since his government exists as a reaction to a massive human rights abuse: an institutionalized oppression of the vast majority of Venezuelans that was IN FACT brought on the people through violence and force at the moment when it all came to a head during the anti-neoliberalism protests in Caracas in the early 1990s.

Get rid of Chavez and you will, without a doubt, see many more examples of rights abuses in Venezuela. Is that what you want?

[dubya_dubya_III]

89. UMMMH

The people who crucified Jesus for heresy, on behalf of the temple proslytizers, were Roman Fascists, with the largest mercantile monopolist empire and the most powerdul army on earth.

[onager]

55. One book you need to read...

Thy Will Be Done: The Conquest of the Amazon: Nelson Rockefeller and Evangelism In The Age Of Oil

Published in 1995, it's unfortunately out of print but you should be able to find it.

Read this and you'll understand exactly why so many people in South America hate us. And near the end of the book, you'll run into 2 characters who were stinking up the White House during the Nixon/Ford Administration: Dick Cheney and Donmy Rumsfeld. They hated Rockefeller and the East Coast Liberal Repubs, and the feeling was very mutual.

The part about our naval attache getting kicked out is just eyewash. The military attaches of EVERY nation on earth are always assumed to be spies and everybody in the diplomatic community knows that. It's an old and honored custom. I work in aerospace and used to provide tech support to our company's trade shows. At the Washington DC shows, it was always fun to shoot the breeze with a guy whose badge read: "Air Attache--Russian Embassy." They would come around, pick up brochures etc., and write reports for the embassy. That's generally a lot safer than other forms of spying, which can get them arrested or shot.

[salin]

56. Oh I get it, only GOP folks can make Nazi references

and they get to do it towards leaders of other countries, and they get to do it without such a backlash that requires some sort of appology or clarification.

[tecelote]

57. Chavez can help us end Middle Eastern Oil Dependency.

[rucky]

69. That's why he must be destroyed.

Bandar Bush will lose his fiefdom.

[Cocoa]

61. if Rummy is worried about him

then I like Chavez more.

[fakeshemp]

62. Out of Rumsfeld and Chavez, guess who the rest of the world fears more?

Rummy is truly loathsome on every level.

VIVA CHAVEZ!

[smoogatz]

66. When our 18-month-old son takes a crap, we call it a "Rumsfeld."

I wonder if Rumsfeld's "worried" about the Shi'ite theocracy he helped to create in Iraq? Or the well-armed, well-trained, well-funded Sunni insurgency that's trying to overthrow it? Or the all-out bloodbath that's scheduled to take place there exactly two minutes after we leave, whether we leave tomorrow or in ten years? No, he thinks everything in Iraq is GREAT! He's worried about fricking Venezuala!!

[Cults4Bush]

67. Jon Stewart agrees with you Rummy, maybe another coup attempt???

I know some DU'ers would love to see that, especially the Cindy haters and DLC apologists and the nudnik likudnik wannabes.

Yay! More blood more revenge. hey he has oil AND human rights violations lets get him!.... oh wait, so do we.

The truth is that Hugo is a better man than half of our own elected leaders and anything bad you can dig up on him you can easily find something every bit as attrocious about ourselves.

[zann725]

73. Rumsfield has the nerve to talk about ILLEGALLY-elected leaders.

...particularly when the leader is NOT a puppet of U.S. Govt.

[NativeTexan]

74. Bush is MUCH more comparable to Hitler.....

....than any other "leader" that I have seen in my lifetime! "Gotta take away some of your civil rights to protect you, but just temporarily of course." "If I decide that I NEED an excuse to go to war, I'll just MAKE ONE UP." "If you tell a lie enough times, it becomes the truth." "The poor people are just here to do our bidding."

I could go on......Oh...and if these seem familiar to you.....be very afraid.....these were either quotes or paraphrases from HITLER and HIS henchmen.

