West Begining to See Wide Islamic Protests as Sign of Deep Gulf

[RedEarth]

LONDON, Feb. 7 — As Islamic protests grew against the publication of cartoons lampooning the Prophet Muhammad, a small but vocal Muslim immigrant organization responded with a drawing on its Web site of Hitler in bed with Anne Frank. "Write this one in your diary, Anne," Hitler was shown as saying.

The intent, said the group, the Arab European League, was "to use our right to artistic expression," just as the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten did last September when it published 12 cartoons showing Muhammad, several of them satiric.

"Europe has its sacred cows, even if they're not religious sacred cows," said Dyab Abou Jahjah, the founder of the organization, which advocates for immigrants' rights in Belgium, the Netherlands and Denmark.

After days of violent protests that have claimed several lives, the conflict has pushed both sides across an unexpected threshold, where they view each other with miscomprehension and suspicion.

As the protests have spread, some Europeans have come to realize that relatively small Muslim minorities — 3 percent in Britain, 4 percent in Denmark and around 5 percent in the European Union — can wield power across the Islamic world.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/08/international/europe/08islam.html?ei=5094&en=102c025d3704270c&hp=&ex=1139374800&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print

[rodeodance]

1. that was apparent with the fires that spread across Europe last year.

[Igel]

2. Lots of people say we have to understand "Muslims" in the ME

among other places. I keep hearing pronouncements from prominent people and self-appointed spokesmen from the area, and I keep wondering exactly what they "know" about us.

Some of the cartoons I've seen in the last few years have been truly offensive; but they're the ones that aren't intended to be especially offensive, but for domestic consumption in the Middle East or Pakistan. Some articles in the Arab press have been really vile, IMO, but my impression is that they're not meant to be inflammatory, and I'm just listening in on a private conversation.

Then there are the things that the newspapers or speakers seem to think will get a Westerner's goat, with people (presumably) like me as the intended target, and they leave me mildly annoyed or simply puzzled as to what set of assumptions about me or Westerners/Xians/Americans could have made such a cartoon or article see the light of day.

The Anne Frank one strikes me as merely immature and juvenile, and therefore incapable of being truly, deeply offensive. "What? You called me an ignoramus? Well ... you're a super-double imgornamus!"

[Turley]

3. The Europeans have simply had an ***ful of Muslims

It's been building for some time. It gained a lot of momentum with the murder of Theo van Gogh and threats against other European writers, artists, and politicians. Now it has been blown wide open. Europeans have simply come to realize that even "moderate" Muslims are the equivalent of say, a Jerry Falwell fundy. Liberal, Westernized Muslims, are a distinct minority.

Europeans are tired of medieval practices being imported into their countries. They've also had it with the implied threat of violence which has become almost pervasive. Attitudes have changed 180 over the last few years.

[SKKY]

4. I think this cartoon is more of a juvenile, knee-jerk reaction than...

...anything, so I find it difficult to really take it seriously. But, you're definitely onto something. And I'm afraid you're touching onto something most don't want to talk about, but should.

[Bridget Burke]

9. Yes, Right Wing Europeans have been gaining power.

Here's a piece from 2000:

Fueled largely by reaction to a tide of immigrants - especially from Muslim countries - far-right political parties in recent years have made undeniable gains in the hearts and minds of European voters. During the 1990s rightists collected as much as 10 percent or more of the total in some elections in Germany, France, and Italy. As of February 2000, they held legislative seats in four of 16 German states.

In France, mainstream conservative leaders are turning to right-wingers in their efforts to retain political control in five regions after election gains by left-wing parties. Their decision to make deals with the anti-immigrant National Front has triggered nation-wide protest rallies.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2000/02/0224_europe.html

The Right Wing Europeans of the 1930's blamed their problems on the Jews. Since the 1940's, there's been a shortage of Jews in Europe. So the Muslims make a good target.

"Angry White Men"

[Turley]

11. "Blaming their problems on the Muslims"

I think you're missing a lot of the picture Bridget. Europeans find their cherished principles of tolerance and freedom increasingly under attack by authoritarian Islamists. This is not a matter of someone "blaming all their problems" on some convenient scapegoat.

[Bridget Burke]

14. Yes, but why are the anti-immigrant folks Right Wing?

People who aren't all that fond of "tolerance and freedom." Here's a report from 2003.

