Reuters: Two Killed As Afghans Stage New Protests Over Cartoons

[Hissyspit]

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=newsOne&storyID=2006-02-08T093510Z_01_SP33488_RTRUKOC_0_US-RELIGION-CARTOONS.xml

Two killed as Afghans stage new protests over cartoons
Wed Feb 8, 2006 4:35 AM ET
By Robert Birsel

KABUL (Reuters) - At least two more Afghans were killed and 16 wounded on Wednesday in fresh protests against cartoons depicting Islam's most revered prophet that have enraged Muslims around the world.

Tens of thousands of Muslims have demonstrated in the Middle East, Asia and Africa over the drawings, first published in Denmark, then Norway and then several other European countries. At least eight people have died in related violence.

Six have died in Afghanistan alone, where protesters have turned their wrath on local authorities after their attempts to target Western institutions were thwarted.

- snip -

Moderate Muslims, while condemning the cartoons, have expressed fears radicals are hijacking debate over the boundary between media freedom and religious respect.

MORE

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

1. The Afghan government is in an awful situation.

They can't crack down on the protests themselves for fear of being called a tool of the United States. On the other hand, letting this go on unabated is only strengthening the Taliban and other extremist elements.

[Cobalt Violet]

2. ...

:popcorn:

[Army]

3. When You Want Money For People With Minds That Hate

Sorry, I was channeling John Lennon.

The middle east is a travesty and it has been for 4,000 years. We should pull out, point some bombs at them and say "just make sure you keep it in the family, Mohammed."

[rodeodance]

4. Deadly cartoon riot near U.S. base

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/02/08/cartoon.protests/index.html

Deadly cartoon riot near U.S. base
Danish PM: Muslim world has 'false picture' of country

Wednesday, February 8, 2006; Posted: 10:12 a.m. EST (15:12 GMT)


KABUL, Afghanistan (CNN) -- Afghan police have shot and killed several protesters trying to storm a U.S. military base, bringing the death toll from this week's violent demonstrations over caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed to at least 10.

Wednesday's violence came as U.S. President George W. Bush urged governments around the world to help put an end to the violence sparked by angry protests over the cartoons.

"I call upon the governments around the world to stop the violence, to be respectful, to protect property and protect the lives of innocent diplomats who are serving their countries overseas," Bush said, referring to the attacks on Danish and other European embassies in several capitals.

Meanwhile, hundreds of protesters hurled rocks at police in the southern Afghan city of Qalat. Officers first fired into the air to try to clear the crowd but turned their guns on protesters as they tried to attack the base, provincial police said.
......

[boobooday]

5. "I call upon the governments around the world to stop the violence"

And we call upon you right back, Numnuts.

Stop the violence.
Be respectful (of people and laws)
Protect the lives of innocents.

[ugarte]

10. Oh, so NOW he believes in following international law??

Three years and thousands of lives too late. Talk about chutzpah.

[boobooday]

13. Well, no . . . not him

But everyone else should follow the Bush Doctrine, dontcha know.

[Spazito]

19. LOL, except where bush is causing the violence aka Iraq

His calling on governments around the world has as much credibility as his promises to New Orleans.

[Webster Green]

6. Deadly cartoon riots......What a wierd fucking planet we live on...

What's next, I wonder?

[callous taoboy]

18. Stick figures and ink were lying on the ground everywhere. n/t

[Matariki]

7. have an acquaintance in Kabul right now

just got email from him today: "I like the excitement. I am more afraid of boredom and a normal work week than carbombs and beheadings."
He wants to be Hunter Thompson I think.

[Bluzmann57]

8. To each his own

There is something to be said for boredom though.

[sam sarrha]

9. this is just intimidation to force the west to follow Islamic law..we need

to get Hemp oil, solar, wind, conservation,... going BIG TIME and free ourselves form their oil and put them back in the 8th century where they want to put us..

non carbon chain oils like AMSOIL with 250,000 mile oil changes and increased wear that gets over 1,000,000 on an engine will also save billions of tons of coal making car parts, hemp oil will save the farmers and end importation of oil alone.. the new solar technology can produce over 70% of daytime needs with 4 units 10 miles square, and there is a new light bulb that reduces power use by 39%.. WE CAN DO IT .....!!! screw em

[ugarte]

11. The trouble is, we want to dominate them also

As invading occupiers, our moral authority is bankrupt.

[sam sarrha]

26. the neocons want to control the entire world, everybody suffers under Fascism

only the Corporate, government and wealthy elete are allowed to prosper

[superconnected]

20. are you serious?

