Venezuela cuts US airline flights

[cal04]

Venezuela is cutting flights by US airlines as relations between the two countries continue to deteriorate.
From 1 March, flights by Delta and Continental Airlines will be cut by up to 70%, and American Airlines flights will also be affected, officials say.

They accuse the US - which imposed a similar ban on Venezuela 10 years ago - of failing to give Venezuelan carriers equal access to American soil. Relations between the two countries have long been strained. They have hit new lows in recent weeks after a tit-for-tat expulsion row over allegations of spying, and a fierce exchange of words between US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.

Safety issue

Continental Airlines has been running a daily service from Venezuela to Houston, and weekly flights to New York. Delta Airlines currently flies daily to Atlanta, and American Airlines to Puerto Rico and Miami. Venezuela's National Aviation Institute said in a statement: "We have exhausted all avenues with the US aeronautical authority.
"We have been forced to reduce the frequency of flights of US airline companies from the US."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4747828.stm

[murray hill farm]

1. Guess Venezuela is no longer willing to play the game...

at least not at an imposed disadvantage...and why should they. Their advantage is a true leader...who knows underling position to the usa is not only unnecessary any longer, but a detriment to Venezuela. The usa keeps pushing him, and he will withold the oil...he has waiting buyers for it elsewhere. One day without Venezuelan oil will economically cripple the usa.

[peacetalksforall]

2. Try to catch Democracy Now - today's show. Rep Jose Serrano

talks about the what the Republicans are up to in regard to the Venezuela oil heating for the poor.

The TX rep is pimping hard.

Serrano offers insight that you will find interesting - the manipulations. The TX oil companies are unhappy - make no mistake.

[Judi Lynn]

5. They blew their chance when Democratic Congresspeople

contacted them for assistance in securing special prices for heating oil for the poor in their states, and the American companies told them to go drop dead BEFORE they turned to Venezuela for help.

So typical of Republicans. It would be fine with them if the poor in those states simply froze solid, unable to acquire the heating oil they need to get them through the winter. They weren't considering one cent's adjustment to assist the poor themselves, and want to raise hell because Venezuela did.

[rodeodance]

7. i saw it. very good segment.

[MadMaddie]

3. So American Companies are starting to be impacted....

by decisions by the * Cabal!!

I think that this is something that we are going to start seeing more and more....These companies are going to start screaming that they are losing money.....

Condi...isn't helping any since she has no negotiating skills...it's her way or the highway...

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

4. Hmm...

The US Federal Aviation Administration restricted Venezuelan carriers into the US in 1996 ruling that their airline safety procedures needed to be tightened.

Venezuelan officials say their safety standards have improved since then.

[Up2Late]

6. It looks like CNBC is spinning this as a U.S. action, I don't have the...

...sound up, but they had graphics like "Venezuela 'no fly zone'?" and several other inflammatory graphics like that. :eyes:

[rodeodance]

8. this is dangerous foolishness! (on the part of the US)

'no fly zone'?"

[Peace Patriot]

9. Free trade = U.S.-based transnationals get all the marbles.

(--nothing but global free piracy.)

Fair trade = you get something, they get something.
(--real freedom and equality)

There are plenty of other countries that Venezuela can trade with--for their oil, their airline business, the coal and gas they're planning to develop, and all other products (great indigenous music there). But I'm sorry that this may mean restrictions on OUR citizens traveling to Venezuela. We need to travel there to learn about, oh, democracy, transparent elections, fairness, equity, government of the people, by the people, for the people.

[napsi]

10. I'm sorry folks.......

I just can't seem to get my arms around and embrace Chavez. There's just something not right. I don't have any evidence or any real knowledge about him other than what I read or see on the news. My instincts are typically pretty good though........Flame away

[sleipnir]

11. I'm in the same boat. Something is a bit off key.

I get a bad vibe with him, I'm not sure what it is, but something is not right. I have ALWAYS found my first instinct to be overwhelmingly correct, and my instinct is that something is really not right with Chavez.

[ronnie624]

14. Me too!

Why would I want to actually learn something about anything when I can just go with my "gut" or my "instinct"? It's so much easier. Reading is just so hard, darn it!

[napsi]

16. Reading has nothing to do with it....

He hasn't won me over with anything he has done so far. What can you tell me that will change my mind? His affiliation with Castro is a concern for me. His tactics regarding the opposition (whether you agree with them or not) has been heavy handed at best. He may be a socialist savior and a "peoples" person but he has yet to show me anything that will make me swoon.

