France arrests gang suspected in killing of Parisian Jew

[Behind the Aegis]

Last update - 09:32 19/02/2006

France arrests gang suspected in killing of Parisian Jew

By Assaf Uni, Haaretz Correspondent

PARIS - The French police arrested late Thursday night most of the members of the gang that abducted, tortured and murdered Ilan Halimi, a 23-year-old Jew from Paris.

Hundreds of SWAT officers raided apartments in Bagneux and arrested 12 people. Another suspect was arrested in Belgium.

"They acted with indescribable cruelty," the judiciary police chief leading the investigation said. "They kept him naked and tied up for weeks. They cut him and in the end poured flammable liquid on him and set him alight."

While the citizens of France were shocked by the unbridled violence of the gang, Halimi's family claims that the murder was motivated by anti-Semitism.


more...

[Missy M]

1. This is horrendous. I hope they catch all the perpetrators and...

give them life in prison with no chance of ever getting out. How does society produce such monsters? It sure seems to be a hate crime.

[awoke_in_2003]

2. Through good old-fashioned

religious bigotry.

[Greyhound]

7. Religion produces these monsters. When you know, with absolute

certainty, The Truth and everybody that disagrees is a subhuman minion of the enemy, it is easy to carry out these kinds of acts.

[jakpalmer]

15. 30 years without parole

That's what the gang leader could get, at most.
I hope they catch him and he gets this sentence.

[coffeenap]

3. May his family find peace. nt

[JudyM]

4. The kidnappers told the parents to look for the money in their synagogue

but it's not considered anti-semitic officially? Why - because they didn't brand the poor man's forearm with a number?

x(

[Igel]

5. "They also recited verses from the Koran."

One wonders which. Ahem.

[fedsron2us]

9. Probably not 17:13

The actions of each man are bound about his neck. On the Day Of Resurrection, he shall be confronted with the scroll spread wide open

[Igel]

16. No, probably not.

Pity, that. Else maybe they'd have not done their hateful deeds.

[alcibiades_mystery]

22. "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides

by the inequities of the selfish and the tyrannies of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepards the weak through the valley of darkness. For he is truly his brothers' keeper and finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."



These guys are criminals, and probably two-bit THUG LIFE "gangstas."

[Imajika]

6. The title of this story should be...

...France arrests MUSLIM gang suspected in killing of Parisian Jew.

Another case of Muslims unable to play nice with anyone or anything unIslamic is what this is.

"'First, because the killers tried to kidnap at least two other Jews, and second, because of what they said on the phone,' Rafi Halimi added. 'When we said we didn't have 500,000 euros to give them they told us to go to the synagogue and get it,' Rafi said. 'They also recited verses from the Koran.'"

And this is not an anti-semetic attack? Ofcourse it is.

They probably think their getting 72 virgins for this one. Which brings up a queston I've always had. Indeed every man would love to get hold of 72 virgins as an afterlife reward, but who are these virgins and is this the female version of hell? Why would any good Muslim woman wish to strive to go to a place like this? A place she will be revirginized and handed out to live as a concubine to the most violent of men. Sounds like a bad deal to me.

[Greyhound]

8. Here's one man that wouldn't want even one virgin, let alone, 72. n/t

[OldHistoryBuff]

10. Agreed

Very well said.

[PsychoDad]

13. The actual wording reads....

"A police source said the gang is a group of childhood friends who grew up in Bagneux, a suburb south of Paris. The gang includes Muslims of North African descent and is headed by Youssef Fofana, who has escaped police capture so far."

First there is no mention that the gang was Muslim, only that some members were.

Second, by your logic, one would have to assume that because the Crypts have many members that profess to be Christian than The Crypts are a Christian gang, and thus proving the tendency of all christians to be "unable to play nice ", as you put it. The Mafia is/was mostly Catholic, therefore the Mafia is a Catholic gang, again proving all Catholics are "unable to play nice ".

Such supposed reasoning is faulty at best, spurious and provocative at worst. Fortunately most here have the intellect to see through such a blatantly Islamophobic attack.

Yes, I think the attack was anti-semitic. Otherwise, why would these criminals target only Jews? Yes I think the perpetrators should held accountable for their actions and punished to the fullest extent of the law. As any gang of criminals should be. But their actions were in no way driven by their religion any more than the Mafia is out to further the aims of the Pope.

As for the common Islamiphobic "72 virgins" slur, perhaps someone can inquire of a muslim the truth of this supposed teaching. I think it would make for a fine question in the Muslim/Islamic Group forum, where it would not be quickly buried by a ton of other posts, and thus remain there to enlighten others who would also like to learn the truth.

