First-Grader Suspended For Sexual Harassment

[ECH1969]

A Brockton first-grader was suspended from school for three days last month after school officials said that he sexually harassed a girl in his class.

NewsCenter 5's Jim Boyd reported Tuesday that officials at the Downey Elementary School called the boy's mother, Berthena Dorinvil, on Jan. 30, and asked her to pick up her child from the school. Dorinvil said that officials told her that her son was being suspended for sexually harassing a 6-year-old female classmate.

"My son told me that the girl touched him first, so he touched her back," Dorinvil said. "I was shocked. I was crying. I was out of control," Dorinvil said.

School officials would not speak on camera, and police officers were posted at the school Tuesday afternoon. The school superintendent released a statement that said, "The safety and well-being of Brockton public school students and staff is of the utmost important to us, and we take all allegations of sexual harassment seriously."

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/6819062/detail.html

[Mythsaje]

1. Ah, nothing like the raging intelligence of zero-tolerance policies...

I can see the wisdom in calling the parents in to discuss the matter, then having them talk to the kids about it, but suspension?

Give me a break.

[smoogatz]

2. Crazy. What did the kid do? The story's pretty imprecise.

Our 18-month old likes to pull up other kids' shirts and poke their bellies. Is that sexual harrassment?

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. 1st graders aren't 18 months old

[smoogatz]

43. Hey--thanks for pounting that out.

Cripes.

[proud2BlibKansan]

48. Not enough information

Yet we jump tp the conclusion that this must have been as innocent as 18 month olds playing?

[lvx35]

3. d-u-m-b.

Sexual harrassment? 6 year old? If the kid was really doing something sexual, instead of just fooling around, its because he's been molested himself...In which case they be talking to him instead of making him feel like a criminal.

[proud2BlibKansan]

65. So he should be allowed to stay in school

and have opportunities to molest OTHER kids?

[lvx35]

67. Sorry, but a 6 year old is not a dangerous predator.

bottom line. You don't arrest or incarcerate 6-year olds, so why call it sexual harassment, a crime? That's just dumb.

edit: here's the actual "crime". Its not that bad.
http://www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=52758&CFID=404594&CFTOKEN=30523485

A 6-year-old was suspended for 3 days from his 1st grade class after he was accused of inappropriately touching a girl in the class. The boy is accused of putting 2 fingers inside the waistband of the girls pants and touching her skin.


"I screamed, because my son doesn't even know what sexual harassment is," said Berentha Dorinvil "He doesn't know those things. He's only 6 years old. I said to him 'Did your fingers touch her skin?' He said to me 'No, just her shirt.'"


At the time of the incident the children, around 20 students with a teacher present, were sitting on the carpet. The boy claims the girl touched him first and he playfully retaliated. The girl then complained to the teacher the boy had touched her.

[proud2BlibKansan]

70. This is Mom's version of events.

Due to privacy laws, you will never get the "actual" story from the school district. So you are basing your opinion on a one sided story from an angry mother.

They call it sexual harrassment because it is indeed possible at that age. You must not know many 6 year olds.

[lvx35]

71. I don't think 6 year olds can sexually harass.

because I don't think they are naturally sexual at that age. They're curious, they're playful, but I don't think proper sexual desire really manifests until around puberty. When I read the sexual harassment definition at wikipedia, it just seems silly when 1st graders are plugged in.

"When a <6 year old> demands submission to innapropriate sexual behavior, implicitly or explicitly as a term of the other <6-year-old's> employment..."

sounds goofy to me. I say talk to the kid about what kind of touching is appropriate and not and don't freak out about it.

[NMDemDist2]

4. good lord! "if you show me yours......" is no longer a valid game for

6 year olds??

well, so glad another dangerous predator is off the streets eh? :sarcasm:

[rodeodance]

6. gosh--we used to play doctor nurse at that age. um....

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. Oh that's what happened?

Funny I don't see that in the article. Maybe you can point out that part to me.

[NMDemDist2]

44. the boy told his mother "she touched me first" sounded like a game

that children play to me.

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. I work with kids

It doesn't sound like an innocent game to me.

But then we really don't have enough information to jump to any conclusion, now do we?

It's just another case of a parent wanting publicity because her poor innocent baby got into trouble.

[NMDemDist2]

50. I bow to your experience then

I don't have kids, I don't like kids and I claim no in depth knowledge of childhood stages. It just seemed to me to be "much ado about nothing" from a couple of 1st graders

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. Once again - not enough information

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

53. Oh, the joy of unintended irony!

Take a GOOD look at the two last lines of that post.

