LA Times: Pastors hope to spread Gospel, hasten End Time

[Newsjock]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002791288_evangelical08.html

By Louis Sahagun
Los Angeles Times

INGLEWOOD, Calif. — Pastors of some of the largest evangelical churches in America met Tuesday in Inglewood to polish strategies for starting 5 million new churches worldwide in 10 years, an effort they say they hope will hasten the End Time.

The Rapture and Second Coming of Jesus have always been the ultimate goal of evangelicalism. But when that would occur was any Christian's guess.

The Global Pastors Network's "Billion Souls Initiative" aims to shorten the path to Judgment Day by partnering church resources with the latest communications systems to spread the Gospel of Jesus.

In an interview at Faith Central Bible Church in Inglewood, James Davis, president of the campaign, said, "Jesus Christ commissioned his disciples to go to the ends of the Earth and tell everyone how they could achieve eternal life. As we advance around the world, we'll be shortening the time needed to fulfill that great commission.

"Then, the Bible says, the end will come."

Added Davis: "The current generation may actually live long enough to see this."

more

[The Backlash Cometh]

1. Wouldn't these people be considered terrorists?

They want to HASTEN the coming of the end of the world. Shouldn't someone be compiling a dossier on them right about now?

[KSLeftyMom]

4. They are afraid of death

That's the short version. These nutbags are afraid of dying, so they hope to just magically be sucked up to heaven. I used to think that when I was in elementary school -- a private one, listening to the fire and brimstone speeches -- and I hoped for the second coming so I wouldn't have to suffer and die someday. These people, in my mind then, have the emotional maturity of 8-year-olds.

[Bridget Burke]

10. Or they are afraid of life.

Nothing is really black & white here. Life is complicated. Many people dare to have different opinions.

God's Holy Fire will cleanse the Earth & make things simple "again." (Actually things were never simple.)

[cali]

7. Interesting that you ask this question

even if in jest. Millenarianism has often spawned violence, from the apocalyptic 'messiahs' of the early medieval age to John of Leyden (mid 16th century) and the Nazi structure of a thousand year reich In the U.S. millenarian sects have been, for the most part, a pretty hapless (and harmless) crew.
Interesting stuff though. One of the best books written on the subject-and there are a lot- is entitled "In Pursuit Of The Millennium", by the great British historian, Norman Cohn.

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. I don't think anyone in this country who is white, Christian and

in favor of hastening the end of times are people we should take lightly. They want to increase their numbers, and what better way to hasten the end of time but by voting for the neocon agenda which is doing precisely the kinds of things that will bring on the Apocalypse.

No, it's not in jest. I think it's time we take some of these white groups very seriously.

[cali]

21. SPLC

does track dangerous white groups, but I doubt they track the churches mentioned in this article. In my opinion (hey, I have a M.A. in MIllennial Studies), the folks being talked about in this article do not pose a threat to us, at least not at this time. Pre-millennial dispensation is pretty nutty stuff, but it doesn't indicate dangerousness.

[shadowknows69]

54. I agree

Because they're just as likely going to want to help Jesus purge the earth of helpless sinners as well.

[Born Free]

64. some are way out there

I overheard a couple of them talking, at first I thought they were just laughing to some jokes but after hearing a few more lines it sounded like they were describing to each other what they believe will happen to those "left behind" after they are called up by Christ. For some reason, they are OK because they are so called "Christians" and this is a "Christian" country

[sasha031]

9. yes, my exact thought when seeing this

they should be locked up and have the key thrown away...

[grytpype]

31. Yeah, they want to destroy the world.

Sounds pretty bad to me.

[shadowknows69]

55. And they think it needs to be done

With the holy nuclear fire and brimstone.

[Tigress DEM]

61. Terrorfied Terrorists?

When the Religious Community first woke up to the concept of World Wide Ministry via TV they said things like, "Well, unless everyone has heard the Word of God it wouldn't be fair for them to have been judged as not having accepted it." So they thought everyone finding out about Christ via televangilism was just a given. It wasn't about making things happen faster. It was about acknowledging the reality of what was possible with the technology.

The saddest thing is that even though the "message" of Christianity is going out, no one will want it with the way the NEO Fascist Faux Christians in power are behaving.

