Venezuela's Chavez Wins Hearts Among the Poor

[Judi Lynn]

Venezuela's Chavez Wins Hearts Among the Poor
By Michelle García
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, February 4, 2006; Page A12

CARACAS, Venezuela -- The shanties came tumbling down, wiping out the families who had built their homes on the hill. Carlos Henriquez, then a young boy, vividly remembers the images of the deadly mudslides and the feeling that the government had failed to protect the poor.

In the years that followed, there were more examples of official indifference, said Henriquez, now 22, who has a slight build and a boyish face. Young men fell behind in school, became apathetic and entered shadowy careers on the street. And he felt the government did not seem to care.

But recently, under what President Hugo Chavez calls his "Bolivarian Revolution," named for the 19th-century independence leader Simon Bolivar, the Venezuelan government has offered high school and university educations to adults left behind.

"Now those neighborhoods are stabilizing. This revolution is putting some enthusiasm in the people," said Henriquez, the son of an artist, who peddles revolutionary posters on the sidewalks of the capital. "Before, they didn't have any hope."
(snip/...)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/03/AR2006020302905.html

Click:

President Hugo Chavez, center, inaugurated a Cuban-supported clinic
in a Caracas slum in December. The event was filmed for his weekly
TV show. (Miraflores Press Via Associated Press)

[DemInDistress]

1. he's not doing bad with the poor here in America..hell

discounted oil is greatly appreciated in these hard times for many Americans..

[JanMichael]

2. It's sort of amazing how little some Middle Class DUers care about

the Poor in other countries and then attack those that try to alleviate that Poverty. Regardless of the demonstrable outcomes of Chavez policies. They'd prefer plastic, faux, "democracy", where the Rich run roughshod over rest.

I imagine they feel about the same about Poor people here in the US too. Not that they'd every say anything about it because good Liberals would never say something bad about the Poor.

[WhiteTara]

37. huh?

sorry, that does not compute. :shrug:

[JanMichael]

40. What part of what I said "does not compute"?

That Chavez bashers could give a shit about the Poor of Venezuela or that I believe that they take that stance on Venezuela but likely don't when it comes to Poor Americans?

[WhiteTara]

59. you listed the Chaves bashers as

folks from DU. Now where did that come from?

[0rganism]

62. Just look for one of the many anti-Chavez threads that flourish here

JM's post is dead-on.

[WhiteTara]

64. How could anyone really find fault with Chavez?

He is the epitome of a leader for the people, not the corporation! I have been looking at the life in Venezuela on the internet. They need more art, but have a beautiful unpolluted country.

[0rganism]

65. Hey, it's easy -- just apply the principals taught in American media

Commies are Evil
Socialists are Commies
Populists are Socialists
Chavez is a Populist

therefore, Chavez is Evil. See how easy it is?

Or...

American Presidents (Except Clinton) are Unquestionably Good
Bush is the Holiest Of All American Presidents (Except Maybe Reagan)
Critics of Holy American Presidents (Except Clinton) are With The Terrorists
Hugo Chavez is an Outspoken Critic of the Holiest Of All American Presidents (Except Maybe Reagan)

therefore, Chavez is Unquestionably With The Terrorists. Simplicity in itself.

I'm sure if you look around a bit, you'll find plenty of similar material to form your own anti-Chavista syllogisms.

[WhiteTara]

66. thanks. I was SO confused

now I understand why we as DUers hate Chavez.

[Judi Lynn]

41. I've always been 100% convinced that those visiting posters are

simply not Democrats to start with, and are driven to show up here to raise hell about social programs wherever they are found!

They have absolutely no concern for poor people, and it's obvious a mile away, always apparent in their remarks.

[bluestateguy]

3. Stop the dictator of Venezuela! Regime change now! Spread freedom!

Liberate the people of that tyrannized, oppressed nation and spread democracy and capitalism to them!!

[katinmn]

4. Lifting poor people out of poverty and giving them a chance

to dream...what a concept! Venezuelans have a gem of a leader.

