CNN - US is Bombing - Major Operations - LBN THREAD #2

[VolcanoJen]

This has been a hot, and incredibly important, topic around LBN today. Since the other threads have grown so large, let's continue our discussion in this thread.

Below are the other, now-locked LBN threads on this topic; the one by janx is the one being continued with this thread, #2.

Thanks!
VolcanoJen
DU Moderator

CNN-- US is bombing Iraq now - THREAD #1 (janx)

US Forces Launch Operation in Baghdad - (UpInArms)

breaking: MSNBC...US has started dropping 2,000 lb bombs on Iraq (ElsewheresDaughter)

[deutsey]

1. What's the latest report from Iraq?

.

[DoYouEverWonder]

7. The latest from BBC News

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3265649.stm

US blasts Baghdad 'militant base'

The US military announced on Wednesday evening that it had set out to destroy a "facility" in southern Baghdad used by militants fighting coalition forces.

A First Armoured Division unit was being deployed against the "meeting, planning, storage and rendezvous point for belligerent elements", it said.

<snip>

Correspondents in Baghdad reported hearing at least two dozen explosions and heavy gunfire coming from the south of the city on Wednesday evening.

A Pentagon official quoted by the Associated Press news agency suggested the operation had been planned in advance - and was similar to recent US strikes against suspected militant targets in Tikrit.

[Maeve]

11. Of course it was planned in advance

They had to get Bremer out of there first!

[NickB79]

41. Translation of target

"meeting, planning, storage and rendezvous point for belligerent elements" = someone's house and backyard.

"Holy crap, Private, I bet those pink flamingos are really disguised landmines. Call in a bombing raid, pronto!"

[peterh]

13. Here’s an update from my system….

Ya gotta wonder if there are any more structures that are still left upright…

DJ UPDATE: US-Led Forces Launch Military Op In Baghdad


(Updates with new details, including additional military operations.)
BAGHDAD (AP)--U.S.-led coalition forces launched a military operation in
Baghdad late Wednesday, targeting a facility used by insurgents and setting off
explosions that reverberated through the Iraqi capital.
Reports from cable news outlets said Bradley fighting vehicles and AC-130
gunships were used in the attack that left the building destroyed.
"The facility is a known meeting, planning, storage and rendezvous point for
belligerent elements currently conducting attacks on coalition forces and
infrastructure," the Pentagon said in a statement from Washington, The
Associated Press reported.
"The destruction of this structure will deny enemy forces any use of it in the
future."
The 1st Armored Division operation came hours after a suicide bombing at a
headquarters for Italian forces in the southern city of Nasiriyah - the
deadliest assault on U.S. allies in Iraq since the U.S.-led occupation.
Up to a dozen detonations were heard about 9:15 p.m., apparently centered away
from the heart of the city.

Operation Iron Hammer

Television reporters in Baghdad said the attack on the warehouse was part of
Operation Iron Hammer.
Also in Baghdad Wednesday, U.S. troops came under mortar attack from a van
which had been dropping off mortar tubes at various locations, according to
cable news outlets. Apache helicopters attacked the van, killing two people
inside and wounding three others. A number of others were taken into custody,
according to the reports.
In another incident reported by Fox News, U.S. forces fired on a truck after
coming under mortar fire. The attackers apparently escaped but were believed
wounded, Fox News reported.

[HereSince1628]

21. Do minor military actions get named?

Operation Iron Hammer has sort of a Major Combat ring to it.

I suspect Operation Iron Cross and Operation Jackboot are not far behind...

[CaptainClark23]

22. um...what about the bombs?

Here we have Bradleys, and AC-130's of 1st Cav...

What happened to those bombs CNN said were falling? That reporters were hearing all over the city?

A bad rumor? I must have imagined it....

spin mongering bastards

::walks off muttering to himself::

[HereSince1628]

26. Well saying part of the truth just isn't saying the whole truth...

I suppose if the strikes had been successful they'd have reported what all those other targets were. Maybe they are waiting for to get satellite pics analyzed before admitting anymore.

[CaptainClark23]

29. Satellite pics?! Analysis?

We're on the ground already! We "control" the City. Somebody drive a Bradley around the block and take a looksee at the rubble, ask a neighbor what used to be there!

No, I think we're not going to hear another peep about any munitions that aren't fired from a ground position, or a supporting helicopter.

It doesn't spin right.

[Zhade]

45. Preemptive insanity

"The destruction of this structure will deny enemy forces any use of it in the future."

Hey, guys, ever heard of a LOCK? Or maybe some video cameras trained on the building?

