Md. Official Defends Behavior Toward Woman

[cynatnite]

ANNAPOLIS, Md. - William Donald Schaefer, a former governor who is now state comptroller, ogled a young woman at a Statehouse meeting. And he made no apologies about it.

"She's a pretty little girl," the 84-year-old Democrat told reporters. "The day I don't look at pretty women is the day I die."

Schaefer stared intently at the woman — an aide to Gov. Robert Ehrlich — as she walked away after bringing him a beverage Wednesday during a Board of Public Works meeting. Then he summoned her back, as people waiting to testify watched and waited.

The aide, looking puzzled, returned to the table, and Schaefer told her, "Walk again," and watched her as she made the second trip to the exit.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060216/ap_on_re_us/comptroller_comment

[saigon68]

1. HE NEEDS TO RETIRE

At 84----- his organ is only fit to connect his bladder to the outside world.

[LiberalFighter]

3. Definitely should retire...

He went over the line when he called her over again and told her to walk again.

There is a difference between looking and embarrassing the woman.

[cynatnite]

7. he has no respect for women at all

this is one sick individual who should retire gracefully.

[LostinVA]

23. Definitely -- asking her to walk again was humiliating and demeaning

And, doing it in front of those those people just added insult upon insult.

Disgusting.

[wovenpaint]

104. I believe that line is otherwise known as

sexual harrassment. We had training at work to understand the concept of it - and she sure would have a solid case against him.
I hope she files a claim. He needs to go.

[NashVegas]

134. Agreed

If he had kept his mouth shut there wouldn't have been an issue. If he'd asked her nicely, she could have been part of the joke, not the (no pun intended) butt of it.

[pokercat999]

187. Really this was on camera. He is an ass and well past

the time he should have retired. This is a perfect example of how these damn pols of both parties think they are above the law. Again I say one term, at any federal elected post or appointed office, and out FOREVER.

[Tin Man]

46. The guy is 84 - really needs to retire - the brain just don't work so good

...when you get to be 84. Probably developing dementia of some degree - needs to do the public a service and retire.

[LostinVA]

89. No way in hell my 86-year-old grandfather would do this

And he's had several small strokes and is kinda out there now.

[pitohui]

94. after age 85 half the population has alzheimer's

you have to understand that pro-dromal alzheimer's or not-yet-diagnosed alzheimer's, whatever you want to call it, first manifests to others besides the victim (who is concealing his memory lapses) as these bizarre lapses in judgement

you think the person is doing it on purpose, that he's a pig or a jerk or passive-aggressive

but he really has a disease that affects his judgement, first in these small but obnoxious ways

it is v. sad when it happens to someone you know


sure, it doesn't happen to ALL 84 years old but the odds are this is what we're dealing with, when someone in her 80s starts acting uncharacteristically weird or uninhibited, it AIN'T because she just read a poem abt wearing purple, it's a symptom

[LostinVA]

95. But, according to other posters, this isn't abnormal for Willie

He has a history of making sexist, racist, etc. comments.

[pitohui]

97. ok, in that case, the call for resignation is appropriate

i know nothing abt this individual, my point is that when people in that age group start acting weird, it's a symptom

if he's always been a jerk, that's a different matter

[LostinVA]

98. He's just an old jerk!

I've had relatives with dementia, etc., so I do understand what you're saying.

[CityDem]

107. Don't tell that to Sen Byrd

How many people would vote for Sen Byrd if they thought he had pro-dromal alzheimer's or not-yet-diagnosed alzheimer's. Regardless, this old bird needs to retire.

[theHandpuppet]

179. My father, who recently passed away at 86, wouldn't have either

But then my father had MANNERS and enough respect for himself, my mother and other women not to act like a goon.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madrchsod]

4. wonkette has this on her site

http://wonkette.com/
Wonkette, Politics for People with Dirty Mindsn

[savemefromdumbya]

5. past his sell by date

[Name removed]

6. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

8. He's really losing it...

Time to check into a managed care facility, Donald. Really.
You're an embarrassment to yourself, not to mention the State of Maryland.

[LisaL]

9. Sounds like senility setting in. He called her back and made

her to walk again? Good god!

[truthisfreedom]

10. idiot. sexual harrassment plain and simple.

old and mildly insane. time to retire.

[TygrBright]

11. Well, y'know, there's a reason we used to call him...

"Willie Don"

heheheh

Disgusting creep.

snarkily,
Bright

[Mythsaje]

12. So he's an old goat...

Kinda rude in general, sure. But making it out to be automatically disrespectful to women? I think that's going a little far.

Or are you telling me you've never overheard a table full of women watching a good looking man go by? I can honestly say I've heard things out of women that most men I know wouldn't say...well, other than a crude jerk, anyway, or a high school jock.

At 84 the guy's probably just enjoying one of the few pleasure's he's got left.

Am I defending him? Not really. But I also don't see what the fuss is about.

[Misunderestimator]

18. Summoning her back to the table so that he can watch her walk away again?

You don't see why there should be a fuss about that?

[Mythsaje]

21. I think it's generally rude

for a number of reasons... It was certainly disrespectful of HER, and the people waiting for the whole business to start.

But, then again, he's eight-four years old...when people reach that age they've either gained enough wisdom to act in a decent manner, or they become so self-absorbed that personal enjoyment supercedes everything else.

Regardless, it's not a federal case. An old goat acting like an old goat. Now THERE'S a surprise.

[LostinVA]

25. "Acting like an old goat" IS illegal, and CAN be a Federal case

So, if someone is elderly, and is racist, sexist, and homophobic, that's okay? Just because he's old? Even if he's in a position of power?

There is no legal or moral way to defend this, but keep on trying.

[GinaMaria]

69. old is not an excuse for rude n/t

[Mythsaje]

125. Yet somehow it seems to become such all too often...

My prescription--either be rude right back, or blow it off.

[Mythsaje]

115. I've seen women do the same thing to guys...

Of course, let's pretend THAT never happens.

[LostinVA]

131. Of course you've never seen an incident like this

Done by a woman.

[Mythsaje]

144. Not quite so blatant

but not far from it. Guys don't hold a monopoly on this sort of stuff...some women just seem to think they do.

[mondo joe]

151. I promise you, I'll be as opposed to a woman behaving this way as I am

to a man doing it, if I am ever aware of it.

[Mythsaje]

174. Oh, so am I.

I've seen women call particularly good-looking waiters over more often than necessary just to watch him walk away again and again.

It's an educational experience to hear a bunch of romance writers or even lady pagans discussing the merits of kilts on men, believe me.

[American liberal]

159. in a so-called professional working environment.. nope. he was out of line

[LostinVA]

24. Of course it's demeaning and humiliating to women

This is 2006, not 1936. Calling her back and saying that to her was disgusting, demeaning, AND illegal.

And yes, you are defending him by saying that -- tacit approval.

[Mythsaje]

116. And when the shoe's on the other gender?

That's okay, right?

[UncleSepp]

157. No, who said it was?

Or are you just making stuff up?

