AP: Reid Aided Abramoff Clients, Records Show

[RamboLiberal]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060209/ap_on_go_co/abramoff_reid

Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid wrote at least four letters helpful to Indian tribes represented by Jack Abramoff, and the senator's staff regularly had contact with the disgraced lobbyist's team about legislation affecting other clients.

The activities — detailed in billing records and correspondence obtained by The Associated Press — are far more extensive than previously disclosed. They occurred over three years as Reid collected nearly $68,000 in donations from Abramoff's firm, lobbying partners and clients.

Reid's office acknowledged Thursday having "routine contacts" with Abramoff's lobbying partners and intervening on some government matters — such as blocking some tribal casinos — in ways Abramoff's clients might have deemed helpful. But it said none of his actions were affected by donations or done for Abramoff.

"All the actions that Senator Reid took were consistent with his long-held beliefs, such as not letting tribal casinos expand beyond reservations, and were taken to defend the interests of Nevada constituents," spokesman Jim Manley said.

[Katherine Brengle]

1. ugh, this just got really ugly... then again

Reid is a Senator from Nevada--his circumstances are not identical to those of the other characters in this mess...

[anotherdrew]

87. . . not news... How can the media SO not get it? disingenuous bullshit

HERE'S THE SOUND BITE:

Clearly the Republican controlled media is doing it's best for the party of god.

[mattclearing]

2. Hmmm.

I am withholding judgment on this until more information becomes available.

[meegbear]

30. Agreed ....

not happy about this.

[KoKo]

50. Josh Marshall at TPM says article is pretty weak stuff.....

AP to try to pull Sen. Reid into Abramoff story? Here's the piece just out on the AP wire. Pretty weak stuff, but John Solomon, the reporter, gives it the old college try. Give it a look, judge for yourself.
-- Josh Marsha

[KittyWampus]

61. Why? Reid isn't supposed to address needs of his constituents?

Indian tribes?
Just because they may have given money to Abramoff?


Why?

[SCDem]

3. Interesting what MSM chooses to disclose - detailed billing records

unfortunately they are not reporting on anyone else's "detailed" billing records and either that is because they choose not to because there is not the story that will titilate the public or those others being Republicans have not kept copious detailed records or if they have they are not being forthcoming with the Prosecutor

[mattclearing]

5. True, but the sentence that jumps out at me is:

"But Abramoff's records show his lobbying partners billed for nearly two dozen phone contacts or meetings with Reid's office in 2001 alone."

That "Abramoff-related" term suddenly applies in a way it didn't before. This suggests that Reid really did give access to people who donated in consultation with Abramoff's firm.

It basically makes Howard Dean a liar.

I'm not happy about it.

Edit: And I'm willing to bet Howard Dean isn't happy about it either.

[karynnj]

10. Dean's not a liar unless he knew or had reason to believe this was true.

If the story is correct, Dean was simply wrong. It does mean Reid did the party a disservice by not being honest.

[mattclearing]

16. That is exactly my point. It seems to indicate that Reid misled us all.

Abramoff's partners were billing for access to his office? That is news to me.

[kittenwithmittens]

19. My brother uses the same line

about Bushie's lies.

[Atman]

12. Now YOU'RE jumping to conclusions

It most certainly does not make Howard Dean a liar just because what Howard Dean said may turn out not to be true, if Dean was telling us only the information he knew when he said it. Same argument the Prez uses to say why he invaded Iraq -- the intel was bogus.

The difference is, we KNOW the intel wasn't bogus, just cooked. We know nothing YET about how Dean got the information he relayed. You might be absolutely correct. You might not. Fact is, you or I simply don't know enough about any of this yet. Maybe Reid/Reid's office lied to Dean.

[mattclearing]

20. That is exactly what I am saying.

That Reid basically let Dean defend him without giving him all the facts.

[flyarm]

39. actually dean said "from a fec report" i believe it was FEC report

if Dean got the info from the FEC than he was not wrong the FEC was wrong..dean quoted a government report nonetheless...

the federal election c..if they didn't know how would Howard Dean?

i think we are all jumping before getting full facts...

here is a interview with wolf blitzer

http://www.pastpeak.com/archives/2006/01/dean_crushes_bl.htm


BLITZER: Should Democrats who took money from Jack Abramoff, who's now pleaded guilty to bribery charges among other charges, a Republican lobbyist in Washington — should the Democrats who took money from him give that money to charity or give it back?
DEAN: There are no Democrats who took money from Jack Abramoff. Not one. Not one single Democrat. Every person named in this scandal is a Republican, every person under investigation is a Republican, every person indicted is a Republican. This is a Republican finance scandal. There is no evidence that Jack Abramoff ever gave any Democrat any money, and we've looked through all those FEC reports to make sure that's true.


fly

[mattclearing]

48. You're right.

Dean was saying that Abramoff did not personally donate to Dems.

Which is true.

Tribal clients of Abramoff donated to Dems.

However, if "Abramoff's partners" (whatever that means) billed for access to Reid, it means that the line we were previously running with, that Abramoff had nothing to do with the tribal donations to Reid, seems like it isn't necessarily so.

It's a difference from what we previously understood.

But you are correct, it does not directly contradict what Dean said.

However, I have to wonder that if Dean knew this, he might have been a little less gung-ho in leaping to Reid's defense.

Actually, who knows? Probably not.