Oh, how silly of me. Those are sensible ideas that don't involved blowing things up real good and making offense contractors even richer. Gotcha.

[sharonstone]

17. only innocent civvilians will get kill for sure

We have no right to be in Iraq in the first place

[Coventina]

2. But Chimpy declared

major operations had been completed?

:shrug:

[underpants]

4. Aha once again you are asuming that they said it was major operations

Which they didn't actually say they just implied it.

Not to worry ~70% of your fellow Americans fell for the Saddam-9/11 thing too..........which they will hopefully remember next November.

[w13rd0]

3. The random bombings...

...are cover to obfuscate the real bombings and mortar attacks. When a journalist points out dead and wounded, devastated buildings, and craters, Bremer can reply, "Oh, no, we did that, we meant to do that. We're just targetting hanger-ons."

[jayfish]

14. Great Minds Think Alike?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=215250&mesg_id=215431&page=

It's the perfect "filter" adjustment.

Jay

[Junkdrawer]

5. Look it's simply a retaliation for the retaliation for the...

retaliation for the retaliation for the retaliation for the retaliation for the invasion.

Remind you of anything?

[indigo11153]

Good Morning

Vietnam!

[Zhade]

44. Yes. Israeli soldiers and Palastinian militants.

So we've officially adopted Sharon's brutal approach? Swell. Just peachy fucking keen.

[Junkdrawer]

47. That's what I was thinking...

Why, doesn't the Sharon approach work? Was THAT what Einstein meant by "Insanity is doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results"?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

6. Latest Link: U.S. Forces Destroy Building in Iraq

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-3380158,00.html

NASIRIYAH, Iraq (AP) - A suicide bomber blew up a truck packed with explosives at an Italian paramilitary base Wednesday, killing at least 26 people. The United States struck at the Iraqi insurgency hours later, destroying a building in Baghdad in an assault that thundered across the capital.

The Nasiriyah attack was the deadliest against an American ally since the occupation began and appeared to send a message that international organizations are not safe anywhere in Iraq. It came on the same day the chief U.S. administrator for Iraq went to the White House to put forth proposals on transferring more authority to the Iraqis.

Col. Gianfranco Scalas said 18 Italians were killed: 12 Carabinieri paramilitary police, four soldiers, a civilian working at the base and a documentary filmmaker. A spokesman for the U.S.-led coalition said at least eight Iraqis also died. The bomber - whose nationality was not known - also died.

The blast wounded 79 people, 20 of them Italians, hospital sources and Italian officials said.

Italians were stunned by their nation's single worst military loss since World War II and its first in the Iraq campaign. At Rome's tomb of the unknown soldier, the green-white-and-red flag rippled at half-staff, and parliament held a minute of silence.

<snip>

Really not that much info on the bombing, but it is a nice "wrap-up" of recent Iraqi events.

[Barrett808]

8. New CNN report: escaping van hit by Apaches, 2 killed , 5 detained

U.S. attacks insurgents in Iraq
At least 25 killed in blast at Italian base
Wednesday, November 12, 2003 Posted: 3:29 PM EST (2029 GMT)

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- U.S. forces launched two attacks on Iraqi insurgents late Wednesday, military officials said, hours after a bombing that killed at least 25 people at the Italian military police headquarters in Nasiriya.

One attack occurred in western Baghdad and another in the southern part of the city, said Capt. David Gercken, a spokesman for the U.S. Army's 1st Armored Division.

The attack in the western part of the Iraqi capital targeted guerrillas who had launched mortar shells at U.S. troops, Gercken said.

Those insurgents were trying to escape in a van when Apache attack helicopters struck, killing two people inside, the spokesman said. Three others were wounded and five detained, he said.

In the attack in southern Baghdad, an AC-130 Spectre gunship was called in to destroy a warehouse used by Iraqi insurgents to meet and plan attacks against U.S. forces around the capital, Gercken said. He said the number of casualties was unclear.

(more)

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/11/12/sprj.irq.main/index.html

[MrPrax]

9. So I guess the Scottish observers...

turned out to be right after all about a major offensive underway...

Somebody should buy them a pint...

:toast:

Amazing what you can learn on the Internet and DU if you have an openmind...maybe the so-called journalists should try it sometime..
and donate something for the material they get...

[screembloodymurder]

39. That's right

and if we knew so did the terrorist. The internet has become a military recon system. WOW!

[Zhade]

48. Oh, wow. I forgot about that.

Which is sad, since I posted about it when it first came up on UK Indymedia!