[American liberal]

160. what's your point, mythsaje? You just trying to stir up controversy?

Or maybe you're a little angry, or PMSy, or on the rag? ANYBODY who conducted themselves in the manner described in the article, male, female, metrosexual, whatever! would be out of line. You just don't command a subordinate to walk to you and away from you again so that you can check out his or her ass! Like it's already been stated, that's called sexual harrassment! It is not acceptable in the workplace. The "old goat" needs to be held accountable for such unprofessional behavior. period.

[Mythsaje]

175. I honestly don't recall saying he didn't...

But it doesn't shock me. Hell, there's no reason to believe Clinton hasn't done similar things...just not in front of an audience. Old goat, born of a way different generation than us, accustomed to power, arrogant in his assumption of privilege. We all know there are a number of legal actions she can take--and, depending on the way everything shakes out, she can win in court against him and possibly get him fired.

Sounds to me that it's past time for him to go.

I occasionally find myself in these kinds of debates...where I've taken an unpopular position and end up having to defend it. It's kind of interesting, actually.

I've said on many occasions throughout this whole debate that I think what he did was wrong and she was within her rights to retaliate in any way she thought fit, including through the law. But, in the end, it's HER decision how she handles whatever she feels about it. Any woman it happens to ends up having to deal with it in whatever way she likes.

He only ended up going this far in the open because he'd been getting away with this sort of behavior most of his life. If he'd been shut down some time earlier--by whatever means--she wouldn't have ever had this experience.

Are people somehow getting the impression that I'm blaming the victim, or think this is okay behavior? If so, I'm really miscommunicating.

What I'm saying is that this is and always has been fairly common behavior, and sometimes it seems as though the law does very little to curtail it. The law is just one tool to handle it, and not necessarily the best one every time.

[American liberal]

176. now you're being a flip-flopper.

Here's your initial response:
Kinda rude in general, sure. But making it out to be automatically disrespectful to women? I think that's going a little far.

Or are you telling me you've never overheard a table full of women watching a good looking man go by? I can honestly say I've heard things out of women that most men I know wouldn't say...well, other than a crude jerk, anyway, or a high school jock.

At 84 the guy's probably just enjoying one of the few pleasure's he's got left.

Am I defending him? Not really. But I also don't see what the fuss is about.
************

"don't see what the fuss is about." Doesn't sound too much as if you think the "old goat" was completely out of line. but now you do?

You're now on my ignore list. No time for your kind of crap.

[Marie26]

61. There's a difference

It's the element of power here. He likes that he has the power to make this aide parade in front of him, and that he can humiliate her in front of a crowd of people, & she can't call him on it. I bet he also likes being 84 years old so people will simply humor him, & he can more easily get away with behavior he's probably done his whole life. Referring to a grown woman as a "sweet little girl" shows a need to demean & patronize her. There's an abuse of power here that takes it beyond simple rudeness, IMO. This man would be an awful person to work for. I bet he does this all the time.

[LostinVA]

63. And I agree with you that's he's probably always been doing this

And thinking it's funny and darn it, just plain cute!

[Marie26]

85. And he'll keep thinking that until

someone stands up to him. That's why there's no reason to "let it go" here.

[stanwyck]

75. Actually, you are defending him

and while I agree that an 84-yr. old man has the right to appreciate female beauty, he doesn't have the right to humiliate her in front of other people by calling her back and asking her to "walk away" again.
That's not her job. And it's dehumanizing and just a little mean spirited.
He needs to act like a gentleman. And he can do that while unobtrusively, and silently, enjoying her beauty. Most men are able to do this all the time.

[Mythsaje]

117. He's a putz...

What? A an old male politician who's a self-absorbed sexist asshole? Stop the presses!

[LostinVA]

127. Yeah, stop the presses, because what he did is illegal

And, unlike most of them, did it in front of a large number of witnesses.

[Mythsaje]

142. I consider it an abuse of authority

and obnoxious as hell. And, yes, I suppose it is illegal-though I happen to think that this is one of those occasions where the law is woefully ineffective in changing behavior. Had she came up with a way to humiliate him right back, he might've thought twice about doing THAT again.

The law? People like him have been running rings around the law for decades.

[Shakespeare]

81. It's not just disrespectful - what he did was humiliating.

Summons her back...."walk again."

What a fucking asshole.

[Mythsaje]

118. It COULD be humiliating...

Then again, she could just spit in his drink the next time he calls her over.

[LostinVA]

128. No, it is humiliating

JUst as someone white can never ever truly understand racism, no matter how empathic they are, neither can a man ever 100% get this. You just can't. Especially since up thread you keep on talking about men being victimized. THere is no institutionalized sexual discrimination nor harassment against men. THAT is the difference. However, if a female elected official did the same thing to a male intern, she too should resign. But when was the last time you heard about that?

It is ALWAYS humiliating, because this kind of behavior allow a hostile environment to foster against all women. Or blacks. Or gays. Or disable. etc. That's why behavior like this is not allowed in the workplace. It effects everyone.

[Mythsaje]

147. I'm not saying it's institutionalized or systemic

but if you think women don't act in a similar fashion at times, you haven't been paying attention. Many men, unfortunately, seem to find it complimentary.

If you really want to stop this sort of behavior, young women need to be taught that they shouldn't encourage it at all. When the good-looking super-jocks at the high school act like that, they need to be shut down immediately, not played up to because they're...well...popular.

Or haven't you noticed how easy it is for the obnoxious to find companionship? It doesn't start to change until women reach their mid-twenties, when they seem to realize how obnoxious it really is. Of course, the guys just start preying on younger women at this point.

You're taking all this personally, which is a mistake. If you can't debate the question with different perspectives, maybe you shouldn't be debating it in the first place. I'm not only putting out my own thoughts on the matter, I'm also running it by my wife...and if I dropped an e-mail to my ex, the mother of my children, she'd more than likely agree as well. Neither are the type to put up with it, and have had their own ways of handling it.

I've said half a dozen times that I think this guy's behavior is out-of-line, but that doesn't change the fact that it's been allowed to continue since he was probably a teenager himself. And NOTHING is going to change it other than him being publically humiliated in return--either by immediate reprisal by the victim, or public legal action...though it would take a lot to even get the ball rolling on the latter...or so I think.

[NashVegas]

135. There's a Huge Difference Between Looking and Ordering Repeat Performances

This isn't just some silly old man, this is a former governor and current state officer directing a state aide to give him pleasure.

Not 'would you please humor a doddering old man and ....' direction, but 'do my bidding,' direction.

He didn't want her to *give* him pleasure, he demanded the use of her for his pleasure. Way over the line.

[Judi Lynn]

13. DU'ers have been aware colorful language has been used here.

Using it to improperly slur the reputation of a pure, transcendant, angelic presence would be wrong. Using it to vent anger at someone so wildly pro-_Bush element of the right-wing like Mary Matelin sounds good to me. Some clowns are truly "bitches" and "whores" as others see them. People of highest honor and disportment don't bring this out in others.

