Few Think U.S. Poverty Rate Is Accurate

[Judi Lynn]

Few Think U.S. Poverty Rate Is Accurate
By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER, Associated Press Writer

Tuesday, February 21, 2006

(02-21) 03:06 PST WASHINGTON (AP) --

Every year, the Census Bureau uses a 40-year-old formula to determine how many poor people there are in America, a method that many experts think was outdated years ago.

The Census Bureau acknowledges the issue by also announcing alternative poverty rates based on different measurements of income and poverty. This approach has fueled an academic and political debate, but has yet to produce policy changes.

In August, the bureau announced that 12.7 percent of Americans lived in poverty in 2004, making it the official poverty rate. Last week, the bureau said the rate might be as high as 19.4 percent, or as low as 8.3 percent, depending on how income and basic living costs were defined.
(snip)

"I know virtually no one who thinks the current poverty line is an accurate measure of poverty," said Rebecca Blank, co-director of the National Poverty Center at the University of Michigan.
(snip/...)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/02/21/national/w030651S43.DTL

[rodeodance]

1. ah-I see now why a headline the other day that Poverty rates had fallen-

I had not time to read the article at the time.


....In August, the bureau announced that 12.7 percent of Americans lived in poverty in 2004, making it the official poverty rate. Last week, the bureau said the rate might be as high as 19.4 percent, or as low as 8.3 percent, depending on how income and basic living costs were defined.
(snip)

[xchrom]

2. ''or as low as 8.3 percent''

something tells me THAT'S not right.

[apnu]

5. "depending on how income and basic living costs were defined"

Remember: BushCo thinks its OK to pay someone minimum wage and work < 35 hours a week and have that be considered gainful employment. The Chimp's jobs numbers always count burger flippers at McDonald's and re-stockers at Wal-Mart as 'full-time employment' Everybody not under the illusion of DC fantasy-land knows that $5.35/hour is a joke.

[ninjaterrorist]

3. the census is sabotaged by it's own formulas on purpose

19,4 even sounds on the low side, imho it's closer to 25.

[raccoon]

4. The official poverty line

for a family of 4 in 2006 is $20,000.

http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/06poverty.shtml

These days, in most cases, it’s hard for ONE person to get by on that.

Let’s be generous; let’s say this family of four lives in an area where the cost of living is relatively low (such as small-town or rural Southern state or Midwestern state) in a house that belonged to their parents or grandparents and they don’t have to pay any rent or mortgage. Just maintenance. Let’s say they grow some of their own food and can it or freeze it. Mama is able to do some of the car maintenance; Dad can mend clothes so they last longer.

They would still be hard pressed to make it on $20,000.

[sybylla]

6. No kidding!

In 1990, when my husband took a job in a rural part of my state, even with lower cost of living here and an unbelievably low mortgage payment of $300 (the house was cheap because it needed loads of work) and one small car payment, our family of four lived paycheck to paycheck on $29,000. I'm happy to agree we weren't suffering poverty wages, but we were one catastrophic event away from not being able to pay our basic bills, afford enough groceries and keep our family clothed, even with regular rummage sale excursions. And I had to be super vigilant with every penny just to have $10 left over to treat ourselves to pizza once in a while.

I'm sure with the high cost of housing today, the ridiculous cost of cars, unaffordable health insurance and a minimum wage that won't budge, there are loads of families of four struggling to get by $30,000.

[raccoon]

10. Thanks for sharing your experience. nt

[oscar111]

15. 109 trillion is USwealth

see Demopedia, page Capital, for sources .. gov data sources, link

poverty could vanish in an hour

[sybylla]

17. I hear ya.

That's exactly why it rankles me so to see us reverting to the tax system like that of the turn of the last century. The burden upon the wealthy to support our world was non-existent then and is nearly so now.

[oscar111]

18. JOB SHORTAGE, not unemployment is the LW stat to use

The stat, Unemp Rate, is great for the RW Because it lets them claim "plenty of jobs.. you are just lazy bums"

but the JOB SHORTAGE stat is good for the LW, since it right off the bat, refutes the RW claim of many jobs around, and claiming the jobless are lazy bums who are to blame .

[0007]

7. Many seniors barely make it on $7500 - They just go through

the motions in a meaningless world. I know a few more that make it on less than $5,000.

A family of four would be tough indeed.

[The Flaming Red Head]

11. and you know the parents couldn't afford health insurance

at 20,000 a year and would be making too much in most southern states to qualify for medicaid.

[The Flaming Red Head]

8. In 2000 we chased a census guy in our neighborhood

and asked him why we weren't being counted and we begged him to count us and he refused. I was sharing a duplex with my best friend who was also and a gay male and my teenage son and we wanted our non traditional household included. The census taker was going door to door and we watched as he was turned away by an entire community of traditional muslim housewives who predominated on our street. We thought he would be glad to have the chance to talk someone, since none of the Arabs would talk to him. He said no and I know we weren't included in the count that year and neither was anyone our street.

[raccoon]

9. Thank you. I never thought about that, about people who aren't

counted in the census--except for illegal aliens or the homeless.
I'd never thought that there are others besides those two groups who aren't counted.

[The Flaming Red Head]

12. The muslims wouldn't talk to them

they were suspicious and I bet it's no different now.

[Mithras61]

14. You know it isn't any different...

and it isn't just muslims and homeless either. The under-counted and uncounted are the people most desparately in need of gov't assistance, but fear the gov't will do to them what it has done to thousands (maybe millions) of others. This includes illegal immigrants, legal but barely scraping by, the legal & making a decent living but sharing the one-bedroom apartment with 9 others who aren't registered residents, etc...

[zann725]

13. Particularly those who've fallen into or below Poverty line recently..

Who counts the homeless? Of long-time jobless? Or "temp's"? Or unregistered aliens? Or Disabled starving, while waiting LTD benefits to be approved for 2-3 years or more?

The only "bumps" in employment now comes during the Holiday seasons, and summer help. (Both part-time, low-wage, NO benefits...or future.)

Seniors working at McDonalds to make ends meet...and pay for meds, or heat. What a country indeed to be proud of...for some. Some...

[oscar111]

16. US total wealth

see my re earlier up this thread.. Oscar

[MrPrax]

19. Take the WalMart Test...

A good article is worth repeating:

Wal-Mart Wages Don't Support Wal-Mart Workers

"...Last Sunday, my adult son and daughter joined me for a visit to the Wal-Mart Supercenter in Salina. We spent an hour and a half wandering among the hundreds of red, blue and yellow "Always Low Prices" signs. We checked many of those prices and then went home to do some calculating.

Our conclusion: A single parent employed full-time at Salina's Wal-Mart and raising two children aged 4 and 12 does not earn enough money to supply the family's basic needs by shopping at that same Wal-Mart.

According to the personnel manager at Salina's Supercenter, a cashier earns a starting hourly wage of $6.25. After Social Security and Medicare taxes, the paychecks for a month would total $1,016 for a full-time 176 hours. (That's 40 hours a week, which would put this cashier in a better financial position than the many employees who work 32 or fewer hours a week. Of course, hourly pay rises eventually, but the 2001 PBS report "Store Wars" found that most employees have left by the end of their first year.)
http://www.alternet.org/story/16111/

And just so the high falutin' anti-Wal-Mart types don't get too big for their britches...
His follow up article:

Natural Food, Unnatural Prices

"...Back at Whole Foods, we followed the same simulated-shopping rules, selecting the cheapest food in each food category and the cheapest brand of that type. Using those prices, I computed the monthly cost of feeding an adult female, a 12-year-old boy and a 4-year-old child.

At Salina's Wal-Mart, the bill had been $232, plus sales tax. At Whole Foods, the same basket of food cost $564. Texas has no sales tax on food, and Whole Foods employees get a 20 percent discount, bringing the cost for the San Antonio cashier all the way down to $451. That monthly price tag includes only the cheapest foods in each category, and none of the store's popular luxury items.

The starting wage for a cashier at Salina's Wal-Mart in 2003 was $6.25, which fell $146 per month short of meeting her family's survival budget. Whole Foods employees in three states told me that a starting cashier's wages tend to be between $7 and $8, but according to Whole Foods spokesperson Ashley Hawkins, a poll of all company regions showed a starting wage of $8 to $10.
...
Whole Foods CEO John Mackey is frank about that. He recently told The Independent (UK), "You can't have it both ways. If you want the highest quality, it costs more. It's like complaining that a BMW is more expensive than a Hyundai. Yes, but you're getting a better car."
...
Half of the zip codes with Whole Foods stores lie above $72,000 in average income. A fourth of them exceed $100,000.
http://www.alternet.org/story/31260/

So the moral of the story--Capitalism needs poverty so middle class people can feel superior.

[raccoon]

20. "Capitalism needs poverty so

middle class people can feel superior."

Until they slide into poverty too. It doesn't take much. A company moving overseas, or moving its jobs overseas. A disability. A long illness.

[Name removed]

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[raccoon]

22. "it certainly is the best thing going?" That's your opinion.

Democratic socialism would get my vote.

So you don't think it's easy to slide into poverty? Well, maybe you and the people you've known have been lucky.

[Name removed]

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[oscar111]

24. Job Shortage, fourteen mill, makes it impossible for 14 mill to rise out

of poverty.

not easy at all.

impossible.

as to "little hope", the Norwegians dont need hope. they have REALITY already, the no. one nation in the world, for quality of life and living standards, according to UN ratings . THey also outlive us.

[Name removed]

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[raccoon]

28. Quitate la mascara, bucklebone.

I notice you've disabled your profile.

Are you going to ask who's that tripping over the bridge?

[Name removed]

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[oscar111]

38. You opened the door to comparisons in your earlier post.

PS norway has problems we do not.. laplanders, smallness allows world economy to slam them harder when it wobbles, minor languague, vulnerability to germans doing "it" again, heritage of WW2 losses , small farm area , less favorable climate for farming.. long winters.

One must deal with all the variables, not throw up the hands and avoid the unflattering comparisons with the US.

[raccoon]

27. Right, they don't have to worry about ending up in the street

because of medical debt.

[Name removed]

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[raccoon]

32. And nobody has to declare bankruptcy because of medical bills.

Yeah. Right.

Enjoy your stay.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

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[oscar111]

39. 24 nations with free dr's outlive us,. That is strong

under gop, we have slipped down five slots in the longevity ranks.

Eng and Ger get housecalls under the free dr. system

[shrike]

42. Granted, it's been a while since I've been in Norway

Thirteen years, maybe. Looked pretty darn nice to me. Good roads, clean cities. Fairly happy people. None of the appalling poverty we see here, unless they keep it well hidden.
The average American would do well to travel to a country like Norway. It'd be a rude awakening.

[raccoon]

26. "Should provide an adequate safety net"--Yes.

I suppose it would have to be the gov't, which SHOULD. Many families wouldn't. Churches, maybe.

"It's also a blessing to rise from the middle class to the upper class."

Is the implication that those who don't rise to the upper class aren't blessed, or are less blessed than those who do? Just the way you've phrased that sounds...weird.

[Name removed]

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[oscar111]

35. One should never have to rise. Middle class should be fine

but it is now being destroyed, to impove profits.
Mexico is the utopia for GOP leaderes., and their goal for the US.

As to fam and churc h and gov being a safety net,
the first two have never been enough, in the face of the huge job shortage.

the gov must step in. THe gop gov does not wish to. Sociopaths, they be.

[cmdrzog]

41. Sociopaths is right at the core of it

The only value these people have is money. I am of the opinion that they must take some perverse satisfaction in the hardship and misfortune of others or they could not do what they do. If the government doesn't step in the people might just step up.

[oscar111]

36. OOPs duplicate, sorry

but it is now being destroyed, to impove profits.
Mexico is the utopia for GOP leaderes., and their goal for the US.

As to fam and churc h and gov being a safety net,
the first two have never been enough, in the face of the huge job shortage.

the gov must step in. THe gop gov does not wish to. Sociopaths, they be.

[underpants]

34. Oh so THAT'S why Paul Harvey mentioned it this morning

of course Paul had a different take on it....he said you could have a million dollar house and take a year off to travel the world and still be considered poor. See the number of poor is overstated all is well long live the freedom of capitalism...etc.

[oscar111]

37. He really said gthat? Pls give details. amazing , that Harvey.

he also chastised the "nanny legislators" who wanted to require flameproof pajamas for kids.

amazing troglodite

[underpants]

40. I basically covered it

HE started off saying that the poverty levels had not been changed in 40 years and that no one believes the stats. He added something about how no one wants to change the levels for political reasons and then his last comment was about having a million dollar house and traveling around the world for a year and still being considered poor.

I think I understand this-such a person would have officially NO income other than capital gains or annuitities etc. HE made it sound like it was quite common (Everyone is doing so well why aren't YOU!?!?!?) and so forth.

[sweetheart]

43. poor and rich reframed evermore

How rich must one be to have the grace,
to be led by the better wiser of us all,
or to have unbuilt natural space,
unpolluted undesigned unexplored, not on call.
How poor does minimum wage's freedom account,
who lives with corporate crime government of our children's fall,
retire on the job, death while alive owing the store plantation amount,
unpoured, undrunk, styrofoam cups of whiskey sit on ones forgotten funeral pall.

a thought at least somebody must stand accord,
for what freedom all the rest of this is for,
Rich and poor in a prison both cannot afford,
piles of fags, smiles under bags of hungover unrepentent wealth surplus a whore.
And all the while french revolutionary zeal,
awaits at the door with impressive appeal.

[kineneb]

44. it is most certainly is not accurate

I would guess somewhere around 20-25% right now. Too many people are one paycheck away from homelessness and hunger.

As for the ignorant who deny the poor amongst us, I would like to introduce Hubby and I. We are living on his disability payment, $1199/mo, which has to cover all of our expenses. If I earn anything, he will loose Medicaid, which covers his medications. He is on dialysis, which requires driving 50 miles round trip to the clinic. We are fortunate that our house payment is only $168/mo so we are allowed a few "luxuries" occasionally. But I can assure everyone that the sum is not much and there is nothing left at the end of the month. We are certainly not taking vacations or going very far from home; Hubby's dialysis schedule dictates our free days. Oh, and we are filing for Chapter 7 bankruptcy, since we will never be able to pay off our debts.

I just hope nothing breaks or needs repair. As it stands, I need some dental work, which will probably be put off as long as possible.