[truthInCO]

75. disgusting rhetoric, short-sighted and dangerous

Nasty. So now Rummy is throwing around the Hitler term like everyone else!! Outrageous.

I guess it's really vogue, hip and trendy to compare people to this man. Having family that survived the holocaust, I will NEVER - F'ing - NEVER use that analogy to anyone because it's meaning should never be diluted.

Shame on him, as much as anyone else who throws it around so casually to score points.

[Tyler Durden]

76. No, RUMSFELD is HITLER.

Rummy is proof positive that Adolph made it out of the bunker.

[personman]

77. "Here is a man who wore pants...

just as Adolf Hitler wore pants!"

:eyes:

[QuettaKid]

81. bush reichstag

[brentspeak]

82. Chavez wasn't the one who invaded a nation that didn't attack him

Not that I'm a great fan of Chavez (I'm not a great fan of his), but Rumsfeld just sounds like an idiot - which he is.

[Betty]

84. whereas bush was NOT elected legally

so the little fucker doesn't even come up to the standards set by hitler. In terms of being elected, that is, otherwise, I think there's plenty of parallels.

[madmark]

85. other than calling bush, "president of vacation", and doing some minor

nationalization threats with respect to some venezuelan industries, what has been Chavez great sin in the eyes of the right? Not a rhetorical question, I actually want to know.

[Judi Lynn]

86. They don't care if it doesn't make sense to sane people.

They only have to satisfy their idiot base. That's how they get by with this:

January 21 / 22, 2006

It Would be Funny, If It Weren't So Tragic
Rumsfeld: Venezuela "Overspending"
By DAVE LINDORFF

What are you supposed to do when the world's most over-armed, belligerent and dangerous nation, which outspends all the rest of the world combined on arms, and which is the major arms supplier to the rest of the world, tells a little country like Venezuela that it is guilty of spending "too much" on its military?

The initial response is laughter. What a joke, right? Venezuela, awash in oil revenue and feeling a little threatened by threats from the United States to assassinate its leader and by U.S. funding for groups that are trying to foment a coup, wants to spend a few hundred million bucks on planes from Spain and Brazil to modernize its airforce, and the U.S. State Department gets all worked up.

The transactions are something "we would consider an outsized military buildup," says State Department flak Sean McCormack.

"Outsized military buildup?"

What does McCormack call the $441 billion US military budget for 2006 (up four percent from last year)? Note that Venezuela has a population of 25 million, about 1/12 of the size of the U.S., yet its military budget, which actually declined in recent years while U.S. military under Bush soared to Cold War levels in real dollar terms, is just over $1 billion--less than 0.25% of the American military budget.

So which country, the U.S. or Venezuela, is guilty of an "outsized military buildup"?
(snip/...)

http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff01212006.html

[Guitarman]

87. Rummy is a wuss

He is scared of everyone.

[dubya_dubya_III]

88. Pot calls Kettle 'black'

Since everyone we don't like is 'like Hitler', regardless of whether they were elected on a Christian Fascist platform errr, orrr, eh was it really a compliment?

[Redstone]

91. Memo to Rumdum: Go fuck yourself. Who elected YOU?

Redstone

[killbotfactory]

92. That whole hitler thing is in their playbook

Rummy is projecting.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

93. Obergruppenfuhrer Von Rumsfeldt must look dashing in an SS uniform

He parades in his Nazi uniform around the house on festive occasions, goosestepping across the room, admiring himself in the mirror, and slapping his riding crop across his thigh in glee as he adjusts his monocle.

[oblivious]

95. Must be worrisome for elites everywhere: social justice spreading

[Megahurtz]

96. Rumsfeld says "I see $$$$$$$$$$$$$"

WELL LETS SEE HERE !!
WAR+OIL = MONEY IN MY POCKET

I MUST DO WHATS RIGHT !!

:sarcasm:

[lovuian]

97. Bottomline is Bush Corprate cabal is going for all the oil they

can get...

[goforit]

98. LOL!!!....Rummy is jealous!!!