If they were really about the message, the war would need to end.

I never read any version of Revalations that said the spiritual community backing the Anti-Christ on purpose. Being duped, but not consciously trying to get the end game here sooner. Now maybe they don't realize they are reading the UPSIDE DOWN version of the Bible. BIG DIFFERENCE.

[VegasWolf]

2. They hope to hasten their acquisition of wealth. That's the real goal.

:puke:

[Dhalgren]

6. Yes, with their "Billion Dupes Fleeced" initiative!

If they can just get their hands on those folks' money, I'm sure Jesus would shout out "That's a wrap!", and all would just be peachy...

[superconnected]

16. good one.

Oh I'm slow. I didn't arrive at that yet.

All I could think was let's send em koolaid and arsenic and try to help them along.

[mzteris]

3. If they're so eager for the end

they should just take themselves off the count and leave everyone else ALONE!

[northzax]

5. if these people get a billion more followers

I'd think the end times are fairly likely, one of them is gonna end up with a nuke somehow.


course, the road to hell is paved with those who predicted the second coming. Included the Apostles themselves, the ones who heard it from Jesus. So far, they're off by about 1950 years and counting.

[RedEarth]

8. Maybe that's why the fires are burning in California .. the end is coming

...hell and damnation descending on LA.

[UpInArms]

11. One Word: Cultists

Killer cults tend to be led by charismatic megalomaniacs who pit themselves and their churches against the rest of the world. They are usually apocalyptic visionaries drunk with lust and power that have physical and sexual control over their followers. In most cases their beliefs stem from twisted interpretations of established doctrines. These self-proclaimed divinities usually amass a large arsenal of weapons before bringing forth their personal day of reckoning. The cults are listed according to number of kills associated with them.

[OnionPatch]

23. Yep but I call them

The New Pharisees. Boy are they going to be surprised if the end time really does come. Hypocrites and murderers don't go to Heaven.

[Wordie]

75. No, these aren't isolated wayward congregations, they're MAJOR US churches

not cults in the usual sense at all. I can see why you think they are, because the belief seems so strange. But these people represent a large portion of US Christianity. :(

[earth mom]

76. No-they are Cults.

They just cloak it all in the name of Christianity which is obvious ain't so Christian after all. All you have to do is look at what so called Christians like Pat Robertson and Bush Inc are saying and doing! The end times is crazy talk. :crazy:

[Wordie]

77. My point was more that these represent LOTS of people and aren't

just a few isolated groups. I agree completely that the idea is completely insane.

[earth mom]

78. I see what you mean now and that's the scariest part of all...

that so many could be controlled to such an extreme.

:scared:

[RedEarth]

12. They screwed up ... they didn't get on the same page as these evangelicals

86 Evangelical Leaders Join to Fight Global Warming


Despite opposition from some of their colleagues, 86 evangelical Christian leaders have decided to back a major initiative to fight global warming, saying that "millions of people could die in this century because of climate change, most of them our poorest global neighbors."

Among signers of the statement, which will be released in Washington on Wednesday, are the presidents of 39 evangelical colleges, leaders of aid groups and churches, like the Salvation Army, and pastors of megachurches, including Rick Warren, author of the best seller "The Purpose-Driven Life."

"For most of us, until recently this has not been treated as a pressing issue or major priority," the statement said. "Indeed, many of us have required considerable convincing before becoming persuaded that climate change is a real problem and that it ought to matter to us as Christians. But now we have seen and heard enough."

The statement calls for federal legislation that would require reductions in carbon dioxide emissions through "cost-effective, market-based mechanisms" — a phrase lifted from a Senate resolution last year and one that could appeal to evangelicals, who tend to be pro-business. The statement, to be announced in Washington, is only the first stage of an "Evangelical Climate Initiative" including television and radio spots in states with influential legislators, informational campaigns in churches, and educational events at Christian colleges.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/08/national/08warm.html?...

[sarcasmo]

14. When will their be mass suicides over this STUPIDITY.

[superconnected]

15. I'm Christian. They're scaring the fuck out of me.

My Church totally doesn't acknowlege this. Of course my Christian church also has a gay female minister and doesn't believe in things that aren't in the bible - ie the rapture.