Peace.

[toopers]

17. You are missing something obvious . . .

the crypts and the mafia do not intentionally seek out non-faith victims, as this group in France did. How many members of this gang need to be muslim before it is "officially" a muslim gang? Unfortunately, this is another muslim attack on non-believers, pure and simple. And no screams of outrage or protests from the cartoon readers -- just silence and denial.

[PsychoDad]

18. Are we sure...

All crimes committed by this gang were only targeted at Jews? If you are then you know more about this gang than I do, or infer from the article. The kidnapping plot apparently was, but was that because they were acting out of a religious intent or because many anti-semites (and other ignorant people) believe that "All jews have money", and thus the surest way to insure your victim has money is to insure they are jewish?

This was a gang, I'm sure that there was probably other crimes they committed, and probably religion was not a factor in those either.

I'm sure if the French Government considered them "Jihadists" they would have been more than adequately described as such.

And that is an Obvious point.

Peace.

PS: on edit- I am one of the "Cartoon readers" and I for one am outraged at this crime and at any crime against any person, Muslim, Jewish, Christian, Pastafarian, etc. Violence, Aggression, Murder and Kidnapping is wrong, and my religion tells me so.

[toopers]

19. The cartoon readers I am referring to are the . . .

imams and politicians who issued fatwas and bounties for the deaths of the artists. I am sure you knew this though.

[PsychoDad]

30. It looked very general.

"And no screams of outrage or protests from the cartoon readers -- just silence and denial."

No silence or denial here.

You should have specified imams and politicians who issued fatwas and bounties, in which case they, like Pat Robertson, weren't very silent.

Peace.

[iverglas]

25. a little critical thinking is in order

the crypts and the mafia do not intentionally seek out non-faith victims, as this group in France did.

This group apparently sought out RICH victims -- not because of their religion or ethnicity or anything else, but because they were believed to be RICH.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,,1715029,00.html

The police, who found literature linking some of the suspects to Palestinian and Muslim groups, have insisted the murder was motivated by greed - the gang had demanded a ransom - and not religious motives.

Mr Sarkozy told MPs: "The truth is that these crooks acted primarily for sordid and vile motives, to get money, but they were convinced that 'the Jews have money', and if those they kidnapped didn't have money, their family and their community would come up with it.

"That's called anti-Semitism by amalgam."

"Anti-Semitism by amalgam". First comes the negatives stereotype -- the Jews have money, part of that stereotype being that the Jews get money by doing bad things -- then comes the targetting of them for their money, made easier because they don't deserve the money anyhow.

Mr Sarkozy said he was releasing details of the inquiry but he hoped they would not arouse hate or fear. "What we don't need now, in addition to this barbarity, is misunderstanding, intolerance and racism," he said.

Nicholas Sarkozy:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3673102.stm

The son of a Hungarian immigrant, and a mother whose family was Greek and Jewish, he was never the classic insider.

Perhaps he's worth some people hereabouts listening to.

[IA_Seth]

33. So by your logic...

Since Nazi's were Christians, and they targeted Jews, they were a "Christian Gang"?

Hardly so.

I have to agree with PyschoDad, borderline islamophobic nonsense.

[iverglas]

34. nobody seems to want to answer

the crypts (sic) and the mafia do not intentionally seek out non-faith victims, as this group in France did.

Do groups in the US whose members are majority African-American seek out non-African-American victims to rob, do you suppose?

A few points.

It strikes me that the use of the word "gang" in relation to this incident is conjuring up images in USAmerican minds that are probably not appropriate. This is not a gang on the scale of the Crips or the Mafia or the Hell's Angels. This sounds like a bunch of hoodlums.

So let's not ask whether the Crips or the Mafia seek out people of different skin colours or ethnic backgrounds to victimize. Let's ask whether bunches of hoodlums of one skin colour or ethnic background or religion seek out victims of another to victimize.

And let's then ask why, if they do. Do African-American hoodlums seek out white victims to rob? If a bunch of African-American hoodlums wanted to make some quick cash by holding someone to ransom, might they be more likely to pick a white victim than a black victim?

If so (as I suspect), why might that be? I can think of two main reasons. The first would be that white victims are (as they perceive it, whether it is true or not) more likely to have cash and valuables. A second might possibly be that the hoodlums are somewhat susceptible to norms of their group against victimizing other members of the group.

