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ECH1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 03:28 PM
Original message
Iran flexes military muscle amid nuclear standoff
Iran's hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Monday "the Iranian nation and government are determined to use their rights to nuclear technology", the official IRNA news agency reported.

Maneuvers, which Iran says were planned long before, coincides with a critical phase in the dispute over its nuclear ambitions, which the United States alleges is cover for a weapons program.

Tehran denies the charges and officials said the success of the war games showed that the Islamic republic would never back down in the atomic standoff. "After weeks of psychological warfare (over the nuclear issue), they (the West) expected that we back down and give up our rights," the head of Iran's Islamist militia, the Basij, General Mohammad Hejazi said on state television.

Thousands of Iranian troops are conducting the war games, which involve the Revolutionary Guards Corps navy and air force, Iran's regular army and navy, the volunteer Basij militia, and the Iranian police.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060403/wl_afp/irannuclearpolitics_060403180818

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Skink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. That is pretty cool. An underwater missile that goes really fast.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. "Nuclear standoff"?? Doesn't that imply that both sides have nukes?....
...Iran has zero nukes.

Here we go again with the media propaganda routine.
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. We should keep it that way too. Too bad were bogged down in Iraq.
The Bush(it) attacked an unarmed country using shitty intelligence and now we are held hostage by a country that is dangerous. He should be impeached for treason or for incompetence, but he cannot argue out of both.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Orwell would have been proud of that doublespeak! It is a standoff
about Iran's PEACEFUL DEVELOPMENT of nuclear energy!
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. You can hear the war drums drumming...
Edited on Mon Apr-03-06 04:39 PM by lovuian
Iran is not going to be the pushover Iraq was...and nobody is going to help us in this... thats what ticks me off...so they have ditsoid Bush do it...
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peter_the_great Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Hoot torpedo
Yes it's cool stuff man. Reminds me of the cold war. My missile is bigger than your missile.

If this new torpedo can be quickly deployed Iran could use it to take out a couple of billion dollar US attack subs in a potential war.

Test 1 = Kosar missile (Shahab-6) or (IRSL-X-4)

Test 2 = Hoot torpedo

Iran shoots for naval supremacy, Toronto Sun

"TEHRAN -- Iran conducted its second major test of a new armament within days yesterday, firing a high-speed torpedo that it boasted no submarine or warship can evade.

The tests came during war games that Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards have been holding in the Persian Gulf and the Arabian Sea since Friday.

On the first day of the manoeuvres, Iran said it successfully tested the Fajr-3 missile, which it said can avoid radar and hit several targets simultaneously using multiple warheads.

The new torpedo, called the "Hoot," or "whale," could raise concerns over Iran's power in the Gulf, a vital corridor for the world's oil supplies and where the U.S. Navy's 5th Fleet is based.
Iran's state television halted its normal programming to break news of the torpedo test, showing it being launched from a ship into the Gulf waters, then hitting its target, a derelict ship.

Navy Gen. Ali Fadavi said the ships that fire the Iranian-made Hoot had radar-evading technology and that the torpedo -- moving at 358 km/h -- was too fast to elude.

"It has a very powerful warhead designed to hit big submarines. Even if enemy warship sensors identify the missile, no warship can escape from this missile because of its high speed," Fadavi told state television.
Cmdr. Jeff Breslau, spokesman for the U.S. 5th Fleet, said no special measures were taken in reaction to the Iranian war games, even after the latest missile test."
http://torontosun.com/News/World/2006/04/03/1517460-sun.html


"Iran last Friday test fired what it claims is the world's fastest underwater missile - reported to have a top speed of 360km/h (233mph), according to the BBC.
Special Republican guard troops fired the weapon - dubbed "Hoot" or Whale - and successfully destroyed a derelict ship in the Gulf as part of Iran's "Holy Prophet" war games. Iranian TV interrupted normal broadcasts to show footage of the test.