[calimary]

44. Around this Presbyterian and Catholic household, it's called CRAPture.

Because that's all it is: CRAP. Somebody in the mid 1800's MADE IT UP. Extrapolated out of a couple of sentences in Scripture and MADE. IT. UP.

[Lars39]

17. Here's some more...bolding is mine...

"Meeting our goal has messianic dimensions.
It will certainly mean some kind of new world order," he said.
"I believe when that time comes, the power of peace will be greater than the power of war,
the power of love will be greater than the power of hate, and fullness will be greater than poverty and hunger."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
The Great Commission is the reason these pseudo-christians have so they can neglect the poor and run rough-shod over people in other countries.

Keep in mind Franklin Graham and his missionaries were in Iraq furthering the "Crusade" almost before the dust settled from the initial invasion. And I *still* want to know how many soldiers died because of Franklin's ass.

Here's the Southern Baptists' program:

http://www.empoweringkingdomgrowth.net/

[TrogL]

29. I thought these people were afraid of the "New World Order"

They really need to make up their minds.

[Lars39]

35. I'm bettin' the Rev Moon is involved behind the scenes.

[Megahurtz]

47. You would think, but

Poppy was known to quote this in 1992:

"Out of these troubled times... a New World Order can emerge....
My vision for a New World Order is an empowered United Nations"...
President George Bush, speaking before the UN General Assembly, 1992

But I think that they have their own agenda:

http://www.geocities.com/ceriason2000/The_Bush.html

[blm]

18. Terrorists and suicide bombers are hastening the EndTimes, too.

.

[leftstreet]

19. Sounds like a call to "wipe Earth" out of the solar system.

So many terrorists, so little time.

[MrPrax]

20. Is it insulting

to people's religious beliefs to think these End Time types are basically dangerous sociopaths who wake up everyday and perhaps the first thought in their head is...Today might be the day EVERYONE dies on the planet

Am I wrong to think maybe legal remedy might a course of action to discourage this type of hate speech...openly musing about killing ALL people you hate.

[cali]

28. Yes, you're wrong.

These people don't pose a realistic threat. Millenarianism has long been with us. Millenarianism was once a label applied strictly to eschatology; the xian end time belief system. It's been expanded in recent years to apply to end time beliefs of other religions. Every major, and most minor, religions have end of time scenarios. All are fairly violent. It's like creation mythology, a hard-drive thing.

[davekriss]

57. You don't see any threat to democracy...

...in the dreams for a theonomic state of Christian Reconstructionists/Dominionists? Not saying that the pastor of the OP is an adherent of any of the latter, however...

Note that Pat Robertson, for example (an alleged Dominionist), who calls for assassination of foreign leaders, for nuclear bombs to drop on our SCOTUS, threatens cities with God's wrath that don't vote as he'd like on particular issues, has purportedly given millions of dollars to rightwing leaders of death squads in Central America during the American Holocaust that surely produced significant suffering and death -- people like this are harmless?

[kineneb]

22. in what fairy tale?

They are just as nutty as the people protesting the cartoons. All the fundies (Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc.) should be gathered up, and placed all together in a large desert to argue out who is right. Meanwhile, the rest of us can go on with our lives, trying to make the world a Better Place for all who dwell upon it.

"When the rapture comes, leave your keys in the car."

[Amonester]

49. I believe they should all be taken care of in some...

mental health institute of some kind until their deepest fears they'll be capable of dealing with, sort of...

(Before it's "too late" for the rest of us, "sane" and peaceful people.)

Or, maybe it's just me. :freak:

[Tracer]

24. I truly believe that ...

... if there actually were to be a second coming of Christ, that Jesus would give these so-called "Christians" the ass-whuppin' of their lives.

[Maeve]

25. Apocalypse NOW, dammit!

God protect us from the people who claim to follow You...:eyes:

These nutjobs have been around for a long time, only now they are more open about it. They pretend to preach of god of love but believe in a god of hellfire. One reason I hope there is an afterlife is that I want them to get what they deserve.

[madmark]

26. its another form of death cult; just like the guys in the matching

sweatsuits and sneakers who offed themselves in san diego a couple of years ago. What were thay called? It had to do with aliens.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

27. "Of that day or hour no man knows, but my Father only"

Matthew 24:36

God does NOT work by their schedule, and will not be hastened by the plans of these people.