Do you really believe they want to convert us to Islam?
did you just say we can do it screw em - "the muslims"?

[sam sarrha]

25. Islam requires the conversion or subjugation of Infidels, you allowed to

coexist only if you follow their laws.

[superconnected]

28. We could say the same things about Christianity.

Fortunately only fundamentalist(in each religion) believe and invoke these extreme views. Do you kill women who cheat on their husbands? Deuteronomy says to. Do you cut off your hand when it does evil? Gee the Bible says to.

[sam sarrha]

31. the old testiment is Jewish, Jesus reformed all the hate crimes in the OT

[superconnected]

33. Yes!

Now if we could convince fundys!

Instead we do still have people here saying things like.. "glass em".

[regnaD kciN]

34. Interesting...

You hate Islam, think Judaism is full of "hate crimes"...

...and have a picture of Gandhi as your avatar???

:wtf:

[PsychoDad]

32. Islam doesn't require the conversion or Subjugation of non-Muslims..

Again- Islam doesn't require the conversion or Subjugation of non-Muslims.

Sura 2:255 states clearly-

"There is no compulsion in religion.."

I got my soundbyte from the Quran, where did you get yours?

Peace

[superconnected]

12. So far it's police:10 Rioters:0

[Colorado Blue]

22. I don't think that's correct. An Italian priest was murdered

in Turkey because of this, according to a Muslim writer in Ha'aretz, although according to other sources police officials aren't making the link with the cartoons official until they catch the culprit.

In other incidents, police and security forces have been injured. At least one person died in the fire in Beirut.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_cartoons_controversy

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/05/AR2006020500879.html

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/680091.html

[superconnected]

24. Okay, police:10; possible connection to protesters:1; death by fire from

protest: 1

[Colorado Blue]

27. Your point? The protesters should just have been allowed to

kill the police or attack more bystanders or burn more stuff?

I think the deaths are regrettable too but to the best of my knowledge the security forces didn't start the riots and they didn't burn the buildings.

[superconnected]

29. So what do you think, should we deport all the blacks from

the Rodney king riots? How about the WTO protestors and hey any of the Florida Riots(okay I forgot what they were about but buildings were being burned.)

Perhaps if people could understand that there is a difference between political cartoons and a series of cartoons with intent only to defame a people, aka facist propaganda, then people would realize people usually riot for a reason.

You know, I posted nazi propaganda on here - cartoons depicting the jews, and a few sites explaining how the nazis spread their anti-semitism. If you care to check, do a search. The point was, it was through political cartoons, posters and news articles that the nazis spread it. It was their main source of bringing anti-semitism to the German people. Call it free speech if you want, But some people really can tell the difference between hate propaganda and political cartoons.

Someone very intelligently pointed out after my post, that these cartoons went after mohammed must like the Nazi hate propaganda went after religion with the jews.

[Colorado Blue]

35. ARE YOU SERIOUS? Where do get this leap?

Unbelievable.

There is a huge difference between saying it's acceptable to keep order and try to defend OTHER innocent people from being hurt, and saying a fellow DU'er wants to deport all the people who rioted in LA.

This sort of thing is so completely OTT. It's no wonder people laugh at liberals.

And yes, the cartoons are not unlike the dehumanization of the Nazis, although most of them were pretty harmless. Light satire and dehumanization? I think if you really look at the Danish cartoons you'll see that most fall into the previous category.

And, since you brought up the dehumanization of people, what about the brutal antisemitism practiced every day in the Middle East - in cartoons, in movies, on TV, in speeches, in sermons? Do I hear any outrage?

[sabra]

14. Bush asks governments stop violence over cartoons

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N08340716.htm

Bush asks governments stop violence over cartoons

WASHINGTON, Feb 8 (Reuters) - President George W. Bush on Wednesday said governments around the world should protect the lives and property of diplomats against the violence that has erupted over published cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad.

Bush said he and Jordan's King Abdullah discussed the Muslim reaction to the cartoons that he called "a topic that requires a lot of discussion and a lot of sensitive thought."

"We believe in a free press, and also recognize that with freedom comes responsibilities. With freedom comes the responsibility to be thoughtful about others," Bush said.

But, he added: "We reject violence as a way to express discontent with what may be printed in a free press."

[phantom power]

15. Yes, violence is only for oil geopolitics.

[Speck Tater]

16. Well, since it's BUSH asking, I guess that solves the whole crisis.

What would we do without him to tell us what to do?

[wordpix]

21. the neoCon-PNAC policies are behind much of the unrest so he ought to

examine those first and then change them!

[daleo]

17. It is clear this is about more than just the cartoons

In the same way that the Rodney King riots were about more than just one jury verdict.

[kineneb]

23. Bingo! daleo has the correct answer! n/t

[superconnected]

30. repost, but still vaild. Since they're "just cartoons"

"The Nazi emphasis on anti-Semitism and hatred of Jews was widely spread by means of virulent anti-Jewish propaganda, in films, posters and publications. The image of the corrupt Jew trying to conquer the world was frequently presented as a legitimate reason for their ill-treatment."

from http://motlc.learningcenter.wiesenthal.org/pages/t024/t02404.html



"The caption: "One eats the other and the Jew devours them all..." The cartoon promotes the Nazi claim that the Jews were behind World War II, having orchestrated it to destroy Nazi Germany."


a cool site on propaganda
http://www.bytwerk.com/gpa/lustige.htm

" Posters for the support of the Nazi regime and discrimination of the Jewish population were found everywhere. Political cartoons became popular. Jews were portrayed with huge hooked noses, bulging eyes, large ears, swollen lips, unshaven beards, long hairy arms and hands, and short crooked legs. The dominant characteristics were swindling and sexual perversion. The most notorious host of these anti-Semitic visuals was the newspaper Der Sturmer, written by Julius Streicher. It had started as a political paper, but by the time Hitler had a firm hold on Germany, it specialized in selling the idea that the Jews were the worst enemy of the Germans. "


More nazi propaganda cartoons:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030413052329/http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/sturmer.htm

"It also gives us a very special, secret pleasure to see how unaware the people around us are of what is really happening to them." - Adolf Hitler

[Colorado Blue]

36. So? Maybe you're aware this kind of cartoon is published

all the time by Muslims? That similar cartoons have been published in the British press - of course they're just about ISRAELI Jews, not about Jewish Jews, and about British politicians portrayed as flying pigs, but that's because they're politicians and not because they're JEWISH, so that makes it ok, right?

And that the President of Iran, instead of having a cartoon contest about Vikings, is sponsoring a cartoon contest about the Holocaust?

Why? Because he can, that's why. After all, complaints about Zionists ruling the world notwithstanding, the Jewish community numbers 13 million people worldwide.

Heaven forbid Iran should take on the Europeans or America. I'd like to see Iran have a German cartoon contest, or a Russian cartoon contest, or maybe do some pictures of Dubya. But, that might backfire. Better to attack the little people.

So - maybe there needs to be some MUTUAL RESPECT? And maybe all this outrage about the Danish cartoons could find an echo, with regard to cartoons, TV shows, sermons, speeches, etc, that are published in the Middle East, which target Jews?

I'm listening??????? Helloooo?????? Do I hear any outrage here, or do we just defend certain groups?

Hopefully, the cartoon thing will lead to some self-awareness both in the West and in the East.

[superconnected]

37. I am aware, I'm also aware of why and I'm also aware of

it not being political cartoons but really facist propaganda, no matter who does it.

Just because one does it, doesn't make more doing it, right.

It's still facist propaganda.

[Colorado Blue]

38. Ah. So the televised production, on Egyptian TV, of the

"Protocols of the Elders of Zion," their inclusion in Palestinian schoolbooks as actual history, bloodcurdling sermons from assorted Imams and dramas about Jews killing a blue-eyed Arab in order to steal and use her eyes, or various and sundry other forms of blood libel; not to mention bloodthirsty Hamas propaganda, threatening the destruction of Israel - are facist?

I love it.

Works for me.

I think I'll go post your observations over in I/P.

PS: if you're looking for cause and effect - maybe the fact that the Protocols were published in the M.E. in the early 1920's, and the fact that violence against Middle Eastern Jews began almost simulaneously, had something to do with each other? Propaganda like this has been fueling the conflict between Arabs and Jews since LONG before Israel was a state. Western antisemitism on top of Islamic contempt for Jews created a truly noxious mixture. The Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al Husseini, actually worked with Hitler during WWII. And he was present, in Lebanon, helping direct the existential war against Israel in 1948 - in which nothing less than total annihilation was the stated goal - a bloodbath.

So the implication that Israel herself is to blame for antisemitic cartoons is just exactly backwards.

And moreover, the implication that is true, also more than justifies the pictures of Mohammed with a bomb on his head.

Right?