This latest bit of sabre-rattling, certain to irritate the US whose 5th Fleet operates in the area, comes hot on the heels of a test last week of a multi-warhead conventional missile.
Regarding the Hoot, the deputy head of the Republican Guard, Gen Ali Fadavi, told AP: "It has a very powerful warhead designed to hit big submarines. Even if enemy warship sensors identify the missile, no warship can escape from this missile because of its high speed." "
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04/03/iran_missile_test/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/31/AR2006033100614.html

Shahab-6
IRSL-X-4
"The Shahab-6 is expected to have a range of 5,470-5,500 and 5,632-6,200 kilometers with a 1,000-750-500 kilogram warhead. This range capability will depend on the number of stages used in the launch vehicle and their performance. December 1996 news reports claimed that Iran is developing a 3,500-mile (5,632 kilometers) range missile called Shahab-6 that would be capable of reaching Europe. The technology for this system was cited as coming from Russia and North Korea. Reportedly the missile would become operational by the year 2,000, though others reports claim that Iran intends to complete the development of this system within five to ten years. Presumably this missile will turn out to be a totally redesigned Taep'o-dong-2/NKSL-X-2 Iranian first stage derivation with new redesigned shorter larger diameter second and third stages.
Quoting from the Oct. 1, 1998, The Washington Times, "Israeli, Prime Minister Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu said, "Iran is developing the Shahab-4 which can reach well into Europe, and the Shahab-5 and 6, which (will have the capacity) to reach the Eastern Sea board (of the United States)". The article went on to quote from the Blue-ribbon Congressional Commission --- headed by then former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
"In addition to this Scud-based long-range ballistic missile program, Iran has acquired and is seeking major, advanced missile components that can be combined to produce ballistic missiles with sufficient range to strike the United States, "----." (1)
The following information was provided from the July 16, 1999, The Washington Times article. Iran's Kosar launch vehicle was suggested to be the Iranian variant of the North Korea's Taep'o-dong-2 booster. The new missile was said to be undergoing design development with assistance from Russian aerospace technicians and state-run entities. It was suggested that it could be powered with a version of Russia's storable liquid propellant RD-216 closed cycle two engine cluster in its booster first stage. The RD-216 is an Energomash engine originally used on the Skean/SS-5/R-14, IRBM, Saddler/SS-7/R-16, ICBM and Sasin/R-26 ICBM missiles developed during the cold war. It is still used on the C-1, Kosmos/SL-8 Russian space booster. This does suggest fairly strongly that Iran has acquired through elicit means the designs of both the SS-4, RD-214 and the SS-5, RD-216 storable liquid propellant rocket engines and the SS-4 missile body production technology. This is questionable but gives some insight into the Taep'o-dong-2 first stage design. It was based on new information suggesting there had been another rocket engine technology transfer from a Russian rocket engine entity Energomash. (2) No further clarifying information on this has since surfaced."

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iran/missile/shahab-6.htm
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. That is pretty funny
How will they launch these new torpedoes of death? Considering they have a grand total of 3 soviet subs. Which make more noise than a clothes dryer full of rocks. I wonder why the russians never developed this weapon. They prototyped it. I wonder what the turning radius is. Considering a caveatting torpedo makes massive amounts of noise it could be detected from hundreds of miles out.

The three ancient soviet subs? I am sure that they are an effective countermeasure to modern los angeles and seawolf fast attack boats. Pretty sure the lack of ability to control their airspace is pretty much a defining issue for them.

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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. It can be launched from a patrol boat...or even a dhow
Russia has openly offered the Shkval for sale at international arms shows in recent years. Though few in the West have witnessed the Russian Shkval missile in action, several expert sources have seen a marketing video distributed to potential buyers. As one described the scene: "First of all, you only see the Shkval from the rear; you don't get to view the front of the torpedo where all the interesting stuff is--the cavitator, the ventilation ports, and so forth. The scene opens with the Shkval being launched off a patrol boat . After it drops below the surface there's an extended pause, when without warning, there's a bright flash in the water and you sense some commotion underneath the waves. After a short time, a triangular trail of bubbles starts to appear at the surface and moves off into the distance at a good pace. Meanwhile, not much else happens until all of a sudden, you see a little explosion way off on the horizon, followed by the delayed report. It's pretty amazing to see how far the thing has gone in such a short time."

http://diodon349.com/Kursk-Memorial/storm_over_the_squall.htm
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peter_the_great Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. All they need is a torpedo tube
"How will they launch these new torpedoes of death? Considering they have a grand total of 3 soviet subs. Which make more noise than a clothes dryer full of rocks. I wonder why the Russians never developed this weapon. They prototype it. I wonder what the turning radius is. Considering a caveatting torpedo makes massive amounts of noise it could be detected from hundreds of miles out.

The three ancient soviet subs? I am sure that they are an effective countermeasure to modern Los Angeles and Seawolf fast attack boats. Pretty sure the lack of ability to control their airspace is pretty much a defining issue for them."

All they need is a torpedo tube. In WW2 America used PT boats build out of plywood. Any patrol boat or a helicopter or plane could launch one.

The Virginia class is the current US attack sub with one finished and one undergoing sea trials this spring The SSN-777 New Hampshire is the second boat in the class and is scheduled for commissioning in 2007.

Only three Seawolf class boats were built and one was modified for covert operations. So basically we have three or four modern attack boats and a bunch of older LA class boats. Sure the Russian Kilos are noisy if they are moving fast but if they lurk in coastal waters they can be hard to detect. If they fire first they will probably sink whatever boat is in front of them. Of course with 4 Mk-48 ADCAP torpedoes coming back at them they would be dead to.

Seawolf class:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/ssn-21.htm

"July 8, 2005: Russia will upgrade Iran’s three Kilo class subs, so that they can fire cruise missiles (launched from one of the six torpedo tubes of the Kilos), and be generally more capable. Iran got these subs from Russia between 1992-94. The missile in question is the SS-NX-27 "Club-S," which is based on the older SS-N-21 cruise missile. The Club-S actually comes in three versions, one for attacking ships, another for land targets and another, with a homing torpedo, for going after submarines. All versions weigh about a ton and are about the same size as a 21 inch (533mm) torpedo. The anti-ship and land attack versions have a range of 220 and 300 kilometers respectively. The anti-sub version has a range of 50 kilometers. In addition to wiring the Iranian Kilos for the new missiles, there will be other upgrades and additions to equipment."
http://www.strategypage.com/fyeo/howtomakewar/default.asp?target=HTSUB.HTM

http://aoreport.com/2006/Features/March/2006_03_features_IranWarPreps.htm

Kilo class sub:
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/kilo877/

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VTMechEngr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. SSN-775 Texas is the second boat in the Class
Virginia is the SSN-774, Hawaii is the SSN-776.
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-04-06 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. And why not install that tube on one of Iran's invisible flying boats?
After all, in a brown sea navy, submarines are passe at best.

<snip>

"It is clear that Iran is demonstrating its muscle in order to forestall any discussions of a possible operation using force against Iran," Konstantin Kosachev, the head of the parliamentary foreign affairs committee, was quoted as saying according to the RIA Novosti news agency.

On Tuesday, state-run television also said the elite Revolutionary Guards had tested what it called a "super-modern flying boat" capable of evading radar. TV showed a brief clip of the boat's launch.

"Due to its advanced design, no radar at sea or in the air can detect it. It can lift out of the water," the television said. It said the boat was "all Iranian-made and can launch missiles with precise targeting while moving."

The television showed the boat, looking like an aircraft, taking off from the sea and flying low over the surface of the water. It said the craft can fly with a speed of 100 nautical miles per hour.

Iran said the torpedo tests were conducted Sunday and Monday. The torpedo — called a "Hoot," or "whale" — is able to move at 223 mph, too fast for any enemy ship to elude.

<more>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060404/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_missile
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PsychoDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. I would Imagine the gulf would be a pretty noisy place....
With all the shipping, commercial, private and military. Would this not affect the ability of the US to detect and identify these subs?

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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Hi peter_the_great!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-05-06 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
12. ok, FIRST of all...
there is NO 'nuclear standoff' except in the minds of neocon oil-greedy warhawks. it would seem bushco. really has not the slightest clue of what sort of pandora's box they are going to open by striking iran. during the gulf war saddam fired around 85 scud missiles against a variety of targets with disputed success. iran has far more accurate missiles in greater numbers to use against us bases in iraq and elsewhere in the region, and more importantly can strike US naval forces in the persian and oman gulfs. this is gonna be a horribly ugly affair.
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