Well, there are a lotta distractions going on...

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Ah the smell of history

REPEATING itself

1923 ALL OVER AGAIN

[bobbieinok]

16. 1923??????

explain please

[JeebusH]

19. maybe its 1933 ....

[htuttle]

24. Here

Our last occupation

Gas, chemicals, bombs: Britain has used them all before in Iraq

Jonathan Glancey
Saturday April 19, 2003
The Guardian

No one, least of all the British, should be surprised at the state of anarchy in Iraq. We have been here before. We know the territory, its long and miasmic history, the all-but-impossible diplomatic balance to be struck between the cultures and ambitions of Arabs, Kurds, Shia and Sunni, of Assyrians, Turks, Americans, French, Russians and of our own desire to keep an economic and strategic presence there.

Laid waste, a chaotic post-invasion Iraq may now well be policed by old and new imperial masters promising liberty, democracy and unwanted exiled leaders, in return for oil, trade and submission. Only the last of these promises is certain. The peoples of Iraq, even those who have cheered passing troops, have every reason to mistrust foreign invaders. They have been lied to far too often, bombed and slaughtered promiscuously.

Iraq is the product of a lying empire. The British carved it duplicitously from ancient history, thwarted Arab hopes, Ottoman loss, the dunes of Mesopotamia and the mountains of Kurdistan at the end of the first world war. Unsurprisingly, anarchy and insurrection were there from the start.

(much more...far, far too much more...)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,939608,00.html

[0007]

43. Thanks for the Guardian article, these atrocities......

are enough to make one sick. This is unbelievable.

As an American with english blood I'm ashamed.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

12. It's amazing that the "coalition" casualties are always confirmed almost

immediately while Iraqi hostiles or citizen deaths have to be discovered later through the foreign press.

[0007]

15. When ya make a fool out of yourself before the whole world....

ya just gotta do something. After all the lies have been exposed and ya can find the guy your after, ya just gotta do something.

God told junior to do this?

[Tinoire]

18. Oh God. I just saw the title of these threads

I can't look now, not from work. This is too appalling.

All those innocent people...

I just want to know each and every candidates reaction to this asap.

Wow...

We have no shame.

[Barad Simith]

20. one freeper's opinion

I was curious as to how this is being spun at Free Republic, and I found this as the first response to their latest-breaking post about the attacks on Baghdad:

1 posted on 11/12/2003 1:32 PM PST by Clive

"The destruction of this structure will deny enemy forces any use of it in the future"

Americans blow up a building to stop attacks?

In my experience, to blow up a building will not stop terrorists/insurgents. You need actually to kill the terrorists/insurgents. But hope I am wrong. Must trust commanders in battlefield.

"Must trust commanders in battlefield." I wonder is Clive is being sarcastic, or if he's just brainwashed like the rest of the freepers.

[Cocoa]

23. this AP headline says it all

U.S. Forces Destroy Building in Iraq

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=1&u=/ap/20031112/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq


Who says they don't have a plan!

[librechik]

34. PNAC Woolsey says "It's a war and we must call it that"

just now on the Wolf Hour

That makes it official--but wait, are we going to stay and win, or hand it over?

I don't get it.

Yes I do. We are SO out of there!

Woolsey is just spinning.

[ignatius]

25. I am shaking, I am so saddened and disgusted. This is all being

done in the name of America and this is not the America I know and love.

Last week Lott said maybe we shold just level the place and see what happens. Is that the way most Americans are thinking now. Just kill the ingrates who don't care they we are "liberating" them?

This is so screwed up. We need to get Bush and co out of office NOW, not in a year.

[OrAnarch]

28. apparently halliburton didn't have enough t rebuild

n/t

[nonconformist]

27. These lyrics keep going through my head

Murder by numbers, one, two, three
It's as easy to learn as your ABC's

Now you can join the ranks of the illustrious
In history's great dark hall of fame
All our greatest killers were industrious
At least the ones that we all know by name

But you can reach the top of your profession
If you become the leader of the land
For murder is the sport of the elected
And you don't need to lift a finger of your hand

[Emillereid]

33. This song has been in my head for most of the year --

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead



Bob Dylan

Copyright © 1963; renewed 1991 Special Rider Music

[Barrett808]

35. "Bomb the world" by Michael Franti and Spearhead

Bomb the world (Armageddon version)