[ronnie624]

19. I have no interest in changing your mind.

For me, this website is an excellent source of information. If you are sincerely compelled by a desire for knowledge then you shall have no difficulty finding it.

Any thread about Venezuela will contain a considerable amount of information. But beware! The deceivers are always lurking, ready to spread their misinformation.

And you might, should the occasion arise, investigate a few threads about Cuba. They can be real eye-openers.

[Judi Lynn]

21. Excellent remarks. A grasp of US history with Latin American/Caribbean

countries is the only way someone can finally start filling in all the blank spaces where REAL knowledge should have been. So much has happened covertly, far away from inquiring eyes of American journalists, but very, very familiar to everyone ELSE in the hemisphere.

Some we've only learned through declassification of documents decades later. There's nothing like being informed 20 to 30 years after the fact, right? :eyes:

No doubt there will be more and more bright Americans finding out more and more as time goes by. They're the ones who don't believe everything they hear after grade school, being trained by their own intelligence, and by life experience, and CONSCIOUSNESS to invest a little time in thought, and in reading.

[Comadreja]

40. Perhaps, like Fidel..

His "fault" is a kind of paranoia brought on by his knowledge of what the CIA and their surrogates have done to others like him. He has seen that one must deal with the US with an iron fist if one is to survive. Who is your friend? Who may be bought off to betray you? The CIA has unlimited funds to bribe and to buy traitors. It is not a recipe for a perfectly balanced personality. JFK could have learned from Chavez and survived if he had been more like him.

[1932]

27. Exactly.

[Judi Lynn]

37. It's really so much more relaxing to sit back and swallow what the

propagandists tell us, isn't it?

I've noted that you, like so many of us, met a point of no return, in which you realized you didn't have the whole story and you started keeping your eyes open, and deliberately looking for answers yourself.

That's the way it happens when people start pulling out of the propaganda fog. It's a life-altering experience. I believe character also has a lot to do with it! :hi:

[ronnie624]

39. It is definitely a life altering experience

when one finally confronts the deceit that permeates our entire society. We are victimized from birth with lies by our government, the popular media and our school system. The brainwashing is very thorough.

Thankfully I have always had a voracious appetite for the written word and a thirst for understanding. I am very grateful to my father for his insight in keeping plenty of books on hand as I grew up and actively encouraging reading. But even with this sort of jump start it is a shock to discover the level of deception that has been perpetrated against us.

After having been raised to believe that the United States of America acts in the cause of freedom and stands for what is right and just, it is very difficult for many to accept the fact that the U.S. is responsible for some of the most horrific atrocities in history. Imagine how hard it must be to believe much of the death, destruction and misery visited on the people of other nations was wrought for the sake of profit. Acceptance of these facts demands a change in one's world view. For many that is a frightening prospect, and for others impossible.

Thank you Judi Lynn for your kind words, and I thank you as well for your tireless and determined effort to educate others. You are a valuable asset to this website and I owe you much.

Please forgive the lengthy delay in my reply. I work long hours, seven days a week so it is difficult to keep my responses current. I'm one of those lazy, shiftless leftists you see.

[shanti]

20. hmmmm

my instincts are pretty correct too, and i like the guy.

now what?

[GRLMGC]

12. I kinda agree

I think he has good intentions but I also think he's crazy. He was voted in, though, so even if his presence does not conform to our view of democracy, it is democracy nevertheless.

[manic expression]

13. No need to apologize

I'm just curious why you would feel this way.

"I don't have any evidence or any real knowledge about him other than what I read or see on the news."

What other evidence would you want? Also, much of the US news is decidedly pro-US and anti-Chavez (Venezuelan news is even more anti-Chavez), and even with this bias, we can see the truth of Venezuela today. This item, for instance, is nothing but asking for a fair playing field.

I'm really just curious about what wouldn't be "right".

[napsi]

15. It's just a feeling......

I find him to be abrasive and a little out here. Making friends with Castro may be some of it. I know I'm in the monority here with Castro but I've seen his misery first hand. I have 3 Cuban exiles for employees and they are adamant about their disdain for the man. These are people who risked everything to get to America.....with family still in Cuba. Flame away.....

[manic expression]

17. Well,

he's not "out there" for his people, and that's what matters.

On Cuba, I'll try to provide a different perspective. The "misery" in Cuba is economic. The Cuban economy is struggling because of the US-imposed sanctions against the island. ANY company that trades with Cuba is barred from trading with the US, and any idiot can tell you which is the more lucrative market (basically, it is extremely hard for Cuba to trade at all). This is precisely the reason why Cuba is as poor as it is, and this is precisely the reason Cubans leave for the US: economic opportunity. What is most amazing is the fact that Cuba maintains a world-class health system, one which surpasses the US in many statistical categories (infant mortality, for example). In addition, Cuba provides its people with food, shelter and other necessities.

OK, Cuban exiles? That's all you really need to know. The Cuban exile community is one of the most rabidly reactionary groups you can find. Not only have they disregarded the reality of Cuba, not only have they been implicated in subversive activities, not only have they practically barred any expression of contrary ideas in their realm of power, not only have they been driven by the interests of the former elitist oligarchy of Cuba...I could go on.

Cubans are guaranteed amnesty if they reach American soil. GUARANTEED. The US grants an extraordinary amount of visas to Cubans. However, with all of this incentive, relatively few Cubans actually attempt to get to the US. That says quite a lot.

Even though you didn't cite it, I thought I'd add that there is democracy and representation in Cuba.
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQDemocracy.html

Also, Cuba provided 20,000 trained doctors to work in Venezuela. How much does this health care cost a Venezuelan out of their own pocket? Nothing. This is quite a positive result of this friendship.

[reprobate]

23. What you fail to remember about Castro is the WE forced him into

the arms of the bear. When he came to NY to talk to the UN after taking over from Batista he wanted to talk to Eisenhower and become an ally of the US. But the money interests that run our government were pissed that he cost them all that money and invesstments in Cuba, so they told the State dept to tell Ike to tell Castro "NO!" So once again we see how the oligarchy that runs the "free" world can order governments around like slaves.

[Psephos]

22. I had the same feeling last year about Galloway

Heh heh, you should have seen the inferno of flames that post drew. But the last laugh is the sweetest laugh. Don't see very many Galloway fanboys here on DU these days... :-)

If you read the book "Blink" you'll feel a little better about trusting your instincts regarding Chavez. In short, making such decisions is what your gut is for. Chavez is a savvy political manipulator who knows what buttons to push for populists and those of a left orientation. It never ceases to amaze me how much negative information his supporters here can filter out without once realizing they're even doing it. They literally seem to see nothing wrong with the man. I'm not saying all the information is negative; some of what he does deserves applause. But for my money, he's a mixed bag at best, and seems to be trending down. His ego is inflating steadily, and that's always a bad sign. In the late 90s I thought he was maybe something special but not any longer.

That said, he's also the legitimate leader of Venezuela and I can respect that.

Anyway, I'm a patient person, and I'm happy to wait for my belly laugh regarding Chavez just as I did with Gorgeous George. :-)

Peace.

[bpilgrim]

29. the M$M & elite are good at eliciting the appropriate response

in their target audience... many fall for it repeatedly.

peace

[1932]

30. And from the other side of the aisle: it amazes me

how much the criticisms of Chavez rely on things like, "my gut tells me" and "my instincts are" without being supported by any facts whatsoever.

99% of the criticisms of Chavez are just like the ones in this thread: the faux(?) naive poster telling us what they feel in their gut, with a response saying, "me too" coupled with a fantasy characterization of the debate which imagines all these pevious fact-filled criticisms of Chavez.

Yeah, you better encourage the previous poter to trust his or her gut, because that's apparently the entire substance of the criticism of Chavez.

[ronnie624]

33. Perhaps you can start a thread

detailing the facts that provoked your "sweet" humor regarding George Galloway, but with links to verifiable sources of course.

[Comadreja]

41. Here's one

I love how he hammered Hitchins. My gut tells me Hitchens is a paid NeoCon lackey. His appearance yesterday on PBS reinforced that view.

[1932]

26. What does this story have to do with Chavez?

[bpilgrim]

28. goin with your gut & the programming - it's the american way, of course

Thank GORE, he 'invented' the INTERNETs ;->

peace

[WinkyDink]

32. Please. Compare his policies to Bush's and get back to me.

Rice hates it that he's for the poor, like, oh, I don't know, a CHRISTIAN?

[rman]

34. Official DU Hugo Chavez Right-Wing Falsehood Debunking Thread

(copy)

Official DU Hugo Chavez Right-Wing Falsehood Debunking Thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=311462

Edited on Fri Feb-03-06 10:37 AM by JohnnyCougar
Holy balls. I haven't been on here much lately, but I am shocked at the right-wing extremist propaganda floating around here about Hugo Chavez. DU is usually my safe-haven from this sort of propaganda, but to see Chavez baselessly trashed on here by so many has made me feel compelled to post this. I will try and identify the top falsehoods repeated about Chavez, and give some appropriate context to them that lay these "tyrant" and "oppressor" claims to rest. And the fact that Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch are being cited against Chavez irritates me on two levels. Firstly, these organizations put out reports on every country, and are almost wholly negative. Amnesty International's profile on France is about as long as the one about Venezuela. But I highly doubt France is considered a tyranny by anyone. Secondly, the reports ignore the context of the situation happening in Venezuela.

First of all, there are a few articles I suggest people read to get an understanding of Chavez's peaceful revolution in what once was a corrupt and oppressive state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050411/parenti
http://www.inthesetimes.com/issue/26/01/feature3.shtml

Secondly, if you read these articles (which I really, really recommend you read, because they are highly informative, well written and interesting) you will realize how desperate of a state Venezuela was in before Chavez took power. 80% of the country was poor, and 44% or so were officially in poverty (to the point where they couldn't afford proper diets). The former government was a band of corrupt cronies that languished of the profits of oil sales, and said basically "fuck the poor."

Chavez was the leader of a failed coup attempt in 1992 against the then scumbag of a president. But the coup failed, and Chavez took full responsibility, admitted his failure, and served his time in jail. The president whom he attempted to overthrow was impeached a year later.

Chavez gained a lot of supporters attempting that coup, and his base continued to believe in him. In 1998, Hugo ran for President and won. The poverty-stricken, starving, illiterate "brown skinned" Venezuelans supported Chavez in a landslide victory. Since then, Hugo has been trying to clean up a government that had run for decades on massive corruption. The middle and upper class in Venezuela hated him because he was "brown" and because of his fight against the kleptocracy they had grown rich with. The Venezuelan court was highly corrupt. The parliament was worse. The plutocracy used car bombs, coups and violent protests to try and undermine Chavez's democratically elected government. The right-wing television stations would run anti-Chavez propaganda uninterrupted for days at a time, using racist cartoons and outright lies to brainwash the middle class and the upper class into thinking Chavez was a tyrant. Right-wing publications in the US picked up on this propaganda and of course reprinted it here. Obviously, it still circulates.

Chavez has taken control of the Citgo oil company and used parts of its profits to start schools and free healthcare clinics for Venezuela's massive poor. This totally angered the right wing. But since Chavez has become president, Venezuela's poor are much healthier, millions of people can now read, and he is attempting to diversify Venezuela's economy. The people there love him. He is the first leader that actually cared about him in forever.

Here are some of the most prominent right-wing attacks on Hugo Chavez debunked.

Chavez is attempting to censor political speech and take control of the Venezuelan media.

After the corrupt right-wing media in Venezuela inspired a coup, kidnapping and later a ridiculous attempt to recall Chavez, as well as violent protests, Chavez made an anti-slander law to curb the false propaganda the private media was spreading. While no one, to my knowledge has been arrested for violating this law, it has worked to curb some of the anti-Chavez propaganda and racist remarks made in the private Venezuelan media. When asked in October if Chavez would actually arrest anybody with this law, he responded: "I am not going to accuse anyone because they insult me, I don’t care if they call me names, I don’t care what they say about me. Generally I do as Don Qixote said, if the dogs are barking it’s because we are working." Furthermore, there are many opposition media outlets in Venezuela, and only one state-owned outlet. Chavez could shut the opposition channels down, but he doesn't. He just limits the racist, riot-causing propaganda they usually encourage.

Chavez is packing the Venezuelan courts with cronies

This is true. But that's fine with me. The former judges were highly corrupt, and some were organizers of the coup. The Venezuelan courts were known for their widespread corruption before Chavez. These courts let off people that kidnapped Chavez at gunpoint during the coup attempt.

Chavez is hurting the economy

According to a press release in mid-2005, Venezuela has the fastest-growing economy in Latin America, with growth rates in the first two quarters of 7.5% and 11.1%, respectively. It had a 17.8% growth rate in 2004. The non-oil sectors grew at a faster pace than the oil sector, rising 8.7% and 12.1% in the first two quarters of 2005. Venezuela's economy is growing at the second-fastest rate in the world, topped only by China. Furthermore, Chavez's programs are wiping out illiteracy and providing healthcare to the poor for the first time ever. He has also been the first President to really enforce Venezuela's tax laws. The rich were getting away with cheating on their taxes time and time again. He has considerably raised the minimum wage. So basically, Hugo is allowing private enterprise to flourish (despite requiring them to follow tax laws) and still using money to support the poor. What he has already done has been nothing but a victory for human rights in Venezuela. Millions upon millions of people now have hope and health that would have never had it otherwise. But despite this, false right-wing anti-Chavez propaganda continues to circulate around the echo chamber...even on DU.

What Chavez has done is inspire a popular revolution with little to no violence at all, completely overthrowing a horrendously corrupt government in Venezuela and liberating masses of nearly starving poor. Instead of leading by force like he did in 1992, this time the revolution worked.

But I can say one more thing for sure: If I were next to Hugo Chavez, I would hug him, too!

If you know of more false propaganda being spread about Chavez, please debunk it below! I probably missed some things.

[Judi Lynn]

18. Airlines take role in talks

Feb. 24, 2006, 8:16PM
Airlines take role in talks
Three carriers hope to resolve dispute limiting flights between U.S., Venezuela

By SHANNON BUGGS and JOHN OTIS
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

Three U.S. airlines are helping to broker talks in Caracas between the U.S. and Venezuelan governments to prevent the latest escalation in the war of words, economics and symbolic gestures between the two nations from disrupting air travel.

The South American nation has ordered a halt or reduction beginning March 1 in the number of flights into and out of the country by Continental, Delta and American airlines as a protest against a decade-old restriction on the access of Venezuelan carriers to U.S. destinations.

"We're working to resolve this serious dispute," said U.S. State Department spokesman Noel Clay. "If Venezuela proceeds with its announced plans, we will consider options for an appropriate response, but we will not speculate about what might happen at this time."
(snip)

"The flight schedule remains intact and, since we're remaining hopeful that this will be resolved between now and the first, we have no reason to cancel flights," Continental spokesman Dave Messing said.
(snip/...)

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/3684185.html

[rfkrfk]

24. fewer jobs for airline scabs

more fuel for working taxpayers

tax on jet fuel for international flight is zero,
not one penny

uneconomic flights being cancelled

[1932]

25. So, the administration that gave away billions to US airlines won't

make them have to compete with foregin airlines?

I'm shocked.

[goforit]

31. How I wanted to travel that beautiful country.....Oh well.

Chavez is now officially pissed!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

35. Damn.

Now the CIA will have to helicopter in.

That costs me and you.

[VegasWolf]

36. $3.00/gallon for gas will look like a steal in 3 months! nt

[Judi Lynn]

38. Venezuela delays US flight curbs for more talks

Venezuela delays US flight curbs for more talks
Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:55 PM ET

By Patrick Markey

CARACAS, Venezuela (Reuters) - Venezuela has delayed a suspension of some U.S. passenger and cargo flights until March 30 while the government holds talks with U.S. carriers over the restrictions, authorities said on Saturday.

Venezuela said this week it would halt Delta Air Lines (DALRQ.PK: Quote, Profile, Research) and Continental Airlines (CAL.N: Quote, Profile, Research) flights and restrict flights by American Airlines (AMR.N: Quote, Profile, Research) effective March 1 as it demanded Washington lift restrictions placed on Venezuelan carriers a decade ago.

"The date was extended to March 30 to allow the proper authorities to communicate and guarantee fair opportunities in air operations for both Venezuelan and U.S. carriers," Venezuela's INAC aviation authority said in a statement.

INAC said Venezuelan officials held talks on Friday with Delta, Continental, American and other carriers over the decision it says was in response to restrictions placed on Venezuela in 1995 by the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration.
(snip/...)

http://today.reuters.com/business/newsarticle.aspx?type=ousiv&storyID=2006-02-25T205547Z_01_N25412759_RTRIDST_0_BUSINESSPRO-AIRLINES-VENEZUELA-USA-DC.XML