* While Western Europe is prosperous, Europe faces some daunting economic and social problems, which the right-ring exploits.

These problems include housing shortages and high population density, high unemployment, failing infrastructure, aging populations, declining tax bases and rollbacks of social safety nets. Immigration is being blamed as the chief cause for these problems, when in some cases immigration could actually help solve some issues, and when globalization, unfettered capitalism, IMF and World Bank policies are more clearly to blame. The right is also careful to ignore the legacy of European colonialism and the role of current US military and foreign policies in causing the upsurge in immigration....

* Rising nationalism, particularly in Eastern Europe is accompanied by religious and ethnic violence.

Aside from the obvious examples in the former Yugoslavia and Soviet Union, persecution of Moslems, Jews, Roma and Sinta people (called “gypsies”) are on the rise all over Europe. Ironically, people of German descent returning from the former USSR cause a large portion of the immigration “problem” in Germany.....

* Democracy is a recent experiment in most European countries, and multi-racial, multi-cultural democracy is a brand new idea.

On the other hand there are historical conflicts based on religion and ethnicity, war and conquest, dating back for centuries, that affect current attitudes in ways that are not always obvious to Americans. For instance, right-wing Serbs dredge up the history of Turkish invasion and conquest to stir up hatred of Albanian Moslems in Kosovo. Immigrants crossing from Morocco into Spain face a hostile population which has not come to terms with its history of 700 years as a multi-ethnic society under Islamic rule, followed by Christian re-conquest and forcible conversion, execution or expulsion of both Muslims and Jews.

www.publiceye.org/rightist/Europe/edgington.html

I'd consider left-wing types the ones more concerned about "tolerance and freedom." However, the hatred of immigrants comes from the Right. If they can whimper about centuries' old invasions, let's remember what Right Wing Europeans did much more recently.

[Turley]

16. I don't think it's useful

to portray this as a right-wing phenomenon. That the right has gained followers over the last few years on the basis of anti-immigration policies is well-known and has been much discussed. What we are seeing now is entirely different however. We're seeing the Center-Left which has largely supported immigration now turning its back on that policy and also changing its view of Europe's Muslim population.

Stern Magazin just released a poll which shows that a stunning 38% of all Germans actually fear Muslim populations and that a whopping 55% find the Muslim population to be more of a threat than a contribution to society. That's not the far right Bridget. That's ordinary people. I might add that right-wingers wouldn't be caught dead reading Stern so maybe the real results would be higher.

[EXDIA53]

17. Not all are right-wing!

Bridget, I know several highly educated people in Europe who would be too far to the left to fit in the Democratic Party who would be counted as "far right" because of their opposition to muslim immigrants. Americans have a certain view of immigration because all Americans were immigrants. Europeans generally don't believe that just because you are alive you have the right to come live in their country. I agree with that view. Whether or not you agree with the idea of nation-states, they exist for a reason. Most people, young, old, educated or not, want to live with people who have the same general customs, habits and language that they do. Some of my more academic friends think this isn't true, but it is only because they only associate with people who think like they do, which of course proves my point. A great many of my fellow Democrats still think the 2004 election was "stolen" because no one they know voted for Bush. Well, I wouldn't vote for Bush if you put a gun to my head, and yet almost everyone I know outside of Academia voted for W. So I wasn't surprised at all.

[enigma000]

18. You are correct, it goes beyond left/right

I mean, say you are living in Denmark. And say you are a left wing, social libertarian, marijuana smoking, pro-abortion, Broke-back Mountain fan living a gay sex-in-the city type lifestyle. That lifestyle might conflict with those advocating the creation of the Islamic Republic of Denmark.

[Turley]

20. Mostly its more mundane

You mention a sort of extreme example. Oftentimes the "struggle" between the two cultures plays out in more mundane ways. Mostly Muslims challenge Western principles in the way Muslims interact with one another within their own communities. It's not a Muslim guy wacking some gay Danish guy over the head. It's imported Muslim traditions which conflict with Western traditions. It's forced marriages, honor killings, spousal abuse. These things happen at an appallingly high rate in European Muslim communities and in many cases Muslims simply refuse to acknowledge that Western National laws supercede their own Islamic laws.

