America's younger workers losing ground on income

[rodeodance]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20060227/ts_csm/agenerations;_ylt=AskdenLnXIp0AvbljDdFB46s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-
America's younger workers losing ground on income

By Mark Trumbull, Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor Mon Feb 27, 3:00 AM ET

In the race to get ahead economically, America's young workers are falling behind.
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A new survey shows that median incomes fell for householders under 45, even as they rose for older ones, between 2001 and 2004.

Income fell 8 percent, adjusted for inflation, for those under 35 and 9 percent for those aged 35 to 44. The numbers add new weight to longstanding concerns about whether younger generations of Americans will achieve living standards that are better - or at least equal to - those of their parents.

"It's a scary question," says Carrie Brown, who runs the Blue Frog Bakery in Boston. She says that for now, at least, she's not keeping pace. And if she and her husband have children, she says she's not sure if her children will enjoy the same lifestyle she did while growing up.

Her concern is shared by many Americans who follow the baby-boom generation. One often-voiced worry is about generational fairness in tax burdens, given the prospect of a soaring federal tab in coming decades for Medicare and
Social Security as the number of elderly Americans rises.

[marmar]

1. Translation: Fellow Gen-Xers and Gen Y-ers...

We are fucked. :(

[tsuki]

37. Notice how the Baby Boomers are always blamed, and not

the corporative give-aways to help outsourcing, the tax-breaks for the super-wealthy? Gee, wonder why?

[Zomby Woof]

51. That is because...

The boomers make up the vast majority of the lobbyists, legislators, and the people in the White House itself, right up to the Oval Office Occupant-In-Chief, all of whom MAKE THOSE THINGS HAPPEN.

And the majority of CEO's? Boomers.

The judges who rule in their favor? Boomers.

The compliant media which ignores these inconvenient facts? Boomers.

You all are blamed because you all make those very things happen.

The rest of us "slacker Xers" could see this coming since at LEAST the last Bush was in power.

[HughBeaumont]

2. "Pull yourselves up by your bootstraps! Rrrrrarr!"

"Crybabies! Punks! Break out the WAAAAAAAAmbulance! You just need to learn to budget! You think you're the only ones who had to deal with adversity? Rrrrarrr! "

A recent batch of LTTEs in the Plain Dealer criticized Tamara Draut's new book Strapped, citing many of the Repuke talking points listed above, yet I doubt that many of them would want to actually READ how hard it is to even start out nowadays. Starter homes didn't used to cost over 300 grand. The tax burden on the middle class didn't used to be 41 percent when all is said and done. College didn't used to be so exorbitantly priced or time consuming.

[Nutmegger]

52. Thanks for this - I'm going to check out the book. [nt]

[Coastie for Truth]

3. Krugman - Graduates Versus Oligarchs, NY Times 2/27/06 - read it and weep

It's even worse --

<<<SNIP>>>

But Mr. Bernanke did stumble at one point. Responding to a question from Representative Barney Frank about income inequality, he declared that "the most important factor" in rising inequality "is the rising skill premium, the increased return to education."

That's a fundamental misreading of what's happening to American society. What we're seeing isn't the rise of a fairly broad class of knowledge workers. Instead, we're seeing the rise of a narrow oligarchy: income and wealth are becoming increasingly concentrated in the hands of a small, privileged elite.

I think of Mr. Bernanke's position, which one hears all the time, as the 80-20 fallacy. It's the notion that the winners in our increasingly unequal society are a fairly large group — that the 20 percent or so of American workers who have the skills to take advantage of new technology and globalization are pulling away from the 80 percent who don't have these skills.

The truth is quite different. Highly educated workers have done better than those with less education, but a college degree has hardly been a ticket to big income gains. The 2006 Economic Report of the President tells us that the real earnings of college graduates actually fell more than 5 percent between 2000 and 2004. Over the longer stretch from 1975 to 2004 the average earnings of college graduates rose, but by less than 1 percent per year.

So who are the winners from rising inequality? It's not the top 20 percent, or even the top 10 percent. The big gains have gone to a much smaller, much richer group than that.


