Senior Anglican links US to Orwell over Guantanamo (AFP)

[Up2Late]

(No, not 1984, this time it's "Animal Farm," one of the first books I ever read.)

Senior Anglican links US to Orwell over Guantanamo

18/02/2006 02h36

LONDON (AFP) - The second most senior cleric in the Church of England has lashed out at the United States, saying its Guantanamo Bay detention centre reflected "a society that is heading towards George Orwell's 'Animal Farm'."

John Sentamu, the Archbishop of York, urged the UN Human Rights Commission to seek a writ of habeas corpus -- either through US courts or the International Court of Justice in The Hague -- compelling Washington to either put Guantanamo detainees on trial or free them. "The American government is breaking international law," Sentamu told The Independent newspaper in a front-page interview.

"The main building block of a democratic society is that everyone is equal before the law, innocent until proved otherwise, and has the right to legal representation," he said. "The US should try all 500 detainees at Guantanamo, who still include eight British residents, or free them without further delay. To hold someone for up to four years without charge clearly indicates a society that is heading towards George Orwell's 'Animal Farm'."

A report from the UN Human Rights Commission, released Thursday, said that the camp, inside a US naval base on the eastern end of Cuba, should be shut down and that prisoners there had been abused. US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on Friday rejected the report, and denied allegations of torture.

(more at link above)

<http://www.afp.com/english/news/stories/060218023317.jqkxff7z.html>

[neweurope]

1. Very good. As much as I used to dislike the big churches

I've come to the conclusion that they are pretty much our only hope.

-------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Up2Late]

3. 'The Americans are breaking international law... (The Independent)

'The Americans are breaking international law... it is a society heading towards Animal Farm' - Archbishop Sentamu on Guantanamo

By Ian Herbert and Ben Russell
Published: 18 February 2006

(clip)

"...The American Government is breaking international law," he told The Independent. "The main building block of a democratic society is that everyone is equal before the law, innocent until proved otherwise, and has the right to legal representation. If the guilt of the prisoners in Guantanamo Bay is beyond doubt, why are the Americans afraid to bring them to trial? Transparency and accountability are the other side of the coin of freedom and responsibility. We are all accountable for our actions in spite of circumstances. The events of 9/11 cannot erase the rule of law and international obligations.

"The US should try all 500 detainees at Guantanamo, who still include eight British residents, or free them without further delay. To hold someone for up to four years without charge clearly indicates a society that is heading towards George Orwell's Animal Farm."

The Government has already managed to secure the release, in March 2004, of the four British nationals who were detained at Guantanamo ­ Moazzam Begg, Feroz Abbasi, Martin Mubanga and Richard Belmar ­ although only after guarantees they would be constantly monitored and face an investigation to ascertain whether they can be charged in this country.

Washington had claimed all four were "enemy combatants" who trained at camps run by al-Qa'ida. But they were released after UK police concluded there was not enough evidence to charge them with any offence. The men said they had been tortured at Guantanamo, allegations the US denied....

(more at links below)

<http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article346214.ece>

Check out the front page of The Independent, link below (UK)

<http://www.independent.co.uk/>

[dubya_dubya_III]

11. Gitmo Concentration Gulag may well conceal many sins....

Embarrassment the real motive?

The most horrific aspect of the indecent, immoral criminal injustice being done in the Guantanamo Concentration Gulag, is the onerous prospect that much like the proven arms for hostages blackmail the Ayatollah Khomeini used against Poppy's Tory Conservative MI6-CIA Mafia during the criminal Reagan/Poppy Juntas, many of the detainees being held incommunicado there may actually be witnesses to the most credible pre September 11 treachery of our "own" MI6-CIA military industrial Mafiosi. (Abramoff connection?)

The 'rewards' of martyrdom?

The crucial issue here is that Osama Bin Laden, would be quite politically aware of the incredible popularity that sole attribution to himself for the planning of and execution of the Daniel Chapter 8 Show on September 11th has generated for himself and his movement. As a result of this inherent self-interest it well might be that it is as beneficial to him as it is to his former MI6-CIA-ISI Mafia masters that knowledgeable senior members of his own organization are perpetually silenced, prevented and prohibited from divulging any hint of collusion or cooperation between his agents and those of and his 'former' masters.

Analyze the benefits

If we are to believe our military industrial mafiosi, that many of these detainees have supplied them 'valuable intelligence' about this enemy, then where is the proof and what conceivable benefit could there be in not thereafter charging them and trying and convicting them for their crimes? In over 4 years no single case exists where US 'intelligence' mafiosi have autonomously captured or located any single new senior al Quaida operative. Indeed, all we have seen are happenstance captures of long sought well known former operatives of the MI6-CIA-ISI-al Quaida Mafia Syndicates, and the emergence of new senior al Quaida leadership. Surely al Quaida knows the identities of these detainees and the extent of their knowledge, and it has long ago taken steps to fully neutralize all of it's tactical value.

Disappearing POW's?

The real question then is, what is the motive behind 'disappearing' these 'detainees'? Indeed the "joyous public photo-op fanfare" surrounding the capture of each and every new legendary al Quaida detainee, is in and of itself a clear collusion with the enemy, since their awareness of each new potential compromise of their organization is clearly of most invaluable benefit to them, not us. Indeed even the semi-secret 'rendition' of detainees to disreputable foreign governments with questionable security, motives, alliances and allegiances is an even more onerous and easily compromising tactical conundrum.

The very notion that one could 'trust' in the governments of such vociferous haters of British American hegemony, like the formerly most outspokenly vociferous of all Communist allied nations like Yemen, or the homelands of Muslim extremism in Egypt and Saudi Arabia to be playing onside is totally ludicrous beyond reason.

Just what is this so-called "War on 'Terror'"?

It is in fact a 60 year old global religious socialist pissing match between the three major radically fundamentalist Abramic-Socialist Dogmatisms over the fate of Temple Mount in Jerusalem, with the added side issue of the freedom and dignity of the as yet to be geographically resolved and recognized original State of Palestine. Indeed the supposed 'two state solution' is yet no more than another obstacle to the clearly indicated Three State Requirement for any lasting concept of peace, security and justice.

Only a 3rd "State of Jerusalem" with Tripartite Religious Veto will solve this!

The rightful existence of Israel and Jewish socialism has been confounded by it's own illiberal political tendency toward established religious fascism. A radical apocalyptic religious socialist mutation of so-called 'Christianity' brought about by years of propagandized British Imperial Anglican Socialist fear of 'Godless' Imperial Soviet Worker Socialism, which unblinkingly feigns support for Israel in spite of any insult appears to have taken so-called 'Christian' Fascist control of America, which has become radical Jewish Fascism's apparent best 'friend', most distressingly because it seeks the destruction of Israel (not by it's own hand) to satisfy it's own demented religious socialist dogma of "Revelation".

Meanwhile it is Muslim socialists and the asymmetrical rise of Muslim Fascist nations whom are being persecuted, incited, insulted, subverted, martyred and burned at the stake as pawns to further their helpless involvement in the horrific global thermonuclear confrontation that has been so well staged (who engineered the 'technology transfers' that allowed Israel to build a suicidal hundreds-plus nuclear arsenal aimed at what, and then did nearly the same for Pakistan?) by criminal money grubbing MI6-CIA mafiosi who's own complimentary military industrial socialist radicalism is also dedicated to profitable military industrial violence, evil and injustice.


Indeed, having a real Christian here and there is always a risk, but the good Bishop better watch his back, for he is certainly a good shepherd among voracious and hypocritical wolves!


"As the union between spiritual freedom and political liberty seems nearly inseparable, it is our duty to defend both. And defence in the FIRST INSTANCE is best." Thomas Paine, Thoughts on Defensive War - 1775

"Today Christians rule Germany! I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess..." - *The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922-1939,

[mwooldri]

12. Anglicans rock!

Of course I am biased, I'm Anglican after all. I've never met John Sentamu but IMO if he carries on like this, he should go to Canterbury and replace Rowan Williams, if/when Rowan decides to quit.

It's also which big churches are our hope. Anglicans (or Episcopals) are certainly IMO bastions of "what's right". Lutherans, and Methodists are OK in my book too. Catholics are OK for the most part but the leadership in Rome is a little too strict IMO. Baptists are too separated out to speak with one voice, and the "megachurches" aren't really that mega when compared to the other denominations - 5,000 or 10,000 going to one independent church vs say 500,000 going to many churches of a particular denomination.

The "church" of Pat Robertson or "Dr." James Dobson is no hope at all.

Mark.

[neweurope]

14. No,and I don't consider them as being churches, but as fraud. I was

talking about The Roman Church, The Lutherans, the Anglical Church - well established churches, not snakeoil selling old testament frauds. Moreover I mean on the non-christian side the Hindus, Moslems, Buddhists... but certainly not the Moonies etc. I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, I just think that all people of good faith should get together. And those brimstone-spewing "evangelists" I certainly do not mean.

-------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Judi Lynn]

2. How long can Bush, Rumsfeld, etc. ignore the truth of the matter?

From Up2Late's article:

In London on Thursday, a senior High Court judge, Justice Andrew Collins, declared that the treatment of Guantanamo detainees did not "appear to coincide with that of most civilised nations".
(snip)

In Berlin on Friday, British Prime Minister Tony Blair said he stood by his position, set out in parliament in November, that Guantanamo Bay was "an anomaly that sooner or later has got to be dealt with".
(snip)

[Up2Late]

5. January 2009, if they do actually leave office after losing...

...I'm not completely convinced they will anymore, they've show already that they have NO respect for any law, even The U.S. Constitution.

If they do leave, I bet they make a bee line for Argentina or Costa Rica, or whereever Fascist hide these days.

[SKKY]

7. As long as they want to. Remember, they've been given a mandate.

[Selatius]

4. The US government recognizes nothing but force

If you don't have force to back up your words, they won't give two shits what you say regardless if it holds merit or not. The US also doesn't recognize the ICC, so that avenue is already dead in the water, and the corporatists control the courts in the US now.

[Skeptor]

6. I guess you're not talking about the force of ideas there.

It's worth examining though the defense made for keeping the prisoners in Gitmo in contravention of both the rule of law (that defines criminal behavior) and international agreements, most particularly the Geneva Convention - that they were caught bearing arms on the side of an international terrorist force, and are "enemy combatants" in a "war" of a sort that the Geneva Convention did not anticipate. That the state machinery established to apprehend and contain this "third category" of miscreant bears a striking resemblance to arbitrary rule merely brings to the home-front America's approach for many decades to socialism internationally - to overthrow it and replace it with a rightist, big-business-friendly junta.

The perceived threat (of socialism) is now so much diminished that all that hegemony-making energy has to go somewhere, and the new threat is being pursued in a shrunken world. When you're the boss of the sandpit and for reasons beyond your control the sandpit gets smaller, you just build yourself a higher, tougher fort in the middle. Anyone who doesn't want to be shut inside with you becomes an enemy. Simple. If they limit themselves to yelling at you, you can yell back or ignore them. If they throw stuff at you, you throw stuff back. If they look like they're thinking about throwing stuff at you, you yell at them until they get scared, show them the stuff you'll throw at them if they don't back off, and maybe throw stuff just in case.

After all the noble words following all the bloody wars of history, it's back to yelling and throwing. Until someone gets pulverized again.

The terrorism element ("a new threat the likes of which we have never before experienced") is also the justification for the hard-right's push to legitimize institutional torture, which of course continues in spite of the legislature refusing to buckle, however there might be some solace in the fact that this refusal means that to practice it entails (in the junta's own minds) a risk with their immortal souls by having to tell lies to one's own country folk. But when you're the owner of the biggest toys and rulers of God's Own Sandpit, maybe the risk isn't so great, after all.

[rodeodance]

8. our own SC said to put them on trial or release them-but has that happened

NO-footdrapping all the way.

....John Sentamu, the Archbishop of York, urged the UN Human Rights Commission to seek a writ of habeas corpus -- either through US courts or the International Court of Justice in The Hague -- compelling Washington to either put Guantanamo detainees on trial or free them. "The American government is breaking international law," Sentamu told The Independent newspaper in a front-page interview.

[dubya_dubya_III]

9. I have seen the NME and it is us

"Crime by means of thought, is quite insidious"



"...avoid the necessity of those overgrown military establishments which, under any form of government, are inauspicious to liberty, and which are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty." -- George Washington

[Up2Late]

10. kick n/t

:kick:

[Up2Late]

13. kick n/t

:kick: