Ga. Woman Who Married Teenager Gives Birth

[deadparrot]

ATLANTA - A woman accused of molesting a 15-year-old boy she later married gave birth to the couple's child over the weekend, the woman's lawyer said Monday.

Lisa Clark, 37, gave birth to a 7-pound, 9-ounce boy Saturday, Daniel Sammons said.

The baby could be put in state custody unless Clark can arrange the necessary paperwork for a friend to take temporary custody before Clark is discharged from the hospital and returned to jail, where she will be held without bond, Sammons said.

"Right now, she's struggling with the trauma of having the child torn loose from her arms and possibly placed in foster care while she goes back to jail," Sammons said in a telephone interview.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060213/ap_on_re_us/child_groom

[MadMaddie]

1. You know somehow the neocons will justify this behavior...

As long as it is hetero they will justify this sick women. The boy apparantly ran away.

She needs to go to jail for a long time. The baby is going to suffer from this. But you know how it goes the as long as the baby is born that is all they care about!!

Sigh....

[Heddi]

6. There are DU'ers who will justify this

Male teacher + underage girl = hang 'em high

Female teacher + underage boy = "what a lucky chap", etc

Hot Female Teacher + Underage boy = "where were those teachers when I was 15", etc

There is quite a contingency of DU'ers who do not see anything wrong with a boy-child being molested/raped by a female teacher. They consider it some sort of rite of passage, something to be jealous about, something that "every boy fantasizes about". Totally disregard any psychological damage such sexual encounters can do to a boy-child. Say "boys are different than girls," "boys WANT to get laid by their teachers," "girls are different because they can get pregnant," etc. Some seem to feel that it is absolutely impossible for a boy to be traumatized by sexual activity when it is done by a 'hot female teacher'. Many have even said that when they were 13, 14, 15, THEY were 'seduced' (interesting phrasing, btw) by an older relative, babysitter, teacher, or other person in position of authority and announce proudly how worldly and such the expeirence made them and how they're perfectly normal individuals because of it. They then completley dismiss the idea that not every 13, 14, or 15 year old boy-child who is put in the same situation would have feelings or emotions different from them, etc.

Just wait. They'll be here in this thread. Or do a search for past threads involving female teacher v. boy child student and see the mind-numbingly comments made there. Hell, I'd label those comments as pro-pedophile. Sickening. And only furthers the stima for boys that are molested/raped by older men AND women, and only furthers the idea that any boy who would not enjoy such activity or advances is somehow "odd" "Weird" or "abnormal," since according to some Du'ers, any boy-child who does not enjoy and actively seek out sexual relations with "hot female teachers" is either lying or in denial :eyes:

[NashVegas]

9. "Male teacher + underage girl = hang 'em high"

Male teacher + underage girl = boring headline.

That in itself is sexism. No? How often do you think this happens, and how often do we have gargantuan threads about it?

[Heddi]

12. it's sexism in the fact that

cases of male teacher + underage girl have become almost passe`, you know, big deal. They make local news, hardly national, though. A teacher in a nearby town was just convicted of having "inappropriate sexual relations" with numerous girl students over the past 15 years. Didn't even make a blip in the Seattle paper, and was only covered on the news here for one night before other pressing matters took over--I kid you not--pressing matters like a new stop-sign being added to a downtown intersection and county council grappling over whether speed bumps should be put in a local neighborhood.

Hot Female Teacher + Boy Child = big headlines because it's the tittilating scandal. Why would a sexy young thang like her go after a 15 year old?, etc etc

Hot Female Teacher + Boy Child is the male equivalent of missing blonde girl news story. They only report on these things because people are infatuated with sex. It doesn't have (even though it should) the social implications of Man Teacher + girl child. It's presented in a sensationalistic way. No talk of the psychological effects on the boy. No talk of "rape". Just Teacher Sex. It is as if the child involved was just a minor player with a byline at the end.

[NashVegas]

29. I Know, But That's Kind of My Point

Ever since Mary Kay Le T., it has increasingly become talk about rape, at least from prosecutors' points of view.

All this hysteria, no matter which direction it goes (older male/younger female or the opposite) may feel great for us to get up on our soap boxes, but it doesn't do a whole lot for the kids.

There's just so much going on in this. Society assumes nubile young 15-16 year old girls as desirable to men of any age. "Thank heaven for little girls," etc. Aren't so many media portraying 16 year old boys as desirable for women above the age of 15, though, are there?

I would think anyone who's had experience with horny 12-16 year old boys (I'm speaking strictly of those who were in that same age range) has a hard time viewing them as victims in these matters simply because of their enthusiasm. Girls have a hard enough time dealing with the virgin/whore dichotomy. Do we have to dump that one on boys, too, in the name of equality?