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. Some parents deal with a problem

Others call the media.

Happens a lot.

And the story we get from the media is Mommy's version. Don't you think it is interesting that we NEVER hear the school's side of the story?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

60. So it's alright to jump to conclusions

as long as it's YOUR conclusions.

Oh-tay.

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. Happens a lot.

More often than you apparently realize.

[DemInDistress]

5. foolish school officials...what will happen when he learns to

grab ass..or pinch a butt..or something little kids do. Did you ever play doctor? I did, and grew up to be a pot smoking bush hater.,
Imagine a kid saying,"hey baby,want to meet me after playschool?" lol

[NorCalDem]

7. This is why when O'Lielly goes NUTS on someone

for them NOT wanting minimum sentencing laws for ALL sex offenders I laugh. ANY law that has no grey area or that allows for a jury of peers and judge to consider the weight of the crime are bad laws, period! Even if they're for sex offenders.

In real life there is no black and white, only grey. Those that don't agree with this statement are idiots (whoops, broke my own rule :))

[Auntie Bush]

14. "jury of peers"...A jury of first graders would be his peers.

Actually. I think that's a good idea. Ask this classmates if he is guilty and how he should be punished. Well...never mind.

[bunkerbuster1]

81. Sure hope this sexual predator's in the database!

Twenty years from now when he's buying his first house, better make sure to notify the neighbors, eh?

[DELUSIONAL]

8. I question the educational & common sense background

of the faculty.

Kids learn very quickly what behavior is appropriate and inappropriate -- and over reacting to common behavior is just plain stupid. Don't they have psychologists -- counselors with degrees in psychology or people with ordinary common sense????

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. And how do you know what the kid did?

Sexual harrassment can mean many different things. Yet you leap to the conclusion that this is a harmless prank and you question the faculty.

How's that reading between the lines working for you?

[LostinVA]

37. And, every child has a right not to be sexually harassed

And a first grader can certainly do something that is scary and offensive to another first grader... their age doesn't necessarily make it either innocent or excuse their behavior in any way. I'm 41, and my grammar school was very strict, but I can remember from k-8 having certain boys do stuff to us girls, and when we complained, were basically told "boys will be boys." This included unwanted kissing and touching, pulling down panties, etc. (as young as kindergarten). When we were older, it involved snapping bras, leering at breasts, talking about periods, etc. This was ALL very, very humiliating and upsetting, both to experience and to watch being done to other girls.

Yeah, if it was indeed sexual in nature, the boy may have been molested, and that needs to be investigated. But people who say children aren't sexual creatures have apparently never been around kids very much.

Children have a right to be in a non-threatening, non-humiliating environment, both at home and at school, just as adults have this protection at work.

[proud2BlibKansan]

46. At my friend's school

two first grade boys were luring pairs of boys into a stall in the restroom and daring them to touch each other's penises while they watched. They then threatened to beat the boys up if they told on them.

But I guess some here would call that innocent. :eyes:

on edit: Yes, they got suspended for - you guessed it - sexual harrassment.

[LostinVA]

59. "Boys will be boys"

[northzax]

76. gee, that seems a lot more like sexual assault

than harrassment. let's see, use of violence? check. Use of intimidation? check. That's not harrassment, it's assault.

[bettyellen]

9. why are posters saying this was a game? this little girl was upset

enough to report it, and you all act like "she did it first" or the crying mama have all the credibility here.
i have seen 7-10 year old boys act out, talk about raping girls, grabbing on grown women. it's well within the realm of possible, whether y'all like to face it or not.
the details are not in the report, so we don't know, but the assumptions here are astoundingly naive.

[mongo]

10. As you say -- the details are not in the report

which said nothing about the girl reporting it -- it could have been witnessed by a teacher.

It's funny that you would admonish other DU'ers for making the most common assumption (playing Dr.), while you have to attack the credibility of the mother in the story to make it fit your world view (the evil boy was attacking the poor innocent girl).

Astoundingly naive indeed.