<<<SNIP>>>

[lovuian]

25. Americans need to stick up for ourselves and demand

we get a better quality of life than have it taken away from us but rich men who are just plain greedy!!!

[lagavulin]

47. Hey, great idea! So here's some suggestions about how to do that...

How about Gen-X and Gen-Y stop supporting the system that is squeezing the American people dry?...and which is causing our entire way of life to fall over the tipping point?

How about we work to become the first generation to actually really "drop out" of this suicidal culture?

The single best step if we wanted to initiate such a New American Revolution is to strike at the sick heart of the system itself: pay off all your debt--and then learn to HATE debt of any kind, in the same way our grandparents and great-grandparents knew to do. Debt is how you buy your ticket into a system of work-enslavement (and if that statement seems too "reactionary" for you, at least try to keep it firmly in mind....I promise you, one day soon you will understand it in a very real way). Mortgages and borrowing were a decent and manageable scheme during an economic system that was growing, but in one that has topped and starting to unravel they will bury people and destroy their lives more quickly than you could ever imagine.

Then perhaps we might want to stop all the boo-hooing and blaming and start buying only locally from independent business people in our community (instead of from corporations). We could subscribe to Community Supported Agriculture, buy from farmers markets, or at least from legitimate food co-ops.

Maybe we could go on self-imposed crash consumer-diets? Begin disciplining ourselves to not have to buy every little gee-gaw and trinket that catches our fancy. At the very least we'll be conditioning ourselves now for what we're going to have to do eventually anyway.

Then, if we can discover that it's not only possible but perhaps even cool to live quite happily on less income than we were told we needed, we could actively seek to create our own businesses (despite how very difficult that has become), and not just bury our anger as we schlep into our corporate job every day.

Nobody hates us for our freedoms...but many people DO hate us because we so blindly believe we don't need to restrain ourselves.

[sui generis]

4. yup - all your jobs are belong to the boomers

forever.

The economic reality though hasn't changed. Young 'uns get paid less because they have less experience. Really expensive old timers get crowded out of the market by a "sweet spot" of young talent not getting paid as much as someone with experience. I don't know if it will offset anything in the white collar world, but I suspect that 70 and 80 year olds have a harder time working 60 and 70 hours weeks than us brats, and that's the other thing employers do to keep costs down -- 130% utilization.

You want to fix the economy and take care of our seniors? Stop the dumbfuck wars.

When we have a big enough and well informed enough gerontocracy, anything that takes money away from spending on their complicated healthcare will be frowned upon, and most especially military budgets.

[LiberalEsto]

6. Actually boomers are seeing their jobs outsourced

I'm a boomer and I've had a hard time for years finding full time work in my field. I've seen that many companies would rather hire a young person with little experience, and pay them a smaller salary, and reduced benefits, than hire people my age(53)and risk having more claims on their group health policy.

This is not a war between baby boomers and Generation X and other generations. If there is economic warfare going on, it's between working Americans and the corporate elite. We are all in the same boat. We shouldn't allow ourselves to be divided by generational conflict.

[sui generis]

8. you old fogie!

But it would be silly not to recognize that retiring boomers are a growing political bloc who will vote their own interests first, as it should be. I personally think we'll all benefit when that happens.

Plus I am all for getting rid of private health insurance altogether (in favor of universal health). Once you take that out of the equation a lot of the playing field gets leveled.

[Coastie for Truth]

27. Wal Mart - and the Manufacturing Sector

will not take the plunge and push for Universal, Single Payer Health Insurance. Until they do, we will continue to see a Wal-Martization/off-shoring/out-sourcing of jobs.