[creeksneakers2]

86. Howard said this on Faux News Sunday Jan 29

WALLACE: So if we find — and I just want to — we have to wrap this up. But if we find that there were some Democrats who wrote letters on behalf of some of the Indian tribes that Abramoff represented, then what do you say, sir?

DEAN: That's a big problem, and those Democrats are in trouble, and they should be in trouble. And our party, if the American people will put us back in power in '06, we will have on the president's desk things that outlaw all those kinds of behaviors. Right now it's a Republican scandal. Maybe they'll find that some Democrats did something wrong, too. That hasn't been the case yet.

[Teaser]

13. How does it make dean a liar?

Still gotta show abramoff money going to Reid to do that.

[mattclearing]

25. You may be right.

But it definitely looks worse than it did before.

That Abramoff's partners were billing for access to Reid's office seems much worse than, "his clients donated to Democrats."

[Mass]

14. No - He still did not get any money from Abramoff

which is what Dean said.

I am willing to wait for facts. It is obvious that this is the idea of the media to be fair: take a huge scandal on one direction and find crumbs on the other side to say they are balanced.

Did Reid get several millions from lobbyists? Did he held checks on the Senate floor as the current House Republican leader did? Did he get a trip to Scotland? Clearly not.

What he did was to meet with lobbyists, as all Senators including McCain did, and get some contributions from Indian tribes. (You can find a find of sets and make it look bad for all politicians if you want).

[ClassWarrior]

15. None of the ILLEGAL Abramoff money went to Dems. Not a penny.

Most if not all Congresspeople received legal money from Abramoff's firm - otherwise they wouldn't be a "big DC player." That's not the issue. The issue is the money Jackoff STOLE from the tribes, LAUNDERED through fake charities, and FUNNELLED TO THE GOP.

NGU.

[mattclearing]

27. True enough.

Still, it makes us look bad when we deny things that aren't illegal, just to avoid associations.

[azureblue]

26. Identify "Lobbying Partners"

Were they employees of Abr.? Were they other businesses that Abr. Directed? Were they, as probably the case, people who did business with both Abr and Read, but not on instructions from one or the other? When it comes to Repug releases, always read the fine print /weasel words.

[mattclearing]

28. That is the million dollar question, isn't it? n/t

[jsamuel]

42. That line is misleading, read it again and call Dean a lier

"But Abramoff's records show his lobbying partners billed for nearly two dozen phone contacts or meetings with Reid's office in 2001 alone."

Doesn't that just mean that Abramoff's buddies billed Tribal clients for meetings that they set up with Reid? That doesn't say that Reid got any money from those meetings, just the lobbiests... and that is what lobbiests do for a job. This seems like another hit peice...

[mattclearing]

45. I agree.

But it does seem to indicate that Reid was more involved with Abramoff than we were led to believe.

And I'm not calling Dean a liar. I'm pointing out that Dean went out on morning shows primarily to defend Reid, and this new information makes him look disingenuous, if not outright in conflict with the truth.

I'm saying Reid let Dean defend him on national television without having all the facts.

[jsamuel]

47. well, if you remember, Dean said "no evidence I have seen" has shown

Dems to be under investigation for anything illegal

That was true. And still is.

[mattclearing]

49. That is still true.

But it pisses me off that Reid's office was taking Abramoff's offices' calls, which this definitely seems to indicate.

[jsamuel]

51. every senator probably took calls from all lobbiests

that is the way it works, right?

[mattclearing]

52. Abramoff is not one of our guys though.

It's like if Grover Norquist called. The answer should be, "Fuck off."

[jsamuel]

54. "Abramoff's records show his lobbying partners"

not Abramoff, but "associates of Abramoff"... just like "Abramoff-related money"

[mattclearing]

55. Gotcha.

I agree that it's a hit piece. God only knows the hit piece one could write on the Republicans.

The problem with Republicans and this is that it's not a story that Republicans are corrupt...everyone already knows that.

[Fleshdancer]

68. so Abramoff is bad and his lobbying partners are good?

do we really believe this?

[jsamuel]

89. haha,no,but corporations aren't good either, but most people work for them

lobbyists aren't good in general but all congressmen deal with them

All I am saying is that there is nothing illegal in this. How I wish lobbyists and corporations were out of the election business!

[Fleshdancer]

95. I have mixed emotions on lobbyists

at the State level, I see many who do noble jobs. My mom use to lobby on behalf of the MHMR (Mental Health Mental Retardation) agency many moons ago and she did so as a true advocate for mental health. At the end of the day, I think lobbying isn't the problem, it's greed, corruption of power and the general assumption that most Americans are too stupid to understand and too apathetic to care.

The problem I have with the Abramoff story (and this particular thread) is that the story has become less about the corruption and more about whether Democrats were or were not involved. This makes no sense to me. Both sides are coming across as complete idiots because no one is focusing on the actual problem. It drives me nuts.

[wryter2000]

84. Abramoff related

Was the money Abramoff's wife gave to the clerk at the grocery story "Abramoff-related"?

Isn't Abramoff's firm a huge one? So what if some other lobbyists talked to Reid's office and billed for it? Don't do Uncle Karl's work for him.

[KittyWampus]

63. NO! The article does NOT say Reid took Abramoff's calls. You have

misinterpreted what was written because it was INTENTIONALLY written to confuse us.

[aquart]

57. Hit piece is exactly what it looks like.

And ever so carefully crafted.