As a Christian, I believe in the Rapture. However, after just being outdoors and doing good work this find spring morning, I find I am very much in love with life and do not see what the hurry is. This is a place and a time worth living, and to attempt to cut it short out of fear is ridiculous.

[Bear down under]

43. Spot on, Prisoner!

People who "know" the End Times upon us are claiming knowledge denied even to the Messiah whom they say they are follwing.

[tenshi816]

60. Yes, and don't you find it

unbelievably arrogant of these people to think that they can hurry God along to fit in with their timetable rather than the other way around?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

30. What a dangerous religion.

WANTING the end of the world?

That's fucking frightening.

[Rocknrule]

32. Even more frightening

One of them is in the WH now

[Karenina]

33. Damn then Islamic fundies

THEY'RE VIOLENT and want to take away OUR right to "free speech!" :silly:

[hatrack]

34. And these people are different from Jim Jones . . . . how?

:eyes:

[htuttle]

40. Better marketing

[hatrack]

41. Buh-dah-BOOM

Thanks! :toast:

[ramapo]

36. How and Why?

I have a very difficult time trying to comprehend these beliefs and desires. It must have something to do with how these people are wired. There seems to be a lack of logic, common sense, and rational thinking. A very dangerous combination, especially when coupled with monetary, social, and political power.

[tanyev]

37. "The Rapture Exposed" by Barbara Rossing.

This is an excellent book for anyone interested in what more mainline denominations believe about the Book of Revelation. Not too long, easy to read.

From Publishers Weekly
Ordained minister Rossing is ready to do battle with evangelicals both within and outside of her Lutheran Church camp. Rossing, who teaches New Testament at the Lutheran School of Theology in Chicago, begins her sparring by taking on the widely popular Left Behind series and all it presumes to communicate about the future of the world. Claiming that the Left Behind authors' interpretation of prophetic biblical verses is "fiction," Rossing firmly asserts that the Book of Revelation has a completely different purpose than to predict upcoming world uprisings and the eventual end of the earth. Instead, Rossing believes that this biblical vision is meant to inspire humanity to seek out "repentance and justice." Rossing also maintains, somewhat unfairly, that rapture enthusiasts extol a careless, abusive attitude toward God's created world, since rapture theology declares that the followers of Christ are soon to be removed from it. More significant is Rossing's belief that Revelation does not offer a prophetic look at Jerusalem as the inevitable battleground between good and evil, but rather extends the promise of a New Jerusalem that will open its arms to all nations in peace. While Rossing's scholarly work is well organized and obviously carefully thought out, evangelicals may take issue with the blanket statement that "most Christian churches and biblical scholars condemn Rapture theology as a distortion of Christian faith with little biblical basis." This book will likely upset Christian conservatives while appealing to many in mainline denominations.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BHA3NG/sr=1-1/qid=1139437488/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-0662264-3534263?%5Fencoding=UTF8

[megatherium]

53. Yes, a terrific book.

I was very glad to read it. My mom read it and was very impressed -- she used to go to the local evangelical (Four Square) megachurch, but now she's back in the Episcopal church. She's conservative in a theological sense (she believes in the resurrection and in the divinity of Christ) but she got totally fed up with the rightwing politics in the evangelical church. She is really anti-Bush now.

[MisterP]

38. why are they doing Satan's job for him?

[twaddler01]

39. Bush is the self fulfilling prophecy for these people

isn't he? He makes a good anti-christ right? :shrug:

Just for kicks:

http://www.bushisantichrist.com/

[Solly Mack]

42. lolololololololololol that's hilarious. LMAO.

padded room time

Good thing they believe in God and God's ability to determine his will ...nightly prayer: "God's will be done - with a little added push to set things in motion - because God,and his divine will, aren't moving quite fast enough for us"

ROFLMAO

lololololololololololololol

with faith like that, who needs a God to turn to?

lolololololololololololol

Guess God's slacking on the job. "Hurry God, the all-powerful!( Who just needs a little help ending the world, since he's so obviously not powerful enough to do it own his own) - Thy will be done"

Good thing it's all about "God's will"


ROFLMAO

I'm dying here. lolololololololololol

[Megahurtz]

45. More Churches, More $Money$

with their Global Corporatism.:eyes: Oh I'm sure Jesus would be proud.