America's wealth dominated government has never liked other governments that give opportunity to the poorest and the powerless because it is a threat in that it could spread. It has been actively wiping out revolutionary leaders in Latin America since the Spanish American War.

I hope Chavez can outmaneuver the Bush Regime.

[killbotfactory]

9. Also, everytime Venezuelans divert oil money to the poor...

American businesses believe that is money that should be going into their pockets.

So you have to unpardonable sins:
1. Helping the poor out of poverty
2. Hurting the corporate bottom line

Unforgivable.

[Virginia Dare]

5. This must give the elitists in this country serious nightmares...EOM

[katinmn]

6. K&N

[meganmonkey]

7. Okay, folks - bookmark this thread

for use in the next wave of anti-Chavez flamewars!

B-)

[tatertop]

11. Don't worry, the anti--Chavez crowd is on its way

I am totally perplexed by the anti-Chavez DU faction.

[niallmac]

13. anti chavez...really? guess I'm getting more and more out of touch

with who my enemies are.

[JanMichael]

14. Sharpen your pencils!

Seriously there are a buttload of butthole anti-Chavez types here.

They're also of the "I must run up my post total by always being the last post in an arguement" breed...

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

22. Oh yeah! Welll ...let's see... ..he kills live puppies on live TV.

I'll let you have the last word I promise (like Bill O'reilly). :evilgrin:

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JanMichael]

39. Hahahaha! "LEAVE"?

Nice one I hope you enjoy your stay.

[whateveritis]

42. I do as well

I'd just like to add another train of thought to the dialogue. Nothing drastic at all. I'd rather get out among the masses and try doing something rather than complain.

[JanMichael]

44. What? Where do you come up with this junk?

"I'd rather get out among the masses and try doing something rather than complain."

Good luck. Also where do you get off assuming that I don't do anything other than "complain" on DU about assholes? A crystal ball? Tarot cards?

[whateveritis]

47. I don't believe I called you out at all....

Listen, ... take it for what it's worth.... I didn't call you out. I've read here for months and there IS tons of complaining. I simply made an observation and was not referring to you. Junk? Thats one mans opinion... it's like the A hole..... everyone has one. It's not my intention to cause a stir... but as we all complain about republicans only wanting to accept their own opinion..... your calling my opinion "JUNK" falls in line with what I read daily as a repub trait. So if me having an opinion is not to your liking..... AHHH WELLL !

[JanMichael]

52. It was posted as a reply to my post.

However I'll accept that you were refering to the "royal me" and not directly to the "me me". Fair enough.

My "junk" comment was included because it appeared that you were, once again, refering to me.

I would also suggest that DU is no more or less "complaint" driven than many other opposition or interests message boards. It allows people to vent.

Of course if it bothers you so much there's a nifty thing called "ignore" as well as a thread blocker.

Take care

EDIT: Just curious. Was your deleted post that contained the oh so sweet "LEAVE" directed to the "royal me" or the "me me"?

[whateveritis]

54. heheheh good one...

nah it was general. no one in particular at all.

[Judi Lynn]

50. JanMichael used to be part of a Democratic radio show we DU'ers

used to hear. I would say he has ALREADY "gotten out" and touched a lot of lives. Can you say the same?

[whateveritis]

56. Really...

Thats great.

[Judi Lynn]

43. Why not post some information supporting your claim Hugo Chavez,

a man of the under-class in Venezuela, which has always been controlled by the wealthy oligarchy, doesn't care about the poor?

Would it be his record of successful programs already accomplished, which have provided new hope to Venezuela's poor, and no secret whatsoever?

You really need to provide your expert sources. Your claims don't have much weight without them, especially combined with insults toward DU'ers.