Democratic leadership can mumble and shuffle, or fight back. Finally.

[JWS]

75. I can't argue with that

Anytime surreptitious language is used to build weak links it proves the writer had some sort of agenda

[Demoiselle]

91. Billed for phone contacts or meetings?

Isn't one of Abramoff's crimes that he lied to his clients? Took money
for pretending to do things? How are Abramoff's billing "records" conclusive here?
He's a crook and a liar, right?
And isn't it possible that Reid had long standing relationships with these tribes
before Abramoff muscled in? Met with them, did work on their behalf which he
would have done and had done before without Abramoff involved?
I'm not ready to swallow this one yet.

[central scrutinizer]

59. Just because they billed their clients

doesn't mean they actually did anything. Remember, Abramoff was bilking his clients out of millions. I can imagine how it might have gone down: Lobbyist calls Reid's office, talks with receptionist for one minute, grabs his billing sheet and decides to round up to the nearest hour. Sends monthly billing sheet off to client, laughs all the way to the bank. Lobbyists and lawyers have "billable" hours down to a science.

[KittyWampus]

62. What you just pointed out says NOTHING about Reid doing anything

illegal, improper or unethical.

[Buford Pusser]

65. But emails show Abramoff and Co. fabricated their billings.

So who knows if this sentence you quoted means anything:

"But Abramoff's records show his lobbying partners billed for nearly two dozen phone contacts or meetings with Reid's office in 2001 alone."

[MagickMuffin]

69. I think your missing the point of Dean's statement

He said that no democrat took any of Abramoff's money, not one dime.

What this implies to me is that Casino Jack only donated money to the repubs.

His lobbying firm contributed to both parties.
Which it did. More over the tribes who contributed to the dems had been giving more money to the dems until they were represented by Casino Jack, at which time their donations to the dems started yo decrease in dollar amounts.

[MrBenchley]

4. Sounds like he helped Abramoff's victims....

[stepnw1f]

9. Bingo! (nt)

[MrBenchley]

22. Remember, Abramoff ripped the tribes off for millions

that he used to promote against their interest; he illegally rigged tribal elections; AND he sent racist e-mails to other Republicans mocking them.

Some "clients."

[stepnw1f]

35. Republicans Truely Disgust Me

A Dem helps them, and gets skewered for it. A Republican rips them off, and the media is mum. What bullshit!

[MrBenchley]

58. You and me both--Republicans are the scum of the earth

[Catrina]

34. Exactly and isn't it interesting how diligently the propaganda machine

is working to try to find a Democrat to add to the long, long list of Republicans who directly took Abramoff money, and all they can come up with is that Reid acted as he always did when it came to this issue.

However, this could totally backfire on Republicans ~ because if this is the standard they are going to use to 'nail' a Democrat, then the entire Republican party will be involved.

Up to now, only Republicans who took money DIRECTLY from Abramoff (not all of them did, some only took money from his CLIENTS) were under a cloud. NOW that list grows way longer ~ :rofl:

If you want to see how many MORE REPUBLICANS we can NOW add to the already long list of direct recipients (here they are as a reminder)

From the Fereal Election Commission:

Donor: Abramoff, Jack A. & Pamela

Recipient Donor Total Cycle

Frank A. LoBiondo (R-NJ) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela ($1,000) 2006
Eric Cantor (R-Va) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $8,000 2004

Republican Majority Fund, Leadership PAC of Don Nickles (R-Okla) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $5,000 2004

Rich PAC, Leadership PAC of Richard Pombo (R-Calif) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $5,000 2004
Americans for a Republican Majority, Leadership PAC of Tom DeLay (R-Texas) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $5,000 2004

Arlen Specter (R-Pa) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $4,000 2004
George W. Bush (R) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $4,000 2004
John Ensign (R-Nev) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $4,000 2004
Johnny Isakson (R-Ga) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $4,000 2004

Keep Our Majority PAC, Leadership PAC of Dennis Hastert (R-Ill) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,500 2004

Charles H. Taylor (R-NC) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2004
Chris Cannon (R-Utah) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2004
Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2004
Mark Foley (R-Fla) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2004

Leadership PAC 2004, Leadership PAC of Michael G. Oxley (R-Ohio) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2004

Richard Pombo (R-Calif) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2004
Senate Victory Fund, Leadership PAC of Thad Cochran (R-Miss) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2004
Christopher S. 'Kit' Bond (R-Mo) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,500 2004
Curt Weldon (R-Pa) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2004
Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2004
Doug Ose (R-Calif) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2004
Ernest J. Istook (R-Okla) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2004
George R. Nethercutt Jr. (R-Wash) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2004
Jim Bunning (R-Ky) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2004
Richard C. Shelby (R-Ala) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2004
Rely on Your Beliefs, Leadership PAC of Roy Blunt (R-Mo) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2004
Tom DeLay (R-Texas) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2004
Tom Feeney (R-Fla) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2004

Americans for a Republican Majority, Leadership PAC of Tom DeLay (R-Texas) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $10,000 2002
Friends of the Big Sky, Leadership PAC of Conrad Burns (R-Mont) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $5,000 2002
Republican Party of New Jersey Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $5,000 2002
Senate Victory Fund, Leadership PAC of Thad Cochran (R-Miss) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $5,000 2002

Dan Burton (R-Ind) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $3,000 2002
Eric Cantor (R-Va) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $3,000 2002
Suzanne Terrell (R-La) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $3,000 2002

American Liberty PAC, Leadership PAC of Bob Ney (R-Ohio) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,500 2002

Rob Simmons (R-Conn) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,250 2002
Charles W. "Chip" Pickering Jr. (R-Miss) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2002
Connie Morella (R-Md) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2002
Gordon H. Smith (R-Ore) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2002
James M. Inhofe (R-Okla) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2002
James M. Talent (R-Mo) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2002
John T. Doolittle (R-Calif) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2002
John Thune (R-SD) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2002
Tim Hutchinson (R-Ark) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2002
Tom DeLay (R-Texas) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2002
Bob Smith (R-Fla) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,240 2002
Bob Ney (R-Ohio) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2002
C. L. "Butch" Otter (R-Idaho) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2002
Carolyn W. Grant (R-NC) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2002
Denny Rehberg (R-Mont) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2002
Elizabeth Dole (R-NC) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2002
Frank A. LoBiondo (R-NJ) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2002
Heather Wilson (R-NM) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2002
J. Randy Forbes (R-Va) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2002
Jack Kingston (R-Ga) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2002
James V. Hansen (R-Utah) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2002
John Cornyn (R-Texas) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2002
Battle Born PAC, Leadership PAC of John Ensign (R-Nev) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2002
Kimo Kaloi (R-Hawaii) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2002
Marilyn Musgrave (R-Colo) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2002
Mike Ferguson (R-NJ) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2002
Mike Simpson (R-Idaho) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2002
Ralph Regula (R-Ohio) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2002
Ric Keller (R-Fla) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2002

Rely on Your Beliefs, Leadership PAC of Roy Blunt (R-Mo) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2002

Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2000
Ted Stevens (R-Alaska) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2002
Thad Cochran (R-Miss) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2002
Dave Camp (R-Mich) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $500 2002
Phil Gingrey (R-Ga) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $500 2002
Tom Young (R-Ala) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $500 2002
Bill Janklow (R-SD) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $250 2002

Rely on Your Beliefs, Leadership PAC of Roy Blunt (R-Mo) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $6,500 2000
Americans for a Republican Majority, Leadership PAC of Tom DeLay (R-Texas) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $4,000 2000

Tom DeLay (R-Texas) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $4,000 2000

Fund for a Free Market America, Leadership PAC of Phil Crane (R-Ill) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,750 2000

Bob Ney (R-Ohio) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2000
Craig Thomas (R-Wyo) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2000
Dan Burton (R-Ind) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2000
Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2000
Eric Cantor (R-Va) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2000
George W. Bush (R) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2000
John Ashcroft (R-Mo) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2000
John T. Doolittle (R-Calif) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2000
Spencer Abraham (R-Mich) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2000
William L. Gormley (R-NJ) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $2,000 2000
Bill McCollum (R-Fla) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2000
Bill Redmond (R-NM) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2000
Bob Riley (R-Ala) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2000
C. L. "Butch" Otter (R-Idaho) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2000
Claude B. Hutchison Jr. (R-Calif) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2000
Denny Rehberg (R-Mont) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2000
Francis E. Flotron (R-Mo) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2000
George Allen (R-Va) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2000
Team PAC, Leadership PAC of J. D. Hayworth (R-Ariz) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2000
Mike Enzi (R-Wyo) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2000
Walter B. Jones Jr. (R-NC) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $1,000 2000
Paul Ryan (R-Wis) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $949 2000
Bob Smith (R-Fla) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $920 2000
Joe Pitts (R-Pa) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $894 2000
Charles H. Taylor (R-NC) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $750 2000
Bob Ehrlich (R-Md) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $500 2000
Charles R. Gerow (R-Pa) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $500 2000
Charles W. "Chip" Pickering Jr. (R-Miss) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $500 2000
Ed Royce (R-Calif) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $500 2000
Elia Vincent Pirozzi (R-Calif) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $500 2000
Jerry Weller (R-Ill) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $500 2000
Mark Emerson (R-Utah) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $500 2000
Tom Davis (R-Va) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $500 2000
Van Hilleary (R-Tenn) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $500 2000
Rick A. Lazio (R-NY) Abramoff, Jack A & Pamela $250 2000

http://www.capitaleye.org/abramoff_donor.asp

Now, where do we find a list of Republicans who took money from ABRAMOFF'S CLIENTS? I don't think those Republicans are going to be too happy about this. They probably felt they were off the hook, not having taken direct donations ~ but what's good for the goose is good for the gander, imo.

Let's ask the Media to take a look at that as diligently as they are searching for a Democrat. Surely they wouldn't be biased, would they?

[MrBenchley]

60. Well put....

This mess is no more bipartisan than it is mint-flavored. Abramoff himself is on record many times talking abouyt how much he hates hates hates Democrats.

[IndianaGreen]

6. Reid opposed the Alito filibuster

He is already tainted in my book. Reid could be tainted in other ways too.

[Mass]

18. I dont like him, but this story is BS fed to AP by the GOP in order

to make things look the same for both parties. A murderer and a parking ticket. Look. They are all guilty.

[Jane Austin]

108. Reid could be tainted in other ways too.

Or not.

This thread is Karl Rove's wet dream.

[stepnw1f]

7. So What? Guilt Through Association?

Jesus the GOP is desperate. Haven't we been through this already?!