Pointing fingers at DU'ers, and running to look up all the threads on which strong language has been used, is childish, and stupid.
It's time better spent looking for a different message board.

[Skittles]

14. men appreciating a pretty woman is one thing

ogling and referring to them as "little girls" is another matter entirely

[LostinVA]

27. As well as asking them to parade around for their enjoyment

Sick.

[Judi Lynn]

15. Eventually people learn to ignore these people, like the irritating,

idiotic, rude folks who come here to get in the DU'ers' road and bother people. Experience teaches you to eventually know how to not dwell on it, and ignore it.

You can't possibly take everyone to task who is going to irritate you, and make you wild with rage in your future. You have to pick your battles, or you're going to be overwhelmed.

Who hasn't seen a boatload of these fools already? They are idiots. Ignore them.

[Misunderestimator]

19. How do you ignore someone in a position of authority?

[LostinVA]

28. You don't -- and it was done in front of a roomful of other

People in authority. Who will probably remember this every time they see the young woman.

[Misunderestimator]

35. Exactly.

[Mythsaje]

122. And if she'd've "accidently" spilled his drink in his lap

they'd be remembering something else entirely.

I've seen this sort of behavior from members of both sexes, and I don't really like it coming from either, to be honest. But no one with a modicum of self-respect has to tolerate it, job or no job. If you allow yourself to be treated like that without reprisal, you simply encourage them to continue it.

Maybe it's because of the kind of women I hang around, but I can't imagine a single one of them having a problem dealing with this sort of thing. My ex would've probably leaned over the table, covered the mic (or not) and told him that he was too damn old to be thinking with his dick no matter HOW MUCH viagra he'd been taking.

As you can imagine, she didn't get harassed very much.

[Mushroom]

126. Hello

You shouldn't be giving dangerous advice. Your friends have been fortunate so far that somebody hasn't retaliated.

[Mythsaje]

145. Are you serious?

Retaliated HOW?

[Mushroom]

167. it's hard to soar like an eagle...

You know I'm being serious. Pouring a cad's drink into his lap may have worked for Doris Day, but it would have been detrimental to my health had I done it in the bars I sang in. That's what bouncers are for, and even after the bouncers ejected the men (young/old), I still looked over my shoulder.

[Mythsaje]

173. My ex tended bar, alone, in redneck country...

I saw her run roughshod over drunk cowboys, bikers, stoners, and macho jerks. She stood 5' 8" and about a hundred and twenty pounds and never once flinched. This was what, ten years ago? She ruled the place with a firm hand and a sharp tongue.

She did it the same way in suburban settings as well. She always seemed to know how to handle a particular type of person, defuse a tense situation with a quip, or put a guy in his place with a well-targeted insult.

There are certain places and situations where you can't do that, sure. But what's the worse that could have happened to the woman in this particular story? She might've been fired, but, all things being equal, I think most on-lookers would've found it rather amusing. The old goat HAD been asking for it, after all.

If nothing else, it's a dramatic gesture, and we all seem to appreciate dramatic gestures.

[Marie26]

183. Not everybody is the same

And not everyone is as tough or direct, or has the "perfect quip" like the woman you wrote about. But you seem to be saying that if a woman is quiet or non-dramatic, that she deserves to be harrassed because she is somehow encouraging it. This puts absolutely all the responsibiility on women to stop it with "dramatic gestures" rather than on the man to act decently.

[LostinVA]

129. So, the victim "encourages" these people to continue this

If they don't retaliate.

Bullshit.

I'll leave it at that and put you on Ignore, because all of your posts on this thread have either been either saying people are overreacting OR that men are also sexually humiliated like this young woman. CRazy. It's 2006.

[momster]

16. Willie Don

has a history of making off-the-cuff, inane remarks. He's a former Governor whose hi-jinks made legend -- remember his 'girlfriend' remodeling the Mansion, his comments on immigration and foreign languages, not to mention what he called the more rural part of the state?
:eyes: He also makes these pandering commercials with our present Governor. The only thing that makes me change the radio channel faster is "the President spoke today..."

Fortunately somebody else (Franchot) is running for Comptroller this year. At 84, it's really past time for WDS to retire before he loses any more control over a notoriously random set of inhibitions.

[lynne]

17. Get Over It ~

- He's 84 years old. When he was in his "prime", this type of sexist behavior was acceptable and not a thing would have been said. Obviously, it's not acceptable now but I doubt he cares.

Really, what has he got to lose? It's not like he's worried about how this will impact his career. He broke no laws. He's not the first dirty old man and won't be the last. Heck, that's probably what keeps some of them living so long, just waiting to get old enough to get away with such behavior.

Let it go. We should all hope that we live long enough and still have the energy and wits to admire a member of the opposite sex at age 84.

[alarimer]

20. It is sexual harrassment

No one should be subject to it and no one is beyond criticism for it. I don't care how old and decrepit they are. It is disgusting behavior from anyone.

Get over it, my ass.

[lynne]

22. Didn't say he was beyond criticism for it and I'm not defending him -

- I said he has nothing to lose by it and doubt he cares. He was wrong - it was not appropriate. Some might find it disgusting. Other's may find it humorous or merely wishful thinking on the part of an old man.

What one woman would consider sexual harassment another would consider a compliment. That call is subjective and pretty much in the eye of the beholder. I just think it a big waste of time and energy to pursue this given that there are much more important fish to fry other than the inappropriate ramblings of an old man.

[Misunderestimator]

37. A compliment? To be objectified in a work situation in such a way?

Doesn't even matter if some women might be complimented by such harassment. It's the rest of us who suffer for it. And for people who dismiss it as not being harassment. Unbelievable that anyone here would defend it.

[LostinVA]

42. I myself am appalled DUers are defending this deliberately

humiliating action. This wasn't some "old goat" checking out a woman walking by. That would be bad, and also illegal, but I probably would let it slide. But this? Deliberate humiliating, deliberate reduction of a woman to nothing more than a sex object, deliberate demeaning of her in front of a roomful of VIPS... and her boss, and her coworkers.

[smirkymonkey]

57. DU'ers? Hmmmm..... I wonder.

Sounds like typical republican sentiment to me.

[LostinVA]

59. I was thinking that, too

But at least one poster doing it is someone I don't think is a errr..... someone who "posts on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames."

[Mythsaje]

124. I like being the devil's advocate sometimes...

to try to get people to think beyond their knee-jerk reactions.

You mind telling me why guys who act like this who AREN'T shriveled up old basket cases seem to always be surrounded by women while the guys who don't are barely worthy of notice?

[LostinVA]

130. You're not playing devil's advocate, you're baiting

I'm tired of your posts winking at this behavior.

[Mythsaje]

143. You know nothing about me...

stop making assumptions. I'm exactly the kind of guy who has never acted like that in my life because I DO think it's rude and obnoxious. All I've tried to do was point out that it's not all that unusual and it was well within her power to shut him down, had she chosen to do it.