[sam sarrha]

5. us older guys are doing worse.. i got fired for a medical condition that

didn't not bother me anywhere else other than the hole they transfered me to after complaining about the black crew harassing me with threats and constant violence and bullying, the plant was about 95% black, i found out why..

i am new to the south.. all i asked for was to send the 'helper' they sent me ...back to where ever he came from, he refused to do 'ANYTHING' and followed me around bullying and threatening me, pushing and shoving me, throwing boards at me from behind hard enough to kill me.. sabotaging my line... he pushed a pile of wood over on me in a danger area and broke a rib.

now i cant get a job anywhere.. all i said was i was too tall 6'6" to work in the hole they put me in, the motion i was limited to hurt my shoulder. they immediately put me on medical leave and told me i had to bring a medical release from a doctor or have surgery to fix it.. within 30 day.. then they terminated me. but continued to hire new people for other jobs in a union shop where i had seniority.. i tried to join the Union but they wouldn't let me at least they never returned my call and i could never get in touch with the stewards. the mentally disturbed guy that did most of the harrassing had a long history of being irrational and refusing to do any of the several jobs he had been assigned

[area51]

35. I'm sorry this happened to you, Sam. (n/t)

[brentspeak]

41. That's outrageous

If only you could get somebody to help you on this - a lawyer, someone with pull within the union, the state labor people -- anybody.

[phusion]

7. My advice to fellow young workers: Drop off the grid

Try to build your own self-sustaining housing and food solutions. Besides student loans (which you should be cautious about), try not to bury yourself in extraneous debt of any kind. You can get by with $3k-$5k used cars just as well as that $30,000 new car. Forget trying to impress others with all the crap that you can accumulate. That is your life energy that you are wasting...Don't be so careless about it! Refuse to be wage slaves!

[meganmonkey]

20. That's exactly what mistermonkey and I are trying to do

the biggest hurdle is trying to sell his house first - it isn't capable of being what we need, and it will take way too long to pay for it anyway...

But meanwhile, we are figuring out where we can buy some land, how to do solar and geothermal...I am lucky enough to have a job that I love, but he is totally playing wage-slave right now and it sucks!!! I think we'll have it all worked out within a couple years. GET ME OFF THAT GRID! *fingerscrossed*

[AnneD]

23. When you do a loan for housing...

Do a 15 yr fixed. Saves you tons in interest, you own it faster, AND it is not much more a month than a 30yr fixed. Start now looking at what something will cost you in total-with the loan interest. That makes it really easy to say no. That 'interest' saved is money in your pocket...Learn from us geezers that have made those mistakes.

[meganmonkey]

24. Between selling his house

and some other $$ saved, we are hoping we will barely need to get a loan - between the 2 of us it will be pretty quick to pay off. We are planning to build a quonset hut which will be very cheap, and we will do most of the labor (he can do carpentry, electric, among other things...). We live pretty simply, no fancy electronics or cars or clothes.

I can't wait. I live in a suburbia nightmare right now, the last place I pictured myself living!!!

Thanks for the advice, I am also lucky to have a mom who can answer all my questions (without telling me what to do, although I usually do what she suggests anyway LOL).

Debt is NOT a good idea!

[AnneD]

30. Good for you....

Even at my age, I still listen to my Mom. She gives great advice too.

[Wcross]

39. Meganmonkey....

Do you plan on staying in Michigan? I would reconsider the quonset hut idea due to the insulation factor. There are so many other options such as rammed earth, strawbale, earth-sheltered and passive solar. Do you subscribe to mother earth news? M.E.N is a great source for information in your quest for self sufficiency.
I am in the process of trying to do what you are. I have my land and currently live in the small house that was on it when I purchased it. I am now in the planning stages for building the new house. I am leaning toward this design of passive solar house.
http://www.sunplans.com/html/houseDisplay.php3?house=Windy_Corner&page=front_elevation

I am planning on a geo-thermal heating/cooling system, a solar hot water system and as many solar panels as I can fit on the south side of the home. I am also planning on a 20 x 30 shop/garage with a southern orientation for more solar panel space on the roof. I plan on using batteries to store power but also remain connected to the grid to sell back any excess power.
If you plan on staying in Michigan you would probably be able to use windmills (depending on the average wind speed). Wind power is much cheaper than solar and you could realistically be totally off grid.

I agree with you on living in suburbia. Near where I work there was a cotton farm. The land prices became too high for the farmer to resist selling out to developers. They named the subdivision "Blackman Farms" (its in a community named Blackman), every time I drive by the place I always think to myself they should have named it "People farm". The houses are packed in as close as they could get them and it really does look like a place to store people when they aren't working.

Best of luck to you and Mrmonkey on your endeavor! I hope you are able to achieve your goals.

[lagavulin]

48. Wcross - it sounds like you've really got your house in order...

I've come to exactly the same conclusions for my own family.

We're putting our city home up for sale in a couple months (crossing our fingers that this Iran foolishness is all just the chest-hair bluster of underdeveloped little boys), and by the end of summer we're hoping to have 10-20 acres of land in a good rural community we've identified. Then I'll be building/renovating exactly the same features you mentioned into our home there. So I'm really very grateful for the link to Sun Plans--I think it'll be a world of help, if only for browsing and brainstorming.

The theme for the next couple decades is Self-Reliance, without any doubt. The real concern tho' is that that theme might just come down on us hard in just the next couple years...perhaps even the next couple months...

[Wcross]

53. Are you planning on Minnesota land?

http://www.awea.org/default.htm
This link is for wind power, they have a link to a map of average speeds.

I truly believe that it will pay to be self sufficient in the coming years. Not only providing as much of your own power as possible but also your own food. We keep hearing about possible pan-demics and disaster. The insane foreign policies of our government has the whole world pissed off at us. We are one invasion away from pushing the world too far and suffering for it economically. I have just ordered a six months supply of mountain house foods because of the way things look. I hope to add more as money allows. (at least the six months will get me through a winter)

http://www.motherearthnews.com/forums/
This is a great place to start asking questions, lots of informed people on the forum.

[lagavulin]

55. SW Wisconsin actually. And I certainly want to put in wind power...

...to supplement some modest PV panels. This area of the midwest gets long periods of overcast clouds during the middle of winter.

Heating is crucial here, so I want my home to have a good passive solar design, ground source heat-pump running primarily on PV/wind power, and even a wood-burning stove for atmosphere and worst-case purposes. My wife has learned a great deal about traditional food preparation through a fantastic group called the Weston A. Price foundation, and we plan to put in a root cellar as well for food storage. We'll garden as much as possible, but we like the area because it has a fantastic organic farm community (not to mention Waldorf schooling, farmers market, state-of-the-art alternative energies and building organizations, and strong artistic support).

Peak Oil may be glamorous, but it's by no means the only critical crisis modern civilization is facing. No person is an island, but by adopting as self-reliant a lifestyle as possible in a like-minded (and open-minded) community of people I'm confident you can create a very good buffer between yourself and an American society that is already showing signs of collapse (oops--just in case you're not aware that our civilization is about to collapse, ignore everything I'm saying...I'm just some crazy, dishevelled doomsayer with a keyboard and an internet connection...nothing to see here...keep your eyes averted and walk on by...).

Thanks for asking!

[Wcross]

56. Wind power would be the way to go.

Solar would be good for water heating and the passive solar house is a big help in any climate. I am going to have to do it right in my climate as I spend as much to cool my home as to heat it. Off grid with green energy sources is what I am working towards. I really hate that I am paying my utility supplier to burn coal so I can take a shower. If you go rural say goodbye to broadband internet. The best you can do is satalite (wildblue is the best deal/system), don't even think of dialup, the best my line could do was 24kbps. I now have a 1.5mbps connection thanks to wildblue.
I share your concerns about the way our society is headed. It seems as if we are on a sinking ship.

[Village Idiot]

9. a lot of us "old bastards" are falling behind, too!

[BiggJawn]

12. Amen.

The ones who are getting decent jobs right out of college now are STARTING at where I am after 30+ years in the labour force. Unless they're Pharmacists, then they're getting twice what I make.

And my annual "increases", when "adjusted for inflation" are actually net LOSSES.

So, I hear ya young puppies when you say "Hurry up and DIE, Old Man, so I can have your JOB!" and I LAUGH.

[AnneD]

10. Well kids,

this isn't the economy I though we'd leave you kids (it was all peachy when Clinton was in office). Now days they want you educate but want to pay you India offshore wages. It doen't matter how well you are educated either, they'll drop you for someone cheaper. And loyality or pensions...thing of the past. My advice...get a cost effective education (no Master's in Social Work). If possible, always be on the lookout for your own business opportunity. Stay out of debt (except for a house), credit cards will kill you. SAVE SAVE SAVE early and often for your retirement. We upped our deductions to keep Social Security solvent for us and not be a burden to you, and look what those assholes have done-pissed it away. Al Gore was right, the surplus should have been in a locked box. And parents, always remember to give with a warm hand. It was hard to get started when we were young, it is double tough now.

