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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 07:16 AM
Original message
Former President Clinton calls cartoons a mistake
FORMER US president Bill Clinton said today that printing cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed was a mistake but that violent protests by Muslims have wasted a chance to build bridges with the West. Mr Clinton was speaking in Pakistan - the scene of some of the worst rallies against the drawings - where he was visiting survivors of last year's South Asian earthquake and launching an HIV/AIDS project.

"I strongly disagree with the creation and publication of cartoons that are considered blasphemous by the Muslims around the world. I thought it was a mistake," he said. "I had no objections to Muslims who were demonstrating in a peaceful way their convictions. "I thought it (the cartoons issue) was also a great opportunity which I fear has been squandered to build bridges," he said, referring to violence across the Muslim world which has claimed 18 lives, including five in Pakistan.

Mr Clinton, who arrived in Pakistan early today for a day-long trip, held talks with Pakistan Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz and is due to meet President Pervez Musharraf. He signed an agreement under which the Clinton Foundation will help Pakistan with HIV/AIDS treatment, care and prevention. Mr Clinton was also due to visit a relief camp in Islamabad for victims of the October 8 earthquake, becoming the second former US president to do so after George Bush senior met survivors of the disaster here in January.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,18183806%255E1702,00.html
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 07:23 AM
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. The bottom one has a certain Jack Chic-esque quality
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. guess It didn't pass muster
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. Good old Bill
I agree with that statement. Maybe HE can spread some peace.
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adriennui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. t was under the impression that bill
believed in freedom of the press.
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I'm sure he does
Newspapers refuse to print things that editors deem offensive all the time. That doesn't amount to government censorship, just an editorial judgement on what amounts to good taste or not. I think that is the point Bill was making.

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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Well here is the thing that I've found, many people have trouble
Edited on Fri Feb-17-06 10:07 AM by OhioBlues
with. It's called "class". Why print something that will hurt so many others. I know that we aren't offened by it but to them it's an outrage, so why screw with them. Read the front page about the neo con's hands being in this mess as well. Also, what noonwitch said.:hi:
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neoblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. Yes, it ended up just reinforcing the stereotype...
of Muslims being half-mad, violent, uncivilized and without rational impulse control; just the things one would think would promote the creation of "terrorists".

We just aren't privy to the life experiences that those people face under their oppressive regimes, so it's hard to relate. Furthermore, I would hazard to say that for most Americans, any cursory review of their religion (Islam) simply leaves us thinking it's bizarre and extremist--and given that we hardly hear of Muslims but that it's related to some sort of unrest, problems or even terrorism, it all seems to "fit". So, if you don't bother to think deeper and consider the hundreds of millions of other peaceful, probably reasonable people who call themselves Muslims, it's all too easy to simply write them all off with the stereotype. Of course we all recognize that stereotypes don't apply very strongly when we're considering individuals... but that's not enough for us to "get along" with this large, relatively unknown/misunderstood group of people.

As for the strangeness of their religion (with the disclaimer that it's recognized that any "strangeness" largely represents simple ignorance and lack of familiarity on the part of the beholder, as well as the simple fact that it really is considerably different from anything we've experienced in our world), the reasons it's "strange" is that it is very different and even "alien" when considered under the social and cultural norms of ours and most "Western" nations. We find it hard to consider it 'normal' for people to be so devoted to their religion that they absolutely must stop and pray many times each day, and even that in their prayers they show submission/devotion by pressing their foreheads to the ground, the forehead being a particularly holy part of their being... There is also a large and seemingly vast quantity of religious teachings, rules, rituals and so forth--so much that it begins to make sense that their "religious leaders" tend to have to be "scholars" of their religion--to a far, far greater degree than in Christianity--which seems, by comparison, to have a much more compact (though not necessarily more rational) body of beliefs, rules, rituals etc. Also, many of the Muslim rules and rituals make about as much sense to us as saying that to obtain a blessing from G_d, you must dress in a pink robe, stand on one foot while barefoot after washing your feet with beer, and do so facing Northeast under a full moon on the third week of the month in an odd-numbered year, while wiping your left earlobe with spit, obtained by sucking on a crystal of amethyst blessed by seven nuns, and then only using the spit obtained the seventh time you spit, all while muttering the phrase "We are the Knights who say Kneeee" 70 times under your breath and then hopping up and down twenty times and standing on your head holding small pebbles between the third and fourt toes, from the left, with both feet. If you mess up even one word, you must start over. You must start by 9pm in the timezone of Bagdad, and finish by 17 minutes before 11pm. If you pass gas... you must say 7,700 "Hail Ali-baba's" and repeat this whole ritual every day for a month in addition to all the other rituals. And this would be to have the blessing of good digestion, but if you don't do this, you'll offend your G_d, and suffer great punishment. It would also be one of the simpler, briefer and less important ones--but critically important even so. Anyway, the point is, to a modern, western mind, this all seems pretty strange and it's but the tip of the iceberg. It's also the case that one imagines that anyone who'd follow such a detailed, strange collection of stuff must really be pretty much of an extremist... Obviously, given that there's thousands of bits and things and every person varies in their dedication to the religion--just like with Christianity--, most people don't do most of the things called for and each group emphasizes different ones... It's just that to our eyes, having not been educated and trained and entrained from a young age... it's a bit much. Heck, if I "had to" follow such a lifestyle in order to be a part of society, it might be enough to drive even me to want to wear high explosives--just to escape having to do this and get to heaven where I collect my just deserts and live in great comfort and have everything I could want including all the sex of whatever flavor I could possibly want, and then some. Fortunately, I don't have to and don't subscribe to those or any other such superstitions.

So there we have it. A bunch of delusional, believers in an extremely demanding religion who live under terrible governments under awful conditions, and who appear by the reports, to have a tendency towards violence and intolerance (much like our very own Rethugs)... Whether that reflects reality or not... probably not, but remember--reality, according to the Rethugs in Charge, is overrated (and not something they and therefore our whole nation to some extent, bother with).
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Fundamentalists are fundamentalists all over, closeminded are closeminded
Just because you belong to a religion (pick any) that espouses peace, tolerance, figuring out how to get along with others in a positive manner does not mean that the fundamentalists that belong to this religion believe in these also. Unfortunately, there are close minded people, scared, power hungry, angry, intolerant, whatever, all over this world. And unfortunately they tend to band together and raise trouble.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. Christian FundaMENTALists Meet Muslim FundaMENTALists
same crazy fanatics.
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toopers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
11. I guess I will sympathize with the cartoon protesters . . .
when they start protesting the murder of school children by people who claim to be muslim.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
12. Printing - or rather REprinting - the cartoon was NOT a mistake.
It was calculated to bring about the exact kind of reaction that has occurred in the Muslim world, and further push people into the influence of radical clerics - and make Muslims even less sympathetic and make the West provide even less support to moderate Islamic voices.

And it has succeeded.
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toopers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
13. And now, the peaceful leaders of the muslims . . .
have decided that there should be a contract killing! What a wonderful, peaceful religion!

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PROPHET_DRAWINGS?SITE=NDBIS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-17-06 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Thousands of Hong Kong Muslims also marched Friday
Thousands of Hong Kong Muslims also marched Friday to condemn the caricatures

They can view their work here


http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/arab/cartoon_arab_press_080702.asp
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