[anitar1]

165. You are so right. I have seen him bait and flame before. n/t

[LostinVA]

171. Thanks -- at first I wasn't sure

[Marie26]

184. Not really

But you're complaining about something different from the thread. The real underlying complaint seems to be that the obnoxious jocks got more dates in high school. This is then extrapolated out to mean that all women must like obnoxious jerks, instead of "nice guys" - so they can stop complaining that this man is a jerk because they'd just be giggling about it if he was cuter. Am I right? But this person's behavior is inexcusable regardless of his age or jock status - it's the misuse of authority & power, and the demeaning of women that is the problem.

[Mythsaje]

119. Then she should have gotten hers back.

There's probably a million ways to do it. If you don't know how, as your local female cocktail waitress or female bartender.

Even the most powerful man in the room turns into a laughing stock with a lapful of soda.

[LostinVA]

133. I do know how -- most women on this board do

That's the point: we have to learn. WE shouldn't have to "retaliate" in the first place. It should never happen.

[Mythsaje]

146. You do realize that this behavior

is encouraged a lot in high school, right? The most obnoxious jerks seem to attract the most female attention. Then, somewhere down the road, women realize that they shouldn't tolerate it, and they learn how to deal with it. They stop paying attention to the guys and they become the 40 y.o. guy who keeps trying to get girls by repeating the behavior that worked when he was younger, totally incapable of realizing that it doesn't work anymore.

With a few exceptions.

My whole point has been why anyone's surprised at this (he's obviously been doing it forever) and why it hasn't been handled a long time before this point.

I've ALWAYS thought this sort of behavior was reprehensible...but, when I was younger, I was in the minority. No one, including most of the girls I went to school with, seemed to think it was out of line at all.

[Marie26]

185. Ah-hah!

:) Obnoxious cheerleaders get more dates, too. High school is tough. It's a bit unfair to blame high school girls for the behavior of 40-year-old men, isn't it? There's that thing called maturity - people grow up & act more responsibly as adults. If some guys are still stuck in a high-school mindset, I would say that's their fault. And all that is a completely different issue than this incident anyway; he wasn't trying to get her attention, only trying to humiliate her. The intended audience wasn't the aide, but the other men on the board who laughed uproariously with him. It's not about someone being a jerk, but about someone who likes to humiliate people to show off their power & authority. The first is maybe forgivable, the second is indefensible.

[American liberal]

163. sorry, you're argument doesn't hold up. The aide is a

SUBORDINATE to the "old goat." If she had pulled something like that (pouring soda on his crotch), she'd probably get FIRED! Where's the justice in that? No, it's all on the old man. He shouldn't be engaging in that kind of behavior in the workplace. He needs to be censured--possibly removed from his position. wrong is wrong--and retaliation doesn't make the problem go away.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

43. I knew you were going to get blasted the second I saw....

...your post.

IMHO, you deserve it. His behavior was totally inappropriate.

[mondo joe]

45. Why is it less okay for a young man than an old man to do this?

Thank you.

[LostinVA]

52. It isn't -- I agree

[wovenpaint]

105. NOT subjective

Its. sexual. harrassment. And it's illegal.

[Mandate My Ass]

26. You "get over it"

You "let it go"

Admiration is one thing. Commanding a woman to walk so that you can get your sexual jollies in a crowded room is blatant harrassment and it was most likely humiliating for that woman and others present. If he doesn't get it or doesn't care, he needs to get a clue or lose the position he abuses to harrass women.

[LostinVA]

32. In 100% agreement -- good post

[Evergreen Emerald]

34. Exactly

I would like to know who was around him and what the response was from his co-horts.

[LostinVA]

30. Come on! So it would okay for him to say "faggot" or "n*gger"?

Of course not. Or not hire someone because they are female or black or gay or hispanic? Societies change, and people have to keep up with the changes publicly -- especially if they are in a position of authority.

No excuse.

If he can't handle the fact that women aren't second-class citizens, and can't publicly control his urges, then he can retire, go home, and hire women to come and prance around in front of him.

There is no defense of this, and I'm appalled people on DU are trying to defend this.

[Freddie Stubbs]

31. He is exposing the state to an expensive sexual harassment lawsuit

[noamnety]

36. I'm not interested in "getting over" being harrassed

He's 84, but I'm not, nor is my daughter. If we accept that, the message we are currently sending to current society is that it's okay in a professional environment to reduce a woman to the shape of her ass. I'm not okay with tolerating that; I'm not okay with telling my daughter she should tolerate that.

[Misunderestimator]

40. Something like this happened to me when I was in college, with a professor

It was a music conservatory, and I was auditioning for him for the leading role in an opera where the lead character is caught bathing in the river nude (offstage). After I sang for him, he leered at me and said that he would have to see me without clothes before he would know if I was right for the part. I was mortified that he would even make a joke like that... especially since he was in his late 70s at the time, and I was 19. That was only the beginning of that type of harassment I experienced in that business until the day I quit ten years ago. I developed a thick skin over the years, and probably shot myself in the foot by NOT accepting that crap later on. But women who accept it, contribute just as much to perpetuating it.

No, it is NOT acceptable.

[raccoon]

41. Well, I just hope when I'm 84 I have the wits--and the POWER--

to ask a young, good-looking man to parade around for my enjoyment.

[mondo joe]

44. You might better hope you have the wits to understand the law and

to get with the times.

[raccoon]

60. Looks like I should've included this

:sarcasm:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

47. So, you see nothing wrong with humiliating a young woman....

...in public?

I don't care what you do in private, but this kind of behavior is appalling, IMHO.

[mondo joe]

49. I wonder if he exhibited "old fashioned" racial attitudes if so many DUers

would be so forgiving - you know, him being 84 and all.

[LostinVA]

53. That's a point I made in a post up thread

They wouldn't. They would be calling for his head. But, let it be about sexual orientation or --e specially -- sexism? Watch some Duers start spinning it like a top. I'm sick of it.

[mondo joe]

54. I can only hope that when I'm 84 years old I have the wits and power to

behave appropriately despite my age.

The idea that some thing his behavior is somehow praiseworthy or an achievement is appalling.

I'd rather be dead at 84 than harassing others and using my age as an excuse.

[LostinVA]

58. Thank you, Mondo

You're a good man.

[pitohui]

96. i hope i have the wits also, but there's a 50 percent chance i won't

at age 85 half the population has some degree of alzheimer's

it is quite unlikely that this old goat has full control of his ability to make good judgments

unpleasant as it is to be the victim of the person slowly losing his ability to control, to remember, and to reason, it's a lot less unpleasant than what is going to happen to the old goat over the slow progress of the next few years

chances are he's ill, i feel bad that i didn't recognize and cut some slack to family members who acted bizarre and ultimately proved to have alzheimer's, too late i learned that the mind is the first to go

and yes the alzheimer's patient can come out w. some pretty hateful horrible stuff, what do you do, it's not them talking, it's the disease

[mondo joe]

111. Maybe he does have Alzheimers. Or maybe he's an asshole.

Either way his actions were inappropriate and illegal.