[w13rd0]

8. Without knowing the details...

...of his actions, and considering he's a senator for Nevada, the gambling capitol of the USA, it seems that the headline is written to elicit a certain reaction which may or may not reflect the actual details. I'm for culling corruption, wherever it is found, but I also realize how damned desperate the GOP is to have this NOT be a "Republican scandal".

[medeak]

11. he's my senator and it's total bs n/t

[0007]

66. It does have a funny smell to it.....I can't buy it on the basis of

this article.

[cyberpj]

17. Man! Rove has been really busy in the last few days hasn't he? nt

[wisteria]

21. Top story - the media will play it up for all it is worth.

Democratic Minority leader took money from Abramoff. How come Reid didn't mention this before it was "found out"? Even if it was innocent, it looks bad now and the White House will make sure the media takes it to the extreme.
Well, can't you just here it now, they all do this. Democrats and Repubs are all corrupt. Seems to me this is no longer going to be perceived as just a Republican scandal.

[terip64]

23. I'm afraid you might be right

[Norquist Nemesis]

36. You've got it! That's what's going to be happening

Spin spin spin They're going to take a snapshot in time without explaining anything else and try to dirty up Reid. GOP's going to LOVE it and I have no doubt the hate choir is joyously singing into each of their respective microphones.

So, I just hope Dems step up and state it's another case of "misdirection" by not presenting all of the facts. Just like Katrina, SS privatization in the budget, Domestic spying, WMD, Medicare, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc....

[Snivi Yllom]

70. its one ofthe top political stories on Yahoo

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060209/ap_on_go_co/abramoff_reid;_ylt=AmwGjA4RL9VzLfAnsxJmYKyyFz4D;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--

Reid Aided Abramoff Clients, Records Show

WASHINGTON - Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid wrote at least four letters helpful to Indian tribes represented by Jack Abramoff, and the senator's staff regularly had contact with the disgraced lobbyist's team about legislation affecting other clients.

The activities — detailed in billing records and correspondence obtained by The Associated Press — are far more extensive than previously disclosed. They occurred over three years as Reid collected nearly $68,000 in donations from Abramoff's firm, lobbying partners and clients.

Reid's office acknowledged Thursday having "routine contacts" with Abramoff's lobbying partners and intervening on some government matters — such as blocking some tribal casinos — in ways Abramoff's clients might have deemed helpful. But it said none of his actions were affected by donations or done for Abramoff.

[JWS]

76. Yep

There gonna try and show that Reid is worse than abramoff himself, maybe even that Abramoff was a unwitting victim of Reid's conspiring.

[blm]

24. Tribe money wasn't DIRTY UNTIL ABRAMOFF BRIBED HIS PET REPUBS WITH IT.

Please file that away for your arguments. Too many are missing that CRUCIAL POINT.

[gkhouston]

29. sounds like a more detailed version of the accusations made

against Reid when the Abramoff scandal originally broke, but I'm still seeing some interesting phrasing... always "Abramoff's partners" or "Abramoff's clients" and not Abramoff himself. Gosh, there are Indian tribes in Nevada and they want to lobby their representatives. Who'd've thunk it?

Someone is trying awfully hard to make a Dem look dirty. Surprise, surprise.

[patdem]

When they say "Abramhoff's firm" are they refering to HIS firm or the firm

he was working for at the time of the contributions? You know that law firm Abramhoff worked for who are NOW denouncing him? THAT FIRM? or Abramhoff's PERSONAL firm? Could make a WORLD of difference?

[patdem]

31. When they say "Abramhoff's firm" are they refering to HIS firm or the firm

he was working for at the time of the contributions? You know that law firm Abramhoff worked for who are NOW denouncing him? THAT FIRM? or Abramhoff's PERSONAL firm? Could make a WORLD of difference?

[EFerrari]

32. I didn't know Jack Abramoff owned Indians Tribes. n/t

[KoKo]

33. We ought to wait before judgement on this... AP obtained records fromWHOM?

The activities — detailed in billing records and correspondence obtained by The Associated Press — are far more extensive than previously disclosed. They occurred over three years as Reid collected nearly $68,000 in donations from Abramoff's firm, lobbying partners and clients.

If Reid knew these existed but was trying to cover it up he surely would have known that an "enemy" would reveal it sooner or later. So, even though I don't feel Reid has been a good leader, I would wait until we know more about this. AP has hardly been fair to Dems in the past and the Repugs always do tactics like this...putting some info out to the wire services making it sound sinister and then causing the Dem to have to be on the defensive when we find out afterwards that what was put out was distorted.

[Ganja Ninja]

37. Reid is from Nevada.

His state's economy more than any other is dependent on the casino industry. The fact that he would be approached by Abramoff or other lobbyist for the casino industry isn't surprising or even a crime necessarily. He's a logical choice when bills dealing with casino regulation are up for consideration. And he's also a logical choice to protect Nevada's casino industry over casino's in other states.

[Up2Late]

38. This is BS! Read the Head line, "...Abramoff Clients!!!" SO WHAT!

He's FROM NEVADA! Reid represents ALL of the people of NEVADA! Some of the people in Nevada ARE INDIANS!

SO, If Reid represented, or "Aided" the people of Nevada, it would follow that, "Reid Aided Abramoff Clients..."

GOOD FOR REID! It more than I can say for my Diebold selected ReThuglican senators for the people of Georgia!

And I'm sorry but, "...The activities — detailed in billing records and correspondence obtained by The Associated Press — are far more extensive than previously disclosed. They occurred over three years as Reid collected nearly $68,000 in donations from Abramoff's firm, lobbying partners and clients..." just doesn't cut it for me.

WHERE ARE THESE non-specific "...billing records and correspondence...???" Oh, that's right, Trust us, but until then, we will drag the Senate Minority Leaders name through the mud.

ALSO, WHY is this article NOT available at the AP Website!!!!???!!! Here, try it yourself, go to the AP website and search for "Reid ", here's the first few I got, but when you click on the link to what should be this article, it doesn't go anywhere!!!

<http://staging.hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/specials/today-in-history/index.html?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME>

Results for search of stories matching "Reid ".

1-25 of 107
Paw and Order: Kitten Helps Bust Vet Scam Feb 9, 2:57 PM EST
Reid Aided Abramoff Clients, Records Show Feb 9, 2:42 PM EST
Officer: Exiting Troops May Face Conflict Feb 8, 11:12 PM EST
GOP's 'Anger' Strategy Has Dems Defensive Feb 8, 5:14 PM EST
London Police: Mosque a Terrorist Haven Feb 8, 4:14 PM EST
Iraq Coalition Shrinking Feb 8, 2:18 PM EST
Doctors Back Needle Exchange Programs Feb 6, 9:49 AM EST
National Guard Plan Proves a Tough Sell Feb 4, 10:34 PM EST
Defense Chiefs Say NATO Must Modernize Feb 4, 8:37 PM EST

This is another KKKarl special.

[jsamuel]

40. This line here is the "beef" of the article, but they wrote is so strange

that I can't even figure out exactly what they are saying:

"But Abramoff's records show his lobbying partners billed for nearly two dozen phone contacts or meetings with Reid's office in 2001 alone."

Doesn't that just mean that Abramoff's buddies billed Tribal clients for meetings that they set up with Reid? That doesn't say that Reid got any money from those meetings, just the lobbiests... and that is what lobbiests do for a job. This seems like another hit peice...

[mattclearing]

41. That's what I got from it, and I didn't like it.

But if you look at the responses to my message, you'll see that it's still not enough information to determine if that's bad or not.

[catnhatnh]

43. The indian nonsense COULD all be anti gambling stance....

...to protect his home state...but I am worried about the Mariannas deal and Malaysia trip...if ANY of that is true,then we as democrats must force him from his leadership position and the sooner the better, or we will totally abandon the moral high ground.And if he KNOWS of any ethics lapse and hides it we must drive him to resignation...rules are rules and crooked is crooked.No exceptions...

[kcass1954]

44. Let the swiftboating begin!

If you just look at the headline and the first few paragraphs, it certainly "looks" like Reid is involved. How many people are really going to read the entire article? You have to get down aways to get the straight poop.

[Up2Late]

56. Very true, but now what WILL happen is, this article will get picked up...

...then edited down to 4 to 8 "paragraphs" (which are usually just double spaced sentiences), which each paper can edit any way they want. Most of the time, changing the slant of the article.

THEN, in about 5-10 hours, UPI's "NewTrack" will pick it up and edit it further (down to about 4-5 sentiences) further slanting it to the right.

I've been watching this process of distortion for several months now, this is how it works these day.

Here's a link for UPI's NewsTrack, look for this in a few hours, or Google it now, then click on the News link at the top of Google, if you want to watch this article spread like a virus.

<http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/#Top%20News>

<http://news.google.com/news?q=&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&tab=wn>

[kcass1954]

74. Already happened - check this link.

http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4480374&nav=8faO

Paints Harry in a much more unfavorable light, doesn't it? Bastards!

[Up2Late]

81. Yep, but just wait, when UPI's NewsTrack re-edits it, it will be...

...much worst.

They often cut and paste within paragraphs, moving quotes and re-ordering what was written. It really should be illegal, but they know we respect "Freedom of the Press" too much to challenge them.

Note: They will most likely change the Headline too. I'll post it here when I see it.

[KoKo]

46. Looks like Edward Ayoob (Former Reid Counsel)leaked the documents

One of the Marianas contacts, listed for May 30, 2001, was with Edward Ayoob, Reid's legislative counsel. Within a year, Ayoob had left Reid's office to work for Abramoff's firm, registering specifically to lobby for the islands as well as several tribes. Manley confirmed Ayoob had subsequent lobbying contacts with Reid's office.

[KoKo]

53. Definitely a Swift Boat attempt...Troll just posted it without a link on

DU a little bit ago. That's always a sure sign somethings afoot...

[garybeck]

64. PUH-LEEEZE....

working with Abramoff's clients is meaningless. Why are you posting this misleading article?

look, this is like saying if you shop at K-Mart you must be involved in the Martha Stewart scandal.

don't buy this BS.

[Fleshdancer]

67. I'm not going to defend him just because he's a Democrat

I would love for Reid to be 100% innocent in all of this, but I'm not going to hold my breath. This scandal is huge already without the full details released so I can only imagine how much more information we'll find out over the course of this year. Sure, Abramoff was a republican and only contributed personally to republicans, but I think his greed and thirst for power outweighed his personal political beliefs. I think it's a mistake to only focus on who Abramoff personally donated to because it doesn't come close to addressing the issue of corruption.

