Venezuelan Opposition Case Thrown Out of International Criminal Court

[1932]

Caracas, Venezuela, February 17, 2006—The International Criminal Court (ICC) rejected an appeal by Venezuelan opposition groups to prosecute the Venezuelan government for human rights violations. Chief Prosecutor for the ICC, Luis Moreno-Ocampo, said the charges had a, “lack of precision as well as internal and external inconsistencies in the information.”

...

Charges were first brought to the court in 2003 by Venezuelan lawyers representing Venezuelans associated with the opposition. The lawyers argued that they had suffered crimes against humanity at the hands of the Venezuelan government.

Most of the crimes they say they suffered were during the April 2002 coup, when Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez and his government were briefly removed from power before being restored days later by the military and popular protests.

On February 9, the ICC issued a statement saying the court was unable to move forward with a formal investigation. This was because the information provided did not match the allegations.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1900

I've seen some people here cite the fact that this case was filed as evidence of Chavez's guilt. So I thought it might be useful for people to know that these charges were tossed.

[killbotfactory]

1. Wow, who woulda thought?

:eyes:

[Bacchus39]

2. an act of desperation

the Venezuelan opposition is in disarray. why embarrass yourself like this bringing a case before the ICC? I don't believe the ICC should have jurisdiction over sovereign states anyway.

[1932]

3. Venezuela signed a treaty submitting to the jurisdiction of the ICC in 02

In the US, treaties are given equal weight to the constitution. That's what the constitution says. It's been that way since the beginning. Do you really have a problem with that?

Venezuela is happy to be subject to the court because how else would you have an appropriate body adress the merits of war crime charges?

If the right wing ever takes over the goverment again, Venezuelans will be very happy to have signed on to the ICC.

[Bacchus39]

6. why I have problem with these treaties

and why the US is reluctant to sign them.

because as you say, the treaties have the force of law. they MUST be adhered to. our legal system requires it. when Nicaragua or Haiti signs an international treaty the treaty is easily ignored. It is not so easily ignored in the US because of the power and respect given to our legal system. it is not the same everywhere else.

however, I repeat, I am not a fan of unelected "world" bodies deciding on issues regarding sovereign nations.

[1932]

16. Huh? That doesn't make sense. The US is always signing international

treaties. Conservative governments sign treaties that help corporations. Sometimes democrats sign treaties that are good for people (like the treaty Carter signed that gave back the canal to Panama).

However, regardless of who signs them, when they are signed they're given the same weight as the constitution.

Someday the US will sign the ICC. And that will be a good thing.

[Bacchus39]

25. yes but you don't sign them just because its popular

lets take Kyoto for example. the treaty requires industrial nations to reduce emissions but EXEMPTS developing nations. So China and India can pollute the environment to their hearts content but the industrial nations must reduce. Now if the goal is reduction of emissions and overall benefit to the enviroment does that make sense whatsoever? you are still polluting the environment at the same rate.

a better example is the Rio environmental accord. I think it was Rio. All these nations sign a treaty but do you really believe Haiti and Senegal are going to live up to the treaty obligations. The US would have to. not to say that the US shouldn't sign treaties, but there is much more consequence for the US. the US cannot easily ignore treaty obligations as other nations.

and you stated it yourself, that treaties are given the weight of law. that usually means something in the US.

[Ben Ceremos]

28. Sure.

Read Kyoto Accord and you will discover that the USA is the single largest producer of greenhouse gasses. Developing nations have dirty air, sure, but they don't have the means to reduce emissions easily. Use-less A does.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

31. You seem to agree a lot with this bush misadministration. Interesting. n/t

[1932]

34. And the logic behind supporting the bush administration is always so

bizarre.

Kyoto is bad because the US respects the rule of law? Huh????

[1932]

40. Rereading your subject line -- so you don't like democracy???

[anotherdrew]

63. it exempts them because we've had a 100 year head start, it's called FAIR

They are exempt from that one aspect of kyoto, in a sane world there would be later measures that they will not be exempt from. Giving them an extra decade or two at most to catch up with "the west" is only fair.