[pitohui]

153. my point is pretty basic

when you are in yr 80s and likely no longer capable of making judgements as well as you would have liked and you start to do things that are odd or bizarre because you no longer have the same powers of self-control...

will you expect others to be compassionate or will you expect others to be cruel?

if we are cruel to old people losing their powers, when we get older, that's the society we will have created, where we can be sued in civil court for something stupid and lose everything, including the money that will be needed to support us while our disease slowly advances

now some have offered evidence the old goat was always an old goat and i'll accept that argument

but i won't accept that "either way" it's the same thing because it just isn't

the reality is that the human brain deteriorates w. age and you have to make allowances for age and illness or else you turn yourself and your society into a heartless bitch

[LostinVA]

154. I agree, except he has a history of making

racist, sexist and classist statements. So, in this case, I think it's safe to say that he's just a jerk.

[Olney Blue]

137. Exactly. And if this 84-old is in a responsible position of power-

the "age as an excuse" is not even applicable here.

[momster]

72. He does

Take a Google-walk through his recent past. He's said things about AIDS victims, Hispanic workers, etc.

[LostinVA]

78. *gasp* What a surprise -- not!

[raccoon]

62. See my post #39. nt

[NashVegas]

138. I Hope So Too

But he didn't *ask.*

That's the point.

[saigon68]

51. See Reply #1 above

Related to the "outside world"

[Shakespeare]

83. Bullshit.

Calling somebody back and ordering her to "walk again" was NEVER acceptable. He didn't just admire her--he humiliated her.

Hey, what's he got to lose--he just humiliated somebody, that's all. :eyes:

[cedahlia]

93. FUCK "getting over it."

I tried that years ago and it just makes you feel like shit...like you're the one to blame. Fuck that. Women should not "get over it." They should get pissed and do something about it.

And another thing...I highly doubt this is the first time this asshole has "admired" a woman in such a way. He's probably been doing it his whole life...I doubt you just sort of magically transform into a misogynistic prick in elderhood. That kind of attitude towards women is more likely something he has been "getting away with" for decades. :puke:

I have to wonder if you have ever personally felt the pain and humiliation of sexual harrassment? My guess is that you haven't, because if you had, you probably wouldn't be so quick to excuse this disgusting behavior.

[NashVegas]

136. I Seriously Doubt It Would Have Been *That* Tolerable

If he'd been treating women in his office like that when he was in his prime, I don't think it would have been very tolerable for them, at all.

[undergroundpanther]

29. old male

domination culture.where women are accessories and servants for men.

Until more women DEMAND males stop treating them as sex objects,males will have no incentive to become AWARE of their own sexual bullying.

Shafer is a creep like too many males that seek power are.He may have not been challenged by women enough so he thought he could get away with his degrading comments.

If I was that lady at best e would get some stinging words at worst I would have smacked his face off for that shit he said.Because remember this lady was not hired to titillate crusty perverted old men..I don't care who he thinks he is.The workplace is not a place to make women objects.

More men need to be shown their "dick privileges" have hurt women and society in any way that makes being an insensitive lout too "costly" for them to keep on doing it.I for one an glad Shafer is facing scrutiny. All people who abuse power should be SHAMED. I don't care who they are.

[LostinVA]

33. I wished she had slapped him -- seriously

[silvermachine]

66. Sadly, he'd probably say something like....

..."Ooowee! Feisty! I like that!"

[LostinVA]

79. I bet he wouldn't say that if some woman kicked him in the

Testicles.

[anitar1]

161. My first thought exactly! n/t

[riskpeace]

38. He's more interested in checking out Bobby Ehrlich than his aide

Some say Schaefer needs to come out of the closet.
Others are concerned his longtime boyfriend may be jealous.

[raccoon]

39. Such a dirty old man.

""She's a pretty little girl,"

Was she under 18?

But asking her to walk around was just sexual harassment.

No fool like an old fool.

[LisaL]

48. No, she was not under 18. Apparently it's his usual behavior

to address women that work for him as "little girls".

[Judi Lynn]

50. Who doesn't despise people who take them lightly, who don't respect

them? That's basic.

What you WON'T get is someone who will bend to your demands. Life will teach you this one way or the other. To think you can demand their compliance with your wishes, demand they treat you respectfully is delusional. If they're set in their ways, you're going to have an enemy who will upset you far, far more than you anticipated if you are so narcissistic you believe you'll "teach them a lesson."

Of COURSE he's a filthy old piece of crap. Of COURSE you'd like to see him have a heart attack and collapse. I know I have hated some old $$$$s so much for their pure filth I could have died, myself, but I was taught humility by my life's experiences. Anyone who actually takes the compliments of one of these old wrecks is simply hard up and desperate to imagine it's a compliment. It's not a compliment. They are diseased. They don't know they make your skin crawl, and I have a feeling they don't care, either. They'll simply pick on someone else without missing a beat.

As for making a lot of wild noise about it, getting hysterical, trying to throw fits, THAT is simply the raving of an infantile personality of someone who's going to have an interesting future. Your parents won't always be around to protect you. At some point you're going to realize you are FAR more on your own than you could ever have imagined, and you'll start trying to learn how to control your own behavior, rather than trying to control others. Some lessons take forever to learn. There isn't a support group which can help you overcome every tough spot.

[Misunderestimator]

56. Who's being hysterical?

[Mandate My Ass]

64. It's not "humility" to be silent when subjected to harrassment

I choose to stand with my fellow women and demand to be treated with dignity in the workplace than give these assholes a pass because "boys will be boys." Nothing will change without a fight, so I choose to fight the attitude that degrading another human being because their gender is perceived as inferior, is A-OK. It's not. I'd like to think I'm leaving a better world than the one I was born into, if that means I lack humility, so be it.

Wild noise? :eyes:

[Judi Lynn]

65. I love the safe people who insist that women who are assaulted by

a man fight as wildly as they can, and overcome the larger, more powerful guy.

Real life is a lot more painful, and you learn it IN PERSON, not opining about what other people should do to teach others a lesson.

On edit:

I'm not going to quibble about this. I'm not concerned with anyone's "seeing it my way." No matter what you believe, you are surely going to have to find out for yourself whether or not your ideas are sound. It's unlikely you'll get through your life without meeting shocks and blows to your ego, not to mention the final insult when you die.

[Mandate My Ass]

67. I'm not opining what others should do

I'm telling you what I do, each and every time I encounter sexual harrassment. I fight it, IN PERSON.

What does physical strength have to do with this anyway? I've been assaulted and I would never presume to tell a woman what to do in those circumstances. Apples and oranges.

[LostinVA]

68. I don't think MAA was talking about sexual assault

But rather sexual harrassment.

[Marie26]

55. Ewwwww. nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

70. Oh. My. God. Old Democrat checks out young aide - news at 11!

:rant:

The old dude should retire.

But missing from this entire hand-wringing projection session is any mention from the woman that she was in any way embarrassed, offended, hurt or victimized.