:sarcasm:

However, I think that the Evangelical Faux-Christian Winguts actually are feeling some sweatbeads form on their foreheads because as the Big Situation gets worse, they're still here!!!:rofl:
They wonder why they haven't been raptured up yet!!!:rofl:

So as a desperate attempt to hasten their flight away from the chaos
and rake in billions in the process they think that they can play God.

These people are dangerous because they seem to succeed in sucking millions of stuples into their "Rapture theory". These are the same followers that are behind this Administration for the same reasons. Then everyone else who is minding their own business has do deal with the One Giant Mess that they have created. And little do they know that they will still be here to experience it!

[shanti]

46. there, they said it!

they are nuts :scared:

[brentspeak]

48. Not all Christians believe in the Rapture/End Times

It's just symbolic for me.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

50. someone in alabama seems to be countering them

with all the church burnings.

[Marthe48]

51. I stopped going to church

right after I realized a hymn I was singing was about the extermination of 1/3 of everything on the planet. I can't bring myself to be a party to that kind of destruction and suffering. It might happen, God's will or natural forces, but I'm not going to celebrate it either way.

[Rex]

52. Hocus pokus, lickity smokus

I want to smokus whatever they're smokusen! :smoke:

[leesa]

56. I wish these ignorant fucks would go to their end times soon.

[recoveringrepublican]

58. Are they really so arrogant to think that GOD needs their help? nt

[Gelliebeans]

59. Is there an island somewhere

that we can go to that to live out our lives in peace with one another? OMG what are these people thinking? This is why they don't worry about ruining natural resources or war because they believe the rapture is coming.

:scared:

[yorgatron]

62. i should be allowed to shoot anyone who wants to "hasten the end times"

they're threatening my life,so i consider it self-defense.

[acmavm]

63. More insanity disguised as religion. More nuts pretending to be holy

prophets.

[DarkTirade]

65. How can these people be so arrogant

to think that the last 2000 years has been all about THEM and THEIR lifetime. The rapture hasn't come yet, and if it is coming, what's to say it won't take a few more thousand years? In the meantime, they've got no problem screwing things up here on earth, because hey, the rapture's coming right, it won't matter if we drain all the oil and set off a few nukes.

[BR_Parkway]

66. Pastors who know more than God - how arrogant of them

I mean, what sort of statement of their faith is it that they think they can hasten the End Time, which they loudly proclaim to be pre-ordained from the God they claim to worship.

[Jo March]

67. As a Christian, this is blasphemy

They can't hasten the work of God. They are doing this for all the wrong reasons - not for the love of Christ but for their own ends - and they will answer for it before God.

[wysiwyg]

68. Bush subscribes to these beliefs, right?

Bush is an evangelical but so is Jimmy Carter. Somehow, I don't think Jimmy Carter hopes to hasten the end times but it seems to me that George W. Bush does. Doesn't he ask for advice on the middle east from end-timers? Bush certainly acts like there won't be any future consequences to him for his administration's policies. Then again, perhaps he's confident that the Democrats will ever win again.

[FlaGranny]

69. I have a Catholic bible

that contains interpretations of the more difficult parts of the Bible. About Revelation, it says it "abounds in unfamiliar and extravagant symbolism" but it is typical of apocalyptic literature of the time. It says the symbolism is not to be taken literally. It says Revelation was composed as resistance literature due to early persecution of the church by the Romans and written by a man called John (who may or may not have been the apostle) and who was in an island penal colony (and, I'd guess, pretty upset about it). The interpretation explains that its relevance is that it describes Jesus' ultimate triumph over Satan.

I'm glad many Christians do not take every word in the Bible literally, but I guess that makes them "Satanic" to these End Times freaks.

I also understand that when the Christian Bible was first compiled, this book of Revelation was very controversial and almost didn't make the cut. Other writings of the time about Jesus did NOT get included in the Bible. Men composed the writings and the result is a reflection of their own beliefs and prejudices.