I don't understand the whole reason why
You tellin' us all that we need to unify
Rally round the flag
And beat the drums of war
Sing the same old songs
Ya know we heard 'em all before
You tellin' me it's unpatriotic
But I call it what I see it
When I see it's idiotic
The tears of one mother
Are the same as any other
Drop food on the kids
While you're murderin' their fathers
But don't bother to show it on CNN
Brothers and sisters don't believe them
It's not a war against evil
It's really just revenge
Engaged on the poorest by the same rich men
Fight terrorists wherever they be found
But why you not bombing Tim McVeigh's hometown?
You can say what you want propaganda television
But all bombing is terrorism

(chorus)
We can chase down all our enemies
Bring them to their knees
We can bomb the world to pieces
But we can't bomb it into peace
Whoa we may even find a solution
To hunger and disease
We can bomb the world to pieces
But we can't bomb it into peace

911
Fire in the skies
Many people died
And no one even really knows why
They tellin' lies of division and fear
We yelled and cried
No one listened for years
But like, "who put us here?"
And who's responsible?
Well, there's no debatin'
Cause if they ask me I say
It's big corporations
World trade organization
Tri-lateral action
International sanctions, satan
Seems like it'll be an endless price tag
Of wars tremendous
And most disturbingly
The death toll is so horrendous
So I send this to those
Who say they defend us
Send us into harm's way
We should all make a rememberence that
This is bigger than terrorism
Blood is blood is blood and um
Love is true vision
Who will listen?
How many songs it takes for you to see
You can bomb the world to pieces
You can't bomb it into peace

(chorus)

Power to the peaceful
And I say, love to the people y'all
Power to the peaceful
And I say, love to the people y'all

http://hotburrito.100megsfree5.com/music/songs/2000/frantibomb.html

[Barrett808]

37. Disposable Heroes: "The Winter Of The Long Hot Summer"

The Winter Of The Long Hot Summer
by Disposable Heroes Of Hiphoprisy (Michael Franti)

Album : Hypocrisy Is The Greatest Luxury

It all seemed so idiotic all the accusations of unpatriotic
The fall we'll always remember, capitulating silence
election November before the winter
of the long hot summer
Somewhere in the desert
we raised the oil pressure
and waited for the weather
to get much better
for the new wind to blow in the storm
We tried to remember the history in the region
the French foreign legion, Imperialism,
Peter O'Toole and hate the Ayatollah
were all we learned in school
Not that we gave Hussein five billion
Not of our new bed partner the Syrian
and of course no mention of the Palestine situation
It was amazing how they steamrolled
They said eighty percent approval
but there was no one that I knew polled
No one had a reason for being in the Gulf
We waited for congress to speak up illegal build up
But no one would wake up
Our representatives were Milli Vanilli's
for corporate Dallas Cowboy Beverly Hillbillies
With perfect timing
the politicians rhyming their sentiments
so nicely oil gold and sand
my sediments precisely....
We regretfully support the lunacy
I'm afraid there is no time for more scrutiny
National unity preserve our community
Teflon© election opportunities
were in profundant abundance

On January second the Bush administration
announced a recession had stricken
the Nation the highest quarterly
earnings in ten years were posted
by Chevron©
Meanwhile a budget was placed in our hands
as the deadline in the sand came to an end
so much for the peace dividend
one billion a day is what we spent
and our grandchildren will pay for it 'til the end
When schools are unfunded
and kids don't get their diplomas
they get used for gun boat diplomacy
disproportionately
black or brown we see
bullet catchers for the slave master

Then the conservatives called up reservists
to active service left families nervous
but more importantly broke nine hundred a month
but the check came late, army red tape you see,
this golden opportunity
We watched the tube and read the newspaper
The propaganda of the gas masked raper
was the proper slander to whip up the hatred

The stage was lit and the lights were all faded
The pilots in night vision goggles Kuwaited and
generals masturbated
'til the fifteenth two days later they invaded
Not a single t.v. station expressed dissension or
hardly made mention to the censorship of information
from our kinder and gentler nation
blinder and mentaler retardation
DISORIENTATION
The pilots said their bombs lit Baghdad
like a Christmas tree
It was the Christian thing to do you see
they didn't mention any casualties
no distinction between the real
and the proxy
only football analogies