[bettyellen]

12. i'd never guess that they would punish this boy if the girl was not

disturbed by what occured. most of the teachers i know are so overworked they don't have a minute to spare on that kind of nonsense. they let alot slide they are supposed to report.
so yeah, that's my world view. but every single poster here assumed it was nothing, or a game without knowing the first thing about what happened, and i have to say wtf is that? ... as if they can't wrap their mind around it because of the kid's age. i'm just saying that's dead wrong. some children do mimic very disturbing behaviour, i don't believe they have to be abused necesarily themselves to do it.
i'm just saying it does happen.

[LisaL]

17. I agree. They are bombarded with all kinds of messages.

Just watching TV could give kids all kinds of crazy ideas.
I mean, recently a 7 year old shot another child while trying to rob her.
Kids do the strangest things now days.

[bettyellen]

18. my friend taught third grade art and quit over the boys behaviour....

grabbing her boobs and ass, talking about how they wanted to fuck her or rape her. she found it disturbing that they used the words interchangably, and it was just shy of 1/3 the boys doing this shit.
there was no one in the school that could offer resolution or extra help, it was an overcrowded classroom. even if the kids weren't a "threat" because they couldn't function sexually, she felt intimidated and very depressed over the whole thing. this was over 10 years ago. she left before the the semester was done.

[LisaL]

21. Well, no one should have to put up with that kind of abuse.

I don't know what it is the 7 year old did, but it certainly is not out of the realm of possibility he exhibited inappropriate behavior.

[bettyellen]

29. none of us know. it could be nothing- or much worse than any of us

could imagine.
it's intersesting everyone here is in such great school districts that they all imagine teachers have time for making a big shit outta nothing. kids around here should be so lucky. :shrug:

[LostinVA]

38. Not me -- I agree with you, bettyellen

This isn't funny, and it's certainly not an outrage that the boy was disciplined for harassing the girl.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. Well I for one am going to wait until I hear EXACTLY what happened

before I make a judgement about who is wrong.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. There have been far too many of these cases

Kid gets into trouble, Mom calls the media. It is becoming an obvious pattern. DUers are too intelligent to fall for this crap.

We complain about the media frenzy of murdered blonde stories yet we assume this is yet another bad school/evil faculty scenario.

[HarveyBrooks]

62. Where does it say

that Mom called the media?

[proud2BlibKansan]

63. How do you think they got the story?

HELLO??

[HarveyBrooks]

77. So you're

just assuming. Seems like you're assuming a lot.

[Thor_MN]

11. he said she said. We don't know, but why do you assume that HE

is guilty? It's also well within the realm of possibility that SHE was the one who was "at fault".

I would suggest that since we don't know the details, that it's a fool's errand to try to make any assumptions. And it would be astoundingly naive for one to think it's possible to judge these children based on casual observations of other children acting out.

[bettyellen]

13. i am asking why everyone assumed it was a game.

and saying maybe not. that is all.
i noticed people seem to be fighting the idea that it's possible at all.
why do you think that is?

[lumberjack_jeff]

15. Everyone assumes it was a game...

...because there is a very strong likelihood, given that we're talking about a first-grader, that it was.

A seven-year-old that can't keep his hands to himself (or herself) should be disciplined. To call it "sexual harrassment" is ludicrous.

I find it interesting how far the boundaries of "the patriarchal society" have crept. Even first-graders are potential harassers.

[bettyellen]

16. why so ludicrous?

do we have any idea how/ where he touched her, what was said?

[lumberjack_jeff]

73. We know that it was a seven-year-old.

That's why it's ludicrous.

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. So just what would you call it?

Friendly touching?

Innocent probing?

[bettyellen]

30. what they would call it, if it was their own daughter.....

they might jump to the opposite conclusion. their daughter doesn't play naughty "games" or get other kids in trouble unless there's a good reason.

[lumberjack_jeff]

74. A teachable moment.

If a LITTLE kid can't keep his hands to himself, he needs to be given consequences.

But those consequences should not include imposition of the school districts sexual harassment policy, which I assume, include law enforcement.

[LostinVA]

39. There's just as strong likelihood that it wasn't

Little girls have been sexually bullied by little boys for a long time. When I was in school in the 60's, when my sister was in the 70's, when my mom was in the 40's and 50's. And, as my niece was in the 90's. These were all in very good school districts.

And, of course it is sexual harassment if he couldn't keep his hands to himself! It's ludicrous to em to say it isn't. First graders are of course potential harassers. You were just lucky as hell not have any little sociopaths in your school, I guess. It's a total control thing.

[lumberjack_jeff]

75. I am lucky...

to be the father of three boys, the youngest of which is now a first-grader.

If the principal of his school called me into his office to accuse my first grader of sexually harassing his classmates, the presence of the police most definitely would be required.

I'm empathatic about, but not sorry for (I will not accept, nor will I tolerate transferrence onto an entire gender the blame for someone's actions) the bullying you experienced, but first graders are still little kids. They are not to blame for anything you may have dealt with when you were younger.

A prerequisite for being punished for sexual harrasment is being old enough to know what sex is.

[LostinVA]

78. Hate to tell you, but I wasn't blaming you for anything

Nor a whole gender. I was stating that nasty, humiliating shit has been done to school-age girls by some of their male classmates forever, and until recently, they've been getting away with it. If your first grader son did something humiliating and sexual in nature to a classmate, he should be accused of sexual harassment. This is not acceptable behavior for a normal child of that age, period. He would not be allowed to do it to his sister, a cousin, a neighbor, etc.

And, I wasn't bullied. I was sexually harassed, along with millions of other females. You STILL don't get it. Your fake pop psychology of accusing me of "transference" is laughable, and completely shows YOU DON'T GET IT.

Also, why do you think I
'm blaming this boy on what happened to me??? I'm simply saying his actions may not be as "Innocent" as you and others state, and that the little girl has a right not to be touched by ANYONE. Got it? No, I don't think you do.

And quit trying to make this into me blaming males. Please.

And, if you honestly don't think kids are sexual, you need to do some reading. For indeed they are. This doesn't mean they get an erection and rape someone... but of course kids are sexual.

And people wonder how some boys learn to think it's okay to keep doing stuff when a little girl says "no."

[lumberjack_jeff]

79. I don't get it? You're damn right I don't.

A first-grader (boy or girl) is a small child.

Sexual harassment is a term that is diluted by the insistence that it applies to every childhood interaction, and I'm frankly offended that even my seven-year old is subject to your "adult" views of male aggression.

Sexual harassment is pressure to trade sexual favors in return for some reward.

There is no dispute that little kids are capable of acting inappropriately. I do dispute that sexual harassment (a crime) is what this first grader did.

From the CNN article http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-02-09-first-grader_x.htm;

The first-grader was suspended for three days for sexual harassment after he put two fingers inside a classmate's waistband, school officials told his mother, Berthena Dorinvil. The boy told her he only touched the girl's shirt after the girl touched him. Experts say only in rare, troubling cases can children that young truly sexually harass one another.

"The connotation is you're getting some kind of sexual gratification, or wanting sexual gratification, or are putting pressure on for some kind of sexual gratification, when a 6-year-old doesn't have that capacity," said E. Christopher Murray, a civil rights attorney who has handled school discipline cases.

Dr. Elizabeth Berger, a Philadelphia-area child psychiatrist, said this case seems to be an overzealous attempt to ensure students feel safe in school after years in which society was not attentive enough.

<snip>

First-graders who repeatedly touch classmates need to be disciplined and taught what's appropriate, said Nan Stein, a senior research scientist at the Center for Research on Women at Wellesley College. But don't call the apparent discipline problem "sexual harassment" because first-graders just don't get it, she said.

[LisaL]

19. I imagine the most likely scenario is that the teacher witnessed it.

And the kid just got suspended for three days, no need for "she asked for it" defense.
:eyes:

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. Amen

Thank you for the first sensible reply in this thread.

[henslee]

35. I have siblings that teach some awfuly behavedl kindergartners and

I would not rule out anything.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Hooray! Another one sided story slamming a school

N.E.I.

Not Enough Information. :eyes: :spank:

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

28. probaby saw Daddy's porn movies at home on TV!!

and wanted to act all grown up!
What's wrong with a little of the old "in out"?
(Clockwork Orange)
School is for learning!

[dylan33]

31. When we

Take back our country we will take back our schools. :patriot:

[anitar1]

32. What about the parents? Taking them back too?

Bet the Mom enjoyed her big drama. And God knows what the boy has learned throughout his short life. All kids have the capacity for bad behavior they are not little angels. They are small people with distinct personalities.As for the girl, she could be a budding drama queen. We do not know any facts.

[dylan33]

33. I think

The fact that we had better take back our country and take back our schools is quite clear. I agree we do not know the details but I think alot of us are tired of school officials over reacting in our name claiming to know more about what kids need than we do. There are no perfect parents and there are no perfect schools either

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. What does one thing have to do with the other?