[schmuls]

70. Arrogant and ignorant. These people are more stupid than I

thought they were. They are giving Christianity a bad name (I am a Christian by the way). If they think they can hasten the rapture, then they don't understand God at all. No one knows when the second coming will take place. These people, with their influence in politics, really scare me. And the imposter in the White House is using them, and they do not know it!

[progressoid]

71. Oy vey!

[Wordie]

72. Evangelicals have been supporting the illegal Israeli settlements (sfgate)

in preparation for the endtimes and the rapture. Here is something from a San Francisco Chronical article, published in 2002, which documents the troubling extent of this support:

U.S. Christians find cause to aid Israel
Evangelicals financing immigrants, settlements

Danielle Haas, Chronicle Foreign Service

Wednesday, July 10, 2002

Tel Aviv -- ..."What I'm seeing is the Scriptures being fulfilled right before our very eyes," said Bishop Huey Harris, whose First Pentecostal Tabernacle Church in Elkton, Md., raised $2,500 from its congregation to help finance the American Jews' journey.

"What's next? I'm looking for the church to be raptured, Jesus returning for the church . . . and the Jews would receive him as their Messiah."

...Eckstein, who as head of the Jerusalem Friendship Fund for the past eight years claims to have collected some $60 million in donations from the evangelical community to assist Jewish immigration, has joined forces with former Christian Coalition head Ralph Reed, now a leading GOP consultant, as part of the effort. Their plans include an Internet site for supporters of Israel to write their congressional representatives.

...'ADOPT-A-SETTLEMENT'
"We've seen financial support . . . to the settlements double during the past 21 months," said Sondra Oster Baras, an Orthodox Jew and director of the Israel office of the Colorado-based Christian Friends of Israeli Communities, which runs an "Adopt-a-Settlement Program."

While declining to elaborate, other than to say the amount was in the low "hundreds of thousands of dollars," Baras estimated that one-third of the 145 Israeli settlements receive funds from Christians.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2002/07/10/MN17001.DTL

The article says that one third of the 145 settlements in the Occupied Territories (these are illegal under international law and on Palestinian land) are supported by the "Adopt a Settlement" program and that donations are in the "low hundreds of thousands," although it wasn't clear if that was an annual figure.

And remember, this article only talks about a few Evangelical groups sending money to support the illegal settlements in the Occupied Territories, there are many more.

[Wordie]

73. Dupe...weird DU problems earlier. eom

[OKthatsIT]

74. What do Bush and Pat Robertson have in common?

Putting TERROR in their minds...then stealing from the peopleWhat a scam this is.

Get all their money before the ship sinks. Bush and the economy are about to go down down down. The MegaChurches will need to brainwash their people even more vigorously...promising 1/5 of their family incomes?

[winston61]

79. last week I was having lunch with Santa and the Easter

Bunny and they said this was true!

[DainBramaged]

80. Jesus loves the end timers

[Emillereid]

81. I am so sick of these religious wing-nuts!

I wish some force would rapture these assholes (and their brethren in every religion) and leave us sane people to actually live peacefully on this pearl of a planet.

[banana republican]

82. These folks are in for a big surprise

when they find out that "Babylon the Great" is the good ole US of A; and that the Whore of Babylon is Falwell, Dobson & Robertson.

The old testament is filled with allegory, most of it political in nature.

If you don't think so read Samuel 8:11 - 8:22

This is how a king will treat you... He will make soldiers of your sons; some of them will serve his war chariots, others in his Calvary, and other will run before his chariots. He will make some of them officers in charge of a thousand men, and others in charge of fifty men. Your sons will have to plow his fields, harvest his crops, and make weapons and equipment for his chariots, Your daughters will have to make perfumes for him and work as his cooks and his bakers. He will take the best fields, vineyards, and olive groves, and give them to his officials.

He will take a tenth of your grain and of your grapes for his court officers and other officials. He will take your servants and your best cattle and donkeys (sorry dems but that is what it says) and make them work for him. He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. When that time comes, you will complain bitterly because of your king, whom you yourselves chose, but the LORD will not listen to your complaints.

The people paid no attention to Samuel, but said "NO WE WANT A KING, so that we will be like the other nations with our own king to rule us and lead us out to war and fight our battles.

And Samuel listened to them and went to the Lord and the Lord answered "Do what they want and give them a King.....