No talk of the psychological effects on the boy.

Why don't we let the boy talk for himself before we decide what the effects are? Although most of us would *probably* be correct in assuming he was in no way getting an honest relationship, and in no way ready to be a husband and father, why don't we let the kid speak for himself first?

[superconnected]

26. I often wonder if some guys are mad

because men are usually the child molesters, and they're angry about being persecuted for it.

At least that's what it seems like when they go nuts mad about this stuff.

She's in jail but somehow I doubt the kids F-up for life any more than needing to pay child support. Ops, hit another hot button.

[MountainLaurel]

10. What she said.

Much more eloquent and less obscenity-filled than I could have phrased it.

[Heddi]

16. thank you

I had to delete a few obscenity-laced paragraphs myself :)

[LanternWaste]

14. a bit better than mine

I was about the post pretty much the same thing you wrote, however your summation is quite a bit better than mine would've been.

(Hey-- by the way, I'm a fan of many of your posts and responses for what it's worth...)

[Heddi]

15. aw, thanks :)

:)

[Blue_Tires]

17. i agree with what you're saying

but get ready for the flames!

fwiw, i had a similar situation as you describe when i was VERY young (eight years old with a babysitter)...Contrary to the popular thought of some men, I do NOT have fond memories of it....

[Heddi]

21. Oh you mean you didn't just lurrrve it?

Come on! It has been posted time and time again that any child who is "seduced" (their wording--not mine) by an older person is one lucky dog indeed :eyes:

I, too, was introduced to sex when I was around 12 by my mother's live in boyfriend. It seems he had an affinity for showing young girls AND boys the true nature of the birds-n-bees. I don't have fond memories of it either. Neither does the mentally retarded boy he "seduced" in my mother's bedroom. See, the boy had a crush on me and came by to see me one day. I wasn't at home. Apparently, molestor-boyfriend took it upon himself to be educator to this child and promised him marijuana if he (the boy) did unspeakable things to him. The boy agreed, and the molestor-boyfriend did unspeakable deeds to the boy.

I'm sure HE feels like a lucky ducky! Or maybe because he was molested by a man it was yucky ducky. If my mother's boyfriend had been a HOT FEMALE, DU'ers would be patting him on the back and saying "way to go chap!" or other such nonsense.

And I welcome any flames. I have no tolerance for ANYONE who excuses child molestation. Until the age of consent is changed in the state/country, a 15 year old is still a child when it comes to sexual activity with an adult, as it should be.

It always amazes me how disconnected from reality people are. Yes, as a 35 year old male, i'm sure the thought of sleeping with your hot teacher when you were 15 IS a turn on. But would it have been at 15? Would that not have been an ackward situation? Or would it only have been ackward if she were an ugly dog?

And we wonder why so few boys report molestation and rape? Most likely because of the messages they receive from society: it's okay if your teacher fucks you. It's okay especially if your teacher is hot. If you don't like it you're odd. Other boys would like it and most would WANT IT. What is wrong with you that you didn't want it? That you didn't like it? Are you sure you're straight? All straight boys want to be fucked by their teachers. And if you're scarred by it then you're a wimp. What's there to be scarred over? etc etc etc :eyes:

:grouphug:

[lumberjack_jeff]

31. And yet you miss the obvious main permanent effect of her acts

Totally disregard any psychological damage such sexual encounters can do to a boy-child.

The permanent psychological damage is the fact that he's now a deadbeat dad. When he reaches adulthood he will be obliged to pay for a child he did not have the capacity to consent to.

Her sentence will be long over before he will have fulfilled his obligation.

[rocktivity]

2. OH, CUT THE CRAP!!!

"Right now, she's struggling with the trauma of having the child torn loose from her arms and possibly placed in foster care while she goes back to jail," Sammons said in a telephone interview.

Your client married the kid for ONE REASON ONLY--to AVOID the rape charge! So give us a break and spare us the crocodile tears!! And I hope she gets what Mary Kay LeTourneau SHOULD have--incarceration at least until the boy turns 21.

:grr:
rocknation

[Jack_DeLeon]

5. Why?

A 15 year old boy is hardly a child.

At ages 15,16, and 17 that would be considered a young adult by most people. At 18 you are legally an adult.

[Heddi]

7. Hardly a child...hardly an adult either

Would it be okay if a 15 year old girl was impregnanted by her older male teacher? Or is that somehow different because she's a girl?

I would be warry to assign a 15 year old as a "young adult"---in fact, they're barely teenagers, still children in fact.

Childhood psychological development states that CHILDREN of this age have limited cognitive abilities compared to the abilities they'd have even 2 or 3 years later.

There is a reason why 15 year olds cannot drive in most states. There is a reason why 15 year olds aren't considered "adults"--because they're children.

[Jack_DeLeon]

11. It would be different because...

it would be the minor that got pregnant.

That being said I think our age of consent laws are a bit out of whack. I live in Texas where the age of consent is 17, IMO that is far more reasonable than the 18 that is require in most states. However I still think 15 and 16 would be best. That is about right for most of Europe. In Canada and Mexico the age of consent is 14.

Its a Mexican tradition to have a Quinceanera when a girl turns 15 and that supposidly when she is considered old enough to stat becoming a woman. Amongst white girls the tradition is a Sweet Sixteen party, when she is 16 which serves the same function.

There is a reason why 15 year olds aren't considered "adults"--because they're children.

The reason 15 year olds arent considered adults isnt because they arent, its because the governmetn has passed laws to keep them as children. Back in the day before my time people of those ages were considered adults.

Fuck its gotten so rediculous lately you have news reports and such calling people in thier 20s "kids."

[Heddi]

13. Maybe I didn't clarify the point I wanted to make

Forgetting laws regarding the age of consent, this was a teacher who had inappropriate sexual relations with a student. A student who was, in the eyes of the law at this point in time, a child.

Regardless of whether the student was 15 or 17, what the teacher did was excessively wrong because she took advantage of her position of authority. Who's to say that this boy wanted to have sex with her out of his own free will, or did so out of some fear that his schooling, grades, etc, would be jeopardized if he said no or refused to continue the relationship?

When the teacher is a male, and the student is an underage female, there is not NEAR the amount of apologizing for the act as there is when the teacher is a female and the student is a male. It is not acceptable for teachers to be having sex with their students regarldless of the age of the student OR the teacher, but it seems that DU'er seem to have a difficult time accepting that unwarranted sexual advances can have profound psychological affects regardless of the gender of the victim. If a girl was the student in this instance, there would be calls to hang this teacher by the balls (regardless of whether or not he impregnated his student). There would be no QUESTION as to whether or not the girl wanted to have sex with the teacher. There would be no QUESTION as to the appropriateness of the actions of the teacher. But because it's a boy child and a woman teacher, it's automatically assumed that the boy was hot-n-horny for Ms. Social Studies, wanted it, and teacher's actions were a-okay because any boy in his position would be DYING to bone his teacher.

It's an unfair double standard. Unfair because it assumes every girl is a victim, and every boy "wants it"---which isn't much different from the "she was asking for it" excuse given in Rape. It furthers the stigma of other boys who have been molested or raped by their teachers--male and ESPECIALLY female teachers because we've heard on the news and read on DU (by Du'ers, nonetheless) that any boy who isn't hungry for teacher boinking is lying or in denial. That boys are not psychologically affected by things like this like girls are. That boys are "okay" with early sexual experiementation at the hands (no pun) of older adults in position of authority than girls are, etc etc.

--
The only time I've seen 20 year olds referred to as kids, honestly, isn't in the news, but by DU'ers who consider 20 year olds in the military to be "just kids who didn't know what they were getting into when they vowed to an oath and signed on the dotted lines". Exceptions are when 20 year old republicans do something, at which point they're evil adults. DU'ers sometimes have a habit of labeling those we should be sympathetic to as "kids", but those we should scorn were adults as of the day they were born, or something...

---
edited to remove unintentionally snarky subject line and clarify my earlier point.

[Xithras]

19. Actually, the 18 year old age of consent was a product of early feminism.

125 years ago 15 actually WAS the age when most people were considered "adults". Most girls were married by 17, and many already had multiple children by then. The 18 year old age of consent was an offshoot of the early Womens Equality movement in the U.S. Prior to the establishment of the 18 year rule, the consent ages varried by state but were generally from 15 down to SEVEN(!!!). Early feminists realized that for women to be equal partners in society, they needed to be educated. For them to be educated, they needed to postpone marriage and childbearing until after that education was completed. They pushed for decades, but eventually got the age of consent raised in nearly every state. That 18 year old consent age was extended to boys when it was realized that equal protection laws would be violated if the consent age only applied to one sex.

The age of consent has nothing to do with sexual or mental maturity, and everything to do with ensuring that young women have the right to fully develop as educated citizens before becoming wives or mothers. It ensures that women are educated enough to support themselves if needed, and not depend on a man to do so (possibly trapping them in dangerous relationships). It ensures that they fully understand their own potential before deciding what kind of life they want to live.

I do agree that we as a society have forgotten that teenagers really aren't kids, and many people do consider them to be children. There's a mountain of difference between a 20 year old guy sleeping with a 17 year old girl, and a 20 year old buy sleeping with a 7 year old girl, and yet we tend to blur the distinction and label them all as pedophiles. The reality is that one is a sick pervert who needs to be off the streets, while the other is just an asshole who puts his own pleasure above the rights and needs of the girl. Both should be punished, but there's no way I condone sentencing the guy who slept with the teenager the same as someone who hunts young children.