[DoYouEverWonder]

42. You've got to start somewhere

and someone has to lead the way. If we don't abide by the rule of law, why should anyone else?

[anotherdrew]

62. right - sure - we honor all our treaties... are you joking?

We unilaterally abrogate, do whatever we want all the time, and dare our treaty partners to do anything about it. Bush's first impeachable act as far as I'm concerned was his executive abrogation of the anti-ballistic missile treaty. If we're going to stop following a treaty it should take an act of congress and the president. but of course, since rethuglicans have all power, we can expect that bush will never be held accountable for any of his crimes.

[bvar22]

20. If the Right Wing ever retakes power in Venezuela, they will

simply unsign the treaty.
Just like our Right Wing unsigns treaties they don't like.

[1932]

4. Speaking of desperation: Venezuela's other rights abuse -- speech

The gov't is levying the first fines for violations of the Law Social Responsibility in broadcasting.

So, all that complaining about the law from the right wing -- are they flipping out over its enforcement?

The government is fining stations for not supplying the tapes they need to calculate the Canadian/British/French etc-style national content laws, and they're fining stations for broadcasting content encouraging gambling during hours when children may be watching, and in one case violations of rules for the airing of sexual content.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1898

[Bacchus39]

5. oh yeah, the stations are being fined for not playing the right type of

music. or more specifically because the stations aren't providing the government with the tapes so the government can ensure that the government mandated music content is being complied with.

oh, yeah. government telling the stations what they have to play. Oh yeah, I support that law. hahahaa

did you even read the article? is this the type of government intrusion you support?

[Minstrel Boy]

7. Canada has similar legislation

to enforce a certain percentage of Canadian content on the airwaves. Many nations follow suit.

You may still disagree with it, but it's certainly not unique to Venezuela or indicative of tyranny.

[Bacchus39]

8. I will continue to disagree with it

I don't need the government to tell me what type of music I NEED to listen to nor that certain news content is too graphic for my innocent little blue eyes.

[1932]

13. Just as you disagree with the centuries-old democratic notion of treaties

I suppose we can assume that you're ok with porn and gambling before the watershed?

[Bacchus39]

17. depends what the government considers porn and gambling

I do not know what is considered graphic in Venezuela. I would like to see some examples. I have heard that the media law prohibits showing dead bodies during certain hours.

I am wary of what the government considers graphic in this intance.

I also heard that some governments even consider newspaper cartoons graphic.

[1932]

18. You have some strongly held opinions based on hearsay.

Or, I should say, you sure are tireless in your criticism which is interesting considering you seem to base that criticism on second-hand information.

[Bacchus39]

22. certainly you saw the satire in my post

in reference to the newspaper cartoons.

to restate my point in other terms, I am certainly capable of handling war coverage at lunch time.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

32. I'd say 2 people being filmed while doing it on top of a black jack table.

Oh wait, that was last night's movie.

[ConcernedCanuk]

15. ICC has nothing to do with what is too graphic for those eyes of yours

.
.
.

ICC = International CRIMINAL Court

so that the International community can monitor/prosecute Countries that don't control themselves in an acceptable manner

Like the US invading Iraq on a whim, or more accurately - out of vengance . .

The US ignored the UN in it's preperataion to invade and occupy Iraq

The US ignored WTO decisions regarding trade tarrifs

The US ignores whatever it wants to,

and the ICC (which many countries allow to judge theier actions) is also ignored by the US

What comes around goes around they say

And soon, the World will be ignoring the US

"SuperPower" my ass . .

Just another backyard bully cuz it's got more guns than everyone else

There are other ways to fight a bully -

Look what the Japanese have done to the USA auto industry -

Beat them to shit with QUALITY!!

And how much of the USA debt is owed to CHINA??

USA "Nomba Wan" my butt . . . .

[Bacchus39]

19. yeah, I think I got two different conversations going

I am worried for example that Paraguay would sue the US for the Vietnam war. that it is used as a political instrument rather than an actual court of justice. do you see?

that was certainly the case with this in Venezuela.

yes, I know the US is not a signatory to the ICC. and rightly so. Our legal and political system is stable enough to operate without it. Not perfect of course, but quite effective comparitively.

also, while I am VERY disgusted with this warm, I would point out that the UN did in fact pass a resolution that authorized necessary means to enforce Iraq's compliance with their obligations after the first gulf war. this was just a few months prior to conflict. the second resolution "authorizing" the war was the one that Bushy and Blair couldn't get.

but the UN is not exactly guiltless in this venture either.

[Ben Ceremos]

29. Then why hasn't bush been indicted?

Guilty or not, your laws should be working to investigate and try these shits. I fail to see any such reality. American laws are for the poor. You are a nation of men, not laws, from what I can see.

[Solon]

33. They don't, they regulate PUBLIC airwaves...

Public airwaves are considered the property of ALL the people and regulated by the GOVERNMENT. Does the government of Venezuela regulate what is in record stores there? No they do not, they don't care if you buy a Britany Spears CD and listen to it for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, what they do care about is if radio stations that are LICENSED to use the airwaves end up doing the same. They say that the radio stations can't, as is within their power.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

36. You know, I might be in favor of a worldwide crackdown on Brittney Spears

CDs. It would do a lot of good.

[Solon]

38. LOL, so would I...

Celine Dion too. :)

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

39. Let's take our case to the ICC. n/t

[Solon]

41. So, would listening to those two be considered cruel and unusual...

punishment? What other charges can we level against them, I guess we would file a complaint against the US for harboring those torturers known as the RIAA. :)

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

44. It's clearly a violation of the Geneva Conventions. They should be

sentenced to 20 years in Kim Jong Il's karaoke wing in the presidential palace. I hear he's quite a movie and pop culture buff. Oh and throw in there a few others like that chick that Sings Holla' Back Girl or whatever that hideous monstrosity is called. After watching the Grammies. I've been scarred for life.

[Solon]

46. Oh Gods no, now have that damned song stuck in my head...

bad Guy, BAD!!!!!

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

47. I listen to The Stephanie Miller Show in the mornings

on Boston progressive. I had never heard that damn song. I had actually been spared until recently when they decided to add that jewel to the lineup. They also have that one about My Hump my hump....oh shit sorry I am not doing this on purpose. :evilgrin:

[Solon]

48. OK, now that is just evil, hold on, I'm putting on some Public Enemy to...

try to wipe away your "suggestions".

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

49. Which Christina Aguilera song is your favorite? No amount of

KRS-One or Chuck D will help you now. Bwwwahhahaaa....

[Solon]

50. I'm impervious! Son of a Bush by Public Enemy...

from the Revolverlution album.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

51. Did you get their latest one? It was produced by Paris.

I get the feeling I've strayed a bit from the original topic.

[Solon]

52. Who cares if we are offtopic? Apparently Mister B lost the debate...

as evidenced by his strange silence. Also, do you know the name of the one that was produced by Paris, I would like to know. Right now I'm playing Bush Killa, from my MP3 collection.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

53. It's called "Rebirth of a Nation". I downloaded the whole thing.

I know that Mista' Chuck doesn't mind. IMHO it's much better thatn their latest albums.

[Solon]

56. Cool, I'll check it out.

Yeah, the songs I got were downloaded too, but the artists themselves distributed them, from an anti-war site I believe, I gotta remember which one though.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

55. .

[Solon]

57. thanks man! n/t

[anotherdrew]

65. you don't have to listen to the radio at all

public radio can be regulated. IF this were america and we were under assault from say, french culture, I think you'd like to have a law making radio play at least 25% american bands.

[stillcool]

9. I don't have any dog in this race.....

so I can afford to be non-judgemental....but it does seem as though you read the words differently. Do you live in Venezuela....or do you just like to bash leftist-leaning governments?

Proponents of the law say that it has set up Federal Communications Commission style regulations, which, under the Law of Decency in Telecommunications and the Law of Child TV prohibit broadcasting of obscene material, limit broadcasting of indecent material and mandate educational and information programs in the United States.