We saw the bomb hole
We watched the Super Bowl
We saw the scud missile
We watched Bud© commercials
We saw the yellow ribbons
Saw pilots in prison
We never saw films of the dead...at eleven
Angela Davis addressed the spectators
and shouting above a rumbling generator said
if they insist on bringing us down
then let's shut the whole country down
Marching through the downtown
A hundred thousand became participants
and we heard the drums of millions off in the distance
rushing through the cities
some of them did things that weren't so pretty
most were there for primal scream therapy
news men concentrated
on the negative liked the jingoists more
peaceful protesters ended up
on the cutting room floor
Nintendo© casualties of the ratings war
More bombs dropped than in World War II
on in both Asian invasions, new world order persuasion,
Business as usual
for our nation
Could you imagine a hundred fifty thousand dead,
the city of Stockton
coffins locked in when we clocked in...not to mention
civilians
The loss of life on both sides
pushed the limits of resilience
The scent of blood in our nostrils
fuel of the fossil land of apostle
The blackness that covered the sky was not the only thing
that brought a tear to the eye or
the taste of anger to the tongues
of those too young to remember Vietnam

Is heroin better in a veteran's mind
than the memory of the dying laying in a line
Is it the smell or the shadows heaving and weeping
that keeps the soldier from sleeping
as he sings the orphan's lullaby
When the soldiers put down their bayonets
the strings are chained to the marionettes
Emir of Kuwait gets back in his jet
we replace the dead with new cadets
will we hate those who did the shelling
or will we hate those who weren't willing to do the killing
when the leaders of the bald eagles come home to roost
will we sing a song of praise and indebtedness
for our deliverance from evil
or will we sing a song of sadness
for the dreaded debt this mess delivered us PEOPLE.

http://www.letssingit.com/?http://www.letssingit.com/disposable-heroes-of-hiphoprisy-tdfhb.html

[omshanti]

30. U.S. Revises Strategy In Iraq, (General Richard) Myers Says

WASHINGTON -- American forces are revising their strategy in Iraq in the wake of a surge in insurgent attacks on U.S. forces, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said Tuesday.

Gen. Richard Myers said warplanes, bombs, and aerial assaults are now a part of that plan.

Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the commander of American forces in Iraq, said that although attacks against his troops have increased, the insurgents know "that from a military point of view, they can't defeat us."

Sanchez defended the use of aerial bombing in Tikrit and Fallujah over the past five days , saying it was necessary to defeat those attacking coalition forces.

http://www.wral.com/news/2628322/detail.html

The past FIVE days?? I wonder how many innocents have been killed?

[xchrom]

31. evil building, bad building!

whatever! i'm sure the ''insurgents'' couldn't see that coming.
and what about innocent neighbors? well ''acceptable losses'' or some such stupid phrase will be made to fit. kind of the way a car fits a rider after a devastating wreck.

[nomaco-10]

32. Now don't worry......

CNN just announced they're using "precision" bombs, you know kids, the kind that only kill the really, really bad guys, no women and children will be harmed.
busco is coming apart at the seams and it can't be soon enough for the survival of this country and the poor Iraqi civilians that have had to endure his tyrannical regime.

[ConcernedCanuk]

36. Feckadee - a NEW word to justify killing Iraqis - "INSURGENTS"

. . Trust the BFEE to "de-personalize" killing innocent Iraqis, either standing by ( that's "Collateral Damage" - so that's ok),

or DEFENDING their own sovereign Nation from the INVADERS

AND WELL, HECK, once you blow a building up and kill everyone, who's to say they were "innocents" or not ?

And, well, we know how "smart" the smart bombs are,

'bout as smart as the Commander in Cheif

oh yah, killing ur own is called "friendly fire" - not "f_cking up"

I cannot be more totally disgusted with this American Invasion,

but I fear it's gonna get worse - LOTS worse

(sigh)

[eek]

38. I've had NPR on all day

and I have not heard them talk of any of this stuff yet.

They are so lame.

[Ripley]

42. Huh? I've been listening to NPR and I heard about Iron Hammer.

They just recycle the same story at the top of the newshour. I think they just called the mission Iron Hammer. Or did I just imagine that?

Where's that Baghdad CSPAN show...I'd like to see for myself what is happening there with live cameras.

[PurityOfEssence]

40. And the Stock Market goes on a bender

Isn't it despicable that when we go on a big killing spree, the market just takes off? It's just like the beginning of the war.

[TacticalPeek]

46. Despair is not a plan.

"War's not going very well, you know. We are two down, and the ball's in the enemy court. War is a psychological thing, Perkins, rather like a game of football. You know how in a game of football ten men often play better than eleven - ?"

"Yes, sir."

"Perkins, we are asking you to be that one man. I want you to lay down your life, Perkins. We need a futile gesture at this stage. It will raise the whole tone of the war."

Beyond the Fringe
(Alan Bennett, Peter Cook, Jonathan Miller, Dudley Moore)