Let's be honest with ourselves. If this headline said Frist or Delay instead of Reid, would the responses in this thread be the same? We're talking about the erosion of Democracy here. The purchasing and selling of publicly elected officials. I don't care what party they belong to, I want every congress person who has had contact with Abramoff and/or his firm to explain what the hell they were doing and why. I want my government to be held accountable. If Reid's office acknowledged having routine contacts with Abramoff's lobbying partners, don't you want to know WHY?

[JWS]

73. If it said frist or delay

I would still read the whole article first, and note any possible biases by the reporters, this article presents false conclusions in the headline just as in the previous headline "Hillary defends contributions to candidate." It seems the press recently has been overstating the impact of actions by democrats and understating those of Repubs, more attempts at being fair and balanced.

[garybeck]

92. REID DIDN'T RECEIVE ANY MONEY FROM ABRAMOFF!

PEOPLE, please don't buy this BS!

just because Reid did business with a client of Abramoff, that means NOTHING!

If I shop at KMart, does that mean I conspired with Martha Stewart?

There is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE to suggest that Reid did anything wrong. and no one has suggested that he accepted any money from Abramoff. You are buying complete BULLSHIT that is being fed to you.

[Fleshdancer]

94. I'm not buying anything being "fed" to me so back the hell off.

heaven forbid anyone should read beyond the subject line before posting accusatory knee jerking bs. How about going back, reading what I originally wrote, and THEN responding without the school yard rhetoric? Is that possible? Can we try that?

The truth is more important than politics in times like this. Like I said before (not that you read it) I hope Reid is 100% innocent but come the hell on...this is DC we're talking about so why get upset if I don't hold my breath? Tell me what I accused him of when I said I had questions?

What exactly is SO wrong with questioning elected officials and demanding answers? Name it. I really want to know.

[Phoonzang]

71. Great, I knew this would happen..

I knew this scandal affecting only Republicans would be too good to be true. It doesn't really matter if Reid's involvement was minor, it'll get played up. I can imagine what the voters will be thinking: "Well looks like there's no difference between the two parties after all...they're all crooks". :thumbsdown:

[JWS]

72. Pretty much another attempt to overstate Democrats role

in the Abramoff scandal, afterall it's well known abramoff sought the destruction of the democratic party.

I wish articles would better represent the details in the headlines....

[IsItJustMe]

77. Sounds like more CNN Republican Propaganda

I am constantly hearing news organizations trying to tie the Democrats into this scandal.

It's part of the "They all do it syndrome".

[VegasWolf]

78. My opinion, investigate them all. Prosecute any guilty ones. nt

[VirginiaDem]

79. Reid voted AGAINST Abramoff clients on issue at hand

Check out latest post at mydd.com. Reid voted against Abramoff and the Republicans on the Marianna Islands minimum wage vote, which was a major part of this hitpiece.

Here's the relevant quote:

"The kicker, of course, is that for all of their effort, Reid never supported the Abramoff position. The very definition of "quid pro quo" is "this for that." In politics, this means something valuable like money or gifts for a politician's votes or some other form of official support. In this case, though Reid or his staffers may have taken meetings on the subject, it never amounted to anything. In other words, there may have been quid, but there was no quo. So this convoluted story is just that -- a convoluted story. No climax, no punchline, and most importantly, no evidence of wrongdoing on the part of Reid."


Here's the permalink:
http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/2/9/163540/9804

Edited to add quote and link and change title.

[wryter2000]

80. Oh, yawn

Again?

[TriMetFan]

82. Instead of every one getting their panties in a wad over this....

Just set back and watch how the repukes are going to try and make it seem like there are all these Demo's that are just as guilty as them. Look I'm not trying to make excuses for Reid, but lets not hang Reid for what looks more and more like a repuke disaster.

[rocktivity]

83. If the records also show that Reid TOOK NO MONEY from Abramoff

then this story is nothing but a Republican smear attempt. Writing letters on behalf of ANYONE is neither illegal or unethical.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Rex]

85. Breaking: press whores trample one another to get to phone booths.

Get ready for the RW media POUNCE. :puke:

[OKthatsIT]

88. And Reid thought he was fighting a fair war...lol...get to work Harry!

[dweller]

90. soooo ... i take it there will be

pictures of Reid and JackOff together???



didn't think so.

:eyes:

dp

[Senator Obama]

93. Remember the President took money from the same

channels. What has always been so funny to me is that wingnuts have been so deperate to say the Dems did it too and expand this list of diners at the trough to Dems who got money from Abramoff clients. Well, this is not only quite legal, but the president himself is among the recipients of money through that route. I think we need some detailed records over there too.

Obama

[NNguyenMD]

96. His reelection committee took campaign money from tribes who benefited

from some things he did legislatively and using his influence as a senator writing a few letters.

Gee, who DOESN'T do that in Washington these days? You think NOW doesn't write a check now and then to Kerry, Boxer, or Clinton for voting for pro-choice legislation?

Doesn't sound like Reid did anything illegal at all. Is it political and does it sound uncomfortable for most American that this happens in Congress? Of course, but compared to what Duke "Top Gun" Cunningham did with living rent free in Abramoff's boat home and making a killing from selling his house to Abramoff...THATs illegal.