In this case, it seems to be a fact that the hoodlums in question believed that 'the Jews have money'. It does not appear that there is any ground for suspecting that they were out to harm Jews. They were out to get quick cash, and they picked someone who (as they perceived it) was likely to provide them with it.

This belief arises from pervasive stereotyping by many segments of a society, not just from one group's religious bigotry. In fact, it is much more likely to be a belief acquired in France, from French society, than from any Muslim or Arab bigots.

It would be hard to believe that no non-Muslims have targeted Jews for robbery in the recent past, based on that same stereotype. In fact, I'd suspect that some Jews in the US have been targeted for robbery for exactly the same reasons.

This is very apparently NOT "another muslim attack on non-believers, pure and simple".

There are complexities to the stereotyping and animosity that lie behind crimes like these. Jews are thought not only to have money, but to have acquired it illegitimately. Jews are not held in high regard and thus do not have the protection against victimization that even hoodlums might accord to people they do respect.

People don't generally rob their families, they rob strangers; and people do indeed tend to rob people whom they do not hold in high regard.

Do African-American hoodlums rob Korean store owners because they hate Koreans? There are undoubtedly many African-Americans who hate Koreans. They don't all rob Korean store owners.

Burning a synagogue, or vandalizing a Korean store, or bashing a gay man -- those are non-Jewish attacks on Jews, or non-Korean attacks on Koreans, or non-gay attacks on gay people, "pure and simple".

Robbing a Jew because you believe that the Jews have money is, really, a different thing. You are after money, not after simply hurting someone.

The crime is directed against a particular victim because, fundamentally, that victim has been stereotyped. The victim may also be hated, but the hatred is not the motivation for the crime.

And that is precisely why stereotyping is intolerable. And that is precisely why many (far from enough) people hereabouts object to the publication of materials like the anti-Muslim/Arab Danish "cartoons".

And I don't really care what your "cartoon readers" have to say about any of it, any more than I care what racists and bigots at DU have to say about "free speech". The reaction of racists and bigots to one thing does not condition my response to something else, or define what is done by anyone else.

[iverglas]

24. "their actions were in no way driven by their religion"

And actually, what they seem to have been driven by are the persistent and pervasive negative stereotypes of Jews, in French society and most other societies: that "the Jews have money" (and, of course, ill-gotten money, according to the stereotype), according to one media report.

Gosh, and some might wonder why the publication of editorial material that negatively stereotypes members of racial / religious / ethnic etc. groups is seen by some people as something to be strongly discouraged.

[BoneDaddy]

29. Thanks

for instilling this with some rationality. Good points.

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. These guys are probably hip hop thugs more than Islamic terrorists

They have a gang with a name? I'll bet they wear FUBU gear more than "traditional" Muslim garb.

[iverglas]

23. yeah

The title of this story should be...
...France arrests MUSLIM gang suspected in killing of Parisian Jew.

Just like reports of crimes in the US media should say

- New York arrests BLACK man suspecting in killing of Bronx white guy
- Chicago arrests CHRISTIAN woman suspected in bad cheques written to Springfield Russian-owned department store

Because people's race and religion and ethnicity are all oh so important and are, really, the reasons they commit crimes.

And this is not an anti-semetic attack? Ofcourse it is.

Oh, and because only Muslims commit anti-Semitic attacks ... and only African-Americans kill white guys ...

Your further comments on Muslim theology paint an eloquent picture of your own shortcomings more than anyone else's, obviously.

Ain't DU just the coziest, most comfortable little place for spewing one's bile?

[Adelante]

11. A very ugly story

RIP

[Yupster]

12. Am I reading this right

that he was still alive after having been burned over 80 % of his body?

The kidnappers put out the fire, loaded him into a car and dumped him still alive at a station?

Hrd to think of much worse.

[Behind the Aegis]

14. More on this....

'If he hadn't been Jewish, he wouldn't have been murdered'

By Assaf Uni, Haaretz Correspondent

PARIS - The mother of Ilan Halimi, the 23-year-old Parisian Jew who was abducted, tortured and murdered by a gang in a suburb of the capital, accuses the police of missteps that led to her son's death.

She revealed to Haaretz Sunday that the police told the family to ignore the gang's attempts to contact them for five critical days, after which Ilan was found near death outside the city. She also accuses the police of ignoring the anti-Semitic motivation in the case in order not to alienate Muslims.

"If Ilan hadn't been Jewish, he wouldn't have been murdered," she says.

Friends and relatives came to the family home in the 12th arondissement to pay their respects. Ilan lived in the apartment with his mother Ruth, and sisters Yael and Anne-Laure; their father lives elsewhere.

The family came to France from Morocco 25 years ago. Ruth says that Ilan recently began talking about immigrating to Israel.

more...

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. Plays well in Haaretz, I suppose

Whether there is any basis in fact to that claim is completely unclear.

[iverglas]

27. if they hadn't been white ...

She also accuses the police of ignoring the anti-Semitic motivation in the case in order not to alienate Muslims.

"If Ilan hadn't been Jewish, he wouldn't have been murdered," she says.

What would we really think of someone whose son was killed in a carjacking in a US city -- victim white, killers black -- who insisted that the race of the victim be made the central issue in the case?

If the offenders went to a predominantly white neighbourhood to commit their crimes -- because that was where they believed they were more likely to find tasty new SUVs to rob the people driving them of -- would the crime be described as racially motivated?

Assume that whites are *not* more likely to be driving expensive SUVs than blacks, and black people just think they are. Because they live in a society where they're told constantly that whites are rich, and make money by exploiting blacks.

Is the motivation racial? Or is it criminal greed?

An anti-Semitic crime, or other racially/religiously etc. motivated crime, is committed in order to harm someone because of his/her race/religion etc.

A crime committed against someone based on a stereotype that depicts the victim as the best prospect for success in the criminal endeavour is not the same thing. It is motivated by something other than hatred. Hatred led to the selection of the victim, but did not motivate the crime. This is different from committing a crime against an individual or group because of a desire to harm a person or group because of his/her or their race/religion etc.

That said, in this specific case, it may well be that the viciousness of what was done once the crime was initiated *was* motivated by hatred. And that aspect should indeed not be ignored, and I don't intend to minimize it. Nor, of course, should the possibility of police incompetence or negligence, and of any improper motivation for it that there may have been, be ignored.

Nonetheless, it appears that the gang in question was primarily motivated by its desire to acquire money, rather than its desire to hurt someone who belonged to a particular group. And saying "Muslim gang commits crime" is just as improper a stereotype as saying "the Jews have money".

[Behind the Aegis]

35. Is the motivation racial? Or is it criminal greed?

It appears to have been both. They tried to kidnap other Jews. There is nothing suggesting they were going after anyone other than Jews. One family paid the ransom. They were also in it for the money.

[iverglas]

36. the *motivation* was criminal greed

The choice of victim was dictated by belief in a stereotype.

I don't see any grounds for concluding anything else -- even that the choice of victim was dictated by hatred.

The decision to target *only* Jews might indicate that hatred played some role in the choice of victim, indeed. Or it might just indicate that they thought their chances of hitting a rich victim were greatly increased by choosing random Jews rather than just random individuals, as someone here has said.

Certainly hoodlums can be stupid enough to believe a stereotype and still smart enough to do what they think will maximize their chances of success.

If you were bent on finding someone to beat up, might you not choose a Quaker -- because Quakers don't fight back, not because you hate Quakers?

[Behind the Aegis]

37. as I said...it appears to be both.

"The choice of victim was dictated by belief in a stereotype." That is motivation. The motivation was two-fold...anti-Semitic (based on a stereotype) and monetary.

You ask: "If you were bent on finding someone to beat up, might you not choose a Quaker -- because Quakers don't fight back, not because you hate Quakers?" Could it also be possible that I would choose a Quaker because they don't fight back and I hate them?

When you pick a victim based on their race, religion, sexual orientation, or nationality, it is a hate crime. Had they simply murdered him, what would you assert was their motivation? Just spoiling for a good murder?

On edit: read the last line of post #26.

[iverglas]

38. as you said; but I didn't

The choice of victim was dictated by belief in a stereotype.
That is motivation. The motivation was two-fold...anti-Semitic (based on a stereotype) and monetary.

No, it isn't motivation. And stereotyping is not the same as hatred, even if you choose to use "anti-Semitic" to cover both.

From the available facts, the offenders were NOT motivated to kidnap a Jew by hatred of Jews, they were motivated to kidnap a Jew by greed.

Stereotyping is a belief. I can hold stereotyped beliefs about someone without hating him/her, and without doing, or even wishing, the person any harm. Of course, I can also hate someone without doing the person any harm. But it simply makes no sense to say that I would decide to beat someone up, say, because of some stereotyped belief about him/her. He's stupid, so I beat him up; she smells funny, so I beat her up. ??

S/he is rich, so I robbed him/her. Nope. Not unless I were motivated by criminal greed.