[whateveritis]

45. I'm not anti chavez

I said so from the beginning. I'm just saying that I will not become a part of the viva chavez movement of US citizens ( that like the guy ONLY because of him not liking Bush ) for my owm reasons. One simply being I do not believe that this guy is doing what he's doing with the fuel for the care of US citizens. He's doing it because of his hatred of Bush. No more or less. The debate will continue I'm sure, but he is what he is.... a political opportunist. Once we get a president to his liking ( and who cares if he likes the next one or not ) we'll see if he continues what he's started. the proof will be in the puddin. GRANDSTANDING sound familiar?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

46. "GRANDSTANDING sound familiar?". Are you talking about yourself?nt

[whateveritis]

48. that type comment is ...

basically the reason I choose to stop reading and start posting. it is FAR to many people here that get hostile when another shares an OPINION.... let me repeat it OPINION that differs from theirs. For a group of people that talk about democracy and saving ours rights on a daily basis.... it really makes me wonder. Again... if you don't like my opinion, who's problem is that? I assure it's not mine, i believe that each and every free person is entitled to his'her own opinion.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

51. You need to do more reading in order to express at least

a remotely educated "opinions". Many of these social programs in Venezuela started when the man got elected in 1999. What does that have to do with bush? He's not god you know. People are able to come up with solutions on their own in spite of how they view the retard personally.

[Judi Lynn]

49. I repeat, do you have any evidence to back up your charges?

How much do you actually know about the man or his history? You claim to know his motivation. How is it you have access to his inner states?

Do you have any idea whatever about his record? Anything at all about Venezuela's history? American policy concerning Venezuela?

Your mere opinion, based on nothing, doesn't get you very far here. If you're claiming you're psychic, that's a different matter. It would be fascinating to hear more about that.

[whateveritis]

53. Huh?

I'm not interested whether my opinion gets me anywhere here. My opinion is mine. I'm not asking anyone to accept it or not. I do not care for the guys politics and thats it. I don't have to justify that at all. Nope I'm not psychic at all... I'm an independent thinker. Actually, I'm more interested in concversation about the US rather that Chavez.

I'm just not gonna get on his coattail and thats that.

[Judi Lynn]

55. So many other threads to choose from, it must be overwhelming.

Many of the rest of us, Democrats, have been interested in U.S./Latin American policy, and particularly the threat _Bush presents to Latin Americans.

It's a simple matter to go check out any of the other "brazillion" threads with our blessings.

The rest of us do generally have references to the things we're discussing.

[whateveritis]

57. So you want me

to get references huh? I need not any blessings, thank you kindly. I'm beginning to think that posting here is not what i thought it to be. I've seen a hint of hostilities from those that apparently are not willing to accept another's thoughts.

[Judi Lynn]

58. References to credible sources, not a letter of commendation from

an employer or your neighbor, most likely.

You said you've been reading D.U., already. I'm sure you're very well acquainted with topics and conversations here. Many of us do our homework, because we are interested in politics, want to know what's going on, and would hope others who participate base their opinions on something real as a starting point.

If you start throwing opinions out, and don't know anything about your subject, it just slows us all down.

I've posted long enough to know I'm just not going to say anything, in case someone asks me for a source, if I've got zip on a subject. I don't want to be embarrassed.

[alarcojon]

63. Enjoy your stay

but as others have been saying, anyone can have an "opinion," but if you're just going to state it and leave it at that, you won't convince many of us.

Sure, Chavez hates Bush, and what Bush has done, is doing, and will continue to do to fuck up the planet in general and Latin America in particular. Pretty much everyone on this board feels the same way about Dubya. But what Chavez (and now Evo Morales) is doing is driven by love for his people (just my opinion, of course B-)), not by hatred of Bush. Correlation doesn't imply causation.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

67. I see you dislike "hatred of Bush" a lot:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2092360#2092381

Telling.

[Judi Lynn]

68. Thanks for the look. No surprise there, right? Tsk. Tsk.

[killbotfactory]

8. Wow, a surprisingly non-biased article

They didn't even throw in the obligatory "dictator" or "authoritarian" in there.

What a pleasant surprise.