Do I feel comfortable with Reid receiving CAMPAIGN money from organizations who benefitted from his stances...not completely but its not like we were all born yesterday. This is what happens in Washington and this is how these guys stay alive in the reelection sense. But I don't sense a whiff of corruption or illegality compared to what the republicans had cooking up with Jack-Abram-Off.

[hyphenate]

97. Like many other states in the southwest

Reid dealt with the Indian tribes as part of his constituency. If he dealt with Abramoff, it was as Abramoff holding the role of liaison between the tribes and the government. It doesn't sound, from the bit I read, to have been the same kind of case where there was bribery, collusion and other nasty goings-on between the government and the tribes or their representative.

On the whole matter, it seems to me that a Senator who was representing his state in Congress had to have dealt with such liaisons at some point if he were doing his job of representing the residents of his state.

[Postmanx]

98. Abramoff Team and Reid's Office Had Frequent Contact, Records Show

WaPo

Senate Minority Leader Harry M. Reid wrote at least four letters helpful to Indian tribes represented by Jack Abramoff, and Reid's staff had frequent contact with the disgraced lobbyist's team about legislation.

The activities -- detailed in previously unreported billing records and correspondence -- occurred over three years as Reid (D-Nev.) collected nearly $68,000 in political donations from Abramoff's firm, lobbying partners and clients.

Abramoff's firm also hired one of Reid's top legislative aides as a lobbyist. The aide later helped throw a fundraiser for Reid at Abramoff's firm that raised money from several of Abramoff's lobbying partners.

A Reid spokesman said none of the senator's actions were affected by donations or done for Abramoff. "All the actions that Senator Reid took were consistent with his long-held beliefs, such as not letting tribal casinos expand beyond reservations, and were taken to defend the interests of Nevada constituents," spokesman Jim Manley said.

[MrBenchley]

99. Did you see Josh Marshall?

"Did AP call Ron Platt? I mean, he clearly was willing to talk, and he clearly would have added to the story. Or actually, made a third of the story false, but be that as it may..."

(Platt, of course, is the former Greenberg-Traurig lobbyist who the AP article alleges was Abramoff's point of contact in trying to persuade Reid to support the position of the Marianas Island sweatshop owners. For the details on this and why talking to Platt might have been relevant, see this earlier post from this afternoon.)

Anyway, that sounded like a good question.

So I got hold of Platt and asked him. He told me he hadn't spoken to them for the piece and they'd made no attempt to get hold of him.

"So AP not only did not speak to you for this article, but made no attempt to speak to you?," I asked in a follow-up earlier this evening. "Exactly. No Voicemail<.> no record of any incoming," came his reply."

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

[Debi]

105. The stars must be aligned today, Mr. Benchley, I believe we agree

on something.. :wow:

[MrBenchley]

106. By the way, this desperate and dishonest attempt to slander Harry Reid

is a sure sign that there's lots more yet to come in the various Abramoff scandals....

[Debi]

107. Again, we agree.

I hope that Democrats will seek out the truth before knee-jerking into believing GOP lies about our elected officials. Obviously there have been times when Democrats have done wrong, but all the RNC, RSCC and RNCC are trying to do is divide and conquer. Every time they try to smear the truth comes out. We must, at least a little, have faith in our Party.

[MrBenchley]

109. Wonder what else is still out there?

Abramoff (and Ney and Del;ay by proxy) are mixed up in that gangland hit in Florida....I wonder if there's still worse stuff that has yet to be uncovered....

[liberal N proud]

100. If he took money from Slabramoff, then throw him out with all the

repukes.
I don't care, Dem or repuke, if they are dirty, thrown them out, lock them up.

[SidDithers]

101. So?...

Reid collected donations from his constituents before they were represented by Abramoff, and he collected donations from his contituents after they were represented by Abramoff.

Sid

[ClassWarrior]

102. None of the ILLEGAL Abramoff money went to Dems. Not a penny.

The issue isn't the LEGAL donations that Jackoff's victims made to pols in both parties. The issue is the money Jackoff STOLE from those victims, LAUNDERED through fake charities, and FUNNELLED EXCLUSIVELY TO THE GOP.

NGU.

[Debi]

103. Check out this information from Josh Marshall's site

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

<snip>

Then I got hold of Ron Platt, the lobbyist referenced in the passage above, on his cell phone while he was down at a conference in Florida. I asked him whether, to the best of his recollection, Reid had taken any action against the Kennedy bill. "I'm sure he didn't," Platt told me.

According to Platt, the purpose of his contacts was to see what information he could get about the timing and status of the legislation. Reid's position on the minimum wage issue was well known and there would have been no point trying to get his help blocking it. That's what Platt says. "I didn't ask Reid to intervene," said Platt. "I wouldn't have asked him to intervene. I don't think anyone else would have asked. And I'm sure he didn't."

<snip>

Separate post -

<snip>

(Platt, of course, is the former Greenberg-Traurig lobbyist who the AP article alleges was Abramoff's point of contact in trying to persuade Reid to support the position of the Marianas Island sweatshop owners. For the details on this and why talking to Platt might have been relevant, see this earlier post from this afternoon.)

<snip>

"So AP not only did not speak to you for this article, but made no attempt to speak to you?," I asked in a follow-up earlier this evening. "Exactly. No Voicemail<.> no record of any incoming," came his reply.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++

More republican spin garbage...keep digging :puke:

[Botany]

104. Abramoff did not give one dime to Reid.