Aren't there enough outrages presented by the other party? I know the Republicans are clean, pure and honest enough that it's hard to find anything newsworthy or meaningful to complain about them. I mean, it's not like they've lied to start wars, (they have?) or done anything treasonable (Cheney outed a spy organization?) or spied on people (oh, right, I forgot) or took bribes (right, sorry).

... Well they haven't personally gotten liquored up and shot anyone today.

Our collective sense of proportion and perspective is all fucked up.

Screw "fair and balanced". Learn from our opponents, only when there's not enough republican shit to deal with is the time to start looking for democrat shit.

Given the current events of the society in which we live, I don't think that this rises anywhere near the level of outrage that is manifested here.

Yeah, I'm a guy and yeah, I just don't get it.

[mondo joe]

73. It doesn't matter if she was embarassed, hurt, etc.

Those are all factors that are determined AFTER the act, and even if she wasn't upset many others might be. There is furthermore the problem of environmental harassment, and creating the impression that this is acceptable in this workplace. It creates a very real liability risk for the employer (in this case the state).

I don't know what about the many globally bad things going on means these daily offenses shouldn't trouble anyone.

[lumberjack_jeff]

103. At one time harrassment was fairly well-defined

...as quid-pro-quo harassment; (i.e. you'll get preferential treatment in return for sexual favors) it is now defined as any conduct which makes any involved party uncomfortable.

I appear to be the only person who raises an eyebrow with the idea that comfort is an inalienable right.

and even if she wasn't upset many others might be.

But your post suggests going beyond that. Any conduct that an observer would consider uncomfortable is now harassment - and the state of mind of the "victim" is irrelevant.

I have two basic points:
1) not everything that pisses one off is (or should be) a crime.
2) there are bigger fish to fry - fish who, (while our circular firing squad debates stupid shit like this) are doing menu planning in which we figure prominently.

My feeling: get on the damn bus. Democrats avoid my vitriolic attacks, simply because the forces of evil don't need my help. We lose elections largely because Republicans would never, ever, do this. In their world-view their bastards are preferable to anyone else's heroes. I'm okay with standing on slightly-higher ground; take down their bastards first.

Cheney did exactly the same thing - ogled Edwards' daughter - just after his debate. Do you remember that? On the list of Cheney sins, it ranks about 142nd. I suggest that if it's not a meaningful, important and relevant core element in our efforts to take down the evil empire, then it shouldn't be a meaningful, important and relevant event in our efforts to undermine our own party.

There's an old Jack Handy joke: "If you think a weakness can be turned into a strength, I hate to tell you this, but that's another weakness"

Our weakness for evenhandedness, fairness and uncompromising search for 100% justice - starting with our own - won't ever be a strength.

[mondo joe]

110. You couldn't be more wrong.

This wasn't an ogle -- this was a woman whose superior had her walk back and forth so he could look at her doing it.

That is bullshit, and the idea that you think it is small fish is a very sad revelation about you and where you stand on civil rights. The idea that women should tolerate harassment if a Dem does it makes me want to puke.

Yes, what other employees witness DOES matter - if your actions contribute to a climate in which workers understand it is acceptable to treat some people (women) that way, your are at fault. The fact that this was a state employee makes it even worse, IMO.

Just tell me one thing: by having women sacrifice themselves to harassment at work so we can fry the bigger fish instead, just exactly how will it work? Had we not read this thread, not posted, not thought about it, what exactly different would have happened today?

Would Bush have been impeached because of our freed up time?

[lumberjack_jeff]

121. My civil rights credentials are intact.

a) he wasn't her superior.
b) she needn't tolerate harassment, all she has to say is "stop that" - there are a thousand lawyers who'd love to take her case.
c) several times in this thread, people have said that this 23 year old woman should not be called a girl - and that her daddy should be pissed because she was mistreated. Make up your minds. Is she an adult who can (and should be expected to) speak for herself, or a child to be protected from every perceived injustice?
d) I'm not asking women to sacrifice themselves, on the contrary, I'm asking them to speak for themselves. I don't intend to ride to anyone's rescue uninvited, and particularly not while allowing the Morlocks to pillage at will.

We self-destruct because we hold our guys to a higher standard to their guys, so one of two things always happen:
1) our people are ridiculed as boy scouts or,
2) the repubs are happy to throw us fuel as we self-immolate because we consider our people insufficiently good - only twice as good as the bad guys.

[LostinVA]

132. Mondo is right, you don't know your sexual harassment laws

He could definitely be cited for this, but by his employer and by her in a civil lawsuit.

[lumberjack_jeff]

148. I'm not a lawyer, I'm a partisan democrat.

I know that she could sue. If she was as offended as posters here feel she should have been, then she'll do that.

Particularly in the absence of any claims of harassment by the victim, I think it's stupid (with a capital S) of us to throw stones at comparatively minor issues by Democrats.

[mondo joe]

150. Your argument reminds me of those willing to ok domestic spying because

it's preferable to another 911 attack.

I don't see any reason to ignore civil rights violations from members of ANY party.

[lumberjack_jeff]

169. I detest the argument that spying is okay.

I detest it so much that I'm willing to do what it takes to get those people out of power, including getting on the damn bus.

I work quietly to get the creeps out of my local party. Lawbreakers are subject to legal punishment so there's little need for me to join a chorus.

[LostinVA]

155. But, legally, it's not just about HER

Even if she doesn't wish to complain, this helps foster a hostile environment, and legally employers have to consider this. I've taught sexual harassment and discrimination classes. I know the laws. He broke the law.

And, this si NOT comparatively minor. It is part of the bedrock of civil rights. And, chipping away at this bedrock destroys us all.

[lumberjack_jeff]

170. Fine.

If he broke the law, let the lawyers, the judges, the media and the republicans handle it. We have more pressing issues with fundamentally and almost universally corrupt leaders in the opposition party, who won't see justice without our unified pressure.

[LostinVA]

172. No, we don't -- this is a fundamental issue

Civil rights. Equal rights. It is equally important as everything else going on in this country.

[lumberjack_jeff]

177. Your civil rights are intact - for the time being.

They are not at risk from some octogenarian. They are at risk from the bad guys who run things. Remember them?

[LostinVA]

178. KNock off being patronizing

"Do you remember them"? Whatever. I probably "remember them" better than you.

And, if you really think our rights as women aren't at risk from this 84-year-old man, then you've learned nothing from the last 50 years. Nothing. Because very incident like this, every slight, to every women, black, hispanic, gay, Jew, etc. puts everyone's civil rights at risk.

I;m not arguing with you on this anymore. You're just trying to be provocative, not help the problem. Too bad. Because all of this righteous energy you're showing could be put to good use in ALL areas of concern.

[lumberjack_jeff]

180. I am trying to help the problem. The problem is that Dems don't run things

Dems don't run things because we eat our own.

The legal system will take care of our corrupt. Where the legal system needs help is in taking care of their corrupt.

I plead guilty to being provocative.