[meganmonkey]

26. Well, you know Wash Post is just communist propaganda!

}(

[Judi Lynn]

29. Yeah, it's a shocker. Makes you wonder what they're up to! n/t

[Judi Lynn]

10. Another U.S. state on board for preferred rate Venezuelan oil: Vermont

February 4, 2006

IN BRIEF / VERMONT
Venezuela Expands Heating Oil Subsidies
From Times Wire Reports

Venezuela is expanding its program of subsidizing home heating oil for the poor into Vermont, the latest jab by President Hugo Chavez against President Bush, who calls Chavez a threat to democracy in Latin America.

Venezuela will provide 2.4 million gallons of heating oil at a 40% discount to households that qualify for state home heat assistance, Rep. Bernard Sanders (I-Vt.) said in a statement. Another 108,000 gallons will be given to homeless shelters.
(snip/)

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-briefs4.4feb04,0,2028442.story?coll=la-news-a_section

(center)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You'll note that every state which has opted to avail itself of oil at a 40% discount this winter has had the arrangement initiated by Democratic Congressmen who originally contacted the 5 largest U.S. oil companies, begging for better prices for heating oil for their poor, getting completely rejected in the process. Citgo was the only company which responded. It's a Democratic thing.

There are other customers, as well: certain Native American tribes have also brokered their own arrangements for heating oil to their areas, independently. Posts were made here concerning their agreements.

[John Q. Citizen]

17. I love (actually hate) how it's characterized in the press ;

....the latest jab by President Hugo Chavez against President Bush, who calls Chavez a threat to democracy in Latin America.

Hey, please jab him again if it lowers peoples heating oil costs.

[Judi Lynn]

19. That's really underhanded, isnt' it? They almost ALWAYS include

_Bush's prepared spin, treating it as the actual truth. It's absoltely shameful. It disrespects the public.

[niallmac]

12. What is Democracy? It aint what I was taught in school>

U.S. historically snuffs all populist forms of gov. We do lunch with autocracies. Even Hitler was acceptable until he threatened to gobble up all the pie.
Name one thing to change in America to save our people...I say tear down and re build the corporate structure. Boycott our masters. We could do it economically without setting ourselves up as targets. Ghandi anyone?

[leftstreet]

24. Trust nothing you were taught in school

:toast:

Socialist ideology, like so many others, has two main dangers. One stems from confused and incomplete readings of foreign texts, and the other from the arrogance and hidden rage of those who, in order to climb up in the world, pretend to be frantic defenders of the helpless so as to have shoulders on which to stand.
Jose Marti 1853 - 1895

[Judi Lynn]

27. Noteworthy words from the Cuban poet patriot.

Isn't it a puzzle both actual Cuba Cubans, and the right-wing Miami "exiles" claim Jose Marti as their hero? Marti wasn't any too impressed by what America had done to his countrymen.

They guys in Miami want America to make life even harder for Cubans.

[sasha031]

15. if you give the people hope

they can accomplish anything. I have so much respect for Chavez:loveya:

[Strelnikov_]

16. He's Democratically Elected, Like Hitler. Not Good. Rummy Tell's Me So

He is helping poor people, like Jesus, not good . . . oops

[1932]

18. Hitler used fear to get elected. Chavez used hope. Hitler was a fascist

who empowered the powerful and screwed the people. Chavez is an FDR/New Deal-style Keynesian progressive who is building a fair and functioning economy by devolving economic (and political power) to the people.

Now, how does Bush manage to get elected? Oh yeah. Fear. And who are getting richer and more powerful? Oh yeah. The rich and the powerful.

[Strelnikov_]

20. Ka-Ching

The more I read about the hand wringing over Chavez by the neocons, the more creedence I give to the revelations in 'Confessions Of An Economic Hit Man'.

[TankLV]

36. But bunkerboy got LESS votes than that other guy & was still installed as

pResident!

That would make bunkerboy even LESS legitimate than Hitler...

Opps - sorry agent Mike!

[Mika]

21. Have you seen this from Truthout.org?

http://www.truthout.org/worldsocialforum2006.shtml


Check out the video reports.


DU thread on this here..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x319586

[Joanne98]

23. God bless Hugo Chavez!

[Strelnikov_]

25. Chavez Keeps A List, Denies Political Opponents Government Contracts

He's obviously inspired by the Nazi's. Rummy told me so.

The GOP, on the other hand, have the perfectly justifiable K-Street project to deny political opponents a voice in shaping legislation. We are a winner take all system, by golly.

I mean, good gracious, all these people running around henny-penny comparing the Maximum Leader (w/ Oak Leaf Clusters) and his party to the Nazi's . .

[Judi Lynn]

28. Here's the first paragraph about the list, to emphasize context:

One of the most egregious misuses of power, say his critics, is la lista , the list of voters on the petition that demanded a referendum. The list was posted on the Web sites of an opposition group and a pro-Chavez member of the National Assembly. Chavez's critics say the administration had been using the list to weed out opponents from government jobs and programs.
(snip/...)

It would be my complete belief people who signed that recall petition may not have been doing that well to start with and are looking for a political answer to pin on their political enemy. They did attempt to recall him. If anything goes less than fantastically well, they will blame him for it.

There's a great deal of subjectivity in this accusation, which originates from within the opposition. It does NOT indicate that Hugo Chavez had anything to do with this whatsoever.

[Flanker]

31. The list and its application is real

There is plenty of evidence of cases were the ones fired were informed they were fired because of this, however there is no evidence linking this to the higher ups, it was mostly grass root innitiatives and exceptions.

Initially the list was released on a website by a AN deputy named Tascon, his excuse was that it was done so that people would be able to verify if the oposition had added their signatures without their approval.

Chavez went on record in early 2005 that the list should be "buried". Cases are rarer nowadays.

[Judi Lynn]

33. It's good to have learned this from you. Thanks. n/t

[Strelnikov_]

34. Unlike The K-Street Project, For Which The Only Thing Being Buried

is coverage of it in the media.

[Peace Patriot]

30. This is an amazingly sympatico article, given that it's WaPo. They

actually let the poor speak for themselves, and (as noted by another poster above) avoid the typical and rather insulting corporate news monopoly descriptions of Chavez. ("Self-styled leftist" is one I've been noticing lately. The man is the democratically elected president of Venezuela, who has won big in three different, closely monitored elections, survived a US-backed coup because he is so popular, and reflects VENEZUELAN, not just his own, political beliefs!).

Anyway, the worst they say about him in this article is that his gov't might (it's not proved, by any means) be using the list of people who signed the (US-sponsored) recall petition against Chavez to steer gov't grants away from the enemies of Chavez. They are not being arrested, or prevented from doing business, or living their lives. They've just not being rewarded for trying to remove their president with US help. Seems fair enough to me. And compared to the Bushites--who pour the pork onto their elite friends by the billions of dollars, deal in vast bribery and crime, illegally spy on everybody, and torture and kill people--consulting a PUBLIC list to avoid rewarding political enemies is NORMAL political behavior.

------

I liked the end of the article (and most of the article, really--finally, a fair piece on Chavez!):

"In 2002, Escarlett Castro, a single mother of three and a supervisor for a landscaping company, made good on that promise. Faint scars are still visible on Castro's back. That's where a policeman's bullet grazed her after the coup attempt in 2002, as Castro joined protesters outside Miraflores, the presidential palace, to demand Chavez's return.

"'We wanted to get to Miraflores, and we weren't going to leave until the president returned,' she said, her voice choking, as she climbed through her densely packed neighborhood, pressed into the side of a hill, to reach her humble house with one small window. 'Chavez is the man we have waited for all this time.'

"'We triumphed,' said Castro, who has long black hair and wears bright red lipstick. 'They have to take into consideration that the truth always, always wins, especially when it's the humble people who have the truth.'

Some of Chavez's supporters stress the distinction between the desire of poor and working Venezuelans to determine their future and the will of its leader. Geomar Hernandez, 26, said he applauds Chavez but bristles at the name Chavista.

"'I'm not a Chavista, I'm a Venezuelan,' said Hernandez, a university student. 'We have to believe in a nation. The leaders are circumstantial; their positions change.'"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/03/AR2006020302905.html


-------------

Nice point (of Geomar Hernandez)--and one that I think needs to be made about the broader South American scene. What's happening in South America is an up-from-the-bottom REVOLUTION, with leftist governements being swept into power in numerous countries, turning virtually the entire map of South America "blue": Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Uraguay, Venezuela, and now Bolivia (which will probably be followed by Peru; and Mexico also looks like they're going to elect the leftist mayor of Mex City as president). This is an unstoppable revolution. It's based on years of hard work on transparent elections (something we should take note of) by the OAS, EU election groups and the Carter Center). Transparent elections = good, leftist, peace and justice governments. It's inevitable, since only the Left represents the interests of the vast majority of people.

The US corporate press has dwelled on Chavez as a personality, and ignored the profound arrival of real democracy throughout Latin America!

Michelle Garcia, the reporter, and WaPo should be (gulp!) thanked! We need to encourage this kind reporting.

[Judi Lynn]

32. The reference to the injured pro-Chavez protestor was excellent.

A lot of anti-Chavez people have taken advantage of Americans' ignorance of Venezuelan politics to include violence against demostrators in Caracas as something they can lay at the feet of Hugo Chavez. What they do NOT reveal is that the mayor of Caracas, Alfredo Peña, is a bitter enemy of the man. Hates him desperately. It was HIS police force which shot the place up during the demostrations. This is such a big detail, and you'll never hear it from the opposition, pro-US "NGO'S," and right-wing DU'er posters.

_Bush has been well informed on people he can use in Venezuela, and his government has given funds to the Caracas mayor.

The International Republican Institute, which is associated with the Republican Party and maintains a staffed office in Caracas, has conducted extensive training of opposition political parties, according to NED documents.

In one, Mike Collins, a former GOP press secretary, taught party leaders how to mount photo-ops and do press interviews. With the video camera rolling, Collins conducted mock interviews with the participants and then critiqued their performances. At another session he counseled Caracas Mayor Alfredo Peña, a key Chávez opponent, how he “could soften his aggressive image in order to appeal to a wide range of voters.”

The International Republican Institute also helped arrange meetings in Washington between opposition leaders and U.S. government policymakers.
(snip/...)

http://ncronline.org/NCR_Online/archives2/2004b/040204/040204d.htm

_Bush's government has brought Alfredo Peña to Washington, where he has been taken to meetings with the State Department and the International Monetary Fund.

Although you've seen posters waving their HRW claims about "Chavez's" police brutality, the shooting of demonstrators, this violence came from Alfredo Peña's local government, NOT the Venezuelan government, and these people are deliberately trying to misinform. Very low motives.

[TankLV]

35. Oh, the horror! That damn dictator again!

How dare he convice millions to SUPPORT and VOTE for him TIME AFTER TIME, in spite of the best efforts of our godhead pResident and his MINORITY godlike REPUKE syncophants!

Spreading democracy and freedumb everywhere!

[MasonJar]

60. I am so sure that Chavez is dumping millions of dollars because

he hates GWB. There are certainly more inexpensive ways to get W's goat. Actually Georgie Porgie is probably glad he isn't paying for the cheap oil. He is first and foremost in his own mind at all times. One does not have to be psychic to know what's in W's feeble little ego. It sticks out of his sneer and his beedy (or is it beady), too-close- together eyes.

[roody]

61. Check out the videos

"The Revolution will not be televised" and "Chavez, Venezuela and Latin America." They are pro Chavez and extremely informative. I would love to have a president who gets up and talks about love. Maybe I'll have to move to Venezuela.