[Indy_Dem_Defender]

11. A couple of factors

Young People want to many material things they simply don't need, and this is coming from someone 25 years old. I can't even count how many people I know around my age who have nicer cars and nicer house than their parents have ever owned in their lives, you can't have it all overnight.

On the other side of the spectrum is young people having a disadvantage of having college loans to pay for to get a decent job, to where a lot of their parents didn't need one to make a honest living. I mean it's terrible for anyone who didn't have assistance in paying for college, their already starting out in life at an extreme disadvantage being in the red from the begining.

I'll probably get flamed for this on here, but I don't feel bad at all for anyone who loses a very good paying job who are in their 40-50's, they seriously should of saved some of their income. My view is probably slanted on this topic from learning that my old man recently lost his job, here's a 54 year old conservative christian repuke who made 120K a year and never paid a dime of child support for his 2 kids; who's running around wanting people to feel sorry for him because he got downsized and he's running out of money. I just say karma is great :rofl:

[senaca]

13. 40-50 demographic

There are many in this demographic who are in their "sandwich years". Particularly when it's harder and harder for their parent's to keep up with their medications, energy bills, etc; those in their 40's and 50's are helping out. Maybe their parents can no longer stay in their own homes and their children are taking care of them. These are the people who are, for the most part, also, supporting their children so that they can acheive their dreams.

I'm sorry for your experience, however, your experience is not the norm.

[LiberalEsto]

14. I'm in my 50s, with NO savings

Haven't worked in my career field (journalism) for years. Two kids in college. House furnished almost entirely from garage sales - except for a bedroom set and a diningroom table purchased in 1979 when I was part of a two-income, no-kids couple. Haven't been able to afford new furniture ever since.

I still buy my clothes at thrift shops and garage sales. The only time I ever had nice new clothes was during a brief period of two-income, no-kids.

Why? Partly the economy, partly because I elected to stay home with my kids and work only part time. I didn't realize there wouldn't be a job for me when I wanted to go back full time. My daughters, now 19 and 22, tell me they're glad I stayed home with them, shlepped them to swim lessons and scouts, and had the whole neighborhood hanging out at our place.

If I'd stayed at work at the major metro daily paper where I worked, I'd have plenty saved. I would have been able to spare my kids most of their college loans. I'd have nice clothes, nice furniture, a nicer house than our tiny rambler. We'd have had great vacations to faraway places.

I don't know if I did wrong, or what. Maybe I was a fool to think there would be a fulltime job waiting for me when my kids were older.

[shrike]

21. Sadly, a lot of women are having your experience

I'm not saying you made the wrong choice. But, an older woman I spoke with years ago told me, "If you get off the train, you're not going to get back on the same car you left." And that is true.
I see young women who presently have this notion: that they'll take off 10 years or so to be with the kids, and then, in their 40s, pick up where they left off.

You might be interested in a chapter of a book I just read, "The Working Poor." One of the women profiled was poor by choice. She led a very comfortable, upper-middle class existence until her husband divorced her.
She received $10,000 a year in child support, and decided she would live on that and only take freelance jobs so she could stay home with her children. The only jobs available to her (she was a homemaker) were minimum wage, long-houred jobs that would have taken her away from her kids.
Her family criticized her endlessly. They even accused her of gaming the system because she used her low income level to get private school scholarships for her kids.
Well, her son graduated from Dartmouth and her daughter went on to study voice at the New England Conservatory of Music. Think she made the right choice?

[InkAddict]

31. A tough balancing act to be sure, even w/two incomes!

Even if one had managed to continue working in the field in which one was educated, that would not have been a guarantee that all that nice stuff would follow....we've tried the balancing act, staying home w/the infants, working PT/opposite hours during the children's school years, using up the GI school benefits, using savings to go back to school, working FT, but the mergers, downsizing, outsourcing, THE LIES AND THE THIEVERY, began for us in the late '80s and the ball has just continued to roll downhill.

This particular wicked Admin keeps closing off options that would help middle-to-lower-class people achieve fiscal, physical/mental health. I'm no fool, and the poor we'll always have with us because some will always make BAD life choices. However, for those of us who made sacrifices for those "family values," to see that our elderly parents and children were cared for to the best of our ability and efforts, even if we'd manage to save, they're busy finding ways to steal it and our national security. After they've given that away and stolen all our savings, they raise the bar up over our children's heads. I'm truly panicked thinking of the future. One paycheck's planning ahead is the longest we'll be looking for a long, long time. I'm just catching on to the fact that the older one gets, the faster time flies, so I'm guessing it won't seem so long until we're cast up on those oxcarts and carried off in spite of our children's best efforts.

[LiberalEsto]

32. Our prescription copays have risen up to 600% in 5 years

Gas, oil, electricity, telephone bills, property taxes, college tuitions (now there's a lulu of a scam), health insurance, prescription drugs.

Thanks, George!

[Indy_Dem_Defender]

36. I don't want to offend

people more in the 40/50 year old demographic, so I'd like to make what I want to clearer so people know what I mean, I just have ran into a number of people (mostly males)the last few years since Bushshit has been in office that have lost their jobs to downsize, outsourcing yada yada. Some of these people had really good jobs (60k-150k a year) where they should of saved but they didn't and have nothing to show for it. I figure a good chunk of them are a republicans, I'm just left sratching my head when they say they have to have X Amount to live on when my mother and step-father raised my sister and I on between a 1/3 to 1/2 half of what these people make and we got by and I know there are people who get by on even less income. It's just real irritating to hear people like this with their sob stories, I guess I'm just pure evil to laugh at them knowing they now have to live in a new reality in life that will do them good, I always say your never to old to learn something new and hopefully these people will learn from this hard life lesson.

[spooky3]

38. I'm sorry for the situation imposed on you but

please don't fall into the Rethug trap of believing that life is fair, so if you're rich and keep your job, it's strictly because you're good, you're smart, and that you've done the right things in your life. It's just not true that everyone gets what's coming to them, good or bad. The reality is that, yes, in many cases people do deserve their fates, such as the people in your examples who should have saved, etc. But in many cases, bad luck or other circumstances play as big a role or other role. Some people face really awful discrimination at work, and fighting it is really costly. Others get struck with cancer or other debilitating illnesses. Others have children who are disabled. Others work hard to put themselves through school so they can work in a high paying industry, only to have their jobs outsourced to India. Many of them did volunteer work, raised good families and contributed a lot of money to charity all their lives.

Democrats are compassionate when people deserve compassion.

[Megahurtz]

46. Good Post!

That explains a lot that many need to understand.:)

[spooky3]

57. thanks!

[AnneD]

28. Don't paint us all with the same brush...

I have worked hard all my life and saved every chance I could. I lost all my savings and my job when the oil industry collapsed in the mid 80's. It took all my retirement and then some to retool (Nursing). Asshole hubby left me and infant daughter in the middle of all of this. I had to take jerk husband to court for child support (should have gotten the 5 yrs back support but wanted him to participate in her life with a fresh start).

Well, got remarried (after 13 yrs of being a single Mom) and ex (who never worked on a job longer than a 2yrs in his adult life and has lived with his parents all but 2 yrs) took me to court and WON custody (Mom says they didn't like dark skinned Indian Hubby). I now have to pay almost 1/2 of my meager salary in support+ other court ordered things (music lessons, etc). I had to stop ANY retirement funding just to pay bills. Ex still lives at home, with daughter and his elderly Mom is taking care of them and he pays little of nothing to his Mom. I told my daughter flat out that I would have NO money for her college (her support is over $800 a month and after all is said and done I take home under 2000 on my Public School Nurse salary). Once she turns 18 and I no longer have to pay support, all of that will have to go for retirement savings and maybe I can dream about owning my own place like a town home or condo(instead of living in a cheap crime ridden apt complex I have to live in now).

I was saving a bit (50-150 per month)in a mutual fund (that I hoped to borrow against for her college) but lost almost 1/4 when the dot com bubble burst. The only thing going for me has been the fact that I have a teachers retirement pension (defined benefit). Hubby has one too. If not for that, it would be far more disastrous for us.

So, even being responsible and doing what is right is no guarantee that things will turn out right. I saved all of my adult life, but life events and legal fees (for 2 custody fights) took what little I had. It is the part of your post (that you said would get you flamed) that I take some offense to and yes your view is slanted by your experience, but I won't seriously flame. I just want you to see the other side of the coin. You can do the right thing and still be burned.

I love my daughter but her youthful selfishness and ex's greed have forced me into the position I will be in until she is 18 (just 2 more years praise God). The money I would have saved for her schooling is being pissed away. I love her, gave her the best I could, and will try to do what I can when I can, but she will be pretty much on her own for college.

The up side to all of this is...Hubby and I took the hardest hits a marriage can take, and we are still together (3 years and going strong). We are looking forward and planning our retirement (we are eligible at 57 and we are 51 now) and want to start our own businesses in our 'semi' retirement. We count our blessing every day. What makes us happy is not big ticket items bought to impress people we don't like. We live simply (as below our means as possible) and enjoy our friends, music, good food, and doing good works. And my ex....I can't wait until he hits retirement. His SS will be pitiful if at all as he has worked very little in his life. He will inherit 1/3 of a small estate, and at the rate he's going, his daughter may not be talking to him in his later years (he is such a mooch and slacker). Yeh, karma can be a bitch.

[LiberalEsto]

33. That's really awful

Your ex sounds like a total swine.

I hope everything works out for you.

[AnneD]

34. Yeh...

he is.

Time will tell if it works out. I dare not take a higher paying job or buy a house because he would take me to court in a heartbeat. As soon as I can, I will go to work at a teaching hospital (on the state teachers pension plan also) and really boost my retirement AND income.

I believe in Karma. I also believe that sometimes, when things don't work out as you think they should, there is a reason. You may not understand why (our understanding and time table is not God's understanding or time table). It was rough and I don't know who was shocked more-myself or the numerous friends that came to testify on my behalf. But they have helped me though the rough patches, and hell, I am a true blue Texas gal-we have to be tough.

I strongly feel that I will have the last laugh.

[0rganism]

15. ...but don't be tryin' to file bankruptcy!

No sirreebob, can't have that, no debt protections for you. You have to incorporate first. THEN you can file for bankruptcy.

[MrPrax]

16. Maybe the kids can turn to TV

for comfort...

Shows like Dr. Phil's new reality show--Moochers!!

Maybe Dr. Phil pays more:

We Need Moochers For A New TV Show!
Reply to: [e-mail]
Date: 2006-02-16, 7:25PM PST


Casting freeloading friends or relatives for a new reality show. Is this person at home all day long - eating, sleeping, and not contributing to the household? Does this person make excuses for not working or going to school? Has he or she been couch-camping for several months or years?

A new CBS reality series, "Moochers", is looking to help! The show will assist family and friends to get rid of carrer leaches that have been visiting far too long.

For information on being a part of the show, please submit your Moocher story, photo, and include ages of the moocher and moochee. Also include contact inforamtion along with your city and state. No drugs or incarceration stories and No actors.

http://www.craigslist.org/sfc/tlg/134572872.html

[SoCalDem]

17. It's all part of the plan to pit one generation against the other

Keep the "kids of boomers" broke, and it will be easier to get them to vote to cut funding for services for their parents. The rub is that this generation is still largely dependent on the boomner-parents, who are also caring for THEIR parents..

Talk about a squeeze play:(

My mother had lost BOTH parents by the time she was 32..she inherited the home she lived in, 3 duplexes and a single family rental home. She had a free and clear place to live and income at 32 yrs of age, and no elderly parents to care for..

It's not uncommon these days to see 60 yr old people still caring for their parent(s).. These 70 yr olds are often still working because they HAVE to..they may also still have a 30-something living with them along with a few grandkids.

Just WHEN and how are boomers supposed to retire?

People forget that just as we moved into our adult years, St.Ronnie of Reagan put us behind the 8-ball by removing most of the things we used to be able to deduct at tax time, and put a huge social security burden on us (to PRE-pay our own benefits and to make sure the "greatest generation" were well looked after..

So now as we move into our later years, they government is making sure that they have a sure way to reneg on promises made.

[senaca]

22. McGovern's essay on Social Security and the Golden Age

His chapter on partnership of the young and old gives me alot of hope for the future. He states that Gen Y may just be the next "Greatest Generation" In the chapter he puts forth ways in which Gen Y and their grandparents may work together. He sources the "Millennial Rising: the Next Generation" It's worth a read.

[AnneD]

29. I have read excerpts

and it does give me some hope for our collective futures (my daughter is a Y and has been learning fast).....

[RawMaterials]

42. Its called the echo-boomers

then children of the baby boomers, their is something like 74 million of them they are just starting to get into college right now.
gen y was small but the echo's are going to shape this country like no other. Think 60's , its just going to take about 7-14 more years till they start to figure it out.

[AnneD]

45. I took my daughter to Camp Casey last August....

at 16 she already has it figured out. What shocked her the most was 1) the vitriolic hatred of the RW (potty mouths does not even begin to describe the way they talked to little old ladies that could be their Moms or Grandmothers) and 2) protesters were not dirty incoherent crazies as seen on TV. She does not trust this government, believes none of what she hears and half of what she see, and can't wait to cast her first vote in '08. It was the best road trip we ever took. It was the summer of 67 (Summer of Love) but with meaning.

[RawMaterials]

43. Just read some of the first chapter

wonder if they should call it the day-care generation.

[Orsino]

18. *All* Workers Losing Ground...

...supporting the executive class.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

19. The Executive Class is dreamy.

You have to admit that.

[livvy]

26. Krugman's Op-Ed today was excellent.

From today, an amazing group of numbers:

"A new research paper by Ian Dew-Becker and Robert Gordon of Northwestern University, "Where Did the Productivity Growth Go?," gives the details. Between 1972 and 2001 the wage and salary income of Americans at the 90th percentile of the income distribution rose only 34 percent, or about 1 percent per year. So being in the top 10 percent of the income distribution, like being a college graduate, wasn't a ticket to big income gains.

But income at the 99th percentile rose 87 percent; income at the 99.9th percentile rose 181 percent; and income at the 99.99th percentile rose 497 percent. No, that's not a misprint.

Just to give you a sense of who we're talking about: the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center estimates that this year the 99th percentile will correspond to an income of $402,306, and the 99.9th percentile to an income of $1,672,726. The center doesn't give a number for the 99.99th percentile, but it's probably well over $6 million a year."

Truthout has the whole thing posted here:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/022706Z.shtml

[DarkTirade]

40. Tell me about it.

Although in my case, most of my financial woes didn't come from my age, but more from my original financial woes. Haven't finished college for money reasons, therefore can't get a decent job.

[hedgehog]

44. I was talking to my kids about this the other day

You've all been brainwashed by smiling Ronald Reagan into thinking you're supposed to do it all yourself. It's time to stand up together and demand a government of the people, by the people, for the people. Who decided that we needed to spend all our money on defense? Why can't we spend it all on health care and education? It's our money, isn't it? Just who are we defending ourselves from? When I went to college, annual in-state tuition at a state university was $500! You could work a summer job, go to school and graduate with NO DEBT! We were in the middle of a cold war and a hot war, and still could manage to do that. Find a candidate and make it work. That's what this board should be about, not a bunch of sob stories!

[lagavulin]

49. Hedgehog -- what part of Oligarchy don't you understand? n/t

[hedgehog]

50. Quit yer whining

I've seen enough digs at the 101st Fighting Keyboarders on the right, but it's about time for the people on the left to get together and get rolling. My only objection to marijuana has been the suspicion that it mellowed out too many people who should have been fighting.

[Pastiche423]

54. And some people would not be able to fight

if marajiuana din't keep the pain at bay somewhat.

You need some reality behind that suspicion.

[neuvocat]

58. God forbid they have any children.

There's absolutely no way you will ever get ahead in this day and age if you have even one child.