[NashVegas]

140. I Think You're Confusing "Supervisor" for "Superior"

a) A former governor is generally considered a social superior to a current governor's aide.

b) She couldn't have just said 'stop that'; in a room full of people, in order for there to not be a scene that would have made everyone uncomfortable, she would have had to say 'stop that' in a specific way to disguise her offense and embarrassment.

c) I don't know what her daddy would have thought, but this being Maryland, I can well imagine what the old prick's momma would have said.

[mondo joe]

149. Holding an asshole legally and ethically responsible for his behavior is

NOT self destruction.

You might have missed it, but this wasn't exactly a national leader who was a smidge less than pure.

This was an old coot nobody who behaved VERY poorly.

The woman in question can speak for herself -- but what does that have to do with our commentary? Everyone can speak for themselves --- so if that implies we shouldn't have opinions as well we might as well shut down DU.

[lumberjack_jeff]

168. There are plenty of people to hold him accountable

Starting with the woman in question, her lawyer and the opposition political party.

Of course we all have - and are entitled to - opinions. Mine is that when we 'voices in the wilderness' complain in isolation about the country's leadership and their manifold character flaws, we have a small impact.

When we add our voices to those of the opposition party and the media to complain about miscreant members of our party. We have a big, albeit negative, impact.

[Marie26]

182. Have to disagree there

"Our weakness for evenhandedness, fairness and uncompromising search for 100% justice - starting with our own - won't ever be a strength."

I can never, ever agree with you there. You seem to be advocating that Democrats should always rally around & justify a politicians' behavior just because they are a Democrat. That we should give up independent thought & simply spout party "talking points" to support our cause. That people should become "DemoBots" just like the "Bushbots". No thanks. That search for justice is the reason I'm a Democrat; and if we abandon that, we've abandoned the basic principles of the party in search of a transient, ultimately empty, victory.

[lumberjack_jeff]

188. I don't like emulating the repubs, but I like losing less.

Their tactics win. It sucks, but it's the truth.

If we can't stomach actively stonewalling justice to protect our malefactors, (as the Repukes will do) I think we can at least not be the ones out front carrying the torches and pitchforks.

Would I support an asshole who champions civil rights, workers rights and conscientious governance? If the alternative is an asshole who doesn't, then yes.

Given the differences between the parties, "a transient, ultimately empty victory" is better for our children and grandchildren than yet another principled loss.

[momster]

74. Don't Get It

As you say, "I'm a guy". What can be said in reply except "Don't be a 'guy'. There's lots of guys. Be a man." (Badly paraphrased from Say Anything.)

Try imagining that *your* daughter came home, upset, because some old fart who is in a position of authority over her (teacher, preacher, boss) made her feel small, worthless, and ashamed of her body, so much so that she doesn't want to go out to work again. That's why we're reading about this story today. Because this young woman told her folks about it and they're the ones taking it to the press. So much for a contention that we've seen no "mention from the woman that she was in any way embarrassed, offended, hurt or victimized." I think that's four for four there.

If you let the small stuff go, it becomes big stuff. I'd love to see WDS leave over this, because it's not the first time he's been inappropriate and it won't be the last. Shall we all wait until he starts groping young women before we show hackle? That may be acceptable behavior for people like the Gov. of California, but not on the D side. It's not funny, it's not charming, it's inexcusable.

I'm a gal -- I do get it!

[LostinVA]

80. What you said, Momster

[yellowcanine]

84. I am a man and I get it too. If it had been MY daughter he would hear

from me, I don't care how old or how senile he is. It is time we stopped excusing the antics of Willie Donald Schaefer as "colorful". I don't want the person handling the money to be "colorful" I just want him/her to be honest and able to count. I also fault Ehrlich on this. He should have had the cojones to rebuke Schaeffer publicly. The woman works for him and he should have defended her against the old coot.

[yellowcanine]

76. If it was your daughter would you "get it" then? His party is irrelevant.

Not that it matters but he is a DINO anyway. Look, the woman (a 24 year old is a woman, not a "little girl" as Scheefer called her - an insult in itself-and if she is a little girl why is he leering at her?) was offended and so was her father. Even if this woman was not offended there were other women in the room who were. This was done in public with approximately 100 people watching. There is no defending William Donald Schaeffer on this and it is irrelevent to bring up the sins of others, regardless of party affiliation. And I don't care if he is 84 years old. That is no defense. If he is senile then he should resign - I don't want him handling the state finances. He is actually running for reelection and if he wins the Democratic nomination (he has a credible opponent) I for one will vote for someone else even if I have to vote for a Republican. It is time for him to retire. He is the one that doesn't "get it". By the way, for the most part it is not Republicans that are critisizing Schaeffer on this - it is Democrats. I am sick of being embarrassed by him. This is by no means the first time. He is a crackpot and has been one for a long time. I am embarrassed that I ever voted for him at all.

[mondo joe]

77. Didn't you know? Women are supposed to submit themselves to

harassment in the workplace because... uh... because we have to fight Republicans on other issues.

:eyes:

[LostinVA]

82. You know, I honestly didn't know if he was a Dem or GOP

Until this post. Know why? IT DOESN'T MATTER.

[bling bling]

86. Elected Dems are our representatives

I can put up with a lot of different types of character flaws, but harrassment is unacceptable and when it comes from a Democrat it's even WORSE in my opinion than if it comes from a Republican.

Women have come a long way over the last century but there's still hurdles to be overcome. I can even overlook some of the inequalities I see on a daily basis. Women STILL earn less. Women STILL have to worker harder to garner respect in the workplace. I accept that, for now. But I'll be damned if I'm going to shrug off as no big deal when an ELECTED MEMBER OF MY GOVERNMENT, AND ESPECIALLY OF MY OWN PARTY, displays the types of dispicable behavior that have impeded the struggle for women to get where we are today.

[Marie26]

87. The article says she was embarrassed

"(Schaefer) then went into the governor's office and returned to say the woman was embarrassed by the incident. When reporters asked him about the incident, he called their interest "dumb." He said "this little girl" ought to be "happy that I observed her going out the door." "The one who is offended is me," he said.

Such a jerk. And even if the article didn't say she was embarrassed, it's a pretty safe bet that she was. Most women don't like being publically ogled & demeaned. This might be a "small story" compared to the big scandals going on today, but DU is big enough to cover all of them. I don't really see how his political party matters; his behavior is what's at issue here.

[LostinVA]

88. And, imo, civil rights isn't a "small story"

[Marie26]

90. Agreed

This is not a story that will make the front pages, but it goes to a much larger & more important issue.

[LostinVA]

91. Yup -- and it shows that even a woman in a "high visibility"

"high status" job isn't immune from this kind of humiliation.

[NashVegas]

139. Yes, There IS Mention in the Article

He then went into the governor's office and returned to say the woman was embarrassed by the incident.

When reporters asked him about the incident, he called their interest "dumb." He said "this little girl" ought to be "happy that I observed her going out the door."

This isn't an old goat, this is a pig.

[Javaman]

71. Wow! what a stupid old lecherous sexual harassing dick head. nt

[noonwitch]

92. If an 84 year old asked me to walk again, I'd probably do it

It's not like he could catch me and make me submit to his demands or anything. It may be sexual harrassment, but I'd probably let it go because of his age.

[NashVegas]

141. Me, Too

But he didn't ask. He ordered it.

If it had been me, I would have put on a show. I'd have raised an eyebrow and said, for everyone in the room, "EXCUSE me, old man?"

[anitar1]

162. People excuse old men because of their age. this old

goat was once a young goat, then a middle aged goat and now an old one.Who knows how many little girls he has fondled? Many ,is my guess.

[Baconfoot]

166. You are submitting to his demands by walking. He already "caught" you. NT

[WhiteTara]

99. retire my a**. He needs to be fired!

Sexual harrassment is a crime.

[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WhiteTara]

113. or recalled! But the intern said

she didn't mind. As though it absolves a crime. BTW,welcome to DU shootmeintheface :hi: great screen name!

[BlueIris]

100. CREEPY.

Jesus.

[Sivafae]

101. I saw the incident on CNN

And when he had asked the lady back, other older men in the group were laughing about it.
Hahahahahaha. That is funny.:sarcasm:
Sounds like humiliation to me.

[Marie26]

102. Schaefer Apologizes to Ehrlich Aide (Update)

"ANNAPOLIS -- Maryland Comptroller William Donald Schaefer (D) sent a letter this afternoon to the woman he asked to "walk again" during a public meeting.

In the letter, the comptroller tells Elizabeth Krum that he never intended to intentionally embarrass her and he's sorry she was "put through this ordeal." Schaefer also says Krum has been a "trouper" about what's happened."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/17/AR2006021701349.html

Well, at least he apologized (however reluctantly).

[BrightKnight]

106. A senile old man that should be forced to retire

His behavior was inexcusable.

I am prepared to accept that his judgment was somewhat impaired by his age. He looked a bit lost. He has no business serving in public office.

[derby378]

108. You mean he didn't check her teeth?

I would've thought that was next...

[anitar1]

164. He wasn't interested in her teeth. n/t

[twenty4blackbirds]

109. 'treating a person as an object'.

How demeaning to be on the receiving end. :grr:

[Judi Lynn]

114. Here's a list posted by DU'er Wookie294 last year which deserves a look

* Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth is a convicted child rapist in Florida.

* Republican County Commissioner David Swartz pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison.

* Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation.

* Republican anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor.

* Republican legislator Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10 years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages of 9 and 17.

* Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls.

* Republican campaign consultant Tom Shortridge was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl.

* Republican racist pedophile and United States Senator Strom Thurmond had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child.

* Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile.

* Republican legislator Peter Dibble pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl.

* Republican advertising consultant Carey Lee Cramer was charged with molesting his 9-year old step-daughter after including her in an anti-Gore television commercial.

* Republican activist Lawrence E. King, Jr. organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.

* Republican lobbyist Craig J. Spence organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.

* Republican Congressman Donald "Buz" Lukens was found guilty of having sex with a female minor and sentenced to one month in jail.

* Republican fundraiser Richard A. Delgaudio was found guilty of child porn charges and paying two teenage girls to pose for sexual photos.

* Republican activist Mark A. Grethen convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children.

* Republican activist Randal David Ankeney pleaded guilty to attempted sexual assault on a child.

* Republican Congressman Dan Crane had sex with a female minor working as a congressional page.

* Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader Beverly Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter.

* Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar.

* Republican Committee Chairman Jeffrey Patti was arrested for distributing a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped.

* Republican activist Marty Glickman (a.k.a. "Republican Marty"), was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of unlawful sexual activity with an underage girl and one count of delivering the drug LSD.

* Republican legislative aide Howard L. Brooks was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography.

* Republican Senate candidate John Hathaway was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media.

* Republican preacher Stephen White, who demanded a return to traditional values, was sentenced to jail after offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him.

* Republican talk show host Jon Matthews pleaded guilty to exposing his genitals to an 11 year old girl.

* Republican anti-gay activist Earl "Butch" Kimmerling was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her.

* Republican Party leader Paul Ingram pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison.

* Republican election board official Kevin Coan was sentenced to two years probation for soliciting sex over the internet from a 14-year old girl.

* Republican politician Andrew Buhr was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy.

* Republican politician Keith Westmoreland was arrested on seven felony counts of lewd and lascivious exhibition to girls under the age of 16 (i.e. exposing himself to children).

* Republican anti-abortion activist John Allen Burt was found guilty of molesting a 15-year old girl.

* Republican County Councilman Keola Childs pleaded guilty to molesting a male child.

* Republican activist John Butler was charged with criminal sexual assault on a teenage girl.

* Republican candidate Richard Gardner admitted to molesting his two daughters.

* Republican Councilman and former Marine Jack W. Gardner was convicted of molesting a 13-year old girl.

* Republican County Commissioner Merrill Robert Barter pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy.

* Republican City Councilman Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr. pleaded no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months in prison.

* Republican activist Parker J. Bena pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography on his home computer and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000.

* Republican parole board officer and former Colorado state representative, Larry Jack Schwarz, was fired after child pornography was found in his possession.

* Republican strategist and Citadel Military College graduate Robin Vanderwall was convicted in Virginia on five counts of soliciting sex from boys and girls over the internet.

* Republican city councilman Mark Harris, who is described as a "good military man" and "church goer," was convicted of repeatedly having sex with an 11-year-old girl and sentenced to 12 years in prison.

* Republican businessman Jon Grunseth withdrew his candidacy for Minnesota governor after allegations surfaced that he went swimming in the nude with four underage girls, including his daughter.

* Republican director of the "Young Republican Federation" Nicholas Elizondo molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison.

* Republican president of the New York City Housing Development Corp. Russell Harding pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer.

* Republican benefactor of conservative Christian groups, Richard A. Dasen Sr., was found guilty of raping a 15-year old girl. Dasen, 62, who is married with grown children and several grandchildren, has allegedly told police that over the past decade he paid more than $1 million to have sex with a large number of young women.

* Republican Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld authorized the rape of children in Iraqi prisons in order to gain information from their parents who were thought to be "insurgents." See excerpt of one prisoner's report here and his full report here.
(snip/)

http://www.armchairsubversive.com/
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1662021#1662388

[lumberjack_jeff]

123. Thanks for bringing some perspective n/t

[mondo joe]

152. If yr point is that there are worse things so we should ignore harassment

in this case, I'll have to disagree.

"Someone else did something worse" is not a defense.

[LostinVA]

156. Agreed.

[The Traveler]

120. Hey, I'm gonna look

I always do. And I'll compliment her on her looks. But they power play ... that's creepy. It is one thing to appreciate the beauty of youth, another to seek to control it.

[American liberal]

158. SEE ya'! Wouldn't wanna BE ya'!

[usregimechange]

181. Yes!

[Witchy_Dem]

186. It's gotta chap Erlich's ass that Schaffer is still around.

I'd be happy to see Old Don take the heat for his inappropriate behavior but I love the look on Erlich's face when Donnie boy did that. It was priceless.