At issue with most of the stations, is the section of the law which requires at least 50 percent Venezuelan music content, of which half must be traditional. The law has resulted in an increase in the popularity of Venezuelan music. "We've always had traditional Venezuelan records in stock, but before a few months ago we never sold any -- not one," Miguel Angel Guada, manager of the Disco Center Superstore in one of the capital's largest malls told the Washington Post last July. "It was all Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys and that sort of thing. But now I'd say one-third of our business comes from Venezuelan artists, which is absolutely incredible."

[Bacchus39]

11. I found this particularly egregious

"A spokesperson for Conatel told a press conference that most of the violations involved radio stations’ failure to submit broadcast tapes to the agency, which is mandated by the Law of Social Responsibility, to allow the government to verify that the stations are playing the required amount of national music"

and this is rather odd:

"limit broadcasting of indecent material and mandate educational and information programs in the United States."

in the United States??? what does that mean??

I don't particularly like Chavez or Castro but am not against left leading presidents per se. Chile seems to be doing quite well. Evo Morales I find fascinating since he and the Bolivian people are sticking it to the USAs failed drug policy. rubbing it our face. I like that a little bit. I'll wait awhile and see how he turn out. I really don't hold many politicians in high regard.

Uribe in Colombia seems to be bringing some hope to his country. He gets lambasted here because is a friend of the US> heck, I want more allies in latin america not less. Colombia will be a US ally in 08 with a Democratic president. Will Venezuela under Chavez??

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

30. Nobody is entitled to have allies they have to be earned.

This is something that these right wing assholes don't seem to get.

[Solon]

35. So now you show your true colors...

I was waiting for this day, you don't give a shit about rights of people or even democracy, you only care that Venezuela has a Pro-US government, even if it means dictatorship.

http://www.colombiajournal.org/colombia185.htm

[Judi Lynn]

43. Your article really should be noted! It mentions, importantly, the fact

Colombian right-wing paramilitaries very visably intimidate Colombian voters, and worse, which would, of course, ensure more pro-Uribe votes than he would normally get without the paramilitaries! He has death squads at his command.

Security forces and paramilitary groups enjoyed immunity from prosecution under Governor Uribe, and they used this immunity to launch a campaign of terror in Antioquia. Thousands of people were murdered, “disappeared,” detained and driven out of the region. In the town of San Jose de Apartadó for example, three of the Convivir leaders were well-known paramilitaries and had been trained by the Colombian Army’s 17th Brigade. In 1998, representatives of more than 200 Convivir associations announced that they would unite with the paramilitary organization, the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC), under its murderous leader Carlos Castaño.

When Uribe launched his campaign for president, the candidate’s paramilitary connections appeared to deter many journalists from examining the ties between drug gangs and the Uribe family. An exception was Noticias Uno, a current affairs program on the TV station Canal Uno. In April 2002, the program ran a series on alleged links between Uribe and the Medellín drug cartel. After the reports aired, unidentified men began calling the news station, threatening to kill the show’s producer Ignacio Gómez, director Daniel Coronell, and Coronell’s 3-year-old daughter, who was flown out of the country soon thereafter. Gómez was also forced to flee Colombia and is currently living in exile.
(snip)

As the Presidential race intensified, journalists became increasingly concerned that media bosses were threatening their editorial independence. Two powerful business groups with ties to the political establishment own RCN and Caracol, the biggest television and radio networks in Colombia. Journalists’ concerns were further heightened when Uribe picked a member of the Santos family, which owns the country’s most influential daily newspaper, to be his vice-president.

Despite his links to paramilitaries and drug cartels, Uribe won the presidency. But to call Uribe’s victory a landslide—as many in and outside Colombia did—is a gross distortion of the facts. Uribe received 53 percent of the official vote, but only 25 percent of the electorate voted. Many urban and middle class Colombians, who have been largely sheltered from the civil war, were thoroughly disillusioned by the peace process of outgoing-President Andrés Pastrana, and backed hardliner Uribe. But the election was hardly a fair one.