Could it also be possible that I would choose a Quaker because they don't fight back and I hate them?

Gee, and did I not say:

The decision to target *only* Jews might indicate that hatred played some role in the choice of victim, indeed.

Was there something about this that was so unclear that you needed to ask that question?

What I'm not seeing is any basis for believing, or saying, that hate played any role in the choice of *this* victim, or the other victims of the same people.

Of course, what I am seeing a lot of in this thread is stereotyping of Muslims -- they hate Jews, so any Muslim who commits a crime against a Jew is committing a hate crime.

Ew. Not much different, logically, from "the Jews have money, so let's rob a Jew". Unless one happens to think that irrationally ascribing evil to someone in public is worse than irrationally ascribing wealth to someone.

When you pick a victim based on their race, religion, sexual orientation, or nationality, it is a hate crime.

Nope. You can say that, but I don't have to agree with it.

Here's how it goes where I'm at:
http://www.canlii.org/ca/sta/c-46/sec718.2.html

718.2 A court that imposes a sentence shall also take into consideration the following principles:

(a) a sentence should be increased or reduced to account for any relevant aggravating or mitigating circumstances relating to the offence or the offender, and, without limiting the generality of the foregoing,

(i) evidence that the offence was motivated by bias, prejudice or hate based on race, national or ethnic origin, language, colour, religion, sex, age, mental or physical disability, sexual orientation, or any other similar factor, ...

The offence, not the choice of victim.

Burning a mosque is probably an offence motivated by bias, prejudice or hate -- i.e. if the offender had no reason (that's what "motive" means, as in the French motif) to burn it: insurance proceeds, maybe. Breaking into a mosque to steal things because the offender believes that Muslims keep valuable things in mosques is not an offence motivated by bias, prejudice or hate.

When you pick a victim based on a belief that the victim has what you want, regardless of WHY you believe that, the offence is motivated by criminal greed.


read the last line of post #26.

Well, since I'm the one who requested that post 26, which was originally its own thread, be combined with this one, because it contained useful information, I've already read it. It's this:

Mr Sarkozy told MPs: "The truth is that these crooks acted primarily for sordid and vile motives, to get money, but they were convinced that 'the Jews have money', and if those they kidnapped didn't have money, their family and their community would come up with it.

And I'm not grasping the reason you have directed me to read it. It seems to support what I said: the motivation was to get money, the choice of victim was dictated by a stereotyped belief.

Don't get me wrong, please: I abhor stereotyping. Not only because this is the kind of thing it leads to.

[sabra]

26. Brutal murder was anti-Semitic crime, says Sarkozy (France)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,,1715029,00.html

Brutal murder was anti-Semitic crime, says Sarkozy

· Gang approached other Jews in failed kidnap bids
· French police chase suspect to Ivory Coast


The French interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, yesterday described the abduction, torture and killing of a young Jewish man as an anti-Semitic crime, amid growing anger at the brutal murder.
Mr Sarkozy told the French parliament that the gang sought for the murder of Ilan Halimi, 23, whose naked body was found by railway tracks eight days ago, three weeks after he had disappeared, had also tried to kidnap other Jews.

The police, who found literature linking some of the suspects to Palestinian and Muslim groups, have insisted the murder was motivated by greed - the gang had demanded a ransom - and not religious motives.

Mr Sarkozy told MPs: "The truth is that these crooks acted primarily for sordid and vile motives, to get money, but they were convinced that 'the Jews have money', and if those they kidnapped didn't have money, their family and their community would come up with it.

[Laughing Mirror]

28. Police found that "literature" at the parents' of one of the suspects

According to a judicial source cited in today's Libération. The literature consisted of Salsifist "prescriptions" as well as documents linking the parents to a charity relief organization for Palestinians. Much as the edtitors at the Guardian might hope for, there was nothing found linking any of the suspects to any clandestine terrorist groups.

The ransom apparently went as low as 1,000 Euros at one point, and then getting no response at that low sum, zoomed back up to 300,000 at the next go round. From what I could gather seeing the mother of Ilan Halimi on the news last night, the cops seemed to be encouraging the family not to respond. This may explain why this horrible nightmare dragged on for so long. Were the cops stalling for time to try to put together a lead into who was doing this, a lead they never got?

[alcibiades_mystery]

31. Such literature is probably found in 70% of the homes in Clichy-sous-Bois

I mean, really. That's like saying they found a Bible and mailer from the Christian Coalition in a home in rural Georgia. Big fucking deal.

[Colorado Blue]

32. A shame. May his family find some peace.