[Bridget Burke]

21. Well, surely you can find evidence that European Left Wingers....

Are exploiting immigrant hatred--just as the Right Wingers are?

Where did you get this choice phrase? left wing, social libertarian, marijuana smoking, pro-abortion, Broke-back Mountain fan living a gay sex-in-the city type lifestyle

Sex in the City? I don't see your stereotypical left winger spendiing his/her money on Manolo Blahniks.

[Turley]

23. I don't understand

I'm not sure why the salient point should be whether or not the Center Left is "exploiting immigrant hatred".

The salient point is that the majority of Europeans outside of the right-wing are drifting towards opposition to immigrant Muslim communities in their midst. The right has always opposed the immigrants and always will. The sea change in everyone else's attitudes is the real story here.

[enigma000]

24. LOL

What can I say, before my first cup of coffee in the morning, I just can't type prose that well.

I not suggesting the left is exploiting immigrant hatred, its just they would naturally have a concern with the actions of an unassimilated and socially conservative minority - honour killings, restrictions to free speech, etc.

The Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn, who was assassinated a couple of years ago, ran on an "anti-immigrant" platform and, from what I recall, he wasn't right-of-centre on other issues.

[Bridget Burke]

22. Why did the Europeans let these people in?

We've got immigrant haters here, too.

Some European nation-states are pretty new, as well. How recently was Germany unified (no, not the re-unification that followed the Wall's destruction.) When did Italy become a "nation-state"? Europeans did considerable traveling in their past & the borders have kept moving, as well. What about people without European "roots"? Like the Jews & the Gypsies? Not only the Muslims might be guilty of being "different." Glad for pointing out that "difference" is the problem--not any specifically Muslim practices.

You look down on "Academia" here & in Europe. Only the pointy-headed intellectuals--over there--don't hate immigrants. Only the pointy-headed intellectuals--over here--did not vote for Bush. Gosh, I know quite a few non-Academics here in Houston, Texas, who think that Bush is as crazy as a rat on acid.

If you're trying to prove that the Right Wing is not behind Europe's anti-immigrant movement--perhaps you should not post Right Wing talking points? "Of course Bush won honestly--almost everyone voted for him!"

[EXDIA53]

26. You may have missed my point...

By the way, I am a "pointy-headed academic" as well as a "middle-east expert" (actually, there are none). I grew up thinking that the problem with the right was they they only saw things in black and white, but I've come to see that the left is afflicted with that also. Just because you don't want uninvited or invited guests coming into your country and trying to set up Sharia law doesn't make you an "immigrant-hater". Of course the European right started the anti-immigrant movement. The reason so many center-left politicians are jumping on is that many, many Europeans agree with them!
Bush won 51% of the vote. That's all you need in a democracy, Bridget. As much as I found Kerry to be repulsive, I wish he had won the 51%. Your attitude is a perfect example of why we continue to lose elections. You just can't imagine anyone actually voting for someone like Bush. I hold political views similar to yours, if not further left - that's why I post here. However, I don't have my head in the sand,either. Socially, the US is a pretty conservative place. When Democrats ran on economics, they won. When the party leadership changed between 1972 and 1980, choice and other social concerns pushed economic justice off center stage, and we've been losing ever since.

[Bridget Burke]

27. So--we should get rid of choice & other social concerns?

Why the hell did you find Kerry "repulsive"?

Surely, EXDIA53, there's evidence that center-left Europeans are getting on the immigrant-hating bandwagon? Even in this country, we're assured by the Right Wing that they speak for "The Heartland"--"The Real Americans." But they never actually prove it.

In your previous post, you pointed out that "difference" was the main problem. All Europeans want to live with people who look like them, think like them & speak like them? Now, Sharia Law is the problems....

[Turley]

28. It's not the immigrant hating bandwagon

It's the <i>immigrant-fearing</i> bandwagen. Today's poll by Stern, a highly regarded Left of Center weekly news magazine illustrates this perfectly.

[EXDIA53]

29. Perhaps you need some time in Europe...

to really live in a European city; make friends with Europeans and see what life is like. Maybe your views would change, maybe not. I am guessing that you find people that disagree with you to be _________-haters? If you don't want muslim immigrants making trouble in your European country you are an "immigrant-hater"? This is what I mentioned about a black/white outlook. No shades of gray for you. I know some well educated, middle class muslims in the UK and the Netherlands who would be the first to expel these radical Imams. They moved to Europe to get away from their narrow, ignorant views, and now they are in danger of being tarred with the same brush, as it were. It is interesting that far more American left intellectuals defend radical Islam than the European left.
Of course, they have more experience dealing with them than we do.
As for Kerry - if you don't see what a pathetic national candidate he was, I just can't help you.

[Bridget Burke]

31. Unfortunately, I can't afford to move to Europe right now.

Are there any links on the Internet pointing out how Leftish Europeans hate the Muslims?

If you consider Kery pathetic, whom would you have preferred? And why did you join DU just to post on this one subject?

[Turley]

32. This is childish

I'm not sure why you continue to cage this discussion in terms of "hate" which is a particularly transparent straw-man. There's lots to discuss here for anyone with an open mind. If you're only inclined to pigeon-holing your fellow posters then I'm afraid I'll have to leave you to it.

Cheers.

[Bridget Burke]

35. OK, I'll just have to take your word for it.

Guess you can't find any evidence online of non-Right Wing opposition to "different" people in Europe.

Cheers to you, Professor Turley.

[Turley]

37. May I introduce you to Mr Google?

Try Google news. The press has been flooded with such analysis for the last week. You'd have to be blind not to find any. Otherwise, the Stern poll, published today (and which I've noted here twice and you steadfastly refuse to ackowledge or discuss) is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. 38% are scared of the Muslim population. 55% believe the Muslim population is more of a threat than a contribution to society. This from Germany's leading Left of Center weekly.

I don't feel it's necessary to cite some "internet source" to back up my arguments. I've lived in Europe for fourteen years. I'm pretty well aware of what the problems are since I face them myself everyday. By suggesting that Europeans are acting out of irrational fear you ignore the complexities of the matter; and display your own ignorance.

[Bridget Burke]

40. So supply a link to Stern.

Even one "internet source" is more verifiable than your 14 year residence in Europe.

I used Google to find the Right Wing links.

(I thought you had given up on me?)

[brentspeak]

48. Off topic...

I'm interested in precisely what you don't like about Kerry.

[EXDIA53]

15. Dem's: Sharia Law or First Amendment?

I've been following this very closely, as one who is strongly tied to Europe, has lived in the middle east, and thinks of himself as a liberal Democrat. In fact, I'm surprised at the low keyed approach most Dem's have taken. The cartoons were a little juvenile, but I've seen cartoons of the same degree in US and European papers lampooning Christians. However, that's not the point. Why do we (Western civilization) cringe and grovel every time we offend some Muslim faction and yet go to the wall to defend segments of our own "artistic community" who basically urinate all over our own religious and cultural heritage?
For far too long, both the far right and far left have had something in common: They want free press unless it offends them. Frankly, I think every newspaper in North America and Europe ought to print the cartoons, all on the same day, as a celebration of OUR values. I would not have even considered this a year or two ago, but I think perhaps some in Europe are right - this may be developing into a struggle between cultures. If it is, I know what culture I want, and I would use every tool in the toolbox to defend it.

[fujiyama]

25. An interesting post

with some points that many would rather not confront, especially on the far left.

Being the son of immigrants myself, I generally favor liberal immigration policies, but having grown up with a western liberal mindset, I wonder at which point should these values be compromised in the name of tolerance.

Regarding free expression, I am with others that there should be absolutely no comprimise. While the cartoons may have been offensive, this goes to the heart of a free society. I am disturbed that some feel they can impose their values on the rest of the world. We all know that Muhammad cannot be pictured and we all respect the right for Muslims to hold that belief. No one is forcing a mosque to have stained glass photos of Muhammad.

For example, the Simpsons has had several cracks regarding Hinduism and Ganesh in particular. I don't recall hearing about any vandalism of Fox studios over that. I'm sure some were offended, and perhaps they staged a few letter writing campaigns and protests.

However, there is a visible double standard among some on the left, where there is a knee jerk defense of the actions of Islamists vs. those of the Christian right. It's always claimed that these actions by Islamists are a reaction to our actions. I am not going to argue that we have not enflamed tensions through the Iraq war, torture, and other offenses commited. Our president began his "war on terror" by calling it a Crusade, quite likely, the single worst word he could have used.

But destroying property, threatening others, and in some cases killing others over free expression is nothing new for radical Islamists. The "Satanic Verses" preceed Bush's "War on Terror" by twelve years. At the time Salman Rushdie was forced into hiding and a Japanese translator was killed. Terrorism by the same type of fanatics goes back even farther.

The conflict here is not between Islam and the West, it's been radical Islam and everyone else, including moderate Muslims who do exist. We speak often about the crushing of dissent and free speech, the visible hatred for gays, the desire to undo women's rights, etc. under Bush, but these are common place actions in the Islamic world, with no real parallel in this country.

Our problem is not with moderate Muslims, who are relatively conservative culturally even compared to their Christian counterparts. They are under threat as well.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

5. It's interesting that they chose to try to offend Jews.

Denmark is over 90% Lutheran (well, those that even bother to go to church.) So why not a cartoon that would be offensive to Christians? It seems that extremist Muslims have an unhealthy obsession with Jews and unsurprisingly ascribe to all of the wacky zionist conspiracy theories.

[Colorado Blue]

38. Also, they realize that Jews constitute a mere 13 million

people worldwide, are exposed - more than 5 million just in Israel and another 5 million plus in the US - and, regardless of the fact that people insist Jews run the world, are extremely vulnerable in fact.

Attacking Jews is a safe and time-honored pasttime, unlikely to result in serious consequences.

Starting a holy war with Christians - that's another matter.

[EXDIA53]

41. A change for Europe...

I've noticed in the last few years that the really insidious anti-semitism has switched from the right to the left in Europe. Of course the neo-Nazis are still around, and the media loves to make a big deal out of them, but they are fairly powerless, pathetic goons compared to the new Palestine embracing left in Europe. They won't say anything against jews in Europe, but ask a European jew who they are more anxious about and you'll get a surprising answer.

[Colorado Blue]

44. A year ago I wouldn't have believed you. However, since I

became involved in cyber-politics I have suffered a rude awakening.

And I believe you're absolutely correct.

[kineneb]

39. Fundie Muslims don't understand about the Reformation, etc.

and that parodies of Christian iconography have been going on for a long time. They think that that by attacking the Jews they attack Christianity. Sorry to say, the split between those two religions is so old that effect is lost.

If they are so threatend by a cartoon, then their religion is really weak.

The whole thing has been blown out of proportion by factions who have their own agenda.

And before anyone flames me, my step-father is a Muslim. I doubt he gives a damn about a couple of silly cartoons.

[bleedingheart]

6. Offensive religious rhetoric occurs every day so what are we to do?

Do we ban free speech as a result?

Every day someone refers to Roman Catholics as child molestors...somewhere in the world...

Every day someone refers to Baptists as greedy bible beating evangelists....

Every day someone refers to Jews as greedy and plotting to take over the world...

The American media has been on anti-muslim initiative ever since Bush got a hard on for Iraq...

BUT a bunch of cartoons set off this crowd?

I think not.

I think this was staged by leaders in those areas where the violence is being reported and they are using the cartoons as an excuse.

Religious animosity has always existed...it is the nature of the world unfortunately. Like the cola wars the religious wars are fought over the very souls of the people on this planet and each group wants to win...

Add to this corporate and political greed and its abuses over the world and you have a stew of hate just bubbling over...

[msongs]

19. exactly right - much rhetoric by religious people is offensive

youre going to hell if you don't believe our religion
death to (fill in the blank)
(fill in the blank) are scum according to my religion
my way or the highway
you dont follow my religion youre going to jail
you are an infidel/heathen/pagan/godless commie etc
etc

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[SoCalDem]

7. DUH!!

I think lots of westerners are confused.. This is NOT like the old time movies or "Aladdin".. This is in-your-face carnage..and NO understanding of what do next or how to extricate ourselves

[rayofreason]

8. What a comeback!!!

I don't like the cartoon that a Danish newspaper published, so LET'S ATTACK THE JEWS!!!!

Actually this is a specific instance of the general solution to any problem in the Islamic world:
I don't like_________________, so LET'S ATTACK THE JEWS!!!!

And what will happen now?

Will the Jewish street erupt in fury? Riots in Palm Beach? Hassidim dressing in pink to show outrage? Orthodox crowds throwing day-old bagels at Iranian embassies world-wide?

[CJCRANE]

10. They don't need to retaliate...

coaliton forces and predator drones are wiping out muslims on a daily basis.

Protests and riots are pretty bad, but it's small fry compared to 100,000 Iraqi civilians wiped out for a lie.

[Earth_First]

12. Am I correct in understanding...

that the cartoons in question are months old (September, I believe). So why the outrage now? This is not rhetorical. Perhaps someone could explain this to me.

Thanks.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

13. They were recently republished in several other European papers. n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

30. After a Danish prosecutor told Danish Muslims he wouldn't charge the paper

(which he decided in early January), some of them went around the Middle East asking for help. The boycott of Danish goods started, Saudi Arabia withdrew its ambassador to Denmark, and the story made it into all of the newspapers.

[Bridget Burke]

33. The plan is working well.

Extremist Muslim leaders have used a valid reaction to the insulting cartoons for their own purposes. Link them to the horrors Bush is visiting upon Muslims--even though he had nothing to do with the cartoons. Whip the crowds into a frenzy--why protest when you can riot?

And the Europeans are even more convinced that the Crescent is once more threatening the Heartland of Europe--the racially pure folk. Only the Right Wingers can rescue them!

[Turley]

34. Spoken like someone

who hasn't spent any appreciable time in Europe lately.

[EXDIA53]

36. Or anywhere else.

Maybe we need a new center-left party in the US. The GOP has been taken over by fundamentalist loonies and corporate criminals, and from the looks of some of these posts, the Dem's have succumbed to one-dimensional knee-jerks who call everyone else a "Hater". There seems to be more hate coming from them than just about anyone else.

[Bridget Burke]

42. Yes, and spending time in Europe is the only way to know the truth!

Since the left-leaning immigrant-fearers only complain in the cafes.

[reprobate]

43. Mass uprisings are seldom about what they seem to be about.

Usually, some particular action (like the cartoons) are the trigger that lights the fuse, but always there's some deeper and unspecified cause for rebellion. In this case, the cartoons are only the match that lights the fuse. The reason behind it is the widespread distrust and hatred for the west that has exploited the middle east and drained their resources for the last century.

If the west is not very carefull, this may be the start of the long fortold 'clash of civilizations' we've been told to expect. And it's hard to blame them, when we've been draining them dry, their leadership has gotten wealth beyond their dreams while the average man on the street is as poor as his great grandfathe back during the 1916 rebellion that T.E. Lawrence wrote about.

[fedsron2us]

46. Sorry I must have missed the Danish Empire in the Middle East.

Last time I checked they had not been a major power since the time of King Canute.

[reprobate]

47. Oh, come on, fedsron. You and I both know it's not about Denmark.

It's all about the western capitalist hegemony, with the US in the lead, taking, taking, taking, and giving nothing in return.

And worse than just that, it's us who have been installing the dictatorial governments in their countries, who give their people little or nothing of the billions they squirrel away from the oil royalties we pay them. Remember the Sha of Iran and his friendly secret police? We installed him in power.

A little history of Iran:

1. 1951 Prime minister mohammad Mossadeq nationalizes oil industry. Does not sit well with U.S.

2. 1953 Prime minister overthrown by U.S. and Shaw installed as dictator. Things go well for U.S. oil

industry.

3. 1973 Iran owes big debts to U.S. banks. They suggest to him that he raise the price of oil so as to repay the debts faster. He leads opec in raising the world oil price, causing the oil crisis of the time

4. 1979 Shah is overthrown by Khomainie(sp?) leaving U.S. oil interests high and dry.


So in the case of Iran, at least, we have been our own worst enemy. The U.S. believes in free trade, as long as it makes the rules.

[fedsron2us]

49. Spare me the lessons about the evils of capitalism and imperialism

I know why the US and its allies staged the illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003. This hardly explains why it has taken the populace of the region three years to take to the streets. Have they not noticed all the innocent people being killed in Iraq ? It appears that their lives are less important than some second rate cartoons produced in south Jutland.

[madmark]

45. its the only religion that puts out hits on people

(See Salmon Rushdie). No wonder it is not enthusiastically embraced by everyone.