Mapiripán is the site of one of the worst paramilitary massacres to date, yet many of the town’s residents voted for the “paramilitary” candidate, Uribe. Father Javier Giraldo of the Colombian human rights group Justicia y Paz was in Mapiripán on election day: “There was a great deal of fraud. There were paramilitaries in the voting booths. They destroyed a lot of ballots. This was denounced to the Ombudsman, but nothing happened.” Electoral fraud, widespread paramilitary threats—denounced by virtually all the other candidates during the election campaign—and the almost total decimation of the electoral left in the preceding decade all contributed to Uribe’s election victory.
(snip)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Elections done just the way the right-wing likes it! No chance whatsoever for the other side.

[Solon]

45. Hey, you forgot to mention the Columbian refugees that flee to freedom...

in Venzuela. They are sick of the violence, and the government does nothing, or encourages the violence, so they flee to a nation of freedom and Democracy.

[Up2Late]

59. Did you see he slithered in and out of the U.S. the other day?

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2114650&mesg_id=2114650>

[Judi Lynn]

61. Wow! Just saw your post for the first time. Thanks for the news.

I did NOT know he slithered here and back home. Very interesting. "Slither" seems the perfect word choice. Congrats!

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

54. You don't know the half:

http://cocaine.org/colombia/secretreport.html

[Solon]

58. Drugs, money and the CIA, I swear, its like a bad B movie...

real life sucks even more than what's on the Silver screen though. :(

[phusion]

64. Uribe?! hahaha

hahahahahahaha


hahahahahahaah

:rofl:

[IndianaGreen]

66. Uribe? The former head of rightwing death squads?

Your pro-School of the Americas dogmatism is shining through!

[BeHereNow]

10. Hate to tell you but...that is EXACTLY what is happening in America

The CORPORATIONS here have consolidated the media
to the point that they control ALL content.
BHN
PS: The US government is controlled by corporations
and I DO NOT appreciate THEIR intrusion to my
Congress, Senate and Executive branches of government.

[Bacchus39]

12. I can choose the type of music I listen too, I don't have to listen

to country/western patriotic songs half the time. I do like some though especially Johnny Cash. his music I would almost consider more folk than corporate county though.

but mostly I listen to rock, blues, altenative, classical with out having to hear the Star Spangled Banner at the top of the hour. the Jimmy Hendrix version is pretty good though.

[1932]

14. This is about whether Americans choose music rest of world hears,

or whether Canadians, the French, British, Venezuelans and anyone other than the US has a choice about what's heard.

[Bacchus39]

24. hmmm...I do have that choice

with vast availibility of music from all over the world, I select the type of music I want to hear.

I like some Spanish language music. I like Spanish guitar and flamenco alot better. I can listen to that if I want. The government can't require me to listen to Ted Nugent at least twice a day.

why are those governments requiring the stations to play national music? they have no more business requiring those stations to play it as they do of telling me what I can listen to.

[Darranar]

27. Why not?

Basic principles of justice apply to states just as much as to individuals.

[Judi Lynn]

21. Sublime! Wowie. Outstanding news, 1932!

I've only had a moment to scan your post, am looking forward to returning later to read the article closely. This is absolutely excellent.

Oh, ha ha ha ha. Someone has to contrive some insult now to use against the ICC, obviously. They never admit people can see right through them, the crude, heavy-handed, right-wing @$$####s.

Surely appreciate your post-script. Thanks a ton. Gonna be back later to study this excellent response to a loathesome, desperate, totally dishonest,stupid situation pulled outta their nether-regions by the "opposition," probably with some _Bush-State Department guidance.

[1932]

23. I'd like to see some of the DU'ers who put so much weight on these charges

put as much weight on the court's decision to dismiss the case.

[Up2Late]

26. “lack of precision as well as..."

“lack of precision as well as internal and external inconsistencies in the information.” Yup, sounds like it was written by the Bush Cabal.

I guess being a pissed off group of Oligarchs isn't enough for the ICC.
:applause:

[1932]

37. Which is, perhaps, one of the reasons Republicans won't sign on.

[slipslidingaway]

60. Thanks and there is a five 5 page report (pdf) at the following link.

http://www.icc-cpi.int/organs/otp/otp_com.html