Back to the OP, this is also why there tends to be a double standard between those who sleep with teenage boys and teenage girls. The 18 year old age of consent was never meant to protect boys, as it's always been well understood that boys weren't the ones being exploited anyway. Some people would claim that a teenage boy who becomes a father is going to be financially destitute, but there's zero difference between getting a 17 or a 27 year old girl pregnant. The financial burden will be the same, and nobody has ever proven that there's any kind of psychological impact from it. Teenage boys are legally protected because teenage girls are protected and we have to be equal about it.

[Jack_DeLeon]

20. Hmm interesting point...

I never thought about that.

[NashVegas]

30. That *Very Interestingly* Coincided with the Advent of Property Rights

As in, coinciding with the legality of women to own and hold property in their own right. Is there a solid, definitive, correlation? No idea, but I've found it to be quite fascinating.

[Jamastiene]

25. If I am not mistaken, the legal age in NC is 16.

I'm mixed on this issue. There are cases where it is really not child molestation, but it's not a good idea to do it anyhow. Like I said, I am mixed on this. At least 16 years of age would be fair enough in some cases, not in others. Me personally, I like older women and had crushes and daydreams about some of my female teachers in high school. Looking back, it would not have been a great idea if any of them had done things with me, per se, at least not until I hit about 17 or 18. So, I guess, I am still mixed. :shrug:

[superconnected]

28. Wow you knew her personally?

I had no idea.

[LiberalinNC]

3. Georgia needs to update their laws...

"Georgia law allows children regardless of age to wed if there is a pregnancy."

She should be charged w/ rape!

[HereSince1628]

4. Will the prosecutor ask for a paternity test? If it fails...then maybe

the charge of rape goes back on. Jest vondering

[rocktivity]

18. It wouldn't matter because they weren't married at the time.

If she's admitted they had an affair, the charge SHOULD be rape anyhow.

:headbang:
rocknation

[saracat]

8. Too bad. She shouldn't be allowed custody of the child anyway.

She is a pedophile in MHO.

[High Plains]

22. To hell with this.

I say lower the age of consent to 13 or 14 to reflect reality.

I say fire teachers who have sex with their students, regardless of the gender specifics.

Calling voluntary sex between a 15-year-old and a 37-year-old "rape" does a disservice to real rape victims.

Calling someone having sex with a 15-year-old a "pedophile" really stretches the definition of the word.

Boy, there is something about teenagers and sex that makes a lot of people absolutely crazy. Raw emotion rules over careful consideration.

[Xithras]

23. Please see my post #19

The 18 year old age of consent is about protecting women rights. While we do tend to get a bit carried away with it, there are very real societal reasons why 37 year old men shouldn't be sleeping with 15 year old girls (or the other way around).

[Nikia]

24. There are adults who enjoy taking advantage of teenagers

Often the adult is someone who the young teen has come to know and trust. The adult may be a family member or someone who they socially consider like a family member or a person in a mentor type position (teacher, coach, youth leader). It is often someone who they trust to help them and be a model for what is right and wrong. The young teen isn't having sex with them for the same reason that adults who are equals have sex. They may later feel guilty about their actions while the adult feels no guilt whatsoever. The teen may feel betrayed and may develop trust issues.
Sometime during one's teens one learns not to put so much trust in adults. I remember reading a study though that sixth grade students tended to be the most obedient as far as doing what the teacher said regardless of what the student normally thought was right. Children in the early stages of puberty are very vunerable to predator adults. Making it legal for adults to hurt children this way is just wrong.

[superconnected]

27. Thanks for a voice of reason in this.

I agree totally.

[NashVegas]

32. I See Your Point, But ...

To lower the age of consent to 13 or 14 isn't going to be helpful to parents who are trying to teach their kids to keep their heads on straight regarding sexual matters. It also won't help teens who are having a hard time with the peer pressure aspect.

If you want to say 16, I'm down with it.

[pmteet]

33. I have mixed feelings Man-girl vs. Woman-boy

Do I think it is different? Yes and no. There is STILL an At-ta Boy attitude. However, I am not convinced that THESE days a 15-16 year old Boy OR girl are being "seduced" unknowingly. We are NOT talking about small kids. At 16 I KNEW what I was doing and that was quite a few years ago. I think people still view girls as victims. Would I be angrier if an older man seduced my 16 girls than I would be if an older women seduced my 16 son? Honestly, I am not sure.
BUT, on the other hand, as a MOM I would want her in jail. He should have been given the chance to grow up before having kids. BUT you cannot convince me he didn't know he should use a condom. This IS 2006. Sex is NOT a hush hush issue anymore.

Michelle