This isn't about politics. It's about a kid who got into trouble and Mommy called the media. Period.

[Hekate]

34. Whatever happened to Time Out? Counseling on appropriate behavior?

Monitoring children and their activities for age-appropriate activities? Understanding developmental levels? Teaching them how to behave? Stopping bullies?

Yow.

Hekate

[Moosepoop]

36. More detail here.

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=124930

Brockton first grader suspended for sexual harassment

<snip>

The principal told Dorinvil the girl complained to the teacher after her son touched the girl’s waistband, hitting her skin, in a room full of children.

Dorinvil said her son told her he touched the girl’s shirt, not her skin, after the girl touched him.

“He was playing with her,” Dorinvil said.

[Lochloosa]

40. ...

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. And again - Mom's version of events

[bleedingheart]

41. another hysterical anti-school bias article...

how about we let these people handle this on their own? "Oh look how badly the schools treat my child"...."Oh whoa is me....the world is against my son/daughter...."

Who ever reported it to the news wanted to make a mountain out of this mole hill. Clearly this will be resolved by the school, but let us be rational about it. I doubt that this little boy would have even been in trouble if he had done something harmless and bets are that he has been a problem before.

My son was injured (the kid stabbed at my son in the chest with a blunt pencil...which deflected off my kid's sternum and left a small scratch)..at school by another classmate who clearly had anger issues. The teacher called me, told me about what happend and told me she would deal with it. I called the principal the next day to make sure that the boy in question was punished. He received dentention for a week for what I feel was a suspension related incident... Did I go to the media and cry foul? No...I dealt with it and told my son never to go near that boy again. I also discovered that the boy's father was in Iraq and his mother was a real spaz...I bet the kid was pretty wound tight due in part to his family situation... My son also told me that when the two of them were called down to the principal's office to discuss the issue the kid cried like a baby and was hysterical about the fact that he knew he was in trouble...my son said he never saw someone cry like that....and that overall the kid wasn't a mean kid...he had just snapped that day...

So I have to wonder about why someone wants to make a freaking media circus over a child being suspended?

When junior gets fired at work one day...will this mother call the press because it was unfair?

[LostinVA]

47. I actually had that happen when I fired a 21-year-old once

About 12 years ago -- I was managing a big-box bookstore. She was a new employee, been through training, seemed smart.... yet every day her register came up between $15-25 short. Totally unacceptable. Itw as EXTREMELY unusual to have anyone's register (including my own) be off by more than a dollar. I had no idea if she was stealing or incompenet. We retrained, counseled, etc. for three weeks. It never improved, so we let her go. She was one of two people I did that to in five years... although I fired several people for missing shifts and for stealing (and one for being a racist/homophobic sociopath to the gay and black employees).

What happens? Her MOM comes in, wanting to know wtf was going on. Of course we refused to talk to her, because the girl wasn't a minor -- that's illegal. We had to threaten to call the cops. So, then her DAD also comes in. I let him call home office, who told him the same thing. They wound up calling us over ten times in two days, until we threaten them with the police.

So, yeah, some kids and parents DO think this goes on into adulthood.....

[proud2BlibKansan]

55. Yes Mommy will be there for Junior

Thanks for a very sensible response. :hi:

[BiggJawn]

42. Well, an up-coming "Mallard Fillmore" strip in the making...

Just as soon as he gets down with his passive-agressive racism this week....

[KittyWampus]

45. This is the stupidest thread in LBN EVER. No Facts, Just A Vague

recounting of something that lead to a six year old being suspended for three days.

What actually lead to that suspension?

NO ONE HAS ANY IDEA.

Yet DU'ers are freaking arguing over it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

56. Why is it in LBN?

This happened over a week ago. :wtf?:

[Javaman]

61. Land of the stupid...n/t

[flashdebadge]

66. The story doesn't say WHERE they were touching. For all we know they

could have been poking each other in the arm.

[ohiosmith]

69. According to the report I heard on NBC this morning, the boy claims

to have poked the girl through her clothing on her lower back. The girl claims that the boy touched her under her blouse and panties on her lower back.

[twaddler01]

68. Shocking

how kids can be kids.....before you know it, babies will be suspended from being with their moms for harrasing other babies.....

[Blue_Tires]

72. not a lot of info here

girl allegedly touched him, and he allegedly touched her back...no one said who touched who where....

[KamaAina]

80. In a related story, Brockton opens its